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I guess after the Castellan nerf GW decided they needed another way to make it unviable to take medium vehicles...

If IF get even passable strats I’m going to have a really hard time resisting playing as them since my lists tend to revolve around mass shots already.

 Odrankt wrote:

You know the cancer on the ass if the 40k meta that is eldar flyer spam? Yeah they got buffed in the new book.

IH -1 to damage, 5++ and healing Orgy was way worse then eldar flyer spam. Imo. Using those auras and a Stratgem to make "most" damage turn to 1-2 was absolute spank. E.g. 6 damage would round down to 3 damage and then down to 2 damage. Or 4 damage would round down to 2 and then to 1.

Eldar flyer spam may be hard to hit and deal with if you don't focus fire but making Anti-tank weapons like the Necron Doomsday arks Cannon do the same damage as a Necron Gauss array is fething stupid. I'm Glade Gw fixed this cause it was broken af.

Also, before Raven guard and Iron hands got their supplements. Ultramarines and White scars got their FAQs as well. I'm going to assume that by CA19 (November/December) all new eldar, Marine and sister codexs/books will all be FaQs.

This IH nerfing is a prime example as to why you shouldn't jump the new bandwagon straight away when GW release new stuff and should wait for the 1st FaQ before buying 3 Executioner repulsors, Venerable dreadnoughts, Leviathan dreadnoughts etc. Instead if feeling gloomed about "wasting your money" becuase IH are now "bad".

So First off, Necrons have had an even more bs rule that turns 6 damage into 0 damage. The only thing that was super unique to iron hands was their best in class healing. And the half damage trait was only on dreadnoughts.

Personally the only things i bought for my list was feirros and a squad of intercessors with stalkers. I didnt use the tanks and i already had leviathans. As far as nerfs went it was super light touch, at least for my list. I did want to make an army of charachter dreadnoughts but thats not allowed anymore. I dont think in principle the durability of IH was "Broken af" And i would have preferred waiting 3 months before making any actual balance changes. The "Nerf" i wanted to see was feirros going to 150 so that we could keep the main issue of space marine vehicles fixed. Which i dont even fething play.

The nerfs didnt actually fix the competitively performing lists, they were too early to know if those lists were actually a problem for the game as a whole. so the most "Broken" thing you can do with iron hands is basically unchanged

Is it just me, or did Leviathans get bumped up in the Iron Hands meta by the FAQ, if for no other reason than they didn't really get anything nerfing them directly?

You can now explicitly do double warlord traits, (something that was unclear before,) and the main source of durability is a generic codex stratagem that wasn't taken away. We did lose out on double healing, dropping the most wounds we can get down to 4 (if we use a Techmarine with the healing Warlord Trait) but that's it.

Double Warlord traits is great - it means you don't have to pick between Storm of Iron and Student of History. (Or you can grab Student of History and All Flesh is Weakness if you're really worried about durability, or even Storm of Iron and All Flesh is Weakness if you're not worried about being charged.)

Waaaghpower wrote:
Is it just me, or did Leviathans get bumped up in the Iron Hands meta by the FAQ, if for no other reason than they didn't really get anything nerfing them directly?

You can now explicitly do double warlord traits, (something that was unclear before,) and the main source of durability is a generic codex stratagem that wasn't taken away. We did lose out on double healing, dropping the most wounds we can get down to 4 (if we use a Techmarine with the healing Warlord Trait) but that's it.

Double Warlord traits is great - it means you don't have to pick between Storm of Iron and Student of History. (Or you can grab Student of History and All Flesh is Weakness if you're really worried about durability, or even Storm of Iron and All Flesh is Weakness if you're not worried about being charged.)

I'm really curious where the fascination with how durable you can make one leviathan comes from. He's slow, he has short range. I can kill the rest of your army while you buff your one dredd.

footfoe wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Is it just me, or did Leviathans get bumped up in the Iron Hands meta by the FAQ, if for no other reason than they didn't really get anything nerfing them directly?

You can now explicitly do double warlord traits, (something that was unclear before,) and the main source of durability is a generic codex stratagem that wasn't taken away. We did lose out on double healing, dropping the most wounds we can get down to 4 (if we use a Techmarine with the healing Warlord Trait) but that's it.

Double Warlord traits is great - it means you don't have to pick between Storm of Iron and Student of History. (Or you can grab Student of History and All Flesh is Weakness if you're really worried about durability, or even Storm of Iron and All Flesh is Weakness if you're not worried about being charged.)

I'm really curious where the fascination with how durable you can make one leviathan comes from. He's slow, he has short range. I can kill the rest of your army while you buff your one dredd.

That's the thing - you don't actually need to buff the dread that much. 2CP at the start of the game, 1cp if you're worried about something going after him in a shooting phase, that's all it takes. The people talking about stacking a half dozen abilities and psychic powers on him were going overboard - He's got an inherent 14w, 2+4++6+++. It doesn't take that much to make him ridiculously resilient.

He's also not *that* slow or short ranged. 8" movement and 24" isn't the highest threat range ever, but it's not nothing. In ITC games with a lot of terrain on the board, it's hard to properly bring guns with 48"+ to bear anyways because of how difficult drawing LOS is.

I love the idea of having an unkillable unit in the middle of the enemy army. It gives me something to hug for a turn before wrecking even more of your army. And no, you will not get overwatch.

bmsattler wrote:
I love the idea of having an unkillable unit in the middle of the enemy army. It gives me something to hug for a turn before wrecking even more of your army. And no, you will not get overwatch.

Sure, if you have one of the small handful of factions that can fall back and charge at will, you're already knee-deep in my army, and I apparently haven't had a chance to shoot at you at all - but if that's the case, having or not having a Leviathan isn't really going to make much of a difference.

Seriously, though, what kind of argument are you trying to make? "Durable units are bad because they can be used to tarpit"?! You can use *anything* to tarpit. I've seen twenty genestealers tag a squad of five scouts to avoid being shot at. The durability of the unit you're tagging doesn't matter, and the suggestion that people should forgo durable units in order to counter one specific strategy that isn't even durability-dependant is one of the silliest arguments I think I've seen on this forum.

Waaaghpower wrote:
and the suggestion that people should forgo durable units in order to counter one specific strategy that isn't even durability-dependant is one of the silliest arguments I think I've seen on this forum.

I agree that's pretty silly. I didn't say it. All I'm saying is that durable units, especially those with limited melee capability and lacking the fly keyword, can be used against an opponent.

bmsattler wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
and the suggestion that people should forgo durable units in order to counter one specific strategy that isn't even durability-dependant is one of the silliest arguments I think I've seen on this forum.

I agree that's pretty silly. I didn't say it. All I'm saying is that durable units, especially those with limited melee capability and lacking the fly keyword, can be used against an opponent.

Your comment, lacking in any context or anything else, is purely a criticism of bringing durable models. "I love the idea of having an unkillable unit in the middle of the enemy army" is a fairly unambiguous statement - having an unkillable unit in the middle of your opponent's army is a good thing for you. (Which, as I pointed out in the rest of my post, isn't even true. The durability is almost completely immaterial. Limited melee and lacking the Fly keyword? Yeah, those two things matter. Being durable? Not at all. You can tag pretty much anything.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Is it just me, or did Leviathans get bumped up in the Iron Hands meta by the FAQ, if for no other reason than they didn't really get anything nerfing them directly?

You can now explicitly do double warlord traits, (something that was unclear before,) and the main source of durability is a generic codex stratagem that wasn't taken away. We did lose out on double healing, dropping the most wounds we can get down to 4 (if we use a Techmarine with the healing Warlord Trait) but that's it.

Double Warlord traits is great - it means you don't have to pick between Storm of Iron and Student of History. (Or you can grab Student of History and All Flesh is Weakness if you're really worried about durability, or even Storm of Iron and All Flesh is Weakness if you're not worried about being charged.)

I think the generically best traits to put on him are merciless logic. Because making stormcannons 13 shots is fething gross and I fething love it and studentbofnhostiry. Student of history gives them more game against their weaknesses and I think hero of the chapter should be used to give your ironstone charachter the 5+++


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How do you guys feel about the named character exploit where if you hero of the chapter Iron father feirros, he can have any warlord trait for example adept of the omnissiah.


Personally i dont really think its all that useful for him specifcally but other charachters could have neato rules

Was there ever an official answer to if a unit has an ability that says "If they did not move in their previous movement phase" if that works on turn one if they didn't go first?

I'm pretty sure there's been a FAQ on aggressors saying that things like Auspex scan work to fire twice.

There are a couple of reviews up on youtube now showing the full rules. Check out GMG if you want.

One really interesting new strat for 2CPs lets a unit fire its bolt guns in combat. You turn all those guns into Pistol X, where X is the number of shots it normally has. Good for assault and heavy weapons - not so good for rapid fire.

So one thing this means is that normal bolt rifles aren't worth using this strat on. You may as well just use your bolt pistols really. But ABRs give you 3 shots each, and that's pretty great. Stalkers might be worth using against things with multiple wounds.

But the real news is those bolter centurions again. Tagging them in cc was the one really effective plan before. That's not going to work any more unless you're prepared to lose your unit. I guess maybe that's not such a loss in many cases - people kind of expect to lose the unit and accept it to prevent the firing.

Something I'm still not clear on is whether Crimson Fists are allowed to have a siegebreaker battalion from Vigilus. The stratagem is not copied across. It says that successors get to use Imperial Fists strats and I think that means they can do it. I'm pretty confident any other successor is allowed to, so it would be weird if Crimson Fists couldn't.

There are some other strats that improve durability. One lets you add 1 to a unit's save if it's within 3" of an objective. Another does the same if a unit's fully in cover and doesn't move. So you can have some extremely tough centurions.

And there's also a strat to give a unit +1 to wound vs a vehicle. Combine that, 2+ to hit from Garadon, all the rerolls and stuff, and a unit of 6 Centurions can pretty much drop an IK two times over.

One thing I'm quite happy about is that my Crimson Fists get their Fist of Vengeance and Duty's burden copied across. And Pedro's Arrow of Dorn has become D2, so it's a pretty respectable gun too. You can therefore have a fair number of characters who are all armed with respectable shooting weapons in a Crimson Fist army. Unfortunately Duty's Burden can't be given to an Ancient any more (which I thought it could before) as it has to replace a master-crafted gun of some kind.

I like my characters to have guns. They spend a lot of time stood around doing very little otherwise. Pedro is fairly cheap for a Chapter Master at 150, so the fact he can actually shoot a few things dead too is quite cool.

There seem to be quite a lot of different ways that you could potentially use Fists. Their infantry and vehicles are both good. I think the optimal weapon choices are actually slightly less obvious than you might think and it's not necessarily just a case of buying as many heavy bolters as you can. Weapons like autocannons, which have a decent number of shots, a better chance to wound, and more base damage, may do better overall.

So, now that all supplements are either out or can be read on the various review videos, I think that the new sleeve of rules benefitted more oldmarines than Primaris in a certain way.

What do you think it's the best chapter tactics to field lots of primaris bodies? An anchor of intercessors plus supporting units here and there.

Thinking about this a bit more, I kinda like how situational the IF trait is. Unlike with other chapters, there might actually be reason to switch out of their favoured doctrine.

Thoughts on the astraeus now with the updated faq? Seems really viable and does the save+1 work on the void shields?

COLD CASH wrote:
Thoughts on the astraeus now with the updated faq? Seems really viable and does the save+1 work on the void shields?

Yes it does work on void shields.

I think its viable enough that i bought one

What did they update on the Astraeus? Not finding any changes

Khornatedemon wrote:
What did they update on the Astraeus? Not finding any changes

With the iron hands nerfs the astraeus becomes IMO a clearly superior exe!

COLD CASH wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:
What did they update on the Astraeus? Not finding any changes

With the iron hands nerfs the astraeus becomes IMO a clearly superior exe!

Idk I still think it costs too much. You get 2 exe for a tiny bit less.

Khornatedemon wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:
What did they update on the Astraeus? Not finding any changes

With the iron hands nerfs the astraeus becomes IMO a clearly superior exe!

Idk I still think it costs too much. You get 2 exe for a tiny bit less.

The difference is that an astreaues is arguably tougher to kill then 2 executioners. It has a native invuln thats improved by cover, and by a psychic power, and a better save. 32 wounds vs 24 is important, but you get the ironstone for all 24 of those wounds. and its got a 2+ save. In addition its got a great gun for taking out IH flyers and Eldar flyers which are big in the format right now

Rakdarian wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:
What did they update on the Astraeus? Not finding any changes

With the iron hands nerfs the astraeus becomes IMO a clearly superior exe!

Idk I still think it costs too much. You get 2 exe for a tiny bit less.

The difference is that an astreaues is arguably tougher to kill then 2 executioners. It has a native invuln thats improved by cover, and by a psychic power, and a better save. 32 wounds vs 24 is important, but you get the ironstone for all 24 of those wounds. and its got a 2+ save. In addition its got a great gun for taking out IH flyers and Eldar flyers which are big in the format right now

But its 1/3 of your army to kill one flyer a turn. Probably close to half once you factor in character support. The other 5 flyers kill the rest of your army.

Khornatedemon wrote:

Rakdarian wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:
What did they update on the Astraeus? Not finding any changes

With the iron hands nerfs the astraeus becomes IMO a clearly superior exe!

Idk I still think it costs too much. You get 2 exe for a tiny bit less.

The difference is that an astreaues is arguably tougher to kill then 2 executioners. It has a native invuln thats improved by cover, and by a psychic power, and a better save. 32 wounds vs 24 is important, but you get the ironstone for all 24 of those wounds. and its got a 2+ save. In addition its got a great gun for taking out IH flyers and Eldar flyers which are big in the format right now

But its 1/3 of your army to kill one flyer a turn. Probably close to half once you factor in character support. The other 5 flyers kill the rest of your army.

I’m fairly sure with Lieutenant rerolls, with feirros acting as 3(4) heals a turn it’s not quite that bad. And I’m fairly sure the main gun by itself can kill a flyer a turn. There’s a lot more gun on that

Rakdarian wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:

Rakdarian wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:

COLD CASH wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:
What did they update on the Astraeus? Not finding any changes

With the iron hands nerfs the astraeus becomes IMO a clearly superior exe!

Idk I still think it costs too much. You get 2 exe for a tiny bit less.

The difference is that an astreaues is arguably tougher to kill then 2 executioners. It has a native invuln thats improved by cover, and by a psychic power, and a better save. 32 wounds vs 24 is important, but you get the ironstone for all 24 of those wounds. and its got a 2+ save. In addition its got a great gun for taking out IH flyers and Eldar flyers which are big in the format right now

But its 1/3 of your army to kill one flyer a turn. Probably close to half once you factor in character support. The other 5 flyers kill the rest of your army.

I’m fairly sure with Lieutenant rerolls, with feirros acting as 3(4) heals a turn it’s not quite that bad. And I’m fairly sure the main gun by itself can kill a flyer a turn. There’s a lot more gun on that

A twin heavy bolter and 2 24" range lascannons. The low range probably means they dont hit anything turn 1 at least unless your putting it right on the line. I still dont see it being worth it. It's a castellan that does less dmg.

? 2 Lascannons and 2 plasma incinerators isnt enough for you.

COLD CASH wrote:
? 2 Lascannons and 2 plasma incinerators isnt enough for you.

Not for 750 points. But that's my perspective. Try it and tell us how it goes. No sarcasm I'd love to see it against a tuned IF army.

Pedro has actually been improved a lot, now that I've had a squint at the GMG video. Reviewers have missed how much he's changed, probably because the changes are quite subtle.

The most important change is to his aura. Previously it added 1 to attacks of Crimson Fist models within 6" of him. Now it adds 1 to attacks of models in Crimson Fist units that are within 6" of him. This is a huge change as it massively spreads out the radius of this buff.

He's also got the proper chapter master rerolls now, plus he gained an attack and D2 on his gun. The five attacks on his profile, his aura and the Angels of Death rule mean that he gets seven attacks on the charge, at least six of which should hit.

So overall Pedro is really cool now. In the past I've preferred my Primaris captain with the Fist of Vengeance but Pedro is now a really serious buffing character who can do work in melee too. His 6 wounds and 5 attacks are the profile of a Primaris captain, even if technically he isn't Primaris. I'm going to finish my Marneus Calgar-based conversion and get this guy onto a table. He rocks.

Mandragola wrote:
Pedro has actually been improved a lot, now that I've had a squint at the GMG video. Reviewers have missed how much he's changed, probably because the changes are quite subtle.

The most important change is to his aura. Previously it added 1 to attacks of Crimson Fist models within 6" of him. Now it adds 1 to attacks of models in Crimson Fist units that are within 6" of him. This is a huge change as it massively spreads out the radius of this buff.

He's also got the proper chapter master rerolls now, plus he gained an attack and D2 on his gun. The five attacks on his profile, his aura and the Angels of Death rule mean that he gets seven attacks on the charge, at least six of which should hit.

So overall Pedro is really cool now. In the past I've preferred my Primaris captain with the Fist of Vengeance but Pedro is now a really serious buffing character who can do work in melee too. His 6 wounds and 5 attacks are the profile of a Primaris captain, even if technically he isn't Primaris. I'm going to finish my Marneus Calgar-based conversion and get this guy onto a table. He rocks.

Better show that off when you're done.

Pedro is really the only thing pulling Crimson Fists together though. Otherwise they're just worse Imperial Fists.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Pedro has actually been improved a lot, now that I've had a squint at the GMG video. Reviewers have missed how much he's changed, probably because the changes are quite subtle.

The most important change is to his aura. Previously it added 1 to attacks of Crimson Fist models within 6" of him. Now it adds 1 to attacks of models in Crimson Fist units that are within 6" of him. This is a huge change as it massively spreads out the radius of this buff.

He's also got the proper chapter master rerolls now, plus he gained an attack and D2 on his gun. The five attacks on his profile, his aura and the Angels of Death rule mean that he gets seven attacks on the charge, at least six of which should hit.

So overall Pedro is really cool now. In the past I've preferred my Primaris captain with the Fist of Vengeance but Pedro is now a really serious buffing character who can do work in melee too. His 6 wounds and 5 attacks are the profile of a Primaris captain, even if technically he isn't Primaris. I'm going to finish my Marneus Calgar-based conversion and get this guy onto a table. He rocks.

Better show that off when you're done.

Pedro is really the only thing pulling Crimson Fists together though. Otherwise they're just worse Imperial Fists.

I don't agree with that at all. +1 to hit is often a better buff than ignoring cover. Hordes are a thing. Plaguebearers come in large numbers, with penalties to be hit, and are not in cover. I find the Crimson Fist buff at least as good as the Imperial Fist one.

And for what it's worth, the relics are also pretty great. I've had a lot of fun with the Fist of Vengeance on a Primaris Captain - though he might see a bit less action now Pedro's so good. The relic rifle is great too - albeit something of a duplcation of the Bellicos Bolt Rifle in the main book. It can replace a Stalker rifle though, so you can take a Lieutenant to an event and go with either Duty's Burden or Lament, depending on your opponent. Or neither, to save CPs.

To be honest there isn't a lot to choose between Crimson and Imperial Fists. If Crimson Fists can't have a siegebreaker cohort then that would be a pain. As far as I can tell they should be able to, as any other Imperial Fist successor can... though I guess it would be a little odd if Black Templars could. In fact the whole thing could really do with some clarification.

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Pedro has actually been improved a lot, now that I've had a squint at the GMG video. Reviewers have missed how much he's changed, probably because the changes are quite subtle.

The most important change is to his aura. Previously it added 1 to attacks of Crimson Fist models within 6" of him. Now it adds 1 to attacks of models in Crimson Fist units that are within 6" of him. This is a huge change as it massively spreads out the radius of this buff.

He's also got the proper chapter master rerolls now, plus he gained an attack and D2 on his gun. The five attacks on his profile, his aura and the Angels of Death rule mean that he gets seven attacks on the charge, at least six of which should hit.

So overall Pedro is really cool now. In the past I've preferred my Primaris captain with the Fist of Vengeance but Pedro is now a really serious buffing character who can do work in melee too. His 6 wounds and 5 attacks are the profile of a Primaris captain, even if technically he isn't Primaris. I'm going to finish my Marneus Calgar-based conversion and get this guy onto a table. He rocks.

Better show that off when you're done.

Pedro is really the only thing pulling Crimson Fists together though. Otherwise they're just worse Imperial Fists.

I don't agree with that at all. +1 to hit is often a better buff than ignoring cover. Hordes are a thing. Plaguebearers come in large numbers, with penalties to be hit, and are not in cover. I find the Crimson Fist buff at least as good as the Imperial Fist one.

And for what it's worth, the relics are also pretty great. I've had a lot of fun with the Fist of Vengeance on a Primaris Captain - though he might see a bit less action now Pedro's so good. The relic rifle is great too - albeit something of a duplcation of the Bellicos Bolt Rifle in the main book. It can replace a Stalker rifle though, so you can take a Lieutenant to an event and go with either Duty's Burden or Lament, depending on your opponent. Or neither, to save CPs.

To be honest there isn't a lot to choose between Crimson and Imperial Fists. If Crimson Fists can't have a siegebreaker cohort then that would be a pain. As far as I can tell they should be able to, as any other Imperial Fist successor can... though I guess it would be a little odd if Black Templars could. In fact the whole thing could really do with some clarification.

That relies on an opponent actually building for you to get that advantage. The only army Imperial Fists aren't gonna get a bonus against is Daemons. Otherwise, they don't care about your terrain or how you deploy. On top of that they entirely negate a set of army bonuses (and they're the most competitive usually to boot). Crimson Fists have none of that.

Relics are only going to give you so much when other armies have better ways to deliver smash dudes and Strats/rules to back them up.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Pedro has actually been improved a lot, now that I've had a squint at the GMG video. Reviewers have missed how much he's changed, probably because the changes are quite subtle.

The most important change is to his aura. Previously it added 1 to attacks of Crimson Fist models within 6" of him. Now it adds 1 to attacks of models in Crimson Fist units that are within 6" of him. This is a huge change as it massively spreads out the radius of this buff.

He's also got the proper chapter master rerolls now, plus he gained an attack and D2 on his gun. The five attacks on his profile, his aura and the Angels of Death rule mean that he gets seven attacks on the charge, at least six of which should hit.

So overall Pedro is really cool now. In the past I've preferred my Primaris captain with the Fist of Vengeance but Pedro is now a really serious buffing character who can do work in melee too. His 6 wounds and 5 attacks are the profile of a Primaris captain, even if technically he isn't Primaris. I'm going to finish my Marneus Calgar-based conversion and get this guy onto a table. He rocks.

Better show that off when you're done.

Pedro is really the only thing pulling Crimson Fists together though. Otherwise they're just worse Imperial Fists.

I don't agree with that at all. +1 to hit is often a better buff than ignoring cover. Hordes are a thing. Plaguebearers come in large numbers, with penalties to be hit, and are not in cover. I find the Crimson Fist buff at least as good as the Imperial Fist one.

And for what it's worth, the relics are also pretty great. I've had a lot of fun with the Fist of Vengeance on a Primaris Captain - though he might see a bit less action now Pedro's so good. The relic rifle is great too - albeit something of a duplcation of the Bellicos Bolt Rifle in the main book. It can replace a Stalker rifle though, so you can take a Lieutenant to an event and go with either Duty's Burden or Lament, depending on your opponent. Or neither, to save CPs.

To be honest there isn't a lot to choose between Crimson and Imperial Fists. If Crimson Fists can't have a siegebreaker cohort then that would be a pain. As far as I can tell they should be able to, as any other Imperial Fist successor can... though I guess it would be a little odd if Black Templars could. In fact the whole thing could really do with some clarification.

That relies on an opponent actually building for you to get that advantage. The only army Imperial Fists aren't gonna get a bonus against is Daemons. Otherwise, they don't care about your terrain or how you deploy. On top of that they entirely negate a set of army bonuses (and they're the most competitive usually to boot). Crimson Fists have none of that.

Relics are only going to give you so much when other armies have better ways to deliver smash dudes and Strats/rules to back them up.

It really doesn't rely on that. It's a situational bonus. So is ignoring cover. It's true that ignoring cover will probably come up more often than +1 to hit, but personally I think the hit bonus is more impactful.

A lot of high-performing armies feature big units. We're still in something of a horde meta. Being able to hit plaguebearers really helps.

Generally, the IF bonus is going to help you clear things like back field objectives. That's clearly a very useful thing. The CF bonus tends to help against front line stuff like ork boyz, daemons, cultists (who are probably not a thing any more to be fair) and guard. Some Eldar builds are fielding large units now too.

And the fist of Vengeance really helps a lot. You're probably playing a kind of gunline. Having your captain not just give rerolls but also pop out and smash a knight is seriously good. An IF gunline is a bit less able to punch back if the enemy gets to them.