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pm713 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Also don't forget Yvraine wants to resurrect the God of the Dead. How better to do that than to make the Imperium strong enough to kill all the Eldar again.

Bring about/give birth to - not resurrect. Ynead, while long prophesied and followed, has yet to be born.

And the Eldar God of the Dead - there are likely other God of the Deads of other cultures (although none as powerful beyond if you consider Nurgle one - I wouldn't).

Ynnead both always has been and never will be. Warp time is weird so resurrect seems a fair term.

I'd think that the only gods of death left are Nurgle and some forms of the Emperor. Until Nagash comes flying out of the Warp and teaches people about how you enslave a galaxy.

Hence why we have Slanesh active before his birth around Y30k. But it was still Slanesh's "birth", not "rebirth".

Ynead never has been, but will always have been. He wasn't a member of the Eldar Pantheon. The Eldar aren't "bringing him back", as the Eldar have never had Ynead before.

Which brings up an interesting question; once Ynead is born, will he have been an instrumental part of the War in Heaven, and other history? In other words, before Slanesh's birth ~Y30k, was Slanesh involved in events in the distant past?

In other words, is there an "arrow of time" for the progression of Warp entities separate from the "arrow of time" of the Materium itself?

The question oversimplifies the situation. The whole IoM and the entirety of the Craftworld Eldar are not allies.

But neither of these entities is a single cohesive thing, both are huge and (relatively) fractured.

Some places in the IoM are probably ok with some Eldar hanging around; at least while they are useful - might end up in war later, but today trading is taking place for non-contraband goods (and maybe some off-the-books contraband too!)
Some CWE are ok with humans being nearby, tolerated for the time being as they see us as little more than animals; till we get dangerous and start shooting things.

And then others of both are going to be coming in guns blazing from the get go.

Trying to over-generalize two massive and not entirely cohesive entities really does not cover how either sides relationship with the other works in the 40K setting.

DorianGray wrote:
What happened to the old policy of killing any non-human Xenos life on sight? Does that still apply now or do we need to hold fire whenever we encounter Eldar just because they revived Gulliman and their clowns helped bring him to Earth.

Why are the Eldar bringing back Primarchs and opening helping humans? Is the official IoM policy to still kill them as despised enemies of humanity?

Considering Imperial Inquisitors even sometimes WORK with the clown varient of the Eldar and their library... how is that not insane heresy? Humans cannot work with any form of Xenos. That is heresy.

The Imperium worked with the Eldar many times over the course of 40k history, especially during Black Crusades.

Neither particularly likes the other, and they're always open to hostilities at a pindrop, but cooperation has not historically been unheard of.

Chaos is a greater threat to both the Eldar and Imperium than either are to each other, and thus they cooperate against the forces of Chaos when required. It's all about self interest. The filthy Xenos/Mon-keigh can be dealt with...later, some time after they've dealt with the gibbering horrors of unreality born from their own twisted collective minds

Bharring wrote:
In other words, is there an "arrow of time" for the progression of Warp entities separate from the "arrow of time" of the Materium itself?

Seems to be an arrow of time for the Materium, a Jeremy Bearimy situation for everything else.

 Vaktathi wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
What happened to the old policy of killing any non-human Xenos life on sight? Does that still apply now or do we need to hold fire whenever we encounter Eldar just because they revived Gulliman and their clowns helped bring him to Earth.

Why are the Eldar bringing back Primarchs and opening helping humans? Is the official IoM policy to still kill them as despised enemies of humanity?

Considering Imperial Inquisitors even sometimes WORK with the clown varient of the Eldar and their library... how is that not insane heresy? Humans cannot work with any form of Xenos. That is heresy.

The Imperium worked with the Eldar many times over the course of 40k history, especially during Black Crusades.

Neither particularly likes the other, and they're always open to hostilities at a pindrop, but cooperation has not historically been unheard of.

Chaos is a greater threat to both the Eldar and Imperium than either are to each other, and thus they cooperate against the forces of Chaos when required. It's all about self interest. The filthy Xenos/Mon-keigh can be dealt with...later, some time after they've dealt with the gibbering horrors of unreality born from their own twisted collective minds

My issue has been the portrayal of many Inquisitors as little more than Ecclesiarchy recordings of the xenophobic party line. Sure, there are some Monodominants but they are just one faction. Of all people in the Imperium, Inquisitors are supposed to be the ones that show the most subtlety and flexibility in thinking, including a willingness to bend the rules and overlook smaller matters for the sake of the far greater threat. One cannot investigate conspiracies and cults by blundering around and smashing everything like a sledgehammer. That would only drive their opponents into hiding or they only end up smashing expendable pawns without getting to the heart of the matter.

In other words, while the average indoctrinated Imperial soldier or citizen might have a rabid xenophobic stance, the higher up you go in the Imperial hierarchy, the more pragmatic flexibility there should be. A rigid dogmatic person would have difficulty succeeding or fending off intrigues from others.

Are Eldar and humans compatible?? Sexually? 2nd edition fluff was some high heresy right there.. Wow.

Humans hate Eldar just as much as Chaos and Tyranids. Let the imperium hate AGAIN!

Is G-man thinking they are possible long term allies just because they revived him and saved him from the warp? G-man should be removed for heresy.

DorianGray wrote:
Are Eldar and humans compatible?? Sexually? 2nd edition fluff was some high heresy right there.. Wow.

Humans hate Eldar just as much as Chaos and Tyranids. Let the imperium hate AGAIN!

Is G-man thinking they are possible long term allies just because they revived him and saved him from the warp? G-man should be removed for heresy.

A thoroughly one-dimensional and boring outlook.

w1zard wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
Are Eldar and humans compatible?? Sexually? 2nd edition fluff was some high heresy right there.. Wow.

Humans hate Eldar just as much as Chaos and Tyranids. Let the imperium hate AGAIN!

Is G-man thinking they are possible long term allies just because they revived him and saved him from the warp? G-man should be removed for heresy.

A thoroughly one-dimensional and boring outlook.

I suspect it was a joke.

They may never get on. They may never be friends, allows or really respect eachother on the whole but right now they lack the resources to really kill them off, the eldat lack the scale to fight them on a large scale and there's fat bigger fish to fry.

At end of day, they have to agree to disagree a skittle to avoid genocide and doom. Plus the impirum might be some giant dumb gorilla to the Eldat but that dumb gorilla is taking some of the casualties and so instead of them. They would not last long if it fell and chaos had a free hand.

There in best of a bad lot. Support humans abit. Get one 800 pound dumb gorilla meat sheild to take some of the hits.

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

Except that before the super Grim Dark - the Eldar were often temporary allies of the Imperium and there is mention of Ambasadors and similar diplomatic missions between the two races - but as GW focussed mroe and more and Marine bolter porn so that sort of thing was dropped.

The Eldar and Imperium are not allies, they have the same enemy - as there were in the Horus Heresy.

There is a nice quote from the commander of a Phantom Titan = something like: "Humans, we are not here to fight with you but rather against Horus"

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

Except that before the super Grim Dark - the Eldar were often temporary allies of the Imperium and there is mention of Ambasadors and similar diplomatic missions between the two races - but as GW focussed mroe and more and Marine bolter porn so that sort of thing was dropped.

The Eldar and Imperium are not allies, they have the same enemy - as there were in the Horus Heresy.

There is a nice quote from the commander of a Phantom Titan = something like: "Humans, we are not here to fight with you but rather against Horus"

Yeah they sided with Eldar, and others even for short amounts of time. In waragh of beast a small number of iron warrior and inpirial fists had a temporary truce to take on the orks as it was do that or die.

And they have equal really bad blood with each other.

There plenty of instances where praggmatitam has beaten fanaticism for a short time. Some threats are too big and nasty to ignore.

"The enemy of my enemy is a lower-priority target."

 Duskweaver wrote:
"The enemy of my enemy is a lower-priority target."

Genius.

-

You can't smite the unclean if you're dead.

pm713 wrote:
I'd think that the only gods of death left are Nurgle and some forms of the Emperor.

Nurgle is the god of life, not death. Life, in all its, slimey, crawly, infectious forms. Nurgle loves you. And he loves that cute fungal infection eating away at your skin, causing it to slough off. And he loves the parasites that feed, and frolic and multiply in those dead skin flakes etc.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Humanity at large is still anti-xenos. The more progressive types are just in a more favorable relationship with a very small sub-sub group of Eldar weirdos. It remains mostly the same anti-alien for the rest of the Eldar. You probably have some Imperial parties that don’t care about that better relationship, though, and they would just kill them, given the chance.

Inquisitors do whatever the frack they want, they ain’t gotta explain gack. Sometimes Inquistors bind daemons and harness chaos powers.

Yeah I remember that. Eldars had 3 portals to their heaven. One was on talaran. A bad idea once all the inhabitants of heaven been eaten/turned into slanesh as god of hedonistic psykers tend to do.

 Karhedron wrote:

pm713 wrote:
I'd think that the only gods of death left are Nurgle and some forms of the Emperor.

Nurgle is the god of life, not death. Life, in all its, slimey, crawly, infectious forms. Nurgle loves you. And he loves that cute fungal infection eating away at your skin, causing it to slough off. And he loves the parasites that feed, and frolic and multiply in those dead skin flakes etc.

My bad. I think it's forgivable to mix up death with constant disease, decay and rot which is largely based on someones death..

pm713 wrote:

w1zard wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
Are Eldar and humans compatible?? Sexually? 2nd edition fluff was some high heresy right there.. Wow.

Humans hate Eldar just as much as Chaos and Tyranids. Let the imperium hate AGAIN!

Is G-man thinking they are possible long term allies just because they revived him and saved him from the warp? G-man should be removed for heresy.

A thoroughly one-dimensional and boring outlook.

I suspect it was a joke.

Maybe, but I do know people IRL who unironically think this.

Don't let the propaganda fool you. The Eldar have always been Imperial allies.

It's pretty much stated in almost every main rulebook that the Eldar are more often allied with the Imperium than they fight them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

usmcmidn wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Fun fact, the Ultramarines famous chief librarian, Tigurius was originally a half-Eldar, this being the cause of his psychic affinity.

My, how times change.

His dad got it on with a Farseer.... Bow-Chick-A-Wow-Wow

#

Actually it was his mom.

The standard template for human/eldar relations has generally bean a deadbeat eldar dad with human women, for mankind is but a teenage girl compared to the Bowie-eldar.