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Made in gb
Stalwart Tribune




TLDR: Any model can consolidate into an aircraft unit, they won't do anything in normal instances. However in the case RAW with this rule, the aircraft will die on a 4+.
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





balmong7 wrote:


But the aircraft rule was introduced after they changed it. They introduced the "movement phase only" specific stuff when they changed fly. A bunch of people got mad about fly, so it was granted a special exception.


What does that matter? People are saying the addition to the movement phase words in the FAQ don't apply outside the movement phase. FLY is in the movement section, and first applied outside the movement phase. Then it didn't due to a FAQ, The FAQ then backtracked and its back to how it was before.. working outside the movement phase.

And if they introduced the Aircraft specific stuff after they did everything else, then even more so Any Kind Of Move would take the not Movement Phase only thing into consideration and it didn't specify Movement Phase Only.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ThatMG wrote:
TLDR: Any model can consolidate into an aircraft unit, they won't do anything in normal instances. However in the case RAW with this rule, the aircraft will die on a 4+.


Wrong - RAW they can't charge. pile in, consolidate or otherwise move within 1" of an AIRCRAFT. IF the Aircraft moves within 1" of a model with this rule, they MAY be stuck and die on a 4+


There's another quote - unfortunately partial so I'll have to look up the rest that says In the movement phase models with fly can move over other models as if they're not there, meaning they don't even need to fall back unless there's more context.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/19 12:53:15


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Breton wrote:


Wrong - RAW they can't charge. pile in, consolidate or otherwise move within 1" of an AIRCRAFT. IF the Aircraft moves within 1" of a model with this rule, they MAY be stuck and die on a 4+


Wrong. RAW any unit can pile in and consolidate within 1" of an AIRCRAFT. True, only units with FLY can charge an AIRCRAFT.

And btw, an AIRCRAFT can pile in and consolidate as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/19 15:51:59


 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




The aircraft would have to fall back if it were charged by a model with fly and could potentially be destroyed if said model had the master of snares trait.

That said, I'm of the opinion that RAW the only way to get within an inch of an aircraft is by charging it, for which you need to have the fly keyword. Even if you had fly, you could still not get within an inch of an aircraft model through pile-ins / consolidations or heroic interventions. And it appears that's I''m not the only one who thinks so...

https://spikeybits.com/2019/08/3-new-insane-space-marine-combos-to-watch-out-for.html

Anyone seriously suggesting you could explode an aircraft using a white scars captain on a bike with master of snares is simply using RAHWTB (rules as he wishes they'd be).

Let's use common sense here... they released an FAQ to prevent the use of flyers as move blockers because it doesn't make any sense from a fluff perspective and now some pple defend the view said FAQ intends to tackle...

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Breton - fly applies outside because it specifies it does

The aircraft rule doesn't specify, so it doesn't.
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




So the model gains a keyword but only during the movement phase... yeah, that does make sense...
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





eparedes0785 wrote:
So the model gains a keyword but only during the movement phase... yeah, that does make sense...


No, it gains the keyword, and the Keyword only applies when it specifies. It doesn't disappear in a different phase, it just doesn't apply.

Also, why do you believe Pile Ins and Consolidations wouldn't allow getting within an inch? They explicitly state you must move towards the closest enemy model and you must end closer to it.

PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Why were models with the FLY keyword also flying in the fight phase at the beginning of the edition? Fly sits in the movement phase... and the rules did not specify anything about any other phases... also, following the spirit of the FAQ you are now choosing to ignore...

"whilst the rules are very clear on the matter, it does feel contrary to, and disconnected from the narrative’. We agree; after all, the aircraft employing this tactic, whilst right in front of the enemy units are in fact imagined to be soaring high above the battlefield, not skimming over the surface.

How on earth is a model on a motorbike pile-in within an inch of an aircraft? It doesn't make sense from a narrative perspective
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade





eparedes0785 wrote:
Why were models with the FLY keyword also flying in the fight phase at the beginning of the edition? Fly sits in the movement phase... and the rules did not specify anything about any other phases... also, following the spirit of the FAQ you are now choosing to ignore...

"whilst the rules are very clear on the matter, it does feel contrary to, and disconnected from the narrative’. We agree; after all, the aircraft employing this tactic, whilst right in front of the enemy units are in fact imagined to be soaring high above the battlefield, not skimming over the surface.

How on earth is a model on a motorbike pile-in within an inch of an aircraft? It doesn't make sense from a narrative perspective


He obviously took a sweet jump off of a ruined platform and fistbumped the planes underside with his snare. -shrug-

Also, Fly never worked in the Fight Phase. It worked in the Charge Phase. And then it was fixed. But was Faq'd and extra clarification added in FAQs about when it works.

Complete honesty. I could see this going either way, but we won't know until the SM:WS Errata/FAQ. Because it is a pretty big deal to kill a plane on a 4+ by just being near it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/19 21:23:12


PourSpelur wrote:
It's fully within the rules for me to look up your Facebook page, find out your dear Mother Gladys is single, take her on a lovely date, and tell you all the details of our hot, sweaty, animal sex during your psychic phase.
I mean, fifty bucks is on the line.
There's no rule that says I can't.
Hive Fleet Hercual - 6760pts
Hazaak Dynasty - 3400 pts
Seraphon - 4600pts
 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





 p5freak wrote:
Breton wrote:


Wrong - RAW they can't charge. pile in, consolidate or otherwise move within 1" of an AIRCRAFT. IF the Aircraft moves within 1" of a model with this rule, they MAY be stuck and die on a 4+


Wrong. RAW any unit can pile in and consolidate within 1" of an AIRCRAFT. True, only units with FLY can charge an AIRCRAFT.

And btw, an AIRCRAFT can pile in and consolidate as well.


Wrong. It specifically states in the Aircraft FAQ you can't move withint 1" of an AIRCRAFT with ANY KIND OF MOVE. You're welcome to say its RAI, but no, you can't say it's RAW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Carnikang wrote:
eparedes0785 wrote:
So the model gains a keyword but only during the movement phase... yeah, that does make sense...


No, it gains the keyword, and the Keyword only applies when it specifies. It doesn't disappear in a different phase, it just doesn't apply.

Also, why do you believe Pile Ins and Consolidations wouldn't allow getting within an inch? They explicitly state you must move towards the closest enemy model and you must end closer to it.


Because the AIRCRAFT part of the BRB FAQ says you can't get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT with "any kind of move".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Breton - fly applies outside because it specifies it does

The aircraft rule doesn't specify, so it doesn't.


It doesn't specify it doesn't, so it does. It doesn't say "any kind of move...." IN THE MOVEMENT PHASE. It says ANY KIND OF MOVE. Period. End of Sentence. I would absolutely bet that this isn't what they intended. I also absolutely believe crashing a fighter jet at several thousand feet of altitude with a bear trap wasn't what they intended either. Which is why if someone required I play that RAW, I'd require we play this RAW, and they can't get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT.

Also we've been getting a little lazy - but the strict reading says they CAN get within 1", they just cant END within 1" of any enemy units.

Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be
moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they
were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move
within 1" of any enemy units.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/20 04:27:11


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Yes, you can't get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT in the movement phase.

Page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement phase section: .......


You can get with 1" of an AIRCRAFT in any other phase and end your movement there (the fight phase is not the movement phase), except the charge phase, unless you have FLY.

It doesn't matter whether you like it or not, or it doesnt make narrative sense, the rules are the rules. House rule it if you want to. But the RAW is clear.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/20 05:32:09


 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





 p5freak wrote:
You can't get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT in the movement phase.


You can get within 1" of Aircraft in any phase, but you can't end within 1" of Aircraft in any phase with any kind of move.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine



Manchester, UK

Breton wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
You can't get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT in the movement phase.


You can get within 1" of Aircraft in any phase, but you can't end within 1" of Aircraft in any phase with any kind of move.


The Rule you are quoting is in the movement phase. It states it in the BRB FAQ you are quoting to people. Why are you ignoring this?
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dadavester wrote:
Breton wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
You can't get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT in the movement phase.


You can get within 1" of Aircraft in any phase, but you can't end within 1" of Aircraft in any phase with any kind of move.


The Rule you are quoting is in the movement phase. It states it in the BRB FAQ you are quoting to people. Why are you ignoring this?


Because it doesn't say In The movement phase for the rule I'm quoting, while it DOES specifically call out In The Movement phase just a short while later? Because there are lots of locations where a rule is in one section, but refers to or applies to another seciodn. I suppose you could cut and paste "in the movement phase" up a paragraph, but if we start doing that to all the rules they're going to start getting silly. But mostly because if people are going to be strictly literal to force the use the snare on an Aircraft, I'm going to be strictly literal to prohibit it. I will absolutely concede snare will cause an Aircraft to crash based on the strictly literal reading of the rule, and I will apply that same strictly literal reading of the rules to prohibit you from using that snare in the first place. The rules for Invulnerable saves, Mortal Wounds, and Ignoring Wounds are in the section for shooting attacks. Do invulnerable saves, Mortal Wounds, and Ignoring Wounds not work in the Fight Phase? The rules for Transports follow the rules for the Morale Phase. I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks that means for embarking and disembarking.

The very next paragraph starts with:
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase,


THAT rule is limited to the movement phase.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If you're going to say the rules as written say some dude on a bike in total weighing half a ton or less can ensnare an aircraft - flying at 25,000 feet with tons and tons of thrust - with a bola, you have to also admit the rules state you can't end any kind of move within 1" of an Aircraft - and doesn't differentiate between phases.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/08/20 10:54:14


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine



Manchester, UK

Breton wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dadavester wrote:
Breton wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
You can't get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT in the movement phase.


You can get within 1" of Aircraft in any phase, but you can't end within 1" of Aircraft in any phase with any kind of move.


The Rule you are quoting is in the movement phase. It states it in the BRB FAQ you are quoting to people. Why are you ignoring this?


Because it doesn't say In The movement phase for the rule I'm quoting, while it DOES specifically call out In The Movement phase just a short while later? Because there are lots of locations where a rule is in one section, but refers to or applies to another seciodn. I suppose you could cut and paste "in the movement phase" up a paragraph, but if we start doing that to all the rules they're going to start getting silly. But mostly because if people are going to be strictly literal to force the use the snare on an Aircraft, I'm going to be strictly literal to prohibit it. I will absolutely concede snare will cause an Aircraft to crash based on the strictly literal reading of the rule, and I will apply that same strictly literal reading of the rules to prohibit you from using that snare in the first place. The rules for Invulnerable saves, Mortal Wounds, and Ignoring Wounds are in the section for shooting attacks. Do invulnerable saves, Mortal Wounds, and Ignoring Wounds not work in the Fight Phase? The rules for Transports follow the rules for the Morale Phase. I can't wait to hear what everyone thinks that means for embarking and disembarking.

The very next paragraph starts with:
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase,


THAT rule is limited to the movement phase.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too. If you're going to say the rules as written say some dude on a bike in total weighing half a ton or less can ensnare an aircraft - flying at 25,000 feet with tons and tons of thrust - with a bola, you have to also admit the rules state you can't end any kind of move within 1" of an Aircraft - and doesn't differentiate between phases.


The Rules for Mortal Wounds, Invuns, Embark/Disembark etc are set apart in "boxes," and are not part of the a Phase. These rules a clearly separated from the standard rules of the phase. Now the fact that it is stupid to think that a guy on the ground pile into a plane that is 25,000 feet is moot. This is a rules discussion not what is "realistic"

The BRB FAQ states to add the rules to the movement phase. So they apply to the movement phase.Can you show me any evidence that the rules also apply to all the other phases? Following your logic a unit with FLY cannot charge a plane, do you feel that is RAW?

To be honest, imo, you should not be able to get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT without the fly keyword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also having re-read the rule there is also this,

If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).

If you cannot get within 1" of an Aircraft in ANY phase, as you maintain, then why does this part of the rule exist?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/20 12:07:57


 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





Dadavester wrote:


The BRB FAQ states to add the rules to the movement phase. So they apply to the movement phase.Can you show me any evidence that the rules also apply to all the other phases? Following your logic a unit with FLY cannot charge a plane, do you feel that is RAW?

To be honest, imo, you should not be able to get within 1" of an AIRCRAFT without the fly keyword.


Considering I've laughingly already pointed out that's EXACTLY what the Rules as written say, yes. In fact, its even worse... if you have to go within 1" of an AIRCRAFT to do it, Fly or Not, you can't charge, pile in, etc. ANY enemy models not just the aircraft. Its not the give-and-take reading I'd prefer, but then I didn't start with the silly RAW over the more logical RAI - Ergo RAW it is.

They are in seperate bubbles at the end of the shooting phase rules. The beginning of the fight phase begins the next page. They are in the section for the Shooting Phase. Following your logic, they would have to reprint those rules in each and every section of the game rules. As has already been brought up, the FLY rule is in the movement phase, which means it doesn't apply in the Fight/Charge phase - again according to your logic.

The rule as written says No Kind of Move, and does NOT say Only In The Movement Phase. If I don't get to apply my RAI on the snare, why should you get to apply your RAI on moving within 1" of an AIRCRAFT?

And Once again, the VERY NEXT paragraph specifically stipulates the next part only applies in the Movement phase. The quoted section did not so stipulate so it applies in all phases. Like Mortal Wounds and invulnerable saves.

If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move
characteristic (or if it has a damage table on
its datasheet that includes any minimum Move
characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be
moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they
were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move
within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement
phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not
have to Fall Back in order to move).’


Paragraph 1 Defines AIRCRAFT
Paragraph 2 describes movement by and around AIRCRAFT
Paragraph 3 SPECIFCALLY calls out In The Movement Phase.

Additionally, we have -
Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during
the Movement phase it can move across models as if they
were not there, and when moving across terrain features,
vertical distance is not counted against the total it can
move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in
the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says
it can Fly, then during the Charge phase it can move
across models (other than Buildings) as if they were
not there.’


So a model with FLY can move over models within 1" as if they aren't there and as long as they must/can move OVER (all) enemy models within 1" they don't have to fall back, because they can move over those models as if they aren't there. During the Movement phase. Oh look, somewhere else.. in the errata for the movement section that has to specifically call out it only applies during the movement phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll even admit, I don't think "if you have to go within 1" of an AIRCRAFT to do it, Fly or Not, you can't charge, pile in, etc. ANY enemy models not just the aircraft. " was meant to happen, I think they were trying to allow ground pounders to charge under an aircraft they couldn't otherwise touch, but the rules as written didn't work out the way we'd all like. Much like the snare.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/20 12:26:42


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine



Manchester, UK

They are in seperate bubbles at the end of the shooting phase rules. The beginning of the fight phase begins the next page. They are in the section for the Shooting Phase. Following your logic, they would have to reprint those rules in each and every section of the game rules. As has already been brought up, the FLY rule is in the movement phase, which means it doesn't apply in the Fight/Charge phase - again according to your logic.

That is blatantly mis-representing what i am saying. I am saying that BECAUSE they are in boxes separated from the main body of the rules they are exactly that, separate and not part of that phase.

Now the AIRCRAFT Rule. There seem to be 2 interpretations of this rule.

1) That rule applies to all phases. This means that units with FLY cannot charge AIRCRAFT and that units that move within 1" of an AIRCRAFT cannot then charge any unit.

2) That the rule only applies to the Movement phase and as such you can charge an AIRCRAFT with FLY and units that move wthin 1" on an AIRCRAFT can charge other units.

As i also mentioned there is this part of the Rule you are omitting.

If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).

If you cannot move within 1" as you maintain, then why do you need this part of the rule?

EDIT: I also cannot seem to do those quote bubbles manually!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/08/20 12:33:23


 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator




What moves do you think 'Any kind of move' means, if this rule only applies in the movement phase?


Disclaimer - I am a Games Workshop Shareholder. 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine



Manchester, UK

AdmiralHalsey wrote:
What moves do you think 'Any kind of move' means, if this rule only applies in the movement phase?



Move, Advance or Fallback. 3 types of move that happen within the movement phase. If it didn't say any kind of move you know that people would be arguing that you could Advance or fallback to within 1".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/20 12:54:07


 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






That is blatantly mis-representing what i am saying. I am saying that BECAUSE they are in boxes separated from the main body of the rules they are exactly that, separate and not part of that phase.
How do you know the Aircraft rule wouldn't have been in a seperate bubble if it hadn't have been an errata?


Now the AIRCRAFT Rule. There seem to be 2 interpretations of this rule.

1) That rule applies to all phases. This means that units with FLY cannot charge AIRCRAFT and that units that move within 1" of an AIRCRAFT cannot then charge any unit.

2) That the rule only applies to the Movement phase and as such you can charge an AIRCRAFT with FLY and units that move wthin 1" on an AIRCRAFT can charge other units.

As i also mentioned there is this part of the Rule you are omitting.

If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).

If you cannot move within 1" as you maintain, then why do you need this part of the rule?
Because the Aircraft can charge/pile-in/consolidate within 1" of something.

EDIT: I also cannot seem to do those quote bubbles manually!
I frequently have to fix BBCode syntax when I delete extra quote text and the like too. Don't feel bad.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

I see p5 is still trying to push false information. I would hate to play him and watch him be upset when I didn’t allow him to do anything he says he can.
   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




Add the following text to the end of the Movement phase section:
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be
moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they
were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move
within 1" of any enemy units.

Well... The first sentence do specify that it is in the movement phase.

2. You all bring up units that can FLY and that "it works in the charge phase".. Re-read THAT rule again!

Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during
the Movement phase it can move across models as if they
were not there, and when moving across terrain features,
vertical distance is not counted against the total it can
move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in
the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says
it can Fly, then during the Charge phase it can move
across models (other than Buildings) as if they were
not there.’

The last part specify why that is. Do you want GW to copy/paste and/or add that rule and place it under the charging phase?

3.
with all this, you CAN pile in and consolidate into an AIRCRAFT unit and then on a 4+ kill it. It's the same thing with the Contorted Epitome and this has not been FAQ so why will this be?

So if your all basing your interpretation on "a unit with FLY has that rule and its effecting the move in the charge phase"..
BECAUSE the rule explicit do tell you just that!

I will warn my opponent of my Contorted Epitome and killing his/hers AIRCRAFT units as that are what the rules are.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Tazberry wrote:
Add the following text to the end of the Movement phase section:
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be
moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they
were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move
within 1" of any enemy units.

Well... The first sentence do specify that it is in the movement phase.


Well, it says to append the text to the end of the Movement Phase section. The rule itself, however, does not say "in the Movement phase" there like it says in other things later. We'll get back to this after your next point.

Tazberry wrote:
2. You all bring up units that can FLY and that "it works in the charge phase".. Re-read THAT rule again!

Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during
the Movement phase it can move across models as if they
were not there, and when moving across terrain features,
vertical distance is not counted against the total it can
move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in
the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says
it can Fly, then during the Charge phase it can move
across models (other than Buildings) as if they were
not there.’

The last part specify why that is. Do you want GW to copy/paste and/or add that rule and place it under the charging phase?


I believe that same argument can be applied to the first point. Do you want GW to copy/paste and/ior add that rule to every other section that has any kind of movement involved in it?



   
Made in se
Regular Dakkanaut




If they wanted it to work for all movement of any kind then they simply would have worded it differently in the first sentence.


Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement Phase section:
‘Aircraft
If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be moved across such models (and their bases) as if they were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).’

This is the whole text. It clearly says movement phase. Just as clear as the FLY keyword says that those units can charge over other units.

I would be happy if they did a rulebook that had every rule for every phase specified and exactly how a battle round is and when a turn starts/ends. It would make everything much easier.
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





Tazberry wrote:
Add the following text to the end of the Movement phase section:

Well... The first sentence do specify that it is in the movement phase.
no, it specifies the rule is located in the movement phase section. We’re talking RAW, you don’t get to add more than what is there.


2. You all bring up units that can FLY and that "it works in the charge phase".. Re-read THAT rule again!

Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during
the Movement phase it can move across models as if they
were not there, and when moving across terrain features,
vertical distance is not counted against the total it can
move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in
the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says
it can Fly, then during the Charge phase it can move
across models (other than Buildings) as if they were
not there.’
you’ve merged two things together, probably because quote texting copy and paste has removed the spacing/separation. The part that starts with “If the datasheel for a model says it can fly....” is a different FAQ piece. And shows that the rules in the movement phase section both can apply outside the movement phase, AND must specify if it applies less than ALWAYS.

The last part specify why that is. Do you want GW to copy/paste and/or add that rule and place it under the charging phase?
no, the people who say movement phase rules section rules only apply to the movement phase do.

3.
with all this, you CAN pile in and consolidate into an AIRCRAFT unit and then on a 4+ kill it. It's the same thing with the Contorted Epitome and this has not been FAQ so why will this be?
. There’s an entire list of stupidly oxymoron rules that haven’t been FAQ’ed. This doesn’t change the RAW. If you want to apply the RAI on the rules you want to, you should be applying the RAI on the rules I want to. If you want to apply the RAW to the rules I don’t like, I’m going to apply the RAW to the rules you don’t like.

So if your all basing your interpretation on "a unit with FLY has that rule and its effecting the move in the charge phase"..
BECAUSE the rule explicit do tell you just that!

I will warn my opponent of my Contorted Epitome and killing his/hers AIRCRAFT units as that are what the rules are.

The rule explicitly says ANY KIND of move. - nobody has mentioned the rules for Contorted Epitome so I can’t say what it can or can’t do - but if it’s the same as the snares, the rules say you can’t initiate the conditions, only the Aircraft can. Pick a standard - strict RAW where nobody is happy, or give-and-take RAI and apply it to both players.

Edit to add: for the record my RAI is I have the strong impression they’ve made a feeble attempt to create a second “layer” so to speak on the tabletop for AIRCRAFT with a semi-permeable boundary only models with FLY can cross such that Aircraft don’t interfere with the ground pounders and groundpounders don’t interfere with aircraft.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/21 06:08:37


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
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Germany

Breton wrote:

you’ve merged two things together, probably because quote texting copy and paste has removed the spacing/separation. The part that starts with “If the datasheel for a model says it can fly....” is a different FAQ piece. And shows that the rules in the movement phase section both can apply outside the movement phase, AND must specify if it applies less than ALWAYS.


Movement phase rules always apply, unless specified otherwise ?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/21 06:37:23


 
   
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I feel like you’re operating under a misconception. I feel like you think proving my RAW readings break the game and that’s why we RAI them will somehow defend your RAW reading of a rule that’s begging to be RAI’ed.

So sure, go find a movement phase rule that doesn’t say it’s movement phase only that breaks the game. Help me out.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

I wasn't thinking of a game breaking situation, but I'm pretty sure there are some. You really need to understand that certain rules are for certain phases only.
   
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So are you saying that all units with the keyword AIRCRAFT can never be in close combat? Sad thing for my flying Daemon prince and other melee oriented armies with Fly keyword.

You play your RAI and I play my RAW. (With exceptions ofc, assault weapons, pistols for example.)
   
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Which daemon prince has a minimum move ?? That's required to get the AIRCRAFT keyword.
   
 
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