Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
So an early factor of 40k’s illustrations were body horror in nature.
Human beings de-limbed (or ‘nuggeted’, if you’re a LARPER, with those retaining one limb being ‘drumsticks’, natch) and upgraded with crude looking augmetics, or literally wired into their stations, be they Scribes, Ship Crew or more menial labour.
And I’m not talking Servitors here. The art clearly showed them as clear eyed, often hunched over their labours, beavering away.
Yet that’s largely missing from the model ranges. And for me, they serve a natural counterpoint to the horrors of Chaos mutation. What the Gods dish out willy-nilly, mankind matches by design.
And it’s still a part of 40k to this day. Human beings mutilated and ‘improved’, including in Titan Death (the novel), the mortal remains of an aged Princeps installed in a tank so she might continue to guide her Titan charge in war.
General bodily mutilation in the civilian populace. Arms replaced with powered limbs. Legs replaced with tracks. Cerebellums enhanced (or deliberately limited), all in the name of ever greater efficiency.
Model ranges? Serviceable looking bionic limbs, here and there. Everything else fairly crisp and pristine as such things go.
I’m particularly disappointed by the Ad-Mech range here. Yes, bionics feature heavily on even the lowliest scrote. But it’s all so....standardised. And practical. Especially for the Tech Priests themselves. Sure, they’re an artefact of GW’s current monopose aesthetic. And we can’t have everything we want.
But imagine at least for characters and squad leaders etc relatively bare bone frames that we can add bits and bobs to. Show their veteran status by doing what the Mechanicus does, and just sticking on whatever is to hand (plebs) or whatever they feel proves their devotion (nobs).
Hell, I’d settle for a frame or two of optional augmetics sold separately for those that wants them, so we can easily customise our collection, whilst staying WYSIWYG.
And I want similar for Chaos. Give me mental mutations. A power armoured veteran of thousands of years of war, who the Gods gifted but once, and it was sodding chicken legs, or something equally aesthetically odd.
Bring back the horror. Make it easy for anyone to have an army that paint scheme not included, is a visual riot of oddness and ‘but why’.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
I loved the description of the tech-magos in the Word Bearers novels, talking about having a selection of secondary brains stored in fluid tanks on his back... *shudder*
Sounds like it's time to learn sculpting. Back in 5th I started with Green Stuff so I could Nurgle up my CSM. With bloated guts and hanging entrails and Nurgle up my tanks.
The models are a blank canvas to go nuts with (I'm breaking out sculpting tools to make a chapter of essentially crusading churches).
Crispy78 wrote:I loved the description of the tech-magos in the Word Bearers novels, talking about having a selection of secondary brains stored in fluid tanks on his back... *shudder*
that's dope!
They need to bring the DarkMech to the table fully. I want to see kataphrons w multiple humans grafted on to it. the Disco Lord and Venomcrawler are a great start. Negavolt cultists from BSF look great and can only hope they continue with this trend.
I find most of GW's modern sculpts to be beautifully done...and pretty damn boring. This is obviously a result of CAD and making some bits interchangeable, etc. Older metals definitely had a lot more character to them. I have a female Eldar Guardian (Pirate) with a crew cut, a half-mask, a power fist, power sword, and a bionic leg...they just don't do cool stuff like that any more. Guardians, in particularly used to have heaps of character when they were more generic pirates, etc.
At first, I thought this was going to be a Nurgle-related thread .
There are a few such models left in the line (or one coming for Blackstone Fortress), but after some thinking I’d like to see a add-on sprue for bionics and mutations you could use to spiffy up models.
Unfortunately, they probably wouldn’t be popular unless they got some rules attached to them. Not a bad thing, but something I’d like to see done for Narrative more so than for Matched play - something befitting to drop in a White Dwarf or Chapter Approved. It would also make a fine addition to Killteam and Necromunda.
Spitballing here:
Rules: You can give 1 bionic or mutation to Sergeant in a regular squad. Any model in a Veteran squad can have 1 bionic or mutation. Any non-unique HQ model can have up to 2 bionics/mutation.
- Arm, lesser: reroll 1s on melee attacks
- Arm, greater: +1 STR, Wound rolls of 6 add +1 damage
- Leg, lesser: add +1” movement
- Leg, greater: add +1” movement, reroll 1s for advance or charges
- Eye, lesser: Reroll 1 for ranged weapon attacks
- Eye, greater: +1 to Ranged weapon attacks, add +3” to range of shooting attacks
- Torso, lesser: add +1 to Armor saves
- Torso, greater: +1 Toughness, +++6 save
You know what race could really use some body horror?
Necrons.
I mean, they have something called Mind Shackle Scarabs, which you'd think would be an "I win".
I mean, deploy a bunch of them over a planet and boom, instant robo-zombie apocalypse. You can even do a thing where they rapidly multiply and reform themselves into larger canoptek constructs.
Think of the chest burster scene from aliens, except with a Scarab. Or have a bunch of mechanical tendrils burst from the host like a cybernetic Las Plagas.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Elbows wrote: I find most of GW's modern sculpts to be beautifully done...and pretty damn boring. This is obviously a result of CAD and making some bits interchangeable, etc. Older metals definitely had a lot more character to them. I have a female Eldar Guardian (Pirate) with a crew cut, a half-mask, a power fist, power sword, and a bionic leg...they just don't do cool stuff like that any more. Guardians, in particularly used to have heaps of character when they were more generic pirates, etc.
I feel like CAD is getting unfairly blamed since they'be been using it since 5thnedition but people only seem to be complaining about it more and more recently.
The design shift seems to be to try and leave room for players to have a wider canvas to do stuff with over forcing them to adopt specific design elements. So the sculpts (generally) have less clutter so there is more room for painters, kitbashers and even heavy conversions (like sculpting) to be applied to models.
I feel like there used to be more done by the hobby to really personalize models that I don't see a lot of today, with complaints not enough options being given in the boxes themselves. I get it, since I too love having extra bits, but at the same time I suspect that as a community we seem to want GW to just give us everything on a platter and not really push to make anything our own quite like we used too.
The complaining about how empty and boring the aprimaris designs captures this the most for me as there is a great blank canvas to go nuts on that seems to be ignored in favor for complaining that it didn't.come in the kit despite older kits coming with even less than modern ones.
I'm getting 'Tetsuo the Iron man' vibes from this thread.
And I like it! I agree, the willing subjugation of the 'natural' flesh to the 'unnatural' machinery of man, is such an interesting part of sci-fi, particularly in a setting with anachronisms like 40k.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/22 19:51:15
ClockworkZion wrote: So the sculpts (generally) have less clutter so there is more room for painters, kitbashers and even heavy conversions (like sculpting) to be applied to models.
But then you get kits like the new Death Guard that are very busy sculpts, with downright gratuitous detail that clutters up the models and is difficult to remove, or the new Primaris and CSM, which are cut on the sprue such that limb swaps are drastically more difficult than with the kits they replaced.
If anything I'd say GW is downplaying kitbashing and heavy conversions. Fewer options in the codex to explore, more stringent WYSIWYG requirements for sanctioned events.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/22 20:35:30
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know what race could really use some body horror?
Necrons.
I mean, they have something called Mind Shackle Scarabs, which you'd think would be an "I win".
I mean, deploy a bunch of them over a planet and boom, instant robo-zombie apocalypse. You can even do a thing where they rapidly multiply and reform themselves into larger canoptek constructs.
Think of the chest burster scene from aliens, except with a Scarab. Or have a bunch of mechanical tendrils burst from the host like a cybernetic Las Plagas.
Necrons, to my mind (others are available, and come complete with opinions) may actually be the ultimate expression of Body Horror.
Sure, they’re not gribbly and manky for the most part. Indeed, they’re almost entirely uniform, and slaved to their masters.
But background wise, they’ve missed a trick. What if some spark of self survived apotheosis? Strong enough to survive, but too weak to express itself?
What would happen to us if, over hundreds of thousands of years, that spark could be blown away, only for the host body to be reformed or repaired or reinstalled, and there’s not a damned thing we could about it?
What if the relatively humble Necron warrior has passed beyond insanity, but still remains conscious of what it’s become? Literally, what exists being abject terror and irrevocable insanity? That one last shred, the merest, dimmest spark, something technology can not overcome, continues?
I....I genuinely have no wish to find out. It could be absolute peace. It could be Horror genuinely beyond imaging.
Hundreds. Of. Thousands. Of. Years. Of. It.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
ClockworkZion wrote: So the sculpts (generally) have less clutter so there is more room for painters, kitbashers and even heavy conversions (like sculpting) to be applied to models.
But then you get kits like the new Death Guard that are very busy sculpts, with downright gratuitous detail that clutters up the models and is difficult to remove, or the new Primaris and CSM, which are cut on the sprue such that limb swaps are drastically more difficult than with the kits they replaced.
If anything I'd say GW is downplaying kitbashing and heavy conversions. Fewer options in the codex to explore, more stringent WYSIWYG requirements for sanctioned events.
Anyone who thinks Primaris are hard to convert never did a head swap on metal model.
Yes, you have some work on basic models but that's nothing new. The only difference is the loss of a waist swivel which has been replaced by having more natural looking poses.
Death Guard are an example of what Oldstartes were turning into when you look at stuff like Sternguard and why the reboot was needed. It's not impossible.to convert them but they have so much going on that only veterans would even try. A faction or two like that isn't bad, but too many of those and the whole game really would be moving on past conversions and kitbashes.
Despite what the internet feels the current models aren't harder to convert than many of the older ones (and a waist swivel that breaks the bodyline is not really a conversion option, much less when the only legs most kits come with are half-squatting, half-squattong while leaning left and half-squatting while leaning right.
according to Jess Goodwin Primaris are deliberatly kept Bling light to give modelers more room to do their own stuff, I suspect that combines with the "no model no rules" ethos to create a modern 40k design philophsy of giving the weapons kit needed (and cutting down to what they wanna give you) and keeping bling on the model itself low to allow hobbists to bling the models up to taste.
I WOULD like to see some "bling kits" from GW. the chapter upgrade packs are a semi-decent start.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Casualty wrote: I'd be down for more Arco-Flagellants that lived up to the artwork for them (and that unforgettable bit of fluff about the making of one)
I've got my fingers crossed they do something cool with them.
I'm waiting for an Inquisiton update so I can make Chrono-gladiators for my army.
But yeah, beyond the bsf stuff with the rogue trader and the firebrand that uses what i only can assume is fart gas as flamer fuel there was a lack of body horror.
Of course only if we skip DG
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: You know what race could really use some body horror?
Necrons.
I mean, they have something called Mind Shackle Scarabs, which you'd think would be an "I win".
I mean, deploy a bunch of them over a planet and boom, instant robo-zombie apocalypse. You can even do a thing where they rapidly multiply and reform themselves into larger canoptek constructs.
Think of the chest burster scene from aliens, except with a Scarab. Or have a bunch of mechanical tendrils burst from the host like a cybernetic Las Plagas.
Necrons, to my mind (others are available, and come complete with opinions) may actually be the ultimate expression of Body Horror.
Sure, they’re not gribbly and manky for the most part. Indeed, they’re almost entirely uniform, and slaved to their masters.
But background wise, they’ve missed a trick. What if some spark of self survived apotheosis? Strong enough to survive, but too weak to express itself?
What would happen to us if, over hundreds of thousands of years, that spark could be blown away, only for the host body to be reformed or repaired or reinstalled, and there’s not a damned thing we could about it?
What if the relatively humble Necron warrior has passed beyond insanity, but still remains conscious of what it’s become? Literally, what exists being abject terror and irrevocable insanity? That one last shred, the merest, dimmest spark, something technology can not overcome, continues?
I....I genuinely have no wish to find out. It could be absolute peace. It could be Horror genuinely beyond imaging.
Hundreds. Of. Thousands. Of. Years. Of. It.
Yeah, there's that too. I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream comes to mind. Flayed Ones were actually like that; prior to the rework, they were necrons who remembered that they were alive at one point, and the memories drove them insane. The reason why they draped themselves in skin was an attempt to become organic again. But then GW decided to make them into robot space ghouls who dance around with body parts, so there goes that bit of existential horror.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
Dark Eldar Covens seem like strong contenders for this.
Pity GW has flat-out given up actually making DE models.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
BrianDavion wrote:according to Jess Goodwin Primaris are deliberatly kept Bling light to give modelers more room to do their own stuff, I suspect that combines with the "no model no rules" ethos to create a modern 40k design philophsy of giving the weapons kit needed (and cutting down to what they wanna give you) and keeping bling on the model itself low to allow hobbists to bling the models up to taste.
I WOULD like to see some "bling kits" from GW. the chapter upgrade packs are a semi-decent start.
I find it a little bit sad how much the likes of White Dwarf continually heap praise on John Blanche and the influence of his artwork on 40k, and yet, by the time any of his concepts are actually rendered in plastic, you'd be hard pressed to find anything Blanchian about them.
Last time I looked at a mechanicus army the body horror was definitely present. There are some details in the dune strider model that are pretty disturbing.
Martel732 wrote: Get rid of the horror. Its impractical and very 90s.
I agree. Besides me being a big not-fan of body horror; I also don't really feel that it's a particularly important part of 40k, save for maybe the Dark Eldar, though that isn't quite the same way.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
It's not really good horror, though, so it's pretty much out of style.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Martel732 wrote: Get rid of the horror. Its impractical and very 90s.
I agree. Besides me being a big not-fan of body horror; I also don't really feel that it's a particularly important part of 40k, save for maybe the Dark Eldar, though that isn't quite the same way.
It kind of is though? I mean, if the best way to enhance yourself to make you strong enough to survive in yhe setting is to crudely graft a bunch of crap onto you, then that's pretty 40k / grimdark. If Ad Mech had "clean" cybernetics, it just wouldn't be the same.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/23 08:07:13
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
I find it a little bit sad how much the likes of White Dwarf continually heap praise on John Blanche and the influence of his artwork on 40k, and yet, by the time any of his concepts are actually rendered in plastic, you'd be hard pressed to find anything Blanchian about them.
Yeah I think they mention him to keep us old dogs happy and reminiscing.
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
Servitors, Servo-skulls, cherubs, etc are kinda the definition of body horror. Hell, Marines have a decent amount of body mods. Black carapace, all the extra organs, superduper muscles & just the creation process of them is body horror enuff.
They really need to do a better job projecting the body horror aspect of the Imperium in the miniatures. It's very evident in the art & lore of 40k, so naturally those of us horror fans would like more modeling opportunities and plastic to warp.
About John Blanche, according to the voxcast where he went over his creative process, his thing is broad strokes that the sculptors take and refine into a specific aesthetic. Apparently there is a tome of his drawings in Nottingham that the development team can reference when looking for inspiration.