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What makes you think we'll waste our shekels on this book?

deTox91 wrote:
Given that nobody but Marines is getting any passive army wide buff and "spend 2 CP to give this forever aura to this character" type of things, it's literally impossible that TS will get anything broken, you could print the strongest stratagem in the history of WH40k and still a one off trick would never compare to 5/6 passive game long effects sadly.

The Flesh Change (2 CP): Replace all enemy ADEPTUS ASTARTES models with Rubric Marines (pg. 9).

deTox91 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

only if you define "DOA" as "not immediatly breaking the meta and gaining a 70% win rating"

Or, the actual definition he's using of something your would never use because it requires to trade away something that's already better.

A hundred new warlord traits would change nothing unless they are better than the existing ones when you are limited to, because only they best matters.

And when you mix the fact TS apperantly only get replacement, with no add ons, and to top it off they are limited to highly spesific bundles-we are not going to see TS move away from "supcom only", as efficiently the army gained nothing.

I was refering to sisters, a codex I have and am happy with, I'm withholding judgement on 1k sons until we get the full picture. (seriously, you're proably right that 1k sons isn't going to be all that amazing but for all we know there's some brokenly OP stuff in there that'll make iron hands look like 8th edition grey knights) but sisters I feel are in a pretty good place. they've got some weaknesses but the army over all seems to synergize pretty well

Given that nobody but Marines is getting any passive army wide buff and "spend 2 CP to give this forever aura to this character" type of things, it's literally impossible that TS will get anything broken, you could print the strongest stratagem in the history of WH40k and still a one off trick would never compare to 5/6 passive game long effects sadly.
Damn buying this DA/GK codex will really feel bad for TS players, which is the thing that probably annoys me the most, I don't care that they are getting all the cool rules, but just print them in their own DA supplement instead of forcing NPC factions to buy marine staff for subpar rules that you'll get to see side by side in the same book

Sisters got army wide mono faction buffs. But yeah a contrast and compare makes it seem a little cringe worthy, if GW put the statement out saying they expect chaos to soup hence don't get mono faction bonuses that would help, but be pr suicide probs.

 Jidmah wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
Given that nobody but Marines is getting any passive army wide buff and "spend 2 CP to give this forever aura to this character" type of things, it's literally impossible that TS will get anything broken, you could print the strongest stratagem in the history of WH40k and still a one off trick would never compare to 5/6 passive game long effects sadly.

The Flesh Change (2 CP): Replace all enemy ADEPTUS ASTARTES models with Rubric Marines (pg. 9).

*spawn.
Also, the great rubricae, all spawn get replaced with rubric marines under the casters controll.

Spoletta wrote:
All the PA until now gave only horizontal buffs (except for marines), i don't know why people are expecting something different this time.

eh, it's just the same continuous amazement that GW is looking to buff the power of all loyalist marine factions by about 25% while keeping everyone else the same when they teased "something for everyone" out of this book series.

Honestly, besides their couple of very strong HQs, Thousand Sons are in an identical spot to something like GK. Their biggest strength was the fact that they could opt to not take any marines at all while still being technically the Thousand Sons faction (thanks to cultists/tzaangors/daemon princes). And, also like GK, their chapter tactic could have literally just been written in to the stats of their psychic powers, and you even get powers where GW purposefully reduces them to account for the existence of the chapter tactic so you get nothing (for example: The newly revealed Thousand Sons psychic power that is the same as the orks "Da Jump", the same warp charge cost, but it's 6" lower range because Tsons chapter tactic is +6" range on psychic powers).

They're 1W astartes that are mini-psykers, as expensive as primaris marines, with a gimmick that's massively overshadowed by the new Doctrine buffs.

"Rubrics are as expensive as primaris because they get those sweet AP-2 boltguns! Oh, it's turn 2.....all the intercessors have AP-2 boltguns too...rats."

It kind of abstractly sucks from some kind of xenos perspective, where you've got all these fancy marine rules that are better versions of all your gimmicks, but it's really crazy where you're sitting there looking at two units that are EXACTLY the SAME, and exactly the same level of non-functional, and GW recognizes that and buffs one while in the exact same book leaving the other alone.

Because rules balance patches being sold in fething 40$ hardback books just isn't enough - you have to buy a codex, AND a chapter approved for your points changes, AND a campaign book to have all your stratagems and relics and such, AND an eventual codex 2.0 (3.0 for CSM :^) ) if you want corrected functional chapter tactics that work on your vehicles.

tneva82 wrote:

rhavien wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Too bad extra relics and warlord traits aren’t very useful since only space marines are able to just spend CP on a 1:1 basis to take more of each. I fail to see how either are considered “more content” when you’re restricted to 1 warlord trait and generally 2 relics. If these aren’t atleast the same as existing TS options then they’re basically doa.

Sisters as well.

BA didn't get the 1:1 relic strat either. As we are playing with two books right now and the first was written without the knowledge that a second will come out later, I guess GW just don't want to change any existing strats. I would bet that it will be the same for DA, GK and SW later on.

PA isn't codex though. When BA codex 2.0 comes it's there. Of course that could be a while but then again might not. It's marines.

Uhh God do you really think they will further clog the scedule with yet more Marine Codexes after all these not Marine Supplements ? Its very annoying they did not sort stuff like the 1 CP= 1 relic in these. But then if they had been actual supplements we would not be having this discussion..........

the_scotsman;

"Da jump" is a 6-inch range in the Ork codex. The spell T-Sons from Cult of Duplicity is *Identical* in every way to Da Jump. Except T-Sons also get the +6 inch cast on top of it. The Thousand Son variant, in this case, is straight better due to the range bonus.

Also, Rubrics are the tiniest hair cheaper than Primaris marines per model. 16ppm as opposed to 17. Inbuilt +1 to save against D1 weaponry, a psyker in every squad with spell access, and a not insubstantial invulnerable (5++) that also increases against D1 weaponry. To go along with those *sweet* ap-2 guns. What else precisely do they need to be decent? I have played against the new marine codex a few times (salamanders and raven guard) and the Rubrics were the star of the show both games.

Not saying they are going to win me tourneys (though they have in fact done that in some regional tourneys I am aware of) but they are not scrubs on the table by any stretch of the imagination.

Unless you have a copy of the Ritual of the Damned speaking to "buffed" rubrics is difficult, we haven't seen the strats, or even the full list of Cults. we have seen 1 Cult in full (Duplicity) and 3 things each from different cults. This is far, far, FAR too early to be making such assumptions.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Uhh God do you really think they will further clog the scedule with yet more Marine Codexes after all these not Marine Supplements ? Its very annoying they did not sort stuff like the 1 CP= 1 relic in these. But then if they had been actual supplements we would not be having this discussion..........

Sooner or later yes. Do you really think they will stop doing new codexes forever?

Of course if they stop doing marine codexes that will also mean no more non-marine codexes. Or do you think they will be doing new eldar codex mark 5 while blood angels still in mark 1 codex?-) As if.

Ahriman21 wrote:
the_scotsman;
Also, Rubrics are the tiniest hair cheaper than Primaris marines per model. 16ppm as opposed to 17. Inbuilt +1 to save against D1 weaponry, a psyker in every squad with spell access, and a not insubstantial invulnerable (5++) that also increases against D1 weaponry. To go along with those *sweet* ap-2 guns. What else precisely do they need to be decent? I have played against the new marine codex a few times (salamanders and raven guard) and the Rubrics were the star of the show both games.

Also they are forced to take a force weapon that bumps the squad costs by 8 points making them more expensive if you compare units, have 6" less range on the guns (12 compared to DA) half the wounds, half the attacks and also one gun less as the sorcerer has only a pistol.

They are not bad mind you, but very far from the point efficiency of Intercessor marines

Also, they don't get to pile up chapter tactics and doctrines that intercessors do, if we are making comparisons.

They are good enough when they don't have to compete with these factors, but in reality they do.

deTox91 wrote:

Ahriman21 wrote:
the_scotsman;
Also, Rubrics are the tiniest hair cheaper than Primaris marines per model. 16ppm as opposed to 17. Inbuilt +1 to save against D1 weaponry, a psyker in every squad with spell access, and a not insubstantial invulnerable (5++) that also increases against D1 weaponry. To go along with those *sweet* ap-2 guns. What else precisely do they need to be decent? I have played against the new marine codex a few times (salamanders and raven guard) and the Rubrics were the star of the show both games.

Also they are forced to take a force weapon that bumps the squad costs by 8 points making them more expensive if you compare units, have 6" less range on the guns (12 compared to DA) half the wounds, half the attacks and also one gun less as the sorcerer has only a pistol.

They are not bad mind you, but very far from the point efficiency of Intercessor marines

The only other thing Rubrics should get is move and shoot as stationary for bolters.

Said Primaris tackling Rubrics in cover have a 50/50 of killing one. With spell the rubrics can kill an Intercessor in cover. This assumes both units double tap. So you're down to range considerations.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

deTox91 wrote:

Ahriman21 wrote:
the_scotsman;
Also, Rubrics are the tiniest hair cheaper than Primaris marines per model. 16ppm as opposed to 17. Inbuilt +1 to save against D1 weaponry, a psyker in every squad with spell access, and a not insubstantial invulnerable (5++) that also increases against D1 weaponry. To go along with those *sweet* ap-2 guns. What else precisely do they need to be decent? I have played against the new marine codex a few times (salamanders and raven guard) and the Rubrics were the star of the show both games.

Also they are forced to take a force weapon that bumps the squad costs by 8 points making them more expensive if you compare units, have 6" less range on the guns (12 compared to DA) half the wounds, half the attacks and also one gun less as the sorcerer has only a pistol.

They are not bad mind you, but very far from the point efficiency of Intercessor marines

The only other thing Rubrics should get is move and shoot as stationary for bolters.

Said Primaris tackling Rubrics in cover have a 50/50 of killing one. With spell the rubrics can kill an Intercessor in cover. This assumes both units double tap. So you're down to range considerations.

This I assume is with normal bolters, how does the killing of rubric in cover change if we consider the stalker bolt rifle at AP -3 that negates all is dust? is it roughly the same given that it halves the shots?

I have seen no marine player using Stalker Bolt Rifles.

Then again I don't have any Iron Hands players locally so perhaps that is why.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

deTox91 wrote:

Ahriman21 wrote:
the_scotsman;
Also, Rubrics are the tiniest hair cheaper than Primaris marines per model. 16ppm as opposed to 17. Inbuilt +1 to save against D1 weaponry, a psyker in every squad with spell access, and a not insubstantial invulnerable (5++) that also increases against D1 weaponry. To go along with those *sweet* ap-2 guns. What else precisely do they need to be decent? I have played against the new marine codex a few times (salamanders and raven guard) and the Rubrics were the star of the show both games.

Also they are forced to take a force weapon that bumps the squad costs by 8 points making them more expensive if you compare units, have 6" less range on the guns (12 compared to DA) half the wounds, half the attacks and also one gun less as the sorcerer has only a pistol.

They are not bad mind you, but very far from the point efficiency of Intercessor marines

Squad of Rubrics (with aspiring, in ten man) is 168.

Squad of intercessors (10 man) is 170.

Obviously the Rubrics at that squad size will spend 10 points and get a Soul Reaper for sure. Makes the squad 178 and more then makes up for the loss of a bolter for its cost.

So its not as cut and dry though I agree that Intercessors due to the overlapping stacking traits + angels of death gets out of hand I have found that my Rubrics trade *Very* well with Intercessors as of the new marine book.

So Dark Angels can get 6" charges now. Gotta love how GW nerfs the charge from DS then gives it back to SM. Meanwhile Tyranids are stuck with the at best 8" charge with reroll.

deTox91 wrote:

This I assume is with normal bolters, how does the killing of rubric in cover change if we consider the stalker bolt rifle at AP -3 that negates all is dust? is it roughly the same given that it halves the shots?

5 IH stalkers do 1.3 regardless of cover.
8 inferno bolter shots do 1.3 to marines in cover. A soul reaper does 1.2 on its own.

Give rubrics move and shoot with bolters and they're golden.

Ahriman21 wrote:
I have seen no marine player using Stalker Bolt Rifles.

Oh boi c'mon down to where I play and lose all your sorcerers with a QUICKNESS lol.

Why ya'll comparing stalker dmg to Rubricae? They only get shot at when our sorcs die

 Brometheus wrote:

Ahriman21 wrote:
I have seen no marine player using Stalker Bolt Rifles.

Oh boi c'mon down to where I play and lose all your sorcerers with a QUICKNESS lol.

Why ya'll comparing stalker dmg to Rubricae? They only get shot at when our sorcs die

I don't think Intercessors with stalker bolt rifles can shot characters? It's just the free bolter replacement 36" Heavy 1 S4 -2 D2, unless there's some RG shenanigan that turns basic troops into snipers that I don't remember

The way GW is doing rules releases is quite possibly the worst it’s ever been. They have to get rid of the physical book restrictions on consolidating/upgrading rules as I am not convinced we will see a round 2 of books (and the cycle just starts anew anyway).

Even after last years chapter approved we still had unique rules in chapter approved 2017 for gsc. It’s insane.

 Kirasu wrote:


Even after last years chapter approved we still had unique rules in chapter approved 2017 for gsc. It’s insane.

I'm pretty sure they're considered to be superseded in the same way that the new marine codex replaces the old version. 3/4 of the GSC CA rules are identical to the codex, and they re-used the stratagem name of the 4th with a similar effect.

That’s why I mentioned last years and 2017s. Not this years chapter approved. It was before they got a codex and were the only army with rules in both chapter approved 2018 and 2017.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

deTox91 wrote:
Given that nobody but Marines is getting any passive army wide buff and "spend 2 CP to give this forever aura to this character" type of things, it's literally impossible that TS will get anything broken, you could print the strongest stratagem in the history of WH40k and still a one off trick would never compare to 5/6 passive game long effects sadly.

The Flesh Change (2 CP): Replace all enemy ADEPTUS ASTARTES models with Rubric Marines (pg. 9).

*spawn.
Also, the great rubricae, all spawn get replaced with rubric marines under the casters controll.

We all know the first strat would only work I they were TS Loyalists Chapters. So need a <Keyword> for some random SM chapter for it to work.
Then, for Great Rubric, you have to roll a d6 for each spawn. 1, it just dies. 2-5 it becomes a Rubric Marine, and on a 6 it becomes a Sorceror.

There. Those are rules GW would write.

So GW just previewed "Malecious volleys" on their facebook as part of RotD. This bodes poorly for the TS if the rules GW chose to previwe was the one we've had for months already -.-

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
So GW just previewed "Malecious volleys" on their facebook as part of RotD. This bodes poorly for the TS if the rules GW chose to previwe was the one we've had for months already -.-

Jokes on you, this is a sneaky preview for Rubikes, the new Thousand Sons BIKER keyword unit!

....or it's a super, super, impossibly lazy copy-paste copy-pasted into a rules preview by someone who hasn't played the game in ages and picked a random rule to preview.

Rubikes? Seems we've finally found the foil to the leaked SM nu-bikes!

PiñaColada wrote:
Rubikes? Seems we've finally found the foil to the leaked SM nu-bikes!

my dog that works for gw said they were like sweet centaurs but with rubric marines as the torso and a bike as the body. And they've got twin warp bolters for arms.

I wonder if Malicious Volleys will be their mono-faction bonus?

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
I wonder if Malicious Volleys will be their mono-faction bonus?

oh man that would be hilarious.

the_scotsman wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Rubikes? Seems we've finally found the foil to the leaked SM nu-bikes!

my dog that works for gw said they were like sweet centaurs but with rubric marines as the torso and a bike as the body. And they've got twin warp bolters for arms.

Great, now you have gone and made it so I actually kind of want to see this happen

Well somebody at GW is really having fun #TSDontDeserveNiceThings

Edit: I stand partially corrected, the start they previewed now is not bad, 1CP rubric or SoT shoot twice if they didn’t move, a 10 man SoT squad suddenly is becoming appealing

To be fair, now they're showing an "Infernal Fusillade" strat which is real good. 1CP shoot twice with RF weapons using a rubric or SOT unit if they stood still