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So getting back in 40k after a long time and of course the big change with Space Marines is the Primaris addition and what seems like a replacement/upgrade of a lot of troop choices in those armies.

Just curious if anyone really runs any tactical marines anymore while playing or is it all just the Primaris. Just feels like I wasted some money on old Space Wolves Kits and the secound Grey Hunter box was probably a waste of money. Anyway havn't started on the Tooth and Claw Set yet, which will add those Primaris Space Wolves to the army group, but can't help to feel bad for the orginals as I assume they will fade away from usage.

Any thoughts?

Intercessors have the edge over regular Tactical Marines (although the letter did go down to 12 ppm in the new codex). Grey Hunters are a bit better off since they get +1A from their chainswords and can double-up on specials like Plasma. I have added a couple of packs of Intercessors to my wolves for variety but my trusty Grey Hunters aren't going anywhere just yet.

Understood, and I kit mine to be a "healthy mix" 1 Sergeant (one of them is a double claw slouch up), 2 Plasmas, 4 boltguns, and 4 boltguns chain sword mix.

Some of us do, some don't. It varies a great deal. Tactically suit certain roles better than intercessors. Intercessors are usually better if you want a unit that walls up the board to grab objectives.

Tacticals still have their uses IMO

Mainly because they can use transports they have better ability to get up the field for many less points than Primaris who are still only allowed the expensive Repulsors.

But also as their name suggests they are more tactically versatile.

Want them to sit at the back and plink away then choose missile launcher and plasma gun heavy and specialist.

Have them in cover and they can still tank a bit of damage, but the best thing about them now is they are cheaper but still gain the Bolter Discipline rule,which means their Rapid Fire bolters fire 2 shots at 24" if they stay still.


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the best choice is a mix of primaris and tacticals for different roles.

Take combat squadded tacticals in a razorback and camp on an objective. then use Primaris Marines to push forward and tank the incoming fire while the other half of the tactical squad uses missile launchers etc from long range

 Corennus wrote:
Tacticals still have their uses IMO

Mainly because they can use transports they have better ability to get up the field for many less points than Primaris who are still only allowed the expensive Repulsors.

But also as their name suggests they are more tactically versatile.

Want them to sit at the back and plink away then choose missile launcher and plasma gun heavy and specialist.

Have them in cover and they can still tank a bit of damage, but the best thing about them now is they are cheaper but still gain the Bolter Discipline rule,which means their Rapid Fire bolters fire 2 shots at 24" if they stay still.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the best choice is a mix of primaris and tacticals for different roles.

Take combat squadded tacticals in a razorback and camp on an objective. then use Primaris Marines to push forward and tank the incoming fire while the other half of the tactical squad uses missile launchers etc from long range

I'm sorry but missile launcher is just bad.
PlasmaCannons, even grav and lascannons before a missle launcher.

The following is based on tge new spacemarine codex, which plays differently to wolfs

It doesn't sound much but saving 25 points or more per msu starts to add up over 6 squads for double battalion which is intercessors to tacs. For normal marines I'd also include scouts as still being valuable for screening, the new primaris super screeners are good but their point really eat into being able to bring support if your double battalion.
I'm currently running 1 intercessors 1 tac and 1 scout squad in each battalion as they all do different things that make them earn their place.

missile launchers worse than plasma cannon?

ok d3 shots for plasma is nice but you're giving up 12" range and also if you superrcharge you die on a 1.

 Corennus wrote:
Tacticals still have their uses IMO

Mainly because they can use transports they have better ability to get up the field for many less points than Primaris who are still only allowed the expensive Repulsors.

you really need to buy the new codex dude.

Yeah just updated battlescribe. Impulsors.

Overall I think Intercessors are a better "stock" Troop, with Sniper Scouts being a better back-to-midfield objective camper.
But it isn't the end of the world to have a 5-man Tac squad with a heavy weapon sitting in the back field. Especially if you already own a Tac squad and don't yet have a 3rd Troop to replace them with in a Battalion

In my experience with my sons' lists, having mostly Primaris moving forward means the Tac squad is generally low priority and only gets shot at when there aren't better targets in LoS.
I certainly wouldn't recommend more than a single 5-man unit, but 1 unit in a sea of Primaris does enough work to justify its existence

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5 man tacs in pods with plasma/combi-plasma are not a terrible plan. They are a scalpel that generates some CP.

Back in 7th I was all but finished my white scars gladius strike force (think that's what that was called - where you got all the free transports) then 8th was announced and sm got shelved and I dusted off my guard. So needless to say I have a lot of tac squads. Are we saying they're rubbish? Or close to it?

No. They are not. Not yet. The plasma loadout is still fearsome, but very fragile.

 necron99 wrote:
Back in 7th I was all but finished my white scars gladius strike force (think that's what that was called - where you got all the free transports) then 8th was announced and sm got shelved and I dusted off my guard. So needless to say I have a lot of tac squads. Are we saying they're rubbish? Or close to it?

Nah they can still hold their own, you'll need the CP of douvle battalions and going ham on primaris gets spendy tacs are way cheaper and hiding a lascannon behind 4 12 point tacs can be fun if their in cover T4 2+ is something that is more robust that people expect for and they tend to have more pressing issues calling for their high AP weapons.

I only run Tacs, primarily on principle but they do offer a number of advantages.

1: they share transports with Sternguard and Devastators, both of which are great units. Both of which can take advantage of Pods.

2: They benefit greatly with Salamanders tactics (or Artisan), as well as the UM ability to move and fire Heavies without penalty.

3: I like distributing my heavy weapons around, as to offer fewer obvious targets.

So far I still run 10-man squads, as I like the deployment flexibility it offers. It's easy to pack two Plasma/Combi squads in a pod, and keep a Heavy in the rear. But sometimes I want to go all out gunline, in which case the 10- man units spread out and take advantages if Auras nicely, as wrll as absorb more casualties before the juicy weapons are affected.

Back in the early days of 8th, I ran Plasma,Combi-Plas, Grav-Cannon, and would load the specials and the heavy into one Combat Squad, and dual drop those in a Pod. And I ran the bolter guys in the rear squads to objectives. This seems even more viable now with Bolter Discipline, and the drops in price to Tacs and Grav.

The TL;DR is lots and lots of potential deployment options with good weapons, so I can change things up according to mission, opponent, etc.

Plus they synergize with Razorbacks, and I get a lot of value out of Razorbacks.

IMHO both tac marines and intercessors are good. it depends on what you wanna do with them. if you want "bolter bodies" intercessors are proably better, but Tac Marines offer some flexability that is handy. the answer (and this IMHO signifies good codex design) is "it depends"

The flexibility is very expensive, though. And fragile.

I think tacticals have their place in either very high point games where they can be taken in numbers, or in low point games as a main force.

Tacs should be 10 pts. to be viable. All the new rules and stratagems are mostly PRIMARIS only, making tacs even weaker.

I feel like if Intercessors get the option for 1 model per 5 to take a Plasma Incinerator (Or Assault or Heavy) and the unit Sgt gets the option for a Plasma Pistol, THEN Tacticals will be full and well dead.
But it doesn't look like GW is ever going to go that route.

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 p5freak wrote:
Tacs should be 10 pts. to be viable. All the new rules and stratagems are mostly PRIMARIS only, making tacs even weaker.

Tacs don't need the Stratagems because they get spiffy guns. With UM now they can move and fire them without penalty, too, which is nice.


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 Corennus wrote:
I think tacticals have their place in either very high point games where they can be taken in numbers, or in low point games as a main force.

What's crazy now is that 100 of them is only 1200 points. You could load them out and back them up pretty well for the rest of those points, it seems. I've run 90 marines in a list before and it's not bad. That was before Bolter Discipline, Doctrines and the price cuts, too. There might be something there. 100 Marines armed with 20 Lascannons comes to 1700.


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 Galef wrote:
I feel like if Intercessors get the option for 1 model per 5 to take a Plasma Incinerator (Or Assault or Heavy) and the unit Sgt gets the option for a Plasma Pistol, THEN Tacticals will be full and well dead.
But it doesn't look like GW is ever going to go that route.
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Yeah, one wonders what their plan is, in that regard. I think, as has been mentioned elsewhere, that they may try to double-dip. Keeping the options separated as they are keeps the Tacticals in a unique spot.

 Galef wrote:
I feel like if Intercessors get the option for 1 model per 5 to take a Plasma Incinerator (Or Assault or Heavy) and the unit Sgt gets the option for a Plasma Pistol, THEN Tacticals will be full and well dead.
But it doesn't look like GW is ever going to go that route.

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Agreed, the best strength of Tacs over primaris are embedded special weapons. I've had games where I started with 25 marines, ended with 10, and only lost about 70% of my effective firepower from those units because the last two in each squad had the special weapons. If they ever give the primaris a cheap transport and embedded special weapons then Tacs will be done and dusted. As is Tacs are WAY better than intercessors/hellblasters in the current state simply because against marine-killer weapons (plasma, burst-cannons, avengers, dissies, etc.,) tactical marines are just as durable as primaris are. The only point where primaris are significantly more durable are against mortal wounds.

I was winning almost all my games with tacs and rhinos before Codex 2.0, they now have conditional ap-1 and have doubled the amount of attacks that they get. Tacs are definitely in the ascendancy right now.

^That's about how I feel. I was holding my own locally, and just got a huge number of buffs dumped on me.

I still think the embedded weapons push the cost too high to be truly effective. Equipped old bois bleed points.

Martel732 wrote:
I still think the embedded weapons push the cost too high to be truly effective. Equipped old bois bleed points.

Which is the crux of the problem on top of poor weapon saturation. Sternguard can do the same and for a MUCH better cost opportunity.

Tacs remain the Space Marine troops with the hardest hitting guns, however. In my book, if you gotta take troops for CP, may as well be the ones with access to the big guns.

Except they don't get a lot of guns which you keep pretending they do. Scouts and Intercessors actually fill a role to be kept, whereas Tactical Marines don't and never will.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except they don't get a lot of guns which you keep pretending they do. Scouts and Intercessors actually fill a role to be kept, whereas Tactical Marines don't and never will.

The role is, "Engage elements of opposing forces with weapons appropriate to the task." Which they do.

No one's forcing you to take 'em, geez.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except they don't get a lot of guns which you keep pretending they do. Scouts and Intercessors actually fill a role to be kept, whereas Tactical Marines don't and never will.

The role is, "Engage elements of opposing forces with weapons appropriate to the task." Which they do.

No one's forcing you to take 'em, geez.

well.. *A* weapon approperate to the task, the rest of them use boltguns

 Insectum7 wrote:
Tacs remain the Space Marine troops with the hardest hitting guns, however. In my book, if you gotta take troops for CP, may as well be the ones with access to the big guns.

I don't think that matters if you can't keep them firing. Putting an 11 pt gun on a one wound 12 pt dope who has other one wound dopes in front of him seems very last edition.