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 Smirrors wrote:
I am thinking of getting a Relic Deredeo as a centre piece for my army with its 5++ aura to give my IH airwing some early protection. With ironstone and duty eternal its only marginally weaker than a leviathan when it gets shot. Worthy idea?

I feel like the planes need that invul against a shooting army otherwise they are pretty fragile. I have seen a few lists run without it so I dont have any practical experience yet.

I may be wrong but I believe the deredeo invul you have to be fully within 6" to get it so it probably wont be able to cover many planes.

That being said I'm really interested in them in IF. Making the autocannons dmg 3 is very nice and you can protect a key unit or 2 with the invul.

Khornatedemon wrote:

 Smirrors wrote:
I am thinking of getting a Relic Deredeo as a centre piece for my army with its 5++ aura to give my IH airwing some early protection. With ironstone and duty eternal its only marginally weaker than a leviathan when it gets shot. Worthy idea?

I feel like the planes need that invul against a shooting army otherwise they are pretty fragile. I have seen a few lists run without it so I dont have any practical experience yet.

I may be wrong but I believe the deredeo invul you have to be fully within 6" to get it so it probably wont be able to cover many planes.

That being said I'm really interested in them in IF. Making the autocannons dmg 3 is very nice and you can protect a key unit or 2 with the invul.

You know what fits in their aura fully? 3 Ven Gun Dreads. I did that and it was buckets of fun.

Pretty sure you can still fit repulsors in it too. I was thinking of an IF gunline based around 2 doritos and a repulsor ex.

So took veteran intercessors tonight in my crimson fist army with Pedro Kantor. Took 9 in repulsor plus Pedro... They were great. 5 attacks each on the charge is insane!

Pedro can't go in a Repulsor though?

Khornatedemon wrote:


I may be wrong but I believe the deredeo invul you have to be fully within 6" to get it so it probably wont be able to cover many planes.

That being said I'm really interested in them in IF. Making the autocannons dmg 3 is very nice and you can protect a key unit or 2 with the invul.

I have done the maths and its not as janky as trying to fit repulsors in the aura :p

6" = 152.4mm

Citadel Oval Base 120mm x92mm

So you can surround the Deredeo with 5 planes quite comfortably and make sure they are pointing in the right direction.

I like the deredeos 36" threat range.

EDIT: I measured and you can comfortably fit 6 planes with room to angle them in a pretty flexible formation. What I plan on doing is make a cardboard deployment sheet so that me and my opponent can see exactly how far his aura goes. Will also allow me to tactically deploy and angle the planes based on terrain and enemy types.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Pedro can't go in a Repulsor though?

Repulsor can only transport primaris

 Smirrors wrote:

Khornatedemon wrote:


I may be wrong but I believe the deredeo invul you have to be fully within 6" to get it so it probably wont be able to cover many planes.

That being said I'm really interested in them in IF. Making the autocannons dmg 3 is very nice and you can protect a key unit or 2 with the invul.

I have done the maths and its not as janky as trying to fit repulsors in the aura :p

6" = 152.4mm

Citadel Oval Base 120mm x92mm

So you can surround the Deredeo with 5 planes quite comfortably and make sure they are pointing in the right direction.

I like the deredeos 36" threat range.

EDIT: I measured and you can comfortably fit 6 planes with room to angle them in a pretty flexible formation. What I plan on doing is make a cardboard deployment sheet so that me and my opponent can see exactly how far his aura goes. Will also allow me to tactically deploy and angle the planes based on terrain and enemy types.

Didn't Flyers get FAQ'd that the whole model counts for thing's suck as no overhanging board edges no overlapping position etc.

I really hope CA nerfs flyers out the game as they are going to get so much stuff that's not a problem 99% of the time nerfed and the flyers still be a problem.

I think that was for things that measure to the hull, so like repulsors, but I could be wrong. Also it was to prevent models hanging off the board.

Yeah I think a rule of 3 for flyers would be absolutely better for the game.

Just a quick question regarding captain sicarius and his warlord trait. Just looking at the rules again and from my understanding, we’re he to roll an Unmodified 6 to wound with his sword it would cause d3+1 mortal wounds yes?

No wolves on Fenris wrote:
Just a quick question regarding captain sicarius and his warlord trait. Just looking at the rules again and from my understanding, we’re he to roll an Unmodified 6 to wound with his sword it would cause d3+1 mortal wounds yes?

Yes. His sword does d3 on a 6 and his WL trait does 1. d3 +1.

Sterling191 wrote:

Rakdarian wrote:
For those of you wondering relentless determination thanks to the fight again faq allows you to disembark after moving .

It wont. Relentless determination is played at the end of the Movement phase. You cannot disembark, or move at that point. (its the reason you cant move after getting dumped out of a drop pod, and why the pod needs special wording to let its cargo out after it lands for instance.).

Actually the reason you cannot disembark and move at the end of the movement phase is because theres a special rule taht says after deepstriking you cant make any movement except for charges.

Without that you would have been able to move after deepstriking

Have you tried an ironclad ? It's quite cheap and resilient / resistant with easy ways to increase it, it benefits from the bolter rule and many CT/super doctrines, and hit very strongly. If only it moved more or could go in a pod...

 godardc wrote:
Have you tried an ironclad ? It's quite cheap and resilient / resistant with easy ways to increase it, it benefits from the bolter rule and many CT/super doctrines, and hit very strongly. If only it moved more or could go in a pod...

It can go in a pod that costs 85 points

So 2 things I've noticed recently which may have been covered already...

Chaplains with the crozius relic and the mantra of strength become combat beasts! St 7 with 6 attacks first round of combat at ST 7 flat 4 damage that's pretty terrifying.

Also Imperial fist las fusils are flat 4 damage and minus 4 ap! Stick the tank Hunter strat on them for +1 to wound a vehicle and they are very hard to shift from cover and hard hitting against vehicles for relatively low cost.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
So 2 things I've noticed recently which may have been covered already...

Chaplains with the crozius relic and the mantra of strength become combat beasts! St 7 with 6 attacks first round of combat at ST 7 flat 4 damage that's pretty terrifying.

Also Imperial fist las fusils are flat 4 damage and minus 4 ap! Stick the tank Hunter strat on them for +1 to wound a vehicle and they are very hard to shift from cover and hard hitting against vehicles for relatively low cost.

Few issues with that Las fusil suggestion. Firstly, the sniper rifles provide such a great value that they're worth using just for their specific role. It's hard to give up str 5 character targetting bolt weapons for Fists, especially since their capabilities do not rely on the doctrine. After all, those las fusils are going to still be 3 damage against Tau, Nids, and infantry heavy armies like daemons, GSC, Orks, etc. where you might actually prefer the ability to put some wounds on characters.

But given how the meta is shaking up to be Iron Hands all day, every day, I imagine those las fusils will see use in every single game.

Though I'd not suggest using Tank Hunters on a unit like Las fusils routinely. There's too few shots to make it truly worthwhile, I think. Better to throw that stratagem on something that has trouble wounding, but will drown the target in buckets of dice.

Once again, heavy bolter Centurions seem a pretty decent fit for that stratagem. What can't these guys do? (Trick question: they cannot look cool)

And point for point IF eliminators with sniper rifle isnt that far behind the las fusils against vehicle with good invulnerable save. They benefit from exploding 6s, cause mortal wounds and they do d3+1 damage. And when not firing against vehicles the ignore cover CT is great on them.

I think IF are the chapter that benefit the least from Las Fusil over just sniper rifles. Not that Las Fusil isnt good but the sniper rifles are just so much better

Rakdarian wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:

Rakdarian wrote:
For those of you wondering relentless determination thanks to the fight again faq allows you to disembark after moving .

It wont. Relentless determination is played at the end of the Movement phase. You cannot disembark, or move at that point. (its the reason you cant move after getting dumped out of a drop pod, and why the pod needs special wording to let its cargo out after it lands for instance.).

Actually the reason you cannot disembark and move at the end of the movement phase is because theres a special rule taht says after deepstriking you cant make any movement except for charges.

Without that you would have been able to move after deepstriking

It has nothing to do with deepstriking. It has to do with the fact that disembarking occurs during the movement phase, and the stratagem is played at the end of the phase.

Rakdarian wrote:

Actually the reason you cannot disembark and move at the end of the movement phase is because theres a special rule taht says after deepstriking you cant make any movement except for charges.

Without that you would have been able to move after deepstriking

Incorrect. Movement occurs during the movement phase. Drop pods appear at the end of the movement phase. To move, the contained units would have to then move *after* the end of the movement phase, which is A) not a part of the movement phase, B) isnt an actual thing in 8th, and C) the reason podded units cant move the same turn they dropped.

Special rules prevent external abilities (psyker powers, strats, etc) from moving deepstruck units in later phases of the same turn they came in.

Gutted Pedro can't go on the repulsor that's very annoying, was such a great combo. I suppose I could just footslog them all forward though.

Building different seat sizes within your transport is heresy.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Gutted Pedro can't go on the repulsor that's very annoying, was such a great combo. I suppose I could just footslog them all forward though.

Honestly, considering how good the Primaris Transports are, I just don't understand the rule preventing regular Marines from riding. Wouldn't they want people dropping $75-$80 on a transport? It seems more likely than expecting people to buy transports and things to transport.

I guess Pedro is just going to have to March with my Aggressors up the field.

When is it more advantageous to take a predator autocannon rather than the twin linked lascannons ? Seeing as it is the same price now

 godardc wrote:
When is it more advantageous to take a predator autocannon rather than the twin linked lascannons ? Seeing as it is the same price now

I would think Imperial Fists should always take Autocannons on their Predators. Str 7 AP-2 4D is quite nice. And it has the shot count to be useful against other stuff too.

So looking through the imperial fist and salamander codexes and I have to say.... I feel the imperial fist one isn't as good per say. What I mean is, what makes imperial fists good is their super doctrine and chapter tactics. Their strats and relics seem ok by themselves (I am not taking vigilus defiant into account because anyone who expects that broken combo to stick around post faq is probably going to be upset) but without their 2 basic abilities they don't have a lot going on.

Salamanders on the other hand have quite a few things going on. For example, take a captain on bike, make him your warlord, give him your 2nd warlord trait, give him +2 str and +2 toughness traits, a thunder hammer, a storm shield, and you have a guy who is cheaper than a deamon prince putting out str 12 hits at toughness 7. Cast might of heros on him and bam, str 14 hits and t8..... he is tougher than a predator tank!

Librarian is no slouch either. Give him the relic book to take a power from the salamanders and he can have null zone, might of heros, and burning hands making him a tactical support unit that can also actually kill things in cc.

Aggressors are a no brainer, but multimelta dev teams in drop pods with vulcan are pretty terrifying to think about now.

I see all this and look at imperial fists and don't get the same feeling from its options. Am I missing something?

I would suggest that the Imperial Fists are simpler in execution. They make heavy bolter spam viable, where you can handle hordes and vehicles with the same basic weapon. They also do the gun-line pretty well. You can throw Repulsors or Impulsors forward as your screen, then throw the -2 charge range psychic power on them for a -4 to charge rolls. Their fliers will also be useful in the current meta since they do twice as much damage to other fliers as other space marine fliers do. Iron Hands fliers are one of the stronger elements to the army post FAQ.

I also think that Imperial Fists will be somewhat dull to play. That's my opinion though, and others will have their own.

Imperial Fists seem to be the offensive focused marines. Their best abilities are focused on increasing their damage output with ranged weapons. They don't seem to have a lot of defensive tech like Iron Hands or "tricks" like Raven Guard or White Scars.

What they do is rather straight forward, and they are good at it. I do think Imperial Fists will do VERY well on tables with little to no LOS blocking terrain.

I think you may be cutting IF short on defensive abilities. Two +1 to save stratagems, one 6++ stratagem, one ignore rend -1 warlord trait aura, plus two very good tank warlord traits.

What do you think of heavy Hellblasters? With damage 3, tank hunters and rerolls they are respectable anti tank putting 12 wounds on a t8 no invul vehicle.

I discovered a pointless but fun combo, too.
An Eliminator sergeant shooting executioner rounds with the Gatebreaker bolts special issue wargear: no shots lost, hit on 2+ against almost anything, S5, 1d3 wound rolls, ap -5. Nice or not?

Edit: more cheeky IF tactics.Forward deployed Scouts move within 6 of the enemy first turn and throw 5 Krak grenades (through stratagem) at a light tank/light monster/heavy infantry squad, benefiting from -1ap of Devastator doctrine. A legit threat?

Also, a better use of the Close range fire stratagem is to shoot from outside a combat to support a tarpit, I think. Pistol 6 assault Bolters from 18 or pistol 6 Autobot gauntlets + charge afterwards sound both useful.

So, as a heads up magnetizing the impulsoris gonna be pretty easy. even an amataur modeler who doesn't like to cut anything up should be able to get magnets set up allowing for him to thake the shield dome (or comm array) or the missile launcher or icarus array.

as the gun mount/missle launcher is on one mount, and the other two are on another mount... so yeaaah. magnetizing is easy (to a degree where I suspect the designer intended to make it easy)

Can I check something from you all? I think I need the Imperial Fists book but am not certain. Black Templars are an Imperial Fists successor, so I assume they get the Imperial Fists super-doctrine, access to relics, etc?

There is no special exclusion for Black Templars, is there?

Maybe that will change if Black templars get their rumoured box set release, but for now, is that right?