Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
He'd charge both. This is the downside of the character needing to be within 3" of the dread. Perfect gap for Shrike to fit in. Even if he can only make it to the dread with his charge he can still pile into the relic guy and blend him.

Then you send in something random like an infiltrator squad to surround the leviathan and keep Shrike in combat. Also, it's a really good idea to have first turn so these guys are all still alive by this point.

As tricky as this is to achieve, it's even worse if the IH player brought repulsors and redemptors instead of leviathans. Now, the leviathans just annoyingly float away and - even more annoyingly - shoot you approximately a bajillion times.

This is why double exectuiner levi is going to be all the jazz...You possition the executioners in such a way that you can't charge the levi solo. So -2 to charge comes into play and you pretty much have to charge at the back of the levi cause you can't be placed anywhere...Good luck with that charge dude. You gonna have to kill the executioners first...which is doable but they don't degrade easy and can't just be tied up to shut them down. This is also only doable with ignore overwatch which only a few units have access to.

For more SNG you can even include a chapter master for like 78 points and even more melle protection for your levi. Doubles the effectiveness of all your overwatch instead of reroll 1's. Plus if they have -1's to hits you basically ignore them. Probably still mandatory vs eldar anyways.

Oh BTW...still 30ish 6+ FNP intercessors in front of them too.

Put the chapter master in phobos and give him the vox epherium (or whatever TF its named) and nobody is dropping in or sneaking into within 15.1" either, coupled with the repulsers -2 charge to make up for him being behind the tanks and nobody is every making contact with that castle in a worthwhile way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Instead of spending 2CPs on making a leviathan a character and a student of history so it can consolidate out of combat (unless wrapped) you could just take a repulsor and leave Feirros with the trait. That's what I'd do.

Third game with IH leviathan and third win. So far, still havent used student of history once. Enemy units either died to overwatch and melee attacks, or refused to charge, because they were scared when i told them about the overwatch on 4+ stratagem

Fair enough. I’ve never said that leviathans are bad - just that I think other units benefit even more from the IH rules than they do.

Charging an IH leviathan is going to be awful for anything that can’t avoid overwatch. But the same applies to a repulsor executioner - as well as 2” off your charge distance and the fact it can just fly away again.

Basig point is that, while an immortal IH leviathan is a monstrous thing, it’s actually not the worst that IH can do.

A practically immortal unit that only costs 303 points and puts out 20 ap-3 autocannon shots a turn hitting on 2's reroll 1's without even a buff hq? Basically it is superior of 3 autocannons havoc teams in terms of damage and it reaslically can't be destroyed with healing 6 HP a turn. It's not balanced to have the ability to take -2 or more damage off every shot. -1 damage relic should not exist.

That relic would be insanely powerful even as one use only

Yep - would still be auto include. Also in a meta sense - the only thing that will keep IH Levi from dominating the scene is the presense of ironstone. All its weapons are flat 2 damage...we might even start seeing grav flux bombard instead....

I thought about that, but honestly in a mirror your probably leaning on the executioners and first turn for board control. Everyone else just hopes the two IH players slap fight into a draw and drop in the rankings

I dont think youre going to see a ton of Iron Hands at the higher boards. For a couple of reasons.

1/ no movement shenanigans. How exactly is Iron Hands dealing with Tau? Are you just sitting back and trading gun for gun against them? IH are really tough but theyre also pretty slow, if you go for units that benefit from their CT the most.

2/ Ironstine etc is very powerful but only if they stay together. SO you're Balling up everything and moving out, there are so many armies that can get +2,3,4 to their charge rolls, or have an ignore overwatch relic/WT.

3/ Few High Powered units. Iron Hands are going to have a hard time rooting out MSU infantry armies that can hide. Why fight when you can hide and sit on objs? How many whirlwinds are they really going to take?

4/ Ravenguard. The Anti Iron Hands. If raven guard get the first turn they can effectively kill whatever is screening via one warlord trait and one Stratagem. Vanguard vets and 6 aggressors will clear all of that. The snipers will snipe the character with the Iron Stone and now youre just vehicles.

5/ CA2019 is coming, if the Levi Dread is doing really well, expect it to go up by 30-50 points.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Put the chapter master in phobos and give him the vox epherium (or whatever TF its named) and nobody is dropping in or sneaking into within 15.1" either, coupled with the repulsers -2 charge to make up for him being behind the tanks and nobody is every making contact with that castle in a worthwhile way.

That isnt going to work.

Space Marine FAQ wrote:
Page 185 – The Vox Espiritum
Change the second sentence to read:‘If a model has this Relic, add 3" to the range characteristic of its aura abilities (e.g. Rites of Battle) to a maximum of 9".

ItsPug wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Put the chapter master in phobos and give him the vox epherium (or whatever TF its named) and nobody is dropping in or sneaking into within 15.1" either, coupled with the repulsers -2 charge to make up for him being behind the tanks and nobody is every making contact with that castle in a worthwhile way.

That isnt going to work.

Space Marine FAQ wrote:
Page 185 – The Vox Espiritum
Change the second sentence to read:‘If a model has this Relic, add 3" to the range characteristic of its aura abilities (e.g. Rites of Battle) to a maximum of 9".

Well sure that came out just now though But good to know though, but honestly it still does work, just not perfectly.

Ice_can wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
This isn't even going to be the worst problem build anyway, which is nuts. The impulser is sitting there laughing at all the attention it's ducking. Running about 4 of those minimum with intersessors arming sarge with a thunder hammer is going to be really tough for most armies to handle and is incredibly cheap for what they can handle. Everyone is talking about screens with infantry, Jesus am I the only guy worried about 14" moving, fly, 4++ screens that have -2 to charges lol?

I am impatiently waitimg for the Impulsor kit to drop so I can buy 4 of them for my Sons of Medusa. First turn: orbital bombardment strat + Impulsor Orbital bombardment. Second - forth turns: 1 orbital bombardment each turn. Might even run that without units to carry in them(no non-jump/gravis primaris).

This is what is so annoying about this place everyone is so convinced that they know the game best and unit's need nerfed when the fact that so many broken lists can be built with 1 subfaction says it's the subfaction that needs rebalanced badly not the units.

Except the broken gimmick here is completely independent of my army being an IH successor. The exact same thing can be done with Ultras, sallies, or raven guard and their successors with 0 change in tactic(hide the impulsors from LOS and have them call in bombardments)

The "problem" with this is points cost. 93ppm. And knowing abuse of the option GW gave us. They also didn't give us much choice or think any of it through. The skytalon array is a joke(and why bother with the different name from the executioner's Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubbers?). Missile array is at least half decent in all roles(and one of the options I will leave open). And only the Shield Dome actually helps the Impulsor in its role of moving small units around.

We asked for a Primaris Rhino-equivalent, we got a Razorback with bad guns that cannot carry the units we really want to get close.

demontalons wrote:
I dont think youre going to see a ton of Iron Hands at the higher boards. For a couple of reasons.

1/ no movement shenanigans. How exactly is Iron Hands dealing with Tau? Are you just sitting back and trading gun for gun against them? IH are really tough but theyre also pretty slow, if you go for units that benefit from their CT the most.

2/ Ironstine etc is very powerful but only if they stay together. SO you're Balling up everything and moving out, there are so many armies that can get +2,3,4 to their charge rolls, or have an ignore overwatch relic/WT.

3/ Few High Powered units. Iron Hands are going to have a hard time rooting out MSU infantry armies that can hide. Why fight when you can hide and sit on objs? How many whirlwinds are they really going to take?

4/ Ravenguard. The Anti Iron Hands. If raven guard get the first turn they can effectively kill whatever is screening via one warlord trait and one Stratagem. Vanguard vets and 6 aggressors will clear all of that. The snipers will snipe the character with the Iron Stone and now youre just vehicles.

5/ CA2019 is coming, if the Levi Dread is doing really well, expect it to go up by 30-50 points.

That's way too early to say. Iron hands also have the best attack bikes, land speeders and fliers.

Those raven guard gimmicks BTW also instantly fall flat verse other marine armies infiltrators/phobos captains. It's also funny your bring up snipers because they benefit from their super doctrine a full turn before raven guard. Moving and ignoring penalty scout snipers with innate reroll 1's and -1 ap on turn 1 is something even raven guard should be a bit jealous of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
This isn't even going to be the worst problem build anyway, which is nuts. The impulser is sitting there laughing at all the attention it's ducking. Running about 4 of those minimum with intersessors arming sarge with a thunder hammer is going to be really tough for most armies to handle and is incredibly cheap for what they can handle. Everyone is talking about screens with infantry, Jesus am I the only guy worried about 14" moving, fly, 4++ screens that have -2 to charges lol?

I am impatiently waitimg for the Impulsor kit to drop so I can buy 4 of them for my Sons of Medusa. First turn: orbital bombardment strat + Impulsor Orbital bombardment. Second - forth turns: 1 orbital bombardment each turn. Might even run that without units to carry in them(no non-jump/gravis primaris).

This is what is so annoying about this place everyone is so convinced that they know the game best and unit's need nerfed when the fact that so many broken lists can be built with 1 subfaction says it's the subfaction that needs rebalanced badly not the units.

Except the broken gimmick here is completely independent of my army being an IH successor. The exact same thing can be done with Ultras, sallies, or raven guard and their successors with 0 change in tactic(hide the impulsors from LOS and have them call in bombardments)

The "problem" with this is points cost. 93ppm. And knowing abuse of the option GW gave us. They also didn't give us much choice or think any of it through. The skytalon array is a joke(and why bother with the different name from the executioner's Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubbers?). Missile array is at least half decent in all roles(and one of the options I will leave open). And only the Shield Dome actually helps the Impulsor in its role of moving small units around.

We asked for a Primaris Rhino-equivalent, we got a Razorback with bad guns that cannot carry the units we really want to get close.

I actually rate the invuln WAY above the bombardment. I have been play testing them both and the invuln always makes them better, and all game. The mortal wounds is very gimicky and nothing stops the other guy from shooting the ones that haven't spent theirs yet. I also wouldn't scoff at the tranport ability. Moving 14" + advancing then dtopping out with your back base edge within 3" and moving yourself is a stupid range band. Auto hitting auto bolters, hell blasters, many things get mileage from that and if your a white scar you can charge the tank in and out ever turn after all that movement.

I read through Daemontalon's post after posting my last response. There is some disconnect there.

1) There are many faster units with heavy weapons... Along with taking more melee-capable units that are faster moving. The super doctrine and CTs just mean that everything with a heavy weapon is more mobile, and mobile units(well, all units) are more durable.

2) Not completely true. Mostly meta netlists are saying "castle up in a bubble". You want your weapons in range, for some models that means moving forward quite a bit. You know what happens to a repulsor executioner that only moves 5" per turn and a competent opponent only putting big models anywhere within 24" of it? It wastes all of those points on close range gunsand gets focus-fired off the board early.

3) What? They have the same access to every unit that any other Codex chapter has. Eliminators can now move and fire executioner rounds with a 1+ to hit(or 2+ vs Altioc etc). Thunderfires exist. Everything else can just move around the intervening terain and fire as if they hadn't moved(see above). Or are you talking only about the Netlist castle again?

4) Ok, you are definitely thinking no list other than the netlist castle can exist.

5) I really wouldn't mind that. Sorry Levi-defenders, I really don't think any 10-shot Str-7 D-2 weapon should exist. Especially not for only 6 points more than a Twin Asscann/gun.

Edit: just double-checked the old dex cost on twin asscann; stormcannon arrays were proced 15 ppg more from the old dex. So we can certainly expect the Levi to go up in price. Probably close to 60/gun.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
I really wouldn't mind that. Sorry Levi-defenders, I really don't think any 10-shot Str-7 D-2 weapon should exist. Especially not for only 6 points more than a Twin Asscann/gun.

If you really feel the need to nerf a unit just because atleast nerf the weapon your complaining about and not the base unit as it's noy like a melta or grav flux seige drill or CCW are currently under appropriately costed either.

Also you compairing them to twin assualt cannons, go compair them to punisher gattling cannons from IG.

You replied during my edit, so the first part is exactly what I was saying.

Punisher gatling cost is mostly baked in. But it is an example of a gun on a platform that is edging into the OP levels(mostly from grinding advance).

20 shots, 50% hit. 10 hits, 33.33% wound vehicles, no AP so only 33.33% of those do 1 damage each.

 Red Corsair wrote:

ItsPug wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Put the chapter master in phobos and give him the vox epherium (or whatever TF its named) and nobody is dropping in or sneaking into within 15.1" either, coupled with the repulsers -2 charge to make up for him being behind the tanks and nobody is every making contact with that castle in a worthwhile way.

That isnt going to work.

Space Marine FAQ wrote:
Page 185 – The Vox Espiritum
Change the second sentence to read:‘If a model has this Relic, add 3" to the range characteristic of its aura abilities (e.g. Rites of Battle) to a maximum of 9".

Well sure that came out just now though But good to know though, but honestly it still does work, just not perfectly.

It’s actually from the first version of the FAQ released on the 2nd of September.

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's also funny your bring up snipers because they benefit from their super doctrine a full turn before raven guard. Moving and ignoring penalty scout snipers with innate reroll 1's and -1 ap on turn 1 is something even raven guard should be a bit jealous of.

Not sure what you mean that IH benefit a full turn before raven guard?

Sniper rifles are Heavy 1, so all marine armies get -1 AP on sniper rifles in turn 1.

RG don’t get move & shoot or innate reroll 1s with sniper rifles, but they do get their +1hit/+1wound super doctrine on turn 1.

Tactical doctrine doesn’t add anything to Raven Guard sniper rifles. Actually makes them less effective on AP.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's also funny your bring up snipers because they benefit from their super doctrine a full turn before raven guard. Moving and ignoring penalty scout snipers with innate reroll 1's and -1 ap on turn 1 is something even raven guard should be a bit jealous of.

Not sure what you mean that IH benefit a full turn before raven guard?

Sniper rifles are Heavy 1, so all marine armies get -1 AP on sniper rifles in turn 1.

RG don’t get move & shoot or innate reroll 1s with sniper rifles, but they do get their +1hit/+1wound super doctrine on turn 1.

Tactical doctrine doesn’t add anything to Raven Guard sniper rifles. Actually makes them less effective on AP.

Pretty sure Raven Guard only get +1 to hit and wound in tactical doctrine

Raven Guard do not get their +1 hit/wound on turn 1. They get it while the Tactical Doctrine is in effect.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
I read through Daemontalon's post after posting my last response. There is some disconnect there.

1) There are many faster units with heavy weapons... Along with taking more melee-capable units that are faster moving. The super doctrine and CTs just mean that everything with a heavy weapon is more mobile, and mobile units(well, all units) are more durable.

2) Not completely true. Mostly meta netlists are saying "castle up in a bubble". You want your weapons in range, for some models that means moving forward quite a bit. You know what happens to a repulsor executioner that only moves 5" per turn and a competent opponent only putting big models anywhere within 24" of it? It wastes all of those points on close range gunsand gets focus-fired off the board early.

3) What? They have the same access to every unit that any other Codex chapter has. Eliminators can now move and fire executioner rounds with a 1+ to hit(or 2+ vs Altioc etc). Thunderfires exist. Everything else can just move around the intervening terain and fire as if they hadn't moved(see above). Or are you talking only about the Netlist castle again?

4) Ok, you are definitely thinking no list other than the netlist castle can exist.

5) I really wouldn't mind that. Sorry Levi-defenders, I really don't think any 10-shot Str-7 D-2 weapon should exist. Especially not for only 6 points more than a Twin Asscann/gun.

Edit: just double-checked the old dex cost on twin asscann; stormcannon arrays were proced 15 ppg more from the old dex. So we can certainly expect the Levi to go up in price. Probably close to 60/gun.

It's a 300 point unit. Think about 3 Assault Cannon Razorbacks.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

5) I really wouldn't mind that. Sorry Levi-defenders, I really don't think any 10-shot Str-7 D-2 weapon should exist. Especially not for only 6 points more than a Twin Asscann/gun.

Edit: just double-checked the old dex cost on twin asscann; stormcannon arrays were proced 15 ppg more from the old dex. So we can certainly expect the Levi to go up in price. Probably close to 60/gun.

That's not really a fair comparison, though. The Twin Ass Cannon is a weapon with many possible platforms and is costed accordingly. The Stormcannon Array is, as far as I am aware, only available on one model, and is costed accordingly - The only thing its cost has to be balanced against is the other weapons on the Leviathan. (In the same way that guns like the Demolisher Cannon are not costed objectively, but rather have their cost based on the fact that it'll always be taken on a specific platform.)

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
You replied during my edit, so the first part is exactly what I was saying.

Punisher gatling cost is mostly baked in. But it is an example of a gun on a platform that is edging into the OP levels(mostly from grinding advance).

20 shots, 50% hit. 10 hits, 33.33% wound vehicles, no AP so only 33.33% of those do 1 damage each.

It's not 20 shots it's 40 it's also 20 points or 30 points less than 1 storm cannon array.

Take the Twin Autocannons
8 shots 48 inches double the range same Strength and damage, 1 less AP. It's 17 points and never taken.

A battle cannon is 22 points has 48 inches of additional range 2d6 shots +1Strength Same AP and d3 Damage avarages 2 damage

Even saying a commander is a over performing unit it's weapons still look bonkers next to leviathan weapons costs heck anyone ever seen a grav flux a claw or a melta lance?

That still put 2/3 the damage on a knight?

That is exactly why I am comparing the asscann: 12 d1 s6 shots vs 10 d2 s7 shots.

You should have to pay much more for the higher s(16.666% increase in wounding hits) and double damage.

There also shouldn't be any D2 or higher weapons with more than 5 stable shots. D6/2d6? Yeah that is fine due to potential for 1 or 2 shots. Multiple shots with d3/d6 damage? Also fine because luck and law of averages. 10 s7(50% wounds vs most vehicles) D2 wounds is just too much.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That still put 2/3 the damage on a knight?

That is exactly why I am comparing the asscann: 12 d1 s6 shots vs 10 d2 s7 shots.

You should have to pay much more for the higher s(16.666% increase in wounding hits) and double damage.

There also shouldn't be any D2 or higher weapons with more than 5 stable shots. D6/2d6? Yeah that is fine due to potential for 1 or 2 shots. Multiple shots with d3/d6 damage? Also fine because luck and law of averages. 10 s7(50% wounds vs most vehicles) D2 wounds is just too much.

Again, you're not fairly comparing cost. Stormcannons are costed subjectively for the platform they're on.
Also, why shouldn't there be a lot of shots on one gun, if the gun is expensive enough? It's a 300+ point model with only two main guns. Putting an arbitrary number on how many shots you think is "OK" is completely ridiculous. Would you be fine if it had four five-shot guns instead of two ten-shot guns?

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That still put 2/3 the damage on a knight?

That is exactly why I am comparing the asscann: 12 d1 s6 shots vs 10 d2 s7 shots.

You should have to pay much more for the higher s(16.666% increase in wounding hits) and double damage.

There also shouldn't be any D2 or higher weapons with more than 5 stable shots. D6/2d6? Yeah that is fine due to potential for 1 or 2 shots. Multiple shots with d3/d6 damage? Also fine because luck and law of averages. 10 s7(50% wounds vs most vehicles) D2 wounds is just too much.

And for the price of a Levi I can get 3 asscanbacks, which is 36 S6 D1 and the number of Storm Bolter shots (depending if you buy 1 or 2).

Asscannons were 15 points less expensive than the stormcannon array.

They are now only 6 points cheaper.


As far as the arbitrary number that I think is "ok": look at every weapon in every army, non-forgeworld.

The closest you get are titanic unit weapons. Even the stompa's supagatla is 3d6 shots D1. The closest you get is the Vulcan Megabolter(at only S6), on a base 428 point, no invulnerable save unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That still put 2/3 the damage on a knight?

That is exactly why I am comparing the asscann: 12 d1 s6 shots vs 10 d2 s7 shots.

You should have to pay much more for the higher s(16.666% increase in wounding hits) and double damage.

There also shouldn't be any D2 or higher weapons with more than 5 stable shots. D6/2d6? Yeah that is fine due to potential for 1 or 2 shots. Multiple shots with d3/d6 damage? Also fine because luck and law of averages. 10 s7(50% wounds vs most vehicles) D2 wounds is just too much.

And for the price of a Levi I can get 3 asscanbacks, which is 36 S6 D1 and the number of Storm Bolter shots (depending if you buy 1 or 2).

Which are 36 D1 shots. Which is potentially more: 40 or 36? But that is assuming best possible outcome.

Vs T7 the asscann backs are hitting 24, wounding 8. The stormcannon array is hitting 13.333 wounding 6.66 for 12.66 damage.

And the more commonly seen T8, it drops to 8.22 damage. Barely any better.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Asscannons were 15 points less expensive than the stormcannon array.

They are now only 6 points cheaper.


As far as the arbitrary number that I think is "ok": look at every weapon in every army, non-forgeworld.

The closest you get are titanic unit weapons. Even the stompa's supagatla is 3d6 shots D1. The closest you get is the Vulcan Megabolter(at only S6), on a base 428 point, no invulnerable save unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
That still put 2/3 the damage on a knight?

That is exactly why I am comparing the asscann: 12 d1 s6 shots vs 10 d2 s7 shots.

You should have to pay much more for the higher s(16.666% increase in wounding hits) and double damage.

There also shouldn't be any D2 or higher weapons with more than 5 stable shots. D6/2d6? Yeah that is fine due to potential for 1 or 2 shots. Multiple shots with d3/d6 damage? Also fine because luck and law of averages. 10 s7(50% wounds vs most vehicles) D2 wounds is just too much.

And for the price of a Levi I can get 3 asscanbacks, which is 36 S6 D1 and the number of Storm Bolter shots (depending if you buy 1 or 2).

Which are 36 D1 shots. Which is potentially more: 40 or 36? But that is assuming best possible outcome.

Vs T7 the asscann backs are hitting 24, wounding 8. The stormcannon array is hitting 13.333 wounding 6.66 for 12.66 damage.

Do you just disregard platforms because?

It didn't matter when Hurricane Bolters were only 5 points because only a few platforms could take them. Does the price matter when all the platforms are all like frickin expensive? Jeez.

Also you forgot about all the other targets besides just T7 multiwound.

If I understand correctly, we dont get dev/tactical/assault tactics if we mix custodes and guard right?

If that's so, are the new buffs worth keeping them "pure", or is soup still better?

Playing necrons soon and was thinking about bringing custode shield captain bikes and a terminator squad for 700 points, rest being Primaris for 1300 (I only have primaris). Was leaving out my repulsor and executioner because those necron shields and d6 damage.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
It's also funny your bring up snipers because they benefit from their super doctrine a full turn before raven guard. Moving and ignoring penalty scout snipers with innate reroll 1's and -1 ap on turn 1 is something even raven guard should be a bit jealous of.

Not sure what you mean that IH benefit a full turn before raven guard?

Sniper rifles are Heavy 1, so all marine armies get -1 AP on sniper rifles in turn 1.

RG don’t get move & shoot or innate reroll 1s with sniper rifles, but they do get their +1hit/+1wound super doctrine on turn 1.

Tactical doctrine doesn’t add anything to Raven Guard sniper rifles. Actually makes them less effective on AP.

Pretty sure Raven Guard only get +1 to hit and wound in tactical doctrine

Whoops, my bad :(

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Asscannons were 15 points less expensive than the stormcannon array.

They are now only 6 points cheaper.


As far as the arbitrary number that I think is "ok": look at every weapon in every army, non-forgeworld.

The closest you get are titanic unit weapons. Even the stompa's supagatla is 3d6 shots D1. The closest you get is the Vulcan Megabolter(at only S6), on a base 428 point, no invulnerable save unit.

This argument could be made for a huge variety of weapons, though.
Look at the punisher gatling cannon. Other than super heavies, nobody else gets 20 S5 shots on a single gun that can shoot twice!! And it's only 20 points!!! How unfair is that?
Look at the Heavy Laser Destroyer. FOUR whole S10 AP-4 D6 shots from a single gun? Other armies might need two whole guns to get that number of shots! And it costs even less than two Lascannons!
What about the Shokk Attack Gun? Nobody else gets that many AP-5 shots mounted onto a single weapon, especially a weapon that's only 25 points. And it can do mortal wounds! How can anyone possibly compete?

You are getting into conniptions because someone taped five Autocannons together and then tweaked the rules a bit.
Incidentally, one Stormcannon array costs the same as five Autocannons.

(Also, sidebar: Stompas suck. They are one of the worst units in the game, full stop. Comparing to them in order to make your argument look better just makes you look silly.)

Keramory wrote:
If I understand correctly, we dont get dev/tactical/assault tactics if we mix custodes and guard right?

Yes, your army needs to be "pure" SM. You can have any chapter from the new SM codex, and mix those, but you cant add any other IMPERIUM faction.

When picking psychic powers, do the supplements say that you must pick from a particular chapter's discipline, or that you may pick from that discipline? I'm trying to weasel my way in to Null Zone for a Raven Guard librarian.

You can either use the disciplines from the SM codex, or from your supplement, but you cant mix psychic powers. You would need two psykers if you want psychic powers from both books.

 p5freak wrote:
You can either use the disciplines from the SM codex, or from your supplement, but you cant mix psychic powers. You would need two psykers if you want psychic powers from both books.

You can mix powers from different disciplines with the Tome of Malcador. It lets you take an additional power from any discipline you have access to. You can't mix Librarius or Obscuration anymore though.

I know there was errata on the tome, but I couldn't find it when I looked.