Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Argive wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Would not using the scenic base be considered "modelling for advantage"?

Love the new Drazhar otherwise.

How is the scenic base an advantage exactly? He doesnt have any shooting afaik so its not helping him draw LOS to anything.

Did I say it was?

I was implying that I would like to leave the scenic base off the model for aesthetic reasons, but I'm concerned that in doing so I might be accused of modelling for advantage as the model would overall be smaller, and so potentially easier to hide.

People need to stop caring about 'modelling for advantage' accusations, especially in such minor examples. It's hard to have a go at GW for discouraging customisation/conversions when players are doing that to themselves for no reason.

If anybody seriously made that accusation because that tiny bit of scenery was not modelled on I think I'd have to laugh out loud and tell them fine you always have los to him.

 Argive wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Would not using the scenic base be considered "modelling for advantage"?

Love the new Drazhar otherwise.

How is the scenic base an advantage exactly? He doesnt have any shooting afaik so its not helping him draw LOS to anything.

harder to shoot him with snipers if hes shorter, you can hide him behind smaller terrain than the base model (with the base)

PenitentJake wrote:
Surprised about how many people don't like it; Drazhar was always associated with Incubi, but never looked like one. Now he does, and that's appropriate, because it matches the background.

Well, if it would help I can give you some reasons why I personally don't like the new model:

- The armour is barely distinguishable from that of an ordinary Incubi. Given his fluff, I was hoping to see something much more interesting. It's often depicted as being adorned with blades, yet here it looks basically identical to that of a standard Incubus.

- Drazhar is supposed to be "taller and more lithe" compared to other Incubi. The model, if anything, looks bulkier.

- Waaaaay too many pointless embellishments. This absolutely kills him for me as it goes against everything in his fluff. Drazhar doesn't speak. Drazhar doesn't eat. Drazhar doesn't speak. He has *never* been shown collecting gaudy trophies to adorn his armour. He has no need to brag about his accomplishments. I'd be fine with him having a couple of trophies but his whole soulstone-necklace just looks ridiculous.

- The Master of Blades apparently has no clue how swords work.

- Actually, are we sure he isn't the Master of Pointless Tassels?

- The top horns seem far too large.

- The artwork in both the 3rd and 5th edition books depicted him almost as a creature. As others have said, the 3rd edition art (and model) looked like something by H. R. Giger. It didn't just look like he was wielding blades - it looked like his blades were a part of him. And even his pose was reminiscent of a praying mantis (again invoking the idea of a person who is more akin to a creature, driven by instinct and living only to kill). Even the 5th edition artwork (which has him in a less-animalistic pose) nevertheless evokes images of creatures from the dark depths of the ocean.

In contrast, the new art and model are just boring. Drazhar just looks like an ordinary dude with stupid hair.

PenitentJake wrote:

Furthermore, the old model had no abdomen. Between his hips and his ribs, there was nothing but a spine. Seriously- the diameter of his thigh is thicker than the diameter of his abdomen. And yeah, one horn up and one down?

To be fair, the lack of an abdomen might actually make a lot of sense.

Agreed about the horns though.

PenitentJake wrote:

I'm just surprised- I can't actually imagine anyone liking the old model. My reaction would be similar if someone told me they liked the old plastic kabalites from the original 40k box set better than the new ones.

I like aspects of the old model but I've got no nostalgic attachment to it.

My issue is that for the new model, I wanted this Drazhar:




Not this Drazhar:

harlokin wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Would not using the scenic base be considered "modelling for advantage"?

Love the new Drazhar otherwise.

How is the scenic base an advantage exactly? He doesnt have any shooting afaik so its not helping him draw LOS to anything.

Did I say it was?

I was implying that I would like to leave the scenic base off the model for aesthetic reasons, but I'm concerned that in doing so I might be accused of modelling for advantage as the model would overall be smaller, and so potentially easier to hide.

Misunderstood. Sorry i thought you meant him being on the base is an advantage.

VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Would not using the scenic base be considered "modelling for advantage"?

Love the new Drazhar otherwise.

How is the scenic base an advantage exactly? He doesnt have any shooting afaik so its not helping him draw LOS to anything.

harder to shoot him with snipers if hes shorter, you can hide him behind smaller terrain than the base model (with the base)

Yeah i didint consider that.

Hellebore wrote:
I Think that they'll kill Jain Zar one more time and then resurrect her as a Phoenix lord of ynnead....

Killing just re-released 1994 Craftworlds model to then make her Ynnari or something would piss off a lot of-

yeah, I can see this being in spirit of GW and xenos treatment I admit.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:


- The artwork in both the 3rd and 5th edition books depicted him almost as a creature. As others have said, the 3rd edition art (and model) looked like something by H. R. Giger. It didn't just look like he was wielding blades - it looked like his blades were a part of him. And even his pose was reminiscent of a praying mantis (again invoking the idea of a person who is more akin to a creature, driven by instinct and living only to kill). Even the 5th edition artwork (which has him in a less-animalistic pose) nevertheless evokes images of creatures from the dark depths of the ocean.

In contrast, the new art and model are just boring. Drazhar just looks like an ordinary dude with stupid hair.

See, this is what makes me barking mad. For Jain Zar, they pretty much went exactly with the oldschool design, which for me doesn't really work.

Then, for Drazhar, they dediced to ditch the old design when I had hoped for an iteration of it.

This time, I got screwed twice in one go

 BertBert wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:


- The artwork in both the 3rd and 5th edition books depicted him almost as a creature. As others have said, the 3rd edition art (and model) looked like something by H. R. Giger. It didn't just look like he was wielding blades - it looked like his blades were a part of him. And even his pose was reminiscent of a praying mantis (again invoking the idea of a person who is more akin to a creature, driven by instinct and living only to kill). Even the 5th edition artwork (which has him in a less-animalistic pose) nevertheless evokes images of creatures from the dark depths of the ocean.

In contrast, the new art and model are just boring. Drazhar just looks like an ordinary dude with stupid hair.

See, this is what makes me barking mad. For Jain Zar, they pretty much went exactly with the oldschool design, which for me doesn't really work.

Then, for Drazhar, they dediced to ditch the old design when I had hoped for an iteration of it.

This time, I got screwed twice in one go

Jain Zar is fine, but the new Draznar is kind of disappointing to me too.
Ofcourse after you paint the models you will love them

 BertBert wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:


- The artwork in both the 3rd and 5th edition books depicted him almost as a creature. As others have said, the 3rd edition art (and model) looked like something by H. R. Giger. It didn't just look like he was wielding blades - it looked like his blades were a part of him. And even his pose was reminiscent of a praying mantis (again invoking the idea of a person who is more akin to a creature, driven by instinct and living only to kill). Even the 5th edition artwork (which has him in a less-animalistic pose) nevertheless evokes images of creatures from the dark depths of the ocean.

In contrast, the new art and model are just boring. Drazhar just looks like an ordinary dude with stupid hair.

See, this is what makes me barking mad. For Jain Zar, they pretty much went exactly with the oldschool design, which for me doesn't really work.

Then, for Drazhar, they dediced to ditch the old design when I had hoped for an iteration of it.

This time, I got screwed twice in one go

Im sorry but whaaaat... jain zar done old style not ok because you wanted something new. Drazhar done new not ok necause you wanted old? Each to their own but i see a "i wouldint like these models no matter what"

 Argive wrote:


Im sorry but whaaaat... jain zar done old style not ok because you wanted something new. Drazhar done new not ok necause you wanted old? Each to their own but i see a "i wouldint like these models no matter what"

That's how personal preference works sometimes

Please keep in mind that this is very much a tongue in cheek comment.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/06/coming-next-week-aeldari-psychic-awakening-and-more/

So the format in which banshees will be released has been announced... Its a box set of CWE Vs DE...

Thoughts?

My Take on this:

Admitedly the vyper and falcon are very lacklustre in the rules at the moment, but according to the gumph about the first campaign book (which is basically ynari codex reprinted in hardback ?)
They are giving us a bunch of new rules for aspect powers, psychic discipline, build your own craftworld SM style and re-working datasheets for some of the units (100% banshees jain zar and the incubi & Incubi Lv 2 guy aka drazhar).

So this could mean the falcon and vyper will not be entirely useless and get new rules. It seems a bit sucky to release it is CWE Vs DE box and only give us 5 banshees..... I personally have no interest in the DE side and really the falcon doesn't interest me all that much either. The vyper Im actually happy with as was planing on making a little squadron or two. Plus the vyper is a sweet model despite its age.

I have a feeling there will be a lot of DE halfs of this box going on ebay very soon.. so it means I am unlikely to make my money back as I would want 10 banshees obviously.. This is pretty frustrating and we have no idea when these will be available for sale on their own.. Chaos players waiting for new oblitorators..Soo... Ya know., not filled with confidence..

It a box to sell models that are terrible in game.

Sadly i'll get it. Mostly b.c it will be cheaper than normal, i'm guess 180USD for 250USD worth of models, and with a discount i should be only paying 150 for it, the 4 new units are about that price anyways. (Just guessing)

BUT the last bit of information in the video has me excited.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
It a box to sell models that are terrible in game.

Sadly i'll get it. Mostly b.c it will be cheaper than normal, i'm guess 180USD for 250USD worth of models, and with a discount i should be only paying 150 for it, the 4 new units are about that price anyways. (Just guessing)

BUT the last bit of information in the video has me excited.

Are you referring to the bit about yrvaine being hunted by slanesh creature and it all "coming to a crescendo"?

Personally, I hope that means the death of Yrrvaine death of ynarri concept bringing the failed experiment to an end..And then maybe they can stick to making cool CWE units without trying to push the narative that eldar just run towards death like mindless lemings because of plot... The new short story "the path" was so stupid it made me hurt on the inside.. Obv everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I know a lot of people will disagree.

They're not gonna kill a special character with such a new model.

 Crimson wrote:
They're not gonna kill a special character with such a new model.

They could kill her off or at least insinuate shes dead with hints that's shes "lost" and drag it out over 5 years though right ??

I don't see why they could not rebrand the models as other things.. You know.. kind of like prince yriel is our fine cast autarch on foot model because there is no autarch on foot model?

Yrvaine - a farseer with familiar.

Visarch - Autarch on foot with powersword

Incarnate - Generic avatar of ynead/snalesh/khaine..

Problem solved. Still have use for models still sell models.

My guess about the "coming to a crescendo" will be a harlequin release (considering they have an ability called rising crescendo). I'm guessing the harlequins will arrive in time to save Yvrainne. That would be awesome if we get a harlequin vs slannesh box set

and re-working datasheets for some of the units

"For units that are important to narrative of the Campaign." So it's probably HQs. For example, Eldrad and Yriel being able to join Ynnari would make sense.

 AngryMedic wrote:
My guess about the "coming to a crescendo" will be a harlequin release (considering they have an ability called rising crescendo). I'm guessing the harlequins will arrive in time to save Yvrainne. That would be awesome if we get a harlequin vs slannesh box set

If I had to make a guess, I'd say Harlequins will probably be 'paired off' with Thousand Sons.

 Kanluwen wrote:

If I had to make a guess, I'd say Harlequins will probably be 'paired off' with Thousand Sons.

Huh? Why?

I'm looking at this box set and literally the only model I would have any use for is the Venom.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

If I had to make a guess, I'd say Harlequins will probably be 'paired off' with Thousand Sons.

Huh? Why?

Gut feeling.

Both are relatively complete, in terms of what they have based on their fluff/faction scale, but could use maybe a few characters or the like added to them...also, come on.

Harlequins defending the Black Library from Ahriman is kind of another Tuesday for them.

 Shadenuat wrote:

and re-working datasheets for some of the units

"For units that are important to narrative of the Campaign." So it's probably HQs. For example, Eldrad and Yriel being able to join Ynnari would make sense.

I could see that being the case.

However this whole book feels a bit like half arsed attempt at updating Eldar rules without doing the full work of actually bringing out a new codex.

It really feels like they went "ohh crap the SM codex & supplements is way too good compared to chaos and all the other stuff...Quick, mash some SM style of stuff together and get it out there so it seems like we are trying to balance and let other people think they are getting (*scraps* *cough) something too.

What makes me really not want to buy the books:

A) They filled it with ynari WD codex reprint.. If I wanted one ID just get that ?
B) It feels like they are strrapping a band aid on pandoras box that is the SM Codex/IH supplements and this is a stop gap before they roll out new wave of codexes. Much like the vigilius book is very much obsolete for marines.
C) As per point B I think whatever they do will clash with CA2019 and will have to be fixed with a new Eldar codex anyhow.

However I still want the models and will get the models. Looking at 2 boxes because I want 10 plastic banshees.. Probably keep the vypers, banshees and 1x jain zar but sell everything else. Unlikely to break close to even but something..

Now I'm normally not ati-GW. I understand they are a business and I'm a customer and I can always do other stuff with my money but am happy to give them some of my money for the nice toys they make. But for the most part this whole thing feels very.. Slapsticky.. I think the design team has no passion for Xenos or Eldar in particular and its realy showing glaringly in this one.

Looks like this box was made to clear out old inventory

I always have a use for the extra grav tank chassis, but feth me vypers are lame

Cruddace: falcons... shoot three times if moved. if you take a vyper squadron for each falcon, vypers do exploding hits on 2s.

 Argive wrote:

I could see that being the case.

However this whole book feels a bit like half arsed attempt at updating Eldar rules without doing the full work of actually bringing out a new codex.

It really feels like they went "ohh crap the SM codex & supplements is way too good compared to chaos and all the other stuff...Quick, mash some SM style of stuff together and get it out there so it seems like we are trying to balance and let other people think they are getting (*scraps* *cough) something too.

That literally cannot be the case. They can't have a book coming out before the last two supplements even hit, based upon your tinfoil hattery.

What makes me really not want to buy the books:

A) They filled it with ynari WD codex reprint.. If I wanted one ID just get that ?

Cool, good for you! White Dwarf, once it sells out, doesn't get reprinted. That's something people have been whining about for awhile now--this is a way for those people who missed it to get the rules now.

B) It feels like they are strrapping a band aid on pandoras box that is the SM Codex/IH supplements and this is a stop gap before they roll out new wave of codexes. Much like the vigilius book is very much obsolete for marines.
C) As per point B I think whatever they do will clash with CA2019 and will have to be fixed with a new Eldar codex anyhow.

Gee, if only people could have seen the writing on the wall with the way that Black Legion and Renegades got rules with Vigilus Ablaze...

This isn't a "stopgap" before they roll out a new wave of codices. This is them testbedding it first.

However I still want the models and will get the models. Looking at 2 boxes because I want 10 plastic banshees.. Probably keep the vypers, banshees and 1x jain zar but sell everything else. Unlikely to break close to even but something..

Now I'm normally not ati-GW. I understand they are a business and I'm a customer and I can always do other stuff with my money but am happy to give them some of my money for the nice toys they make. But for the most part this whole thing feels very.. Slapsticky.. I think the design team has no passion for Xenos or Eldar in particular and its realy showing glaringly in this one.

Or they have no release slots for a whole range revamp this late in the year.

I am perfectly happy to buy me some playtesting for aspect warriors if that gets them shitton of new abilities.

Id jump on this book in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the fact they obviously fillered it with WD ynari reprint and some DE stuff tahts not relvant to me..so the actual content is probably going to be very underwhelming.

The make your own craft world rules are very intriguing and Im pretty excited about that! However its yet another bloaty thing. They could have just made a new bloody codex... so frustrating.

Ynnari is 3 datasheets and 2 pages of relics and stratagems. Like whatever. Who cares.

All new rules for all Eldar in 1 book. Looks perfect to me.

Custom Craftworlds is also great. Even if they won't be better than main ones, you could use them as a substitute and take what you need, not what GW designer thinks you need.

 Argive wrote:
Id jump on this book in a heartbeat if it wasn't for the fact they obviously fillered it with WD ynari reprint and some DE stuff tahts not relvant to me..so the actual content is probably going to be very underwhelming.

The make your own craft world rules are very intriguing and Im pretty excited about that! However its yet another bloaty thing. They could have just made a new bloody codex... so frustrating.

Just remember this statement if you ever complain about Marine codices being too many.

There's a reason the supplements just happened. That book was bloat, with a large percentage of it being Ultramarines only.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Cool, good for you! White Dwarf, once it sells out, doesn't get reprinted. That's something people have been whining about for awhile now--this is a way for those people who missed it to get the rules now.

Here's an alternative idea - how about using this opportunity to actually fix their rules instead of taking the laziest possible route?