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Tested my Astraeus finally (IH) against a triptide list itc format, rolled well for sure but my list was solid and he gave up turn 3 ahead on points(9-6) but losing units faster and faster with less and less options to score while i still had multiple characters, an untouched astraeus and quad las contemptor, smash cap and scout squad.

Overall the Big Ass is a nice option, but maybe an auto lose against lists that can get 1st turn and deal enough to kill it turn1.

Still fun to use.

Vilehydra wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
If I have the choice to spam either infiltrators or incursors, which one is likely to be generally more useful? I had thought mass infiltrators with communications arrays would well as long as I had the appropriate characters on the board. However, a sample vanguard list that GW had on their site a while back used a larger number of incursors. I feel that the mines and modifier ignoring are too situational, but am I wrong?

Chapter is probably Iron Hands. I know that won't synergise with either, but let's go with it for now.

While you shouldn't want to spam either of them (They are pricy troops and better used supplementally) I'd probably go for infiltrators. There are just some match-ups that marines can nearly auto-win with properly deployed infiltrators. Incursors have some okay CC potential with the dual combat blades but its not worth the utility of just having a hard counter to melee heavy deepstrike lists (Blood letter bombs, GSC Ambush, RG/WS Assault Centurions, etc.)

I want to spam them because incursfiltrators are cool and the cheap units are lame

I do think that it would be fun to completely mess with someone's deep striking.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:

I keep hearing buzz about combining the Incursor paired combat blades with Gene-Wrought Might and/or Whirlwind of Rage, but I’m not sure how those would interact and I’ve never seen anybody actually try it. You still have to come up with the 6’s on your dice either way.

It seems to me like the points and abilities are pretty well balanced across all three primaris troop choices, so nothing feels like a clear standout in terms of value for cost and whichever you choose is going to be some kind of tradeoff. So maybe a take a mix?

I would say, though, that 10 points feels like a lot to spend for rerolling 1s on a unit that doesn’t have a lot of shots to begin with, especially if you’re buying comms for a bunch of 5-man Infiltrator units rather than one or two 10-man.

The incursors' mêlée buff doesn't really seem like it would help that much to me, whereas re-rolling all the 1s feels like it would be a nice boost. I see what you mean about the added cost of supplying every 5-man squad with an array though - I don't think that I had fully considered that.

Thank you both for the advice

I am sad. Crusader squads can no longer take both special and heavy at a squad size of five :(

 Fifty wrote:
I am sad. Crusader squads can no longer take both special and heavy at a squad size of five :(

Why would anyone be sad about that? It was silly that THE melee Chapter could get better special/heavy weapon saturation than anyone else and then on top of that had a bonus 3" aura for your custom Chapter Master.

Because you could take a power weapon instead of the heavy weapon, and have special weapon, combi-weapon and two power weapons in the same five man squad, but now you can get only three of those four.

No idea whether that was considered a good option, but I liked it and now I can't do it.

:( :( :(

As has been suggested, it appears that Chapter Approved doesn't do anything to Space Marines. I won't believe it until the FAQ comes out though.

Well, it make you decide whether to gamble jumping on the Chaplain Dreadnought bandwagon or guess that it will get it's points cost reverted and/or Legend status like it should...

Love how even when it's not a separate FW team doing the rules anymore it's still always FW units that have issues.

So, I started a decently-sized collection of space marines back in 6th-7th edition.
At this point, with the ongoing Primaris rollout, and the increasingly confusing setup of the books (to me at least) i was wondering if someone might be able to help guide me regarding what chapter might work best considering the models I have, with maybe a small purchase here or there to round it out. I'm looking for advice so I can find a decent way to play my marines, since they have a good paint job, and my own custom fluff. (Paint Job is Silver/Red, so I'm not locked into anything)

What I have available to me at this point is -


Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, I started a decently-sized collection of space marines back in 6th-7th edition.
At this point, with the ongoing Primaris rollout, and the increasingly confusing setup of the books (to me at least) i was wondering if someone might be able to help guide me regarding what chapter might work best considering the models I have, with maybe a small purchase here or there to round it out. I'm looking for advice so I can find a decent way to play my marines, since they have a good paint job, and my own custom fluff. (Paint Job is Silver/Red, so I'm not locked into anything)

What I have available to me at this point is -

Spoiler:

HQs
Captain
Lieutenant

Troops
30 Tactical Marines (Couple Missile Launchers in here)
Scout Snipers
10 Intercessors


Elites
20 Sternguard Veterans
2 Venerable Dreadnoughts
Terminator Assault Squad


FA
1 Squad of Marine Bikers with Plasma/Power Weapons


HS
3 Predator Tanks with Las/Autocannon
Land Raider Crusader
Devastator Squad
5 Hellblasters
2 Thunderfire Cannons with Crew


DT
3 Razorbacks with Twin Assault Cannons
6 Drop Pods

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

Depends on your style of play really, the new books have opened up a lot of different styles.
Regardless of chapter you'll want to get a librarian and a chaplain. I prefer mine kitted out with jump packs, but that's because I have an aggressive play style and they need to keep up and be on the board. More static styles can get away with standard/primaris variations. Also scouts, I'd recommend going up to three squads of 5 with no upgrades. I have won several games just because the scouts screened T1 charges. They are your speed bumps.

Iron Hands works well with what you have. Give the intercessors the stalker bolt-rifles. Ignore heavy and RR1s will work with almost your entire army and give the bigger vehicles a couple extra wounds.
Imperial fists aren't too bad either if you just want to bolt spam. (give razors HBs, give tacs HBs, Give devs HBs)

Given what you have those two seem the best setup. Really does depends on your playstyle though.

Since mentioning Intercessor loadouts, do many opponents care if you have the correct gun type modeled? I tend to proxy wargear a lot already for casual games, but would a tourney care that you don’t have the Stalker scopes or the auto drums? Most people I see run the cheap ones from the set which are stuck with the rifle option and now the ideal tends to be auto or stalker. I mean, technically they could complain they aren’t correct, but does anyone care enough to look closely that it’s a Stalker scope vs the decorative scope?

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, I started a decently-sized collection of space marines back in 6th-7th edition.
At this point, with the ongoing Primaris rollout, and the increasingly confusing setup of the books (to me at least) i was wondering if someone might be able to help guide me regarding what chapter might work best considering the models I have, with maybe a small purchase here or there to round it out. I'm looking for advice so I can find a decent way to play my marines, since they have a good paint job, and my own custom fluff. (Paint Job is Silver/Red, so I'm not locked into anything)

What I have available to me at this point is -

Spoiler:

HQs
Captain
Lieutenant

Troops
30 Tactical Marines (Couple Missile Launchers in here)
Scout Snipers
10 Intercessors


Elites
20 Sternguard Veterans
2 Venerable Dreadnoughts
Terminator Assault Squad


FA
1 Squad of Marine Bikers with Plasma/Power Weapons


HS
3 Predator Tanks with Las/Autocannon
Land Raider Crusader
Devastator Squad
5 Hellblasters
2 Thunderfire Cannons with Crew


DT
3 Razorbacks with Twin Assault Cannons
6 Drop Pods

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

when in doubt, Ultramarines. they're one of the most flexable chapters right now (and remember a sucessor chapter can use the "design your own CTs" rules) so if you're not sure how you wanna play they're a good pick

bort wrote:
Since mentioning Intercessor loadouts, do many opponents care if you have the correct gun type modeled? I tend to proxy wargear a lot already for casual games, but would a tourney care that you don’t have the Stalker scopes or the auto drums? Most people I see run the cheap ones from the set which are stuck with the rifle option and now the ideal tends to be auto or stalker. I mean, technically they could complain they aren’t correct, but does anyone care enough to look closely that it’s a Stalker scope vs the decorative scope?

In casual games no one should care but I know of tournies starting to enforce bolter types. So ultimately it will be dependent on the TO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone started testing the techmarine master of the forge and +1 to hit for vehicles. Looks to be autopick for vehicle heavy lists.

It appears OP atm so I am waiting for the FAQ to come out which is just as likely to nerf it to one vehicle.

Ideally it would go on techmarine on bike but I am guessing this will be legended sadly.

I've been trying to come up with a broken list using that as Iron Hands successors with Stealthy + Round up on the damage table trait. It would be pretty fething ridiculous.

 Smirrors wrote:

bort wrote:
Since mentioning Intercessor loadouts, do many opponents care if you have the correct gun type modeled? I tend to proxy wargear a lot already for casual games, but would a tourney care that you don’t have the Stalker scopes or the auto drums? Most people I see run the cheap ones from the set which are stuck with the rifle option and now the ideal tends to be auto or stalker. I mean, technically they could complain they aren’t correct, but does anyone care enough to look closely that it’s a Stalker scope vs the decorative scope?

In casual games no one should care but I know of tournies starting to enforce bolter types. So ultimately it will be dependent on the TO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone started testing the techmarine master of the forge and +1 to hit for vehicles. Looks to be autopick for vehicle heavy lists.

It appears OP atm so I am waiting for the FAQ to come out which is just as likely to nerf it to one vehicle.

Ideally it would go on techmarine on bike but I am guessing this will be legended sadly.

I've had three games using the forge father with +1 to hit. I'm running Iron Hands with three redemptors and an invictor with a bunch of infantry. Nothing meta competitive, but fun and cool to play while not being bad by any stretch. The +1 to hit is SUPER good. Like SUUUUPER good. All those vehicles are hitting on 2s on the move re-rolling 1s on top of being Iron hands with all that entails. Running my tech marine as a conversion of Feirros as a generic tech marine and counting him as being on a bike. For 27 points it's worth the upgrade IMO. Goes a long way in protecting him from snipers and adding mobility.

I could see the warlord trait being nerfed to select one unit to get +1 to hit which would make me sad, but I could see the reasoning for it.

 godardc wrote:

Kdash wrote:
FAQs are out -

Sallies
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/d4999d16.pdf

Fists
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ded8a1f1.pdf

Big nerfs to Self Sacrifice and Siegebreaker Cohort.

Well, not a surprise, Waac raw lost again. Now that everything is settling down I'm curious to see what Salamanders armies will look like

Them changing Self Sacrifice because it made your entire army untargeteable is actually a RAW win, Since that was the RAW argument and in recognizing that they changed it


Fires of battle nerf is not good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

COLD CASH wrote:
Tested my Astraeus finally (IH) against a triptide list itc format, rolled well for sure but my list was solid and he gave up turn 3 ahead on points(9-6) but losing units faster and faster with less and less options to score while i still had multiple characters, an untouched astraeus and quad las contemptor, smash cap and scout squad.

Overall the Big Ass is a nice option, but maybe an auto lose against lists that can get 1st turn and deal enough to kill it turn1.

Still fun to use.

Big Ass is amazing and with the 100 pt buff i cant wait to play it as successors and have a perpetual 4+ void shield and psysteel up to 3+. ITs a fun unit


Automatically Appended Next Post:

bort wrote:
Well, it make you decide whether to gamble jumping on the Chaplain Dreadnought bandwagon or guess that it will get it's points cost reverted and/or Legend status like it should...

Love how even when it's not a separate FW team doing the rules anymore it's still always FW units that have issues.

With the legends update making one of my favorite models obsolete, techmarine with covnersion beamer, im pretty mad about it.

unless you play tournies I'd not worry too much about legends, especially if your group knows this is a favorite conversion of yours I can't imagine them telling you you can't use it

Quick question. If I give a Intercessors sarge with a stalker bolt rifle a power fist does he lose the stalker bolt rifle.

yellowfever wrote:
Quick question. If I give a Intercessors sarge with a stalker bolt rifle a power fist does he lose the stalker bolt rifle.

He keeps it.

Awesome, my brother was right, thanks for the quick answer.

bort wrote:
Well, it make you decide whether to gamble jumping on the Chaplain Dreadnought bandwagon or guess that it will get it's points cost reverted and/or Legend status like it should...

Love how even when it's not a separate FW team doing the rules anymore it's still always FW units that have issues.

It's already auto include at 192 points with lascannons. Points drop just makes it more auto include.

BrianDavion wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
So, I started a decently-sized collection of space marines back in 6th-7th edition.
At this point, with the ongoing Primaris rollout, and the increasingly confusing setup of the books (to me at least) i was wondering if someone might be able to help guide me regarding what chapter might work best considering the models I have, with maybe a small purchase here or there to round it out. I'm looking for advice so I can find a decent way to play my marines, since they have a good paint job, and my own custom fluff. (Paint Job is Silver/Red, so I'm not locked into anything)

What I have available to me at this point is -

Spoiler:

HQs
Captain
Lieutenant

Troops
30 Tactical Marines (Couple Missile Launchers in here)
Scout Snipers
10 Intercessors


Elites
20 Sternguard Veterans
2 Venerable Dreadnoughts
Terminator Assault Squad


FA
1 Squad of Marine Bikers with Plasma/Power Weapons


HS
3 Predator Tanks with Las/Autocannon
Land Raider Crusader
Devastator Squad
5 Hellblasters
2 Thunderfire Cannons with Crew


DT
3 Razorbacks with Twin Assault Cannons
6 Drop Pods

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

when in doubt, Ultramarines. they're one of the most flexable chapters right now (and remember a sucessor chapter can use the "design your own CTs" rules) so if you're not sure how you wanna play they're a good pick

Honestly, Iron hands is the best just whatever chapter not thinking about it. Ultramarines have to really lean into intercessors and aggressors to work, of which there are none in this list of models. Go Iron Hands or Imperial Fists.

Just impulse bought a Sicaran Battle Tank, and while I might use it in my Iron Warriors collection, I was wondering what Loyalist chapter might be a good fit.

I am tempted to do Ultras. I am avoiding Iron Hands. Any particular Chapter tactic/strat that benefits a Sicaran?

They naturally ignore cover already right? For a shooting platform like that you can't go wrong with Ultramarines or Raven Guard.

Is everyone using aggressors?? I think they are absolutely incredible. Used them at a tournament at the weekend and every time I got first time i put them as far forward as possible then obviously moved and advanced and was still able to fire at close range targets.
I play crimson fists so get exploding sixes for bolt weapons, not only that but use boltstorm from the IF codex and each hit then counts as an extra 2 hits! I've been activating this turn 2 when I'm in tactical doctrine and then firing into juicy enemy targets. With that volume of ap-1 fire I've found that pretty much any unit is wiped out in one turn of shooting.

Another thing in their favour is high toughness and 3 wounds! And finally to top it off dual power fists with 4 attacks each on the first round of combat (5 for the sergeant and another one of within 6 of Pedro Kantor!) They are a bonkers unit and I'm amazed when people don't take them.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Is everyone using aggressors?? I think they are absolutely incredible. Used them at a tournament at the weekend and every time I got first time i put them as far forward as possible then obviously moved and advanced and was still able to fire at close range targets.
I play crimson fists so get exploding sixes for bolt weapons, not only that but use boltstorm from the IF codex and each hit then counts as an extra 2 hits! I've been activating this turn 2 when I'm in tactical doctrine and then firing into juicy enemy targets. With that volume of ap-1 fire I've found that pretty much any unit is wiped out in one turn of shooting.

Another thing in their favour is high toughness and 3 wounds! And finally to top it off dual power fists with 4 attacks each on the first round of combat (5 for the sergeant and another one of within 6 of Pedro Kantor!) They are a bonkers unit and I'm amazed when people don't take them.

In my last game I dropped them from deepstrike and killed a full squad of ork lootas. Charged 9" to a weirdboy, actually tried to reroll my 6 on the charge roll so I could fail it, because realised it took me too close to boys and ork hq blob, well with my luck I rerolled my 6 to a 6. Well my master-crafted sergeant boltstorm gauntlet killed the weirdboy and my unit sustained a lot of ork attacks, think 3-4 died from 100+ attacks.

I used a RG successor with bolter fusillades and ranged marksmen and yeah, those combo nicely. If I would have gotten first turn I would have used master of ambush instead of strike from the shadows (deepstrike strat). Against orks my 2 damage boltstorm gauntlet didn't show it's teeth yet, so still need to experience if it's worth it on the sergeant.

..but yeah they are fun. I don't do centurion's.

Aggressors are awesome as White Scars too. Getting off that many shots and still having the ability to charge is pretty tasty.

I run centurions + apothecary in my ravenguard force. Give the apothecary the 2nd warlord trait to deploy him and the centurions forward then sit back and watch the sparks fly. Extra points if you make the apothecary be able to heal twice and get the relic for 5++ bubble.

Azuza001 wrote:
I run centurions + apothecary in my ravenguard force. Give the apothecary the 2nd warlord trait to deploy him and the centurions forward then sit back and watch the sparks fly. Extra points if you make the apothecary be able to heal twice and get the relic for 5++ bubble.

Centurions are not going to use a 5++ for the most part so I'd call that wasted. Now if you used the Warlord Trait that gave the 6+++, that's a different story.

Cant use the warlord trait, the model already has a warlord trait to allow the deep strike. Well, you could, but it's not a good idea in my opinion to make the apothecary the true warlord and double stack traits on him like that.

Also the 5++ could come up. Some enemy units have AP-4 weapons or greater. For example, multimeltas, knights with their cc weapons (other than feet), harlequins with fusion pistols, fire dragons, marine las cannons in dev doctrine. It can make its self known, even if it's not likely.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Is everyone using aggressors?? I think they are absolutely incredible. Used them at a tournament at the weekend and every time I got first time i put them as far forward as possible then obviously moved and advanced and was still able to fire at close range targets.
I play crimson fists so get exploding sixes for bolt weapons, not only that but use boltstorm from the IF codex and each hit then counts as an extra 2 hits! I've been activating this turn 2 when I'm in tactical doctrine and then firing into juicy enemy targets. With that volume of ap-1 fire I've found that pretty much any unit is wiped out in one turn of shooting.

Another thing in their favour is high toughness and 3 wounds! And finally to top it off dual power fists with 4 attacks each on the first round of combat (5 for the sergeant and another one of within 6 of Pedro Kantor!) They are a bonkers unit and I'm amazed when people don't take them.

Aggressors are essentially the poor man's assault centurions. Both units are great with the new codex. Centurions are tougher and hit harder but aggressors are more mobile and around two thirds the price of a centurion with hurricanes.

If you want a unit that butchers infantry with its shooting and hits hard in melee then both are great options.