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2019/10/21 19:59:05
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Devastator Squad [6 PL, 150pts]: Armorium Cherub
. Space Marine Sergeant
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp . Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp
I think I use several UM bonus pretty well, such as the classic grav-deva in Tactical Doctrine or the seal of Oath with the 9 men squad (able to kill a hive tyran or a tank as easily as a gaunt squad).
I think some venerable dreads with LC would serve you better than vet squads. Scout bikes already fill that roll pretty well IMO. They also make good use of doctrines - turn 1 they are AP -4 which is nice but they don't mind being switched to tactical ether so they hit on 2's on the move.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/21 19:59:58
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/10/21 21:19:42
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Has anyone tried several squads of scouts with sniper rifles near a seal of oath ? If I'm not mistaken, it says reroll to hit and to wound, not failed to wound so you could reroll all of those 4 and 5 (and 3 occasionally) to fish for 6 . 15 scouts would put between 4 to 5 mw in addition of normal wounds (6 in average), killing a marine character (including gravis or named characters) in a single volley.
195 pts (not counting the character because it would be taken anyway as an HQ).
3 eliminator squads are doing merely the same and are more expensive, but probably easier to hide.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/10/21 21:41:38
I want to brew lists for Salamanders but i dont know what the point is since i feel nothing will be available after the two week FAQ.
I want to buy and build a list, but, i dont want to get burned like the people who bought into executioners after the iron hands supplement, or chaplain dreads after the raven guard supplement, or relic whirlwinds after the space marines codex/ultramarines supplement.
Its like were beta testing and its super fething expensive to be a part of this. I got lucky with my iron hands list in that the one i wanted to build was barely touched, but i had plans on buying a set of venerables and mortis dreadnoughts to play that meme list and now whats the point.
Salamanders is the chapter I enjoy playing the most and they have a lot of abilities that seem like really fun ways to build around it, but if two(four) weeks later i cant do fething anything with them because all the stuff i wanted to build with them is suddenly not allowed anymore, whats the point.
Its a really bitter pill to swallow spending hundreds of hours painting 700$ worth of models only to hear that yea that list you wanted to play isnt allowed to be played any more.
It really hurts the enthusiasm
2019/10/22 01:58:31
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Rakdarian wrote: I want to brew lists for Salamanders but i dont know what the point is since i feel nothing will be available after the two week FAQ.
I want to buy and build a list, but, i dont want to get burned like the people who bought into executioners after the iron hands supplement, or chaplain dreads after the raven guard supplement, or relic whirlwinds after the space marines codex/ultramarines supplement.
Its like were beta testing and its super fething expensive to be a part of this. I got lucky with my iron hands list in that the one i wanted to build was barely touched, but i had plans on buying a set of venerables and mortis dreadnoughts to play that meme list and now whats the point.
Salamanders is the chapter I enjoy playing the most and they have a lot of abilities that seem like really fun ways to build around it, but if two(four) weeks later i cant do fething anything with them because all the stuff i wanted to build with them is suddenly not allowed anymore, whats the point.
Its a really bitter pill to swallow spending hundreds of hours painting 700$ worth of models only to hear that yea that list you wanted to play isnt allowed to be played any more.
It really hurts the enthusiasm
Don't chase meta, play what you like and you'll be set.
So I decided that, after a test game, I NEED that anti-vehicle just in case for my Raptors. However, the real question is what direction to go? For reference, the old list is as follows:
Spoiler:
BRIGADE - Raptors (Raven Guard Successor w/ Stealthy, Long Range Marksmen)
HQ:
x1 Lias Issodon
x1 Terminator Captain w/ Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Relic: Armor of Shadows, Hero of the Chapter: Storm of Fire
x1 Biker Captain w/ Storm Bolter, Chainsword, Relic: Teeth of Terra, Masters of the Tri-Fold Path: Feigned Flight
For reference, the list is pretty simple. The Terminator Captain camps with the Thunderfire Cannons, the Biker Captain will initially help babysit a couple of Scouts or Intercessors or both depending on how I need to deploy, and then after some brief chaff clearing Lias and everyone in the Elite slot drops down for an Alpha/Beta strike. Sentry Guns, meanwhile, help create a barrier for the backfield and have decent firepower and durability (thanks GW for Chapter Tactics on everyone) for the price. While the Thunderfire Cannons did a lot for lighter vehicles, anything that's heavy but not a Knight is going to be slightly harder to crack, and I need to be able to camp against those targets. Then it hit me: what's stupid tough for the price and can poke from just as far away? Hunters that don't need babysitting of course. So I am planning to test the following, which is basically the same list to be frank:
Spoiler:
BRIGADE - Raptors (Raven Guard Successor w/ Stealthy, Long Range Marksmen)
HQ:
x1 Lias Issodon
x1 Terminator Captain w/ Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Relic: Armor of Shadows, Hero of the Chapter: The Imperium's Sword
x1 Biker Captain w/ Storm Bolter, Chainsword, Relic: Teeth of Terra, Masters of the Tri-Fold Path: Feigned Flight
FAST ATTACK:
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun w/ Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun w/ Twin Heavy Bolter
x1 Tarantula Sentry Gun w/ Twin Heavy Bolter
ELITES:
x10 Sternguard w/ 2 Grav Cannons
x10 Sternguard w/ 2 Grav Cannons
x10 Sternguard w/ 2 Grav Cannons
x1 Ancient in Terminator Armor, Relic: Standard of the Emperor Ascendant
HEAVY SUPPORT:
x1 Thunderfire Cannon
x1 Hunter w/ HK Missile
x1 Hunter w/ HK Missile
x1 Hunter w/ HK Missile
So to fit in at least one Thunderfire Cannon, which is possible, I removed 1 Scout from each squad in the original list. There is less to spam against Characters now, but I think the Hunters create some light poking at the heavier vehicles without an Invul to fall back on. Now, because of the accuracy they already show, I would likely switch out the Terminator Captain for maybe a Lt. to babysit the Hunters on the only thing they need, which is the rerolling to wound here and there. Assuming I do that, after adding a Power Fist and The Primarch's Wrath (he might be able to contribute to shooting at least, or I just stick with Armor of Shadows for sticking around), there might be enough points to add back a Sniper Scout to each squad again.
NOW another idea outside that is keeping the Captain and 6 man Scout squads and losing the all three TFCs to add in Stalkers with HKs on each one too. Now I LOVE Stalkers, and even though they hit ground targets less, they will benefit from the Captain still and have enough shots to kinda hurt screening units.
It's a tough choice not gonna lie.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/10/22 05:34:28
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
My Imperial Fists brethren, why don't we discuss about Tor Garadon best pals?
I think a dakka Redemptor is a good candidate. Lots of shots to buff with the signum array+rr1s, even when it degrades, and both hit like a truck (huge CaC deterrent).
Bolter Agressors also come to mind.
Any more ideas? (I know Centurions will come up too, bu I hate them
2019/10/22 05:49:07
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
DanielFM wrote: My Imperial Fists brethren, why don't we discuss about Tor Garadon best pals?
I think a dakka Redemptor is a good candidate. Lots of shots to buff with the signum array+rr1s, even when it degrades, and both hit like a truck (huge CaC deterrent).
Bolter Agressors also come to mind.
Any more ideas? (I know Centurions will come up too, bu I hate them
Why would you hate Centurions? The models honestly require super little work to make look good.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2019/10/22 05:53:09
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Rakdarian wrote: I want to brew lists for Salamanders but i dont know what the point is since i feel nothing will be available after the two week FAQ.
I want to buy and build a list, but, i dont want to get burned like the people who bought into executioners after the iron hands supplement, or chaplain dreads after the raven guard supplement, or relic whirlwinds after the space marines codex/ultramarines supplement.
Its like were beta testing and its super fething expensive to be a part of this. I got lucky with my iron hands list in that the one i wanted to build was barely touched, but i had plans on buying a set of venerables and mortis dreadnoughts to play that meme list and now whats the point.
Salamanders is the chapter I enjoy playing the most and they have a lot of abilities that seem like really fun ways to build around it, but if two(four) weeks later i cant do fething anything with them because all the stuff i wanted to build with them is suddenly not allowed anymore, whats the point.
Its a really bitter pill to swallow spending hundreds of hours painting 700$ worth of models only to hear that yea that list you wanted to play isnt allowed to be played any more.
It really hurts the enthusiasm
Don't chase meta, play what you like and you'll be set.
It’s not a matter of meta chasing it’s a matter of “I want to build a list around a certain gimmick” like I was planning on buying a bunch of venerable and Morris dreadnoughts so I could have a fluffy charachter dreadnoughts list. Unfortunately for anyone who went out and bought those you can’t play that list anymore thanks to the faq. I’m also convinced that any list trying to embrace a gimmick with salamanders is going to get hit in the FAQs that’s incoming. So why bother? Casual players are gong to get burned and so are competitive players which is not ideal for anyone
2019/10/22 05:57:10
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
tneva82 wrote: So wait for the 2 weeks and see what happens? You can't be the sole guy in the world without big pile of shame while waiting for the FAQ
So why get excited if the book isn’t actually out then. It took a month to get the iron hands faq
2019/10/22 06:51:49
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
tneva82 wrote: So wait for the 2 weeks and see what happens? You can't be the sole guy in the world without big pile of shame while waiting for the FAQ
So why get excited if the book isn’t actually out then. It took a month to get the iron hands faq
Hopefully we get that FAQ faster and it squashes any broken combos. Waste those dollars flamer boys, prior to the FAQ!
2019/10/22 07:18:02
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
the iron hands one was held off because GW wanted to wait and see before hitting it with a nerf bat. Sallies I doubt are i need of a nerf quite so much
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/10/22 08:12:22
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
BrianDavion wrote: the iron hands one was held off because GW wanted to wait and see before hitting it with a nerf bat. Sallies I doubt are i need of a nerf quite so much
Sallies specifically are worse then iron hands. 2” charges on turn 1 and untargetable centurions/devastators, kataphrons, basically any big unit with big gun has better then charachter keywords for as long as you want. At least you could interact with iron hands, you c any do that with sallies.
2019/10/22 08:47:46
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
DanielFM wrote: My Imperial Fists brethren, why don't we discuss about Tor Garadon best pals?
I think a dakka Redemptor is a good candidate. Lots of shots to buff with the signum array+rr1s, even when it degrades, and both hit like a truck (huge CaC deterrent).
Bolter Agressors also come to mind.
Any more ideas? (I know Centurions will come up too, bu I hate them
Why would you hate Centurions? The models honestly require super little work to make look good.
Because the models are crap and poorly introduced and the first in the long line of Space Marines range destruction. I can't even understand how people would give away hard earned money for... that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 10:54:28
tneva82 wrote: So wait for the 2 weeks and see what happens? You can't be the sole guy in the world without big pile of shame while waiting for the FAQ
So why get excited if the book isn’t actually out then. It took a month to get the iron hands faq
IH is sole exception of the 2 week period so don't base things on it.
But you can play now but it's never good idea to spend lots of money before faq. Otherwise ork players might have rushed to get meganobz with idea of 2++ meganobz! With GW not a good idea. Don't give GW what they want.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2019/10/22 09:59:33
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
tneva82 wrote: So wait for the 2 weeks and see what happens? You can't be the sole guy in the world without big pile of shame while waiting for the FAQ
So why get excited if the book isn’t actually out then. It took a month to get the iron hands faq
IH is sole exception of the 2 week period so don't base things on it.
But you can play now but it's never good idea to spend lots of money before faq. Otherwise ork players might have rushed to get meganobz with idea of 2++ meganobz! With GW not a good idea. Don't give GW what they want.
Sole exception? What about ravenguard
2019/10/22 10:51:17
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
BrianDavion wrote: the iron hands one was held off because GW wanted to wait and see before hitting it with a nerf bat. Sallies I doubt are i need of a nerf quite so much
Sallies specifically are worse then iron hands. 2” charges on turn 1 and untargetable centurions/devastators, kataphrons, basically any big unit with big gun has better then charachter keywords for as long as your CPs hold out. At least you could interact with iron hands, you c any do that with sallies.
fixed that for you.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
2019/10/22 10:55:23
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
BrianDavion wrote: the iron hands one was held off because GW wanted to wait and see before hitting it with a nerf bat. Sallies I doubt are i need of a nerf quite so much
Sallies specifically are worse then iron hands. 2” charges on turn 1 and untargetable centurions/devastators, kataphrons, basically any big unit with big gun has better then charachter keywords for as long as your CPs hold out. At least you could interact with iron hands, you c any do that with sallies.
fixed that for you.
It is entirely reasonable to have a vanguard of salamanders and then 2 brigades of admech with this setup.
CP is not a problem.
though this might actually have a very hard time dealing with dark eldar
2019/10/22 12:00:32
Subject: Re:+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Rakdarian wrote: It’s not a matter of meta chasing it’s a matter of “I want to build a list around a certain gimmick” like I was planning on buying a bunch of venerable and Morris dreadnoughts so I could have a fluffy charachter dreadnoughts list. Unfortunately for anyone who went out and bought those you can’t play that list anymore thanks to the faq. I’m also convinced that any list trying to embrace a gimmick with salamanders is going to get hit in the FAQs that’s incoming. So why bother? Casual players are gong to get burned and so are competitive players which is not ideal for anyone
That's why you shouldn't be building around gimmicks. A single FAQ can invalidate it.
Just buy models you like and think are cool. This is a hobby after all. It might be best to just take a step back and wait to see how it all shakes out.
BrianDavion wrote: the iron hands one was held off because GW wanted to wait and see before hitting it with a nerf bat. Sallies I doubt are i need of a nerf quite so much
Sallies specifically are worse then iron hands. 2” charges on turn 1 and untargetable centurions/devastators, kataphrons, basically any big unit with big gun has better then charachter keywords for as long as you want. At least you could interact with iron hands, you c any do that with sallies.
2" charges on turn 1 for Salamanders? Did I miss something in the reviews?
| | Krieg | | 30k: Alpha Legion | | Blackshields
2019/10/22 12:26:57
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
DanielFM wrote: My Imperial Fists brethren, why don't we discuss about Tor Garadon best pals?
I think a dakka Redemptor is a good candidate. Lots of shots to buff with the signum array+rr1s, even when it degrades, and both hit like a truck (huge CaC deterrent).
Bolter Agressors also come to mind.
Any more ideas? (I know Centurions will come up too, bu I hate them
Why would you hate Centurions? The models honestly require super little work to make look good.
DanielFM wrote: My Imperial Fists brethren, why don't we discuss about Tor Garadon best pals?
I think a dakka Redemptor is a good candidate. Lots of shots to buff with the signum array+rr1s, even when it degrades, and both hit like a truck (huge CaC deterrent).
Bolter Agressors also come to mind.
Any more ideas? (I know Centurions will come up too, bu I hate them
Why would you hate Centurions? The models honestly require super little work to make look good.
Because the models are crap and poorly introduced and the first in the long line of Space Marines range destruction. I can't even understand how people would give away hard earned money for... that.
Because exosquad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 13:58:32
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/10/22 14:07:43
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
Why are people saying Crimson Fist CT are bad ? SM are usually MSU anyway and hitting on 2+ with so many rerolls 1 available seem pretty good to me. At least they don't look that bad haha
And they keep the +1 damages against vehicles (such a shame it's doesn't do anything against monsters !)
godardc wrote: Why are people saying Crimson Fist CT are bad ? SM are usually MSU anyway and hitting on 2+ with so many rerolls 1 available seem pretty good to me. At least they don't look that bad haha
And they keep the +1 damages against vehicles (such a shame it's doesn't do anything against monsters !)
Because the trigger condition is terrible.
2019/10/22 14:18:20
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
+5 ? Maybe it's because if my meta, but big squads of gaunts, genestealers, necrons warriors and immortals, even full chaos or cultist squads are pretty common.
In a Marine vs Marine game I can see that being useless though
Without seeing the relics for CF I can't say for sure. They share the +1 damage with heavies vs vehicles right? That right there already makes them better than all other chapters not named ironhands or imperial fists. Plus the still get the super solid 6's on bolters generate auto hits... LOL. Cents already ignore cover too and as a 3 man unit they are going to hit on 2's vs lots of things. They are strong.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/10/22 14:29:07
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
godardc wrote: +5 ? Maybe it's because if my meta, but big squads of gaunts, genestealers, necrons warriors and immortals, even full chaos or cultist squads are pretty common.
In a Marine vs Marine game I can see that being useless though
Thats largely the point. Yeah you'll potentially get it against infantry, but it will never trigger against large targets, or against any faction that isnt running 10-man squads of things. As a result, when compared to an always on ability like the IF prime CT, or a tailored successor chapter, its just not up to snuff.
2019/10/22 14:32:19
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
godardc wrote: +5 ? Maybe it's because if my meta, but big squads of gaunts, genestealers, necrons warriors and immortals, even full chaos or cultist squads are pretty common.
In a Marine vs Marine game I can see that being useless though
Thats largely the point. Yeah you'll potentially get it against infantry, but it will never trigger against large targets, or against any faction that isnt running 10-man squads of things. As a result, when compared to an always on ability like the IF prime CT, or a tailored successor chapter, its just not up to snuff.
How often does a knight or a tank get cover though? Not nearly as much as infantry. There is nothing in the successor tree remotely as good as extra hits for bolters on 6's. It is probably as good as any 2 successor traits. Does Kantor still give a +1 attack aura?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/22 14:34:40
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2019/10/22 14:39:03
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
How often does a knight or a tank get cover though? Not nearly as much as infantry. There is nothing in the successor tree remotely as good as extra hits for bolters on 6's. It is probably as good as any 2 successor traits. Does Kantor still give a +1 attack aura?
More often than you think. Stealthy + Master Artisans is rapidly becoming the de facto standard for Marines, and I expect as it becomes available to other factions they will likewise start rolling it out. Denying IH mechanized forces or Wave Serpent + Flyer hordes a 2+ army wide save is worth the price of admission alone. IFs effectively get 2 bonus AP against permacover armies (as well as blanket denying "while gaining the benefit of cover" abilities). That's huge.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/10/22 14:41:20
2019/10/22 14:42:56
Subject: + Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +
godardc wrote: +5 ? Maybe it's because if my meta, but big squads of gaunts, genestealers, necrons warriors and immortals, even full chaos or cultist squads are pretty common.
In a Marine vs Marine game I can see that being useless though
Thats largely the point. Yeah you'll potentially get it against infantry, but it will never trigger against large targets, or against any faction that isnt running 10-man squads of things. As a result, when compared to an always on ability like the IF prime CT, or a tailored successor chapter, its just not up to snuff.
How often does a knight or a tank get cover though? Not nearly as much as infantry. There is nothing in the successor tree remotely as good as extra hits for bolters on 6's. It is probably as good as any 2 successor traits. Does Kantor still give a +1 attack aura?
How often does a knight or a tank get cover though? Not nearly as much as infantry. There is nothing in the successor tree remotely as good as extra hits for bolters on 6's. It is probably as good as any 2 successor traits. Does Kantor still give a +1 attack aura?
More often than you think. Stealthy + Master Artisans is rapidly becoming the de facto standard for Marines, and I expect as it becomes available to other factions they will likewise start rolling it out. Denying IH mechanized forces or Wave Serpent + Flyer hordes a 2+ army wide save is worth the price of admission alone. IFs effectively get 2 bonus AP against permacover armies (as well as blanket denying "while gaining the benefit of cover" abilities). That's huge.
Yeah - that is a good point. With AP -4 lascannon though...it is almost worthless and very easy to build against. Heck executioners hit at ap-5.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
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Krieg | 
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| Blackshields 