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With rumours of the upcoming "Psychic Awakening" event being Endless Spells for 40k, if this turns out to be true, would you be happy with the inclusion assuming it's done in the same manner as in AOS?

Personally I'd rather it was kept to AOS, where, in my opinion, it makes more sense for it to exist.

I don't play AOS so haven't looked at endless spells so I'm undecided I'd need to know more about how it would work. that said models to represent spell effects is kinda meh to me, I prefer being able to spend my money on my army rather then spell effects

I don't want to buy more plastic for my army even if they look cool and I don't want to have to buy a bundle of spells of which most I may never use/need.

BrianDavion wrote:
I don't play AOS so haven't looked at endless spells so I'm undecided I'd need to know more about how it would work. that said models to represent spell effects is kinda meh to me, I prefer being able to spend my money on my army rather then spell effects

The basics of what you need to know:

Endless Spells can still be dispelled as normal, but additionally at any point they can attempt to be dispelled(since they're 'always on').
They cost points as part of your army roster, but then any Wizard in your army can attempt to manifest it--caveat of only one instance of it can be active at a time.
In AoS with turn priorities, the person who has it goes second when you activate Endless Spells--prevents too much craziness.


For myself, I'd be pretty happy with it. I like Endless Spells, quite a few of them have some interesting effects.

The spells are just like spending money on your army just in a different way. The models are good and they represent powerful spells for the tabletop. This lets the spells have a longer lasting effect and introduces interesting twists on gameplay.

I should note that the spells come in roughly two forms - static spells and "predatory" spells. The static ones are like walls and aura buffs and remain in control of the player who cast them; whilst predatory spells can swap over with the turn sequence.

Also the generic spells can be cast by any wizard, but there are also faction specific spells. Interestingly these are not limited by faction but by wizard. Ergo only a Stormcast Wizard can cast the stormcast endless spells; however if you were to ally in a stormcast wizard then they could cast them for you even if your core army isn't stormcast.


I think they give a neat and unique flavour and appearance to the game and they add a new layer to the experience. I'd ont want them in 40K if only because I think its nice to have some differences between the games; but I can see them working.


Note that races which don't have mages - which in the 40K world would be races like Tau who don't have psychers, get their own version. These can even be a bit more powerful because they aren't "endless spells" but fit the same role so can be harder to counter. Tau, for instance, I would see getting some kind of nanomachine cloud or swam of bots or suchlike.

Its a no for me.
I'll bang that drum again that these (if implemented incorrectly) could push the HtH/combat phase even further down the food chain.

Move, blow stuff up with spells, blow stuff up with shooting.
Combat? Dont need it, everythings already toast.

 Ratius wrote:
Its a no for me.
I'll bang that drum again that these (if implemented incorrectly) could push the HtH/combat phase even further down the food chain.

Move, blow stuff up with spells, blow stuff up with shooting.
Combat? Dont need it, everythings already toast.

Honestly they haven't hurt close combat in AoS; in fact a good few of them enable it by being spells that carry units over the battlefield; or provide aura bonuses.
Plus I think with 40K the combat problem is not the spells its the nature of three key elements:

1) Terrain and cover rules that don't really protect units enough from ranged fire.

2) Players who don't put down enough line of sight blocking terrain. In fact this one seems to almost be regional/generational since I see a lot more boards shown around now that tend to be so light on terrain that its almost like they are lining up armies "Chess" style with very littel blocking view across the board.

3) A shooting phase where ranged weapons are just a bit too powerful for their own good.

Of course GW has tried to mitigate this, but mostly by giving close combat heavy armies tools to get into combat in turns 1 and 2. So rather than making ranged weaker, they've instead tried to make close combat faster so nullify the ranged.

Someone at a different point on another thread gave me the jist on endless spells already, but I have a question. Can all wizard in AOS cast them, or do you have to be some level of powerful?

Should they be almost directly ported over, would a units like Wyrdvane Psykers, Astropaths, or Primaris Psykers be able to cast them?

 Apple Peel wrote:
Someone at a different point on another thread gave me the jist on endless spells already, but I have a question. Can all wizard in AOS cast them, or do you have to be some level of powerful?

Should they be almost directly ported over, would a units like Wyrdvane Psykers, Astropaths, or Primaris Psykers be able to cast them?

There's no "power levels" in AoS as such. So any wizard can cast any of the universal Endless Spells provided that you've paid the points for that spell and provided that you've not already got that spell on the table cast by one of your wizards.
The only limits are that there are "faction" Endless Spells which can only be cast by wizards with a specific faction in their warscroll. This means those faction specific ones can be bought and used by other factions provided that they can ally in the correct wizard to cast them.

This method also allows factions with no mages to have their own endless spell equivalents. Eg Khorne has no mages and so cannot use any of the universal spells, but can use their own faction specific ones which are prayers rather than spells.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Someone at a different point on another thread gave me the jist on endless spells already, but I have a question. Can all wizard in AOS cast them, or do you have to be some level of powerful?

Should they be almost directly ported over, would a units like Wyrdvane Psykers, Astropaths, or Primaris Psykers be able to cast them?

Theoretically, all Wizards in AoS can cast them...but the cast values might preclude certain ones from being successful if you don't have benefits to your casting values or if there's a rule that halves your results/dice to throw at the spell or things of that nature.

You don't get bonuses in AOS for spell levels or caster levels. And GW makes all spells ridiculously trivial to cast, because not casting spells is not "fun". Like casting values higher than a 5 are uncommon and over 6 are very rare.

As to endless psychic powers making hand to hand combat worse; I really don't think so. Hand to hand combat is still pretty much the staple in AOS still.

 auticus wrote:
You don't get bonuses in AOS for spell levels or caster levels. And GW makes all spells ridiculously trivial to cast, because not casting spells is not "fun". Like casting values higher than a 5 are uncommon and over 6 are very rare.

Lets not also for get that casting spells typically comes with two rolls you have to pass - a casting roll and then your opponent trying to unbind it before its cast. For Endless Spells there's also the aspect that you've paid points for it; so the last thing you want is to have the spell super hard to cast that it practically rarely makes it tabletop side.

Getting Eldritch Storm back would be fun, well till the IoM get a better version

Oh good, even more buffs to a phase several races can't even participate in.

And if anyone says that Necrons, DE, Tau etc. will get their own versions of these (presumably not requiring psykers), my response is that I'll believe it when I see it.

I mean, these races are also supposed to have psychic defence in one form or other, yet in all cases it's basically nonexistent.

Ask any AoS players how they feel about fighting Khorne if they plan on using magic.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Ask any AoS players how they feel about fighting Khorne if they plan on using magic.

I think this is based on the assumption that non-psychic armies would receive stuff in such as update. I'm not convinced this would be true.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Oh good, even more buffs to a phase several races can't even participate in.

And if anyone says that Necrons, DE, Tau etc. will get their own versions of these (presumably not requiring psykers), my response is that I'll believe it when I see it.

I mean, these races are also supposed to have psychic defence in one form or other, yet in all cases it's basically nonexistent.

Korne units in AoS have endless spells soo I guess your argument is invalid?

It simply doesn't fit in 40K. Khorne for example hates all psykers, so there'd be no one around to manifest the spells. Black Templars don't have Librarians, so there'd be no one around to manifest the spells.

Way too many issues with 40K and endless spells.

SG

Here's Khornes in AoS
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Judgements-of-Khorne-2019

Note that if you check the rules (under downloads on that link) they are not even listed as "Endless Spells" in the keywords. They tie right into how the army casts it's buff abilities and are not spells in any sense save that they operate in a very similar way to Endless Spells.

More variety can equate to more fun.

I'd be happy to give them a try

If the miniatures are good, I am all for it.

I am sure the background writers will put together some justification for them.

I think it's a great way of getting interesting models on the table and interesting effects in the game.

I play witch hunters- Sisters plus Ordo Hereticus. Having more witches to burn suits me fine.

I'm curious about perils of the warp and the psychic abomination rules for cullexus and sisters of silence.

I have this idea for an anti-psychic detachment, and persistent psychic effects might give me the push to actually do it. The detachment is a vanguard: Inquistor Greyfax and a Cullexus Assassin skating around the battlefield in a Kharon Pattern Acquisitor with a 5 woman witchseeker squad and a 5 woman vigilator squad.- four units in one vehicle.

That packs a -4 on psychic tests with two deny the witch attempts and several weapon options to cut through the chaff screens that protect witches. On the downside, I don't think there are official 8th ed rules for the Acquisitor.

And in response to suggestions that these things don't fit in 40k, I would argue that they absolutely fit- especially given the whole Rift storyline. Even before the fall of Cadia, Imperial paranoia about psychics always seemed disproportionate to the actual threat they represent on the table.

This might go some distance toward justifying that very real fear and paranoia that have been a part of the 40k universe for three decades.

 Overread wrote:
Here's Khornes in AoS
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Judgements-of-Khorne-2019

Note that if you check the rules (under downloads on that link) they are not even listed as "Endless Spells" in the keywords. They tie right into how the army casts it's buff abilities and are not spells in any sense save that they operate in a very similar way to Endless Spells.

Those Judgements came to AoS far later than the AoS 2 launch which introduced Endless Spells. And, they aren't endless spells. They are something different. So, Endless Spells still won't work for Khorne in AoS or 40K.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
If the miniatures are good, I am all for it.

I am sure the background writers will put together some justification for them.

Not *all* of the Endless Spells look absolutely amazing. Some look like they were running out of ideas or time and had to throw something together. That said, the vast majority of the models used for Endless Spells are beautiful models!

SG

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Here's Khornes in AoS
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Judgements-of-Khorne-2019

Note that if you check the rules (under downloads on that link) they are not even listed as "Endless Spells" in the keywords. They tie right into how the army casts it's buff abilities and are not spells in any sense save that they operate in a very similar way to Endless Spells.

Those Judgements came to AoS far later than the AoS 2 launch which introduced Endless Spells. And, they aren't endless spells. They are something different. So, Endless Spells still won't work for Khorne in AoS or 40K.

But they are mechanically identical to endless spells. My only complaint about khorn judgments/priests is that they get to dispell and mess with wizards all they want, but wizards can't do anything to their prayers and judgments.

I would hope that if they introduce these to 40k, even if the fluff justifications for the different factions versions of them are unique and special. They all still function off the same keywords.

Simple: If you have to buy them to be competitive in 40K games, then no. If it's an optional bit of flavor, sure.

I do not buy new GW kits/models, and absolutely would never pay for a box of spell miniatures. If it becomes a staple of 40K, it'd help keep me from playing the game in the future (already on a four month hiatus)

Yet more rules bloat - hurrah!

That is a no from me.

I do not think 40k needs them, or they really fit with the game that much. There are other elements i would much rather see done.

So hard no from me here.

The models for Endless spells generally look fantastic. But I have no interest in buying them (for AoS or 40K), and wouldn’t desire to play with them.

 ServiceGames wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Here's Khornes in AoS
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Judgements-of-Khorne-2019

Note that if you check the rules (under downloads on that link) they are not even listed as "Endless Spells" in the keywords. They tie right into how the army casts it's buff abilities and are not spells in any sense save that they operate in a very similar way to Endless Spells.

Those Judgements came to AoS far later than the AoS 2 launch which introduced Endless Spells. And, they aren't endless spells. They are something different. So, Endless Spells still won't work for Khorne in AoS or 40K.

SG


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
If the miniatures are good, I am all for it.

I am sure the background writers will put together some justification for them.

Not *all* of the Endless Spells look absolutely amazing. Some look like they were running out of ideas or time and had to throw something together. That said, the vast majority of the models used for Endless Spells are beautiful models!

SG

Appearances of models are always variable, some people hate the current hive tyrants for example.

As for releases, well that doesn't really hold much argument toward anything. Endless Spells for factions have been coming out as GW updates Battletomes since the Stormcast Tome for 2.0. This means that every timea new 2.0 tome has come out the faction has typically got terrain and endless spells. So sure the Khorne one wasn't at launch, but nor were the Skaven or Slaanesh. There's a few 2.0 Tomes without spells (Idoneth and Daughters of Khaine), but GW can easily release them once they've got a release window for those factions.

In the end for 40K they'd simply replace the powers for facitons like Tau with something themed from the faction. It's basically just representing a major power/ability that lasts beyond one turn andh as a physical component in the game.