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Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






When every unit in your army has the Angels of Death ability then they get the benefit of Combat Doctrines and if every unit in your army has the same sub-faction they benefit from an additional ability, we'll call these two things the Inheritance and the Army Bonus. I am in the middle of designing benefits for every sub-faction in the interim I imagine it could just be getting one of the relics of that sub-faction for free.

Inheritance of the Imperial Creed (Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Ministorum, Astra Cartographica, Deathwatch, Elucidian Starstriders, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum and Sisters of Silence) - Imperial Agents: Add 1 Ld to units with this ability.
Spoiler:

Argent Shroud Detachment Bonus - Deeds, Not Words: Each time an enemy unit is destroyed by a unit with this conviction, roll a D6. On a 4+ you gain a Faith Point.
Argent Shroud Army Bonus - Blessed by Bravery: Each time you take a Morale test (even if it is automatically passed) and no models flee gain 1 CP.

Bloody Rose Detachment Bonus - Quick to Anger: Add 1 to the Strength and Attacks characteristics of a model with this conviction during any turn in which it made a charge move, was charged or performed a Heroic Intervention.
Bloody Rose Army Bonus - Fury of Scorned: Each time you take a Morale test (even if it is automatically passed) and no models flee that unit it may fall back and charge in the same turn until the end of your next turn.

Ebon Chalice Detachment Bonus - Daughters of the Emperor: Add 1 to the result of Tests of Faith for units with this conviction.
Ebon Chalice Army Bonus - True Conviction: Each time you take a Morale test (even if it is automatically passed) and no models flee that unit re-rolls failed Tests of Faith and Morale tests until the end of the next turn.

Our Martyred Lady Detachment Bonus - The Blood of Martyrs: Each time a unit with this conviction from your army is destroyed, you gain 1 Faith Point.
Our Martyred Lady Army Bonus - Pursuit of Martyrdom: Each time you take a Morale test (even if it is automatically passed) and no models flee that unit automatically passes Morale tests until the end of the next battle round.

Sacred Rose Detachment Bonus - Devout Serenity: A unit with this conviction can never lose more than a single model as the result of any single failed Morale test. In addition, when a model with this conviction fires Overwatch, a 5 or 6 is required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.
Sacred Rose Army Bonus - Tranquil Fury: Each time you take a Morale test (even if it is automatically passed) and no models flee that unit re-rolls failed wound rolls of 1 until the end of the next turn.

Valorous Heart Detachment Bonus - Stoic Endurance: Each time a model with this conviction loses a wound, roll a D6; on a 6 the wound is not lost.
Valorous Heart Army Bonus - By the Emperor's Grace: Each time you take a Morale test (even if it is automatically passed) and no models flee that unit adds 1 to the rolls for its Stoic Endurance ability until the end of the next battle round.

Spoiler:

Adeptus Custodes Detachment Bonus - Emperor’s Chosen: This unit’s invulnerable save is improved by 1 (to a maximum of 3+).
Adeptus Custodes Army Bonus - Brotherhood of Demigods: Re-roll dice rolls of 1 for charge rolls and hit rolls for units with this ability.

Deathwatch Detachment Bonus - Mission Tactic: Units with this ability gain a bonus during the battle depending on which Mission Tactics they are currently employing. Before the battle, pick one of the following Mission Tactics. The tactic you choose will remain active for the entire battle, though it may be possible to change tactics during the course of the battle (by using the Adaptive Tactics Stratagem, for example). As long as a tactic is active, it affects all units in your army that have the Mission Tactics ability.
Deathwatch Army Bonus - Theatre of Extermination: Whenever an enemy unit falls back from a unit with this ability that is not within 1" of any other units that unit may fight as if it was the fight phase before the unit falls back or shoot as if it was the shooting phase after the enemy falls back.

Grey Knights Detachment Bonus - Brotherhood of Psykers: Add 1 to psychic tests and Deny the Witch tests for units with this ability.
Grey Knights Army Bonus - The 666th Chapter: Models with this ability can enter from Reserves on turn 1 in matched play games and are not destroyed if they do not enter from Reserves before the end of turn 3.

Inheritance of the Omnissiah (Adeptus Mechanicus and Questor Mechanicus) - Grand Convocation: Gain 1 CP if your army includes a SKITARII unit, 1 CP if your army includes a CULT MECHANICUS unit and 1 CP if your army includes a QUESTOR MECHANICUS unit.
Spoiler:

Agripinaa Detachment Bonus - Staunch Defenders: When firing Overwatch, units with this dogma hit on a roll on 5+, instead of only 6, irrespective of modifiers.
Agripinaa Army Bonus - Fresh Legions: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for models with this ability.

Graia Detachment Bonus - Refusal to Yield: Roll a D6 each time a model with this dogma is slain or flees – on a 6 that model refuses to yield; either that model is not slain (and has 1 wound remaining), or that model does not flee. However, <FORGE WORLD> units with this dogma cannot Fall Back unless there is a friendly <FORGE WORLD> CHARACTER on the battlefield.
Graia Army Bonus - Enlightenment Through Murder: Gain 1 CP each time a unit with this ability destroys an enemy unit in the Fight phase.

Lucius Detachment Bonus - The Solar Blessing: When making saving throws, units with this dogma treat enemy attacks with an Armour Penetration characteristic of -1 as having an Armour Penetration of 0 instead.
Lucius Army Bonus - Supreme Armaments: Units with this ability can re-roll a single hit roll and wound roll each time they shoot or fight.

Mars Detachment Bonus - Glory to the Omnissiah: Each time you randomly determine which Canticle of the Omnissiah is being canted, roll two dice instead of one. All units with this dogma receive the benefit of both results, instead of just the result of the first dice (if a duplicate is rolled, no additional Canticle is canted this turn).
Mars Army Bonus - Hymn of Optimization: At the start of your turn each model with this ability recovers one wound lost earlier in the battle.

Metalica Detachment Bonus - Relentless March: If a unit with this dogma Advances, it can ignore the penalty for firing Assault weapons and treats all Rapid Fire weapons it is armed with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Rapid Fire 1 weapon is treated as an Assault 1 weapon).
Metalica Army Bonus - Seek and Destroy: When a unit with this ability causes one or more unsaved wounds that unit is marked until the end of the turn. Re-roll failed wound rolls and charge rolls made for units with this ability against units that are marked as long as the shooting or charging unit only shoots or charges that one unit.

Ryza Detachment Bonus - Red in Cog and Claw: You can re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for units with this dogma.
Ryza Army Bonus - Hymn of Prowess: Wound rolls of 5+ always succeed when made by a unit with this ability.

Stygies VIII Detachment Bonus - Shroud Protocols: Your opponent must subtract 1 from their hit rolls when shooting at units with this dogma if they are more than 12" away.
Stygies VIII Army Bonus - Disinformation Campaign: Your opponent cannot gain CP during your turn.

House Krast Detachment Bonus - Cold Fury: You can re-roll failed hit rolls in the Fight phase for a model with this Household Tradition during any turn in which it charged, was charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention. In addition, you can re-roll all failed hit rolls in the Fight phase for a model with this Household Tradition against TITANIC units.
House Krast Army Bonus - Calculated Vengeance: Increase the attacks characteristic of models with this ability by 0,5 for every wound it has lost this turn (rounding up).

House Raven Detachment Bonus - Relentless Advance: Models with this Household Tradition do not suffer the penalties to their hit rolls for Advancing and firing Assault weapons. Furthermore, during a turn in which a unit with this Household Tradition Advances, all of its Heavy weapons are treated as Assault weapons (e.g. a Heavy 3 weapon is treated as an Assault 3 weapon).
House Raven Army Bonus - Honour Inviolate: If a unit with this ability does not move more than half its Movement characteristic in your Movement phase it can re-roll failed hit rolls and wound rolls until the end of the turn.

House Taranis Detachment Bonus - Omnissiah’s Grace: Roll a dice each time a model with this Household Tradition loses a wound, unless that wound was lost as the result of a mortal wound; on a 6 the wound being rolled for is not lost.
House Taranis Army Bonus - Primus Ordinus: At the start of your turn each model with this ability recovers one wound lost earlier in the battle.

House Vulker Detachment Bonus - Firestorm Protocols: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for a model with this Household Tradition whenever you are resolving an attack with a ranged weapon that is targeting the closest enemy unit.
House Vulker Army Bonus - WIP

Astra Militarum - Hold the Line: A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal.
Spoiler:

Armageddon Detachment Bonus - Industrial Efficiency: INFANTRY units with this doctrine may double the number of attacks they make with Rapid Fire weapons at a range of up to 18", rather than half the weapon’s range as normal. VEHICLES with this doctrine treat attacks against them with an AP of -1 as having AP 0.
Armageddon Army Bonus - WIP:

Cadian Detachment Bonus - Born Soldiers: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the Shooting phase for units with this doctrine if they did not move in the previous Movement phase. If an INFANTRY unit with this doctrine is issued the ‘Take Aim!’ order and it did not move in the previous Movement phase, re-roll all failed hit rolls for the unit until the end of the phase instead.
Cadian Army Bonus - WIP:

Catachan Detachment Bonus - Brutal Strength: INFANTRY units with this doctrine add 1 to their Strength characteristic. In addition, they can add 1 to their Leadership characteristic if they are within 6" of a friendly CATACHAN OFFICER. Each time a VEHICLE with this doctrine fires a ranged weapon that makes a random number of attacks (e.g. Heavy D6, Heavy 2D6 etc.) you can re-roll one of the dice used to determine the number of attacks made.
Catachan Army Bonus - None:

Death Korps of Krieg Detachment Bonus - None.
Death Korps of Krieg Army Bonus - Toxic Battlefields: When a unit with this ability shoots or fights choose one of the units that it targets and roll a D6, on a roll of 4+ the target suffers a mortal wound.

Elysian Drop Troops Detachment Bonus - None.
Elysian Drop Troops Army Bonus - Precision Drop: Units with this ability can arrive more than 3" away when jumping out of a Valkyrie or arriving from Reinforcements instead of more than 9" away.

Militarum Tempestus Detachment Bonus - Storm Troopers: If a model with this doctrine is shooting a target at half range or less, it can make an extra shot with the same weapon, at the same target, for each hit roll of 6+ you make for that model. These extra shots do not themselves generate any more additional shots.
Militarum Tempestus Army Bonus - WIP:

Mordian Detachment Bonus - Parade Drill: If the base of every model in an INFANTRY unit with this doctrine is touching the base of at least one other model from the same unit, the unit has +1 Leadership and you can add 1 to hit rolls made for models in that unit when firing Overwatch. You can add 1 to hit rolls made for VEHICLES with this doctrine when firing Overwatch if they are within 3" of one or more other friendly MORDIAN VEHICLES. These modifiers to hit rolls are an exception to the normal rules which do not allow modifiers when making Overwatch shots – in such cases a result of 7 is also a successful hit.
Mordian Army Bonus - WIP:

Tallarn Detachment Bonus - Swift as the Wind: INFANTRY units with this doctrine can Advance and still shoot any weapon type (except Heavy weapons). When they do so, they do not suffer the usual penalties to hit rolls for Assault weapons. VEHICLES with this doctrine do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for moving and firing Heavy weapons. If a TITANIC VEHICLE with this doctrine Advances, it treats all Heavy weapons it is equipped with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Heavy D6 weapon is treated as an Assault D6 weapon).
Tallarn Army Bonus - WIP:

Valhallan Detachment Bonus - Grim Demeanour: INFANTRY units with this doctrine halve the number of models that flee, rounding up, if they fail a Morale test. VEHICLES with this doctrine that have a damage table double the number of Wounds they have remaining for the purposes of determining what their characteristics are.
Valhallan Army Bonus - WIP:

Vostroyan Detachment Bonus - Heirloom Weapons: Units with this doctrine can add 6" to the maximum range of Heavy or Rapid Fire weapons they fire which would normally have a range of 24" or more.
Vostroyan Army Bonus - WIP:

Inheritance of Sanguinius (Blood Angels and Blood Angels Successors) - Black Rage Unleashed: When a unit with this ability fails a Morale test and one or more models flees from the unit, the unit gains the Black Rage ability.
Spoiler:

Blood Angels Detachment Bonus - The Red Thirst Add 1 to wound rolls in the fight phase for units with this ability that charged, was charged or made a Heroic Intervention this turn.
Blood Angels Army Bonus - With Great Honour: Gain 1 CP the first time a unit with the Black Rage ability is destroyed each turn.

Successor Chapter Detachment Bonus: Choose The Red Thirst or two of the Successor Chapter Tactics on pg. 176-177 of Codex Space Marines.
Successor Chapter Army Bonus - With Great Honour

Inheritors of Lion El'Jonson (Dark Angels and Dark Angels Successors) - The First Angels: Add 1 to the AP of all attacks made by RAVENWING units turn 1. At the start of any of your turns after the first you may replace RAVENWING with DEATHWING. At the start of any turn, but at least one turn after you replace RAVENWING with DEATHWING you may replace it with all models that are neither DEATHWING nor RAVENWING.
Spoiler:

Dark Angels Detachment Bonus - Grim Resolve: You can re-roll all hit rolls of 1 for this unit whenever it shoots (including when firing Overwatch) so long as it did not move in its prior Movement phase. In addition, this unit can never lose more than one model as the result of any single failed Morale test.
Dark Angels Army Bonus - Tripartite Wings: Gain 3 CP if you have a Detachment containing only DEATHWING units with this ability, and 2 CP if you have a Detachment containing only RAVENWING units with this ability and 1 CP if you have a Detachment containing only units with this ability and no units that are DEATHWING or RAVENWING.

Successor Chapter Detachment Bonus: Choose Grim Resolve or two of the Successor Chapter Tactics on pg. 176-177 of Codex Space Marines.
Successor Chapter Army Bonus - Tripartite Wings.

Inheritance of Conquest (Questor Imperialis) - Honour in Death: Gain 1 CP each time a model with this ability is reduced to 0 wounds.
Spoiler:

House Cadmus Detachment Bonus - Hunters of the Foe: Re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for attacks made by models with this Household Tradition against units which only contain models with a Wounds characteristic of 12 or less.
House Cadmus Army Bonus - Huntsmasters: Add 1 to the attacks characteristic of models with this ability after they have destroyed 10 or more models.

House Griffith Detachment Bonus - Glory of the Charge: Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of a model with this Household Tradition during any turn in which it charged or performed a Heroic Intervention. In addition, a model with this Household Tradition can perform Heroic Interventions as if it were a CHARACTER.
House Griffith Army Bonus - Honoured Veterans: When no models in your army but Characters are left you can re-roll failed charge rolls for models with this ability.

House Hawkshroud Detachment Bonus - Oathkeepers: Models with this Household Tradition double the number of wounds they have remaining for the purposes of determining what characteristics to use on their damage table.
House Hawkshroud Army Bonus - Code of Honour: Make an additional hit roll with the same weapon for each hit roll of 6+ made in the Fight phase, these hit rolls cannot generate further hit rolls with this ability. .

House Mortan Detachment Bonus - Close-quarters Killers: Add l to hit rolls in the Fight phase for attacks made by a model with this Household Tradition during any turn in which it charged, was charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention.
House Mortan Army Bonus - Show No Mercy: Subtract 1 from the morale of enemy units.

House Terryn Detachment Bonus - Gallant Warriors: When determining the distance that a unit with this Household Tradition Advances or charges, roll an additional D6 and discard the lowest result.
House Terryn Army Bonus - Hungry for More: Reduce the damage characteristic of melee weapons used against models with this ability by 1 to a minimum of 1.

Space Wolves - Acute Senses: Add 1 to hit rolls in the first battle round for units with this ability.
Spoiler:

Space Wolves Detachment Bonus - Hunters Unleashed: In any turn in which a unit with this ability made a charge move, was charged or made a Heroic Intervention, you can add 1 to its hit rolls in the Fight phase. In addition, CHARACTERS with this ability can perform a Heroic Intervention if, after the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, there are any enemy units within 6" of them. They can move up to 6" when performing a Heroic Intervention, so long as they end the move closer to the nearest enemy model.
Space Wolves Army Bonus - Alpha Mentality: Increase the range of all Aura abilities to 12" if their range is less than 12".

Inheritance of Khorne - Tides of Blood: At the end of your opponent's Movement phase, any unit on the table that did not disembark or arrive on the table this turn and also did not move closer to the closest unit you control or is within 1" of a unit you control suffers 1 Mortal Wound.
Spoiler:

Chaos Daemons Army Benefit - Corrupting Touch: At the end of your Movement phase you Corrupt any Objectives you control, you will continue to control any corrupted Objectives until an enemy unit moves within 3" of the Corrupted Objective.

Thousand Sons and Death Guard Army Benefit - Path of Chaos: Roll on the Chaos Boon table in the Stratagems section of the relevant Codex whenever a unit with this ability destroys an enemy unit. If the unit contains a Champion then that model benefits from the Stratagem, if the unit contains more than one model and does not contain a Champion it does not benefit from this ability.

Legion creeds are like legion traits, except they are only active while within 6" of a character and only if your army contains no models from other factions or sub-factions

Alpha Legion Legion Creed - Confuse and Destroy: When a unit with this creed active destroys a unit within 3" of an objective or destroys a CHARACTER you gain 1CP.

Black Legion Legion Creed - Vengeance is best Served Cold: Units with this creed active can charge in a turn in which they Fell Back. When an enemy unit falls back from within 1" of a unit with this creed active and no other enemy units remain within 1", this unit can immediately shoot at the unit that fell back as if it were the shooting phase, subtracting 1 from all hit rolls for that attack.

Emperor’s Children Legion Creed - Flawless Perfection: Units with this creed active always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Iron Warriors Legion Creed - Iron Within, Iron Without: When a model with this creed active would lose a wound or flee, roll one D6; on a 6 that wound is not lost or that model does not flee.

Night Lords Legion Creed - Sending a Message: Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all models with this creed active if an enemy unit was destroyed this turn or if an enemy unit failed a morale test this game. Enemy units suffer a -1 penalty to their Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn when they take damage from a ranged weapon used by unit with this creed active.

Word Bearers Legion Creed - Vulgar Truths: When a unit with this creed active is destroyed you gain reinforcement points equal the points cost of the destroyed unit. Note that access to this creed is lost as soon as any Daemons are summoned.

Renegades and Heretics Army Benefit - In Service of Higher Powers: A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal. In addition, they gain the Fanatic ability.

Inheritance of Tzeentch - Changing Fatescape: Roll a D6 each time your opponent uses a Stratagem, on a D6 roll of 5+ your opponent loses 1 CP.
Spoiler:

Chaos Daemons Army Benefit - Corrupting Touch: At the end of your Movement phase you Corrupt any Objectives you control, you will continue to control any corrupted Objectives until an enemy unit moves within 3" of the Corrupted Objective.

Thousand Sons and Death Guard Army Benefit - Path of Chaos: Roll on the Chaos Boon table in the Stratagems section of the relevant Codex whenever a unit with this ability destroys an enemy unit. If the unit contains a Champion then that model benefits from the Stratagem, if the unit contains more than one model and does not contain a Champion it does not benefit from this ability.

Legion creeds are like legion traits, except they are only active while within 6" of a character and only if your army contains no models from other factions or sub-factions

Alpha Legion Legion Creed - Confuse and Destroy: When a unit with this creed active destroys a unit within 3" of an objective or destroys a CHARACTER you gain 1CP.

Black Legion Legion Creed - Vengeance is best Served Cold: Units with this creed active can charge in a turn in which they Fell Back. When an enemy unit falls back from within 1" of a unit with this creed active and no other enemy units remain within 1", this unit can immediately shoot at the unit that fell back as if it were the shooting phase, subtracting 1 from all hit rolls for that attack.

Emperor’s Children Legion Creed - Flawless Perfection: Units with this creed active always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Iron Warriors Legion Creed - Iron Within, Iron Without: When a model with this creed active would lose a wound or flee, roll one D6; on a 6 that wound is not lost or that model does not flee.

Night Lords Legion Creed - Sending a Message: Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all models with this creed active if an enemy unit was destroyed this turn or if an enemy unit failed a morale test this game. Enemy units suffer a -1 penalty to their Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn when they take damage from a ranged weapon used by unit with this creed active.

Word Bearers Legion Creed - Vulgar Truths: When a unit with this creed active is destroyed you gain reinforcement points equal the points cost of the destroyed unit. Note that access to this creed is lost as soon as any Daemons are summoned.

Renegades and Heretics Army Benefit - In Service of Higher Powers: A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal. In addition, they gain the Fanatic ability.

Inheritance of Nurgle - Festering Mire: Subtract 1 from the Movement characteristic of enemy units.
Spoiler:

Chaos Daemons Army Benefit - Corrupting Touch: At the end of your Movement phase you Corrupt any Objectives you control, you will continue to control any corrupted Objectives until an enemy unit moves within 3" of the Corrupted Objective.

Thousand Sons and Death Guard Army Benefit - Path of Chaos: Roll on the Chaos Boon table in the Stratagems section of the relevant Codex whenever a unit with this ability destroys an enemy unit. If the unit contains a Champion then that model benefits from the Stratagem, if the unit contains more than one model and does not contain a Champion it does not benefit from this ability.

Legion creeds are like legion traits, except they are only active while within 6" of a character and only if your army contains no models from other factions or sub-factions

Alpha Legion Legion Creed - Confuse and Destroy: When a unit with this creed active destroys a unit within 3" of an objective or destroys a CHARACTER you gain 1CP.

Black Legion Legion Creed - Vengeance is best Served Cold: Units with this creed active can charge in a turn in which they Fell Back. When an enemy unit falls back from within 1" of a unit with this creed active and no other enemy units remain within 1", this unit can immediately shoot at the unit that fell back as if it were the shooting phase, subtracting 1 from all hit rolls for that attack.

Emperor’s Children Legion Creed - Flawless Perfection: Units with this creed active always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Iron Warriors Legion Creed - Iron Within, Iron Without: When a model with this creed active would lose a wound or flee, roll one D6; on a 6 that wound is not lost or that model does not flee.

Night Lords Legion Creed - Sending a Message: Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all models with this creed active if an enemy unit was destroyed this turn or if an enemy unit failed a morale test this game. Enemy units suffer a -1 penalty to their Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn when they take damage from a ranged weapon used by unit with this creed active.

Word Bearers Legion Creed - Vulgar Truths: When a unit with this creed active is destroyed you gain reinforcement points equal the points cost of the destroyed unit. Note that access to this creed is lost as soon as any Daemons are summoned.

Renegades and Heretics Army Benefit - In Service of Higher Powers: A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal. In addition, they gain the Fanatic ability.

Inheritance of Slaanesh - Pheromonal Warpvents: Enemy units must re-roll successful hit rolls when firing Overwatch.
Spoiler:

Chaos Daemons Army Benefit - Corrupting Touch: At the end of your Movement phase you Corrupt any Objectives you control, you will continue to control any corrupted Objectives until an enemy unit moves within 3" of the Corrupted Objective.

Thousand Sons and Death Guard Army Benefit - Path of Chaos: Roll on the Chaos Boon table in the Stratagems section of the relevant Codex whenever a unit with this ability destroys an enemy unit. If the unit contains a Champion then that model benefits from the Stratagem, if the unit contains more than one model and does not contain a Champion it does not benefit from this ability.

Legion creeds are like legion traits, except they are only active while within 6" of a character and only if your army contains no models from other factions or sub-factions

Alpha Legion Legion Creed - Confuse and Destroy: When a unit with this creed active destroys a unit within 3" of an objective or destroys a CHARACTER you gain 1CP.

Black Legion Legion Creed - Vengeance is best Served Cold: Units with this creed active can charge in a turn in which they Fell Back. When an enemy unit falls back from within 1" of a unit with this creed active and no other enemy units remain within 1", this unit can immediately shoot at the unit that fell back as if it were the shooting phase, subtracting 1 from all hit rolls for that attack.

Emperor’s Children Legion Creed - Flawless Perfection: Units with this creed active always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Iron Warriors Legion Creed - Iron Within, Iron Without: When a model with this creed active would lose a wound or flee, roll one D6; on a 6 that wound is not lost or that model does not flee.

Night Lords Legion Creed - Sending a Message: Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all models with this creed active if an enemy unit was destroyed this turn or if an enemy unit failed a morale test this game. Enemy units suffer a -1 penalty to their Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn when they take damage from a ranged weapon used by unit with this creed active.

Word Bearers Legion Creed - Vulgar Truths: When a unit with this creed active is destroyed you gain reinforcement points equal the points cost of the destroyed unit. Note that access to this creed is lost as soon as any Daemons are summoned.

Renegades and Heretics Army Benefit - In Service of Higher Powers: A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal. In addition, they gain the Fanatic ability.

Inheritance of Unbound Renegades (Chaos with no units that have Allegiances, Marks or Devotions) - Hatred Unbound: Each time you roll an unmodified hit roll of 6 for an attack with a ranged weapon made by a model in this unit, that hit roll succeeds regardless of any modifiers. In addition, immediately make an additional hit roll against the same target using the same weapon. These additional hit rolls cannot themselves generate any further hit rolls.
Spoiler:

Chaos Knights Army Benefit - Rage of the Machines: Each time you roll a hit roll of 6+ for a model with this ability in the Fight phase, it can immediately make an extra attack against the same unit using the same weapon. These extra attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks.

Thousand Sons and Death Guard Army Benefit - Path of Chaos: Roll on the Chaos Boon table in the Stratagems section of the relevant Codex whenever a unit with this ability destroys an enemy unit. If the unit contains a Champion then that model benefits from the Stratagem, if the unit contains more than one model and does not contain a Champion it does not benefit from this ability.

Legion creeds are like legion traits, except they are only active while within 6" of a character and only if your army contains no models from other factions or sub-factions

Alpha Legion Legion Creed - Confuse and Destroy: When a unit with this creed active destroys a unit within 3" of an objective or destroys a CHARACTER you gain 1CP.

Black Legion Legion Creed - Vengeance is best Served Cold: Units with this creed active can charge in a turn in which they Fell Back. When an enemy unit falls back from within 1" of a unit with this creed active and no other enemy units remain within 1", this unit can immediately shoot at the unit that fell back as if it were the shooting phase, subtracting 1 from all hit rolls for that attack.

Emperor’s Children Legion Creed - Flawless Perfection: Units with this creed active always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Iron Warriors Legion Creed - Iron Within, Iron Without: When a model with this creed active would lose a wound or flee, roll one D6; on a 6 that wound is not lost or that model does not flee.

Night Lords Legion Creed - Sending a Message: Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all models with this creed active if an enemy unit was destroyed this turn or if an enemy unit failed a morale test this game. Enemy units suffer a -1 penalty to their Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn when they take damage from a ranged weapon used by unit with this creed active.

Word Bearers Legion Creed - Vulgar Truths: When a unit with this creed active is destroyed you gain reinforcement points equal the points cost of the destroyed unit. Note that access to this creed is lost as soon as any Daemons are summoned.

Heretic Titan Legions Army Benefit - Thundering Behemoths: This model cannot be reduced below 1 wound in the first battle round and cannot be removed from the table in any way on the first battle round.

Renegades and Heretics Army Benefit - In Service of Higher Powers: A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal. In addition, they gain the Fanatic ability.

Titan Legions Army Benefit - Unstoppable Behemoths: This model cannot be reduced below 1 wound in the first battle round and cannot be removed from the table in any way on the first battle round.

Inheritance of Chaos (Chaos) - None.
Spoiler:

Chaos Daemons Army Benefit - Corrupting Touch: At the end of your Movement phase you Corrupt any Objectives you control, you will continue to control any corrupted Objectives until an enemy unit moves within 3" of the Corrupted Objective.

Chaos Knights Army Benefit - Rage of the Machines: Each time you roll a hit roll of 6+ for a model with this ability in the Fight phase, it can immediately make an extra attack against the same unit using the same weapon. These extra attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks.

Thousand Sons and Death Guard Army Benefit - Path of Chaos: Roll on the Chaos Boon table in the Stratagems section of the relevant Codex whenever a unit with this ability destroys an enemy unit. If the unit contains a Champion then that model benefits from the Stratagem, if the unit contains more than one model and does not contain a Champion it does not benefit from this ability.

Legion creeds are like legion traits, except they are only active while within 6" of a character and only if your army contains no models from other factions or sub-factions

Alpha Legion Legion Creed - Confuse and Destroy: When a unit with this creed active destroys a unit within 3" of an objective or destroys a CHARACTER you gain 1CP.

Black Legion Legion Creed - Vengeance is best Served Cold: Units with this creed active can charge in a turn in which they Fell Back. When an enemy unit falls back from within 1" of a unit with this creed active and no other enemy units remain within 1", this unit can immediately shoot at the unit that fell back as if it were the shooting phase, subtracting 1 from all hit rolls for that attack.

Emperor’s Children Legion Creed - Flawless Perfection: Units with this creed active always fight first in the Fight phase even if they didn’t charge. If the enemy has units that have charged, or that have a similar ability, then alternate choosing units to fight with, starting with the player whose turn is taking place.

Iron Warriors Legion Creed - Iron Within, Iron Without: When a model with this creed active would lose a wound or flee, roll one D6; on a 6 that wound is not lost or that model does not flee.

Night Lords Legion Creed - Sending a Message: Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all models with this creed active if an enemy unit was destroyed this turn or if an enemy unit failed a morale test this game. Enemy units suffer a -1 penalty to their Leadership characteristic until the end of the turn when they take damage from a ranged weapon used by unit with this creed active.

Word Bearers Legion Creed - Vulgar Truths: When a unit with this creed active is destroyed you gain reinforcement points equal the points cost of the destroyed unit. Note that access to this creed is lost as soon as any Daemons are summoned.

Heretic Titan Legions Army Benefit - Thundering Behemoths: This model cannot be reduced below 1 wound in the first battle round and cannot be removed from the table in any way on the first battle round.

Renegades and Heretics Army Benefit - In Service of Higher Powers: A unit with this ability that is within range of an objective marker (as specified in the mission) controls the objective marker even if there are more enemy models within range of it. If an enemy unit within range of the same objective marker has a similar ability, then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of it as normal. In addition, they gain the Fanatic ability.

Titan Legions Army Benefit - Unstoppable Behemoths: This model cannot be reduced below 1 wound in the first battle round and cannot be removed from the table in any way on the first battle round.

Inheritance of the Patriarch (Genestealer Cults) - Preparations Complete: Before the battle begins you may move each Blip up to 6" within your deployment zone, the Blip is not revealed if you choose to do so.
Spoiler:

Cult of the Four-armed Emperor Detachment Bonus - Subterranean Ambushers: Until the end of the first battle round, add 1 to Advance and charge rolls made for units with this Cult Creed. Starting from the second battle round, if a unit with this Cult Creed is set up on the battlefield, then until the end of that turn, add 1 to Advance and charge rolls made for that unit.
Cult of the Four-armed Emperor Army Bonus - WIP

The Bladed Cog Detachment Bonus - Cyborgised Hybrids: All models with this Cult Creed have a 6+ invulnerable save. Models with this Cult Creed that already have an invulnerable save instead improve their invulnerable save by 1 (to a maximum of 3+). In addition, INFANTRY models with this Cult Creed do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for moving and shooting Heavy weapons.
The Bladed Cog Army Bonus - WIP

The Hivecult Detachment Bonus - Disciplined Militants: If a unit with this Cult Creed fails a Morale test, halve the number of models that flee (rounding up). In addition, units with this Cult Creed can still shoot in a turn in which they Fall Back, but if they do so you must subtract 1 from their hit rolls in the Shooting phase of that turn.
The Hivecult Army Bonus - WIP

The Pauper Princes Detachment Bonus - Devoted Zealots: You can re-roll hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by a unit with this Cult Creed in a turn in which it made a charge move, was charged or performed a Heroic Intervention.
The Pauper Princes Army Bonus - WIP

The Rusted Claw Detachment Bonus - Nomadic Survivalists: When making saving throws (excluding invulnerable saving throws) for a model with this Cult Creed, add 1 to the result if the weapon being used to make the attack has an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0 or -1. In addition, BIKER models with this Cult Creed do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for moving and shooting Heavy weapons or for Advancing and shooting Assault weapons.
The Rusted Claw Army Bonus - WIP

The Twisted Helix Detachment Bonus - Experimental Subjects: Add 1 to the Strength characteristic of models with this Cult Creed. In addition, add 2 to Advance rolls for a unit with this Cult Creed.
The Twisted Helix Army Bonus - WIP

Inheritance of Hunger (Tyranids) - Infest and Subjugate: At the start of each turn, place a Tyrannify Counter on a piece of terrain. Tyranid units gaining the benefit of cover that are in cover with a Tyrannify Counter add an additional +1 to their saving throws. Enemy units cannot gain cover if they are in cover with two or more Tyrannify Counters.
Spoiler:

Behemoth Detachment Bonus - Hyper-aggression: You can re-roll failed charge rolls for units with this adaptation.
Behemoth Army Bonus - WIP

Gorgon Detachment Bonus - Adaptive Toxins: You can re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for units with this adaptation.
Gorgon Army Bonus - WIP

Hydra Detachment Bonus - Swarming Instincts: You can re-roll hit rolls in the Fight phase for units with this adaptation that target units containing fewer models than their own.
Hydra Army Bonus - WIP

Jormungandr Detachment Bonus - Tunnel Networks: A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can FLY) always has the benefit of cover for the purposes of shooting attacks. If the unit Advances or declares a charge, however, it loses the benefit of this adaptation until the start of your next Movement phase.
Jormungandr Army Bonus - WIP

Kraken Detachment Bonus - Questing Tendrils: When a unit with this adaptation Advances, roll three dice instead of one and pick the highest to add to the Move characteristic of all models in the unit for that Movement phase. In addition, such units can Fall Back and charge in the same turn.
Kraken Army Bonus - WIP

Kronos Detachment Bonus - Bio-barrage: You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for units with this adaptation in your Shooting phase if they did not move in the preceding Movement phase.
Kronos Army Bonus - WIP

Leviathan Detachment Bonus - Synaptic Imperative: Roll a D6 each time a unit with this adaptation loses a wound whilst it is within 6" of a friendly SYNAPSE unit from the same hive fleet. On a 6, the damage is ignored and the unit does not lose a wound. Ignore this adaptation on a unit that is currently affected by the Catalyst psychic power.
Leviathan Army Bonus - WIP

Inheritance of Ynnead (Ynnari) - Soul Blaze: When a model with this ability is destroyed roll a number of D6 equal to its wounds characteristic before removing the model, inflict a single mortal wound on the nearest enemy unit within 18" of the model if you roll one or more 6s.

Inheritance of the Black Library (Harlequins) - Webway Ghosts: Subtract 1 from hit rolls in the Fight phase against units with this ability.
Spoiler:

Dreaming Shadow Detachment Bonus - Sombre Sentinels: When a unit with this form fails a Morale test, only one model from this unit must flee. In addition, each time a model with this form is slain or flees, roll a D6 before removing that model: on a 4+, that model can either shoot with one of its ranged weapons as if it were the Shooting phase, or make a single attack as if it were the Fight phase.
Dreaming Shadow Army Bonus - WIP

Frozen Stars Detachment Bonus - The Art of Death: Units with this form can move an additional D6" when they Fall Back. In addition, units with this form can consolidate up to 6".
Frozen Stars Army Bonus - WIP

Midnight Sorrow Detachment Bonus - Units with this form can move an additional D6" when they Fall Back. In addition, units with this form can consolidate up to 6".
Midnight Sorrow Army Bonus - WIP

Silent Shroud Detachment Bonus - Dance of Nightmares Made Flesh: Subtract 1 from the Leadership characteristic of enemy units while they are within 6" of any units from your army with this form. In addition, whenever your opponent takes a Morale test for a unit that is within 6" of any units from your army with this form, they must roll two dice and discard the lowest result.
Silent Shroud Army Bonus - WIP

Soaring Spite Detachment Bonus - Serpent’s Brood: Models with this form that can FLY, or that are embarked upon a TRANSPORT that can FLY, treat all Pistol weapons they are equipped with as Assault 1 weapons during a turn in which they (or the transport they are embarked upon) Advanced. In addition, these models do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for shooting Assault weapons during a turn in which they Advanced.
Soaring Spite Army Bonus - WIP

Veiled Path Detachment Bonus - Riddle-smiths: At the start of each Fight phase roll two dice and discard the highest result. Until the end of the phase, each time your opponent targets a unit with this form and makes a hit roll that, before modifiers, exactly matches your dice result, that hit roll fails.
Veiled Path Army Bonus - WIP

Inheritance of the Fall (CRAFTWORLD) - Lethal Elegance: Re-roll failed wound rolls in the Fight phase for units with this ability in a turn in which they charged or were charged.
Spoiler:

Alaitoc Detachment Bonus - Fieldcraft: Your opponent must subtract 1 from any hit rolls for attacks that target a unit with this attribute at a range of more than 12".
Alaitoc Army Bonus - Winding Paths: Units with this ability can fall back and shoot, if they do so they suffer a -1 penalty to their hit rolls unless they are able to fall back and shoot normally.

Biel-Tan Detachment Bonus - Swordwind: Add 1 to the Leadership characteristic of ASPECT WARRIORS with this attribute. In addition, you can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for shuriken weapons used by units with this attribute. A shuriken weapon is any weapon profile whose name includes the word ‘shuriken’ (e.g. shuriken pistol, Avenger shuriken catapult etc.) Kurnous’ Bow, the Blazing Star of Vaul and Scorpion’s claw (shooting) are also shuriken weapons.
Biel-Tan Army Bonus - Swift Strike: Add 1 to hit rolls against enemy units that have suffered one or more unsaved wounds this turn.

Iyanden Detachment Bonus - Stoic Endurance: A unit with this attribute can never lose more than one model as a result of any single failed Morale test. In addition, if a unit with a damage chart has this attribute, double the number of wounds it actually has remaining whenever you are consulting the chart to determine its characteristics.
Iyanden Army Bonus - Unyielding Ancients: Subtract 1 from the damage characteristic of all weapons targeting a WRAITH CONSTRUCT unit.

Saim-Hann Detachment Bonus - Wild Host: You can re-roll failed charge rolls for units with this attribute. In addition, BIKER units with this attribute do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for moving and firing Heavy weapons.
Saim-Hann Army Bonus - Reckless Charge: Add 1 to the damage characteristic of melee weapons when used by models with this ability in a turn in which they charged or performed a heroic intervention.

Ulthwé Detachment Bonus - Foresight of the Damned: Roll a D6 each time a model with this attribute loses a wound; on a 6 that wound is ignored. If a model has a similar ability (e.g. the Hemlock Wraithfighter’s Spirit Stones ability, or the Farseer’s Ghosthelm ability) you can choose which ability to use when a model loses a wound, but you cannot use both.
Ulthwé Army Bonus - Intimacy with Death: Units with this ability automatically pass morale tests and add 1 to rolls for abilities like Spirit Stones, Ghosthelm or psychic powers like Fortune.

Inheritance of Dark City (DRUKHARI KABAL) - Trophies of the Raid: Roll a D6 each time an enemy INFANTRY unit or a CHARACTER is destroyed by a unit with this ability, on a roll of 5+ you advance the Power From Pain turn number by 1.
Spoiler:

Kabal of the Black Heart Detachment Bonus - Thirst for Power: Units with this obsession that have the Power From Pain ability treat the current battle round as being 1 higher than it actually is when determining what bonuses they gain. Units with this obsession that do not have the Power From Pain ability instead gain the Inured to Suffering bonus.
Kabal of the Black Heart Army Bonus - WIP

Kabal of the Flayed Skull Detachment Bonus - Slay from the Skies: Add 3" to the Move characteristic of all models with this obsession that can FLY (if such a model has a minimum and maximum Move characteristic, only add 3" to their maximum one). In addition, enemy units do not receive the benefit to their saving throws for being in cover against attacks made by models with this obsession that can FLY, or by models with this obsession that are embarked upon a TRANSPORT with this obsession that can FLY. Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for such models when attacking with Rapid Fire weapons.
Kabal of the Flayed Skull Army Bonus - WIP

Kabal of the Obsidian Rose Detachment Bonus - Flawless Workmanship: The Range characteristic of all Assault, Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons used by units with this obsession is increased by 6" (this does not apply to Eyebursts (see Medusae) or Artefacts of Cruelty).
Kabal of the Obsidian Rose Army Bonus - WIP

Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue Detachment Bonus - The Serpent’s Kiss: Re-roll wound rolls of 1 made for melee weapons and poisoned weapons used by models with this obsession. This does not apply to Artefacts of Cruelty. For the purposes of this obsession, a poisoned weapon is any weapon with the Poisoned Weapon ability.
Kabal of the Poisoned Tongue Army Bonus - WIP

Inheritance of Fleshcraft (DRUKHARI COVEN) - Spontaneous Inspiration: Add 1 to the Power From Pain current turn number for every 10 rolls of 6+ for the Innured to Suffering ability.
Spoiler:

Coven of Twelve Detachment Bonus - Butchers of Flesh: Improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of all melee weapons used by a model with this obsession by 1. For example, an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0 becomes -1, an Armour Penetration characteristic of -1 becomes -2, and so on. This does not apply to any Artefacts of Cruelty.
Coven of Twelve Army Bonus - WIP

The Dark Creed Detachment Bonus - Distillers of Fear: Models in enemy units must subtract 1 from their Leadership characteristic for each unit with this obsession that is within 6" of theirs (to a maximum of -3).
The Dark Creed Army Bonus - WIP

The Prophets of Flesh Detachment Bonus - Connoisseurs of Pain: If a model has this obsession, the invulnerable save conferred by its Insensible to Pain ability is increased to 4+.
The Prophets of Flesh Army Bonus - WIP

Inheritance of the Arena (DRUKHARI WYCH CULT) - WIP:
Spoiler:

Cult of Strife Detachment Bonus - The Spectacle of Murder: Increase the Attacks characteristic of models with this obsession by 1 during any turn in which they charged, were charged or made a Heroic Intervention.
Cult of Strife Army Bonus - WIP

Cult of the Cursed Blade Detachment Bonus - Only The Strong Will Thrive: Increase the Strength characteristic of models with this obsession by 1. In addition, when a unit with this obsession fails a Morale test, only one model from that unit must flee.
Cult of the Cursed Blade Army Bonus - WIP

Cult of the Red Grief Detachment Bonus - The Speed of the Kill: Units with this obsession can charge in the same turn in which they Advanced. In addition, you can re-roll failed charge rolls for units with this obsession.
Cult of the Red Grief Army Bonus - WIP

Inheritance of the Dynasties (Necrons) - Phase Out: When models flee from a Necron unit with this ability you may select slain models to flee from that Necron unit.
Spoiler:

Mephrit Detachment Bonus - Solar Fury: Each time a model with this code shoots an enemy unit that is within half range of its weapon’s maximum range, the Armour Penetration characteristic of that weapon’s attack is improved by 1 (i.e. an Armour Penetration characteristic of ‘0’ becomes ‘-1’, an Armour Penetration characteristic of ‘-1’ becomes ‘-2’, etc.).
Mephrit Army Bonus - Ancient Artifice: Increase the damage characteristic of all weapons carried by models with this ability by 1 unless their damage characteristic is 1 (D3 damage would become D3+1 damage for example).

Nephrekh Detachment Bonus - Translocation Beams: If a unit with this code Advances, add 6" to its Move characteristic for that Movement phase instead of rolling a dice (if the unit is being affected by the My Will Be Done or Wave of Command ability, add 7" to its Move characteristic instead). In addition, if a unit with this code Advances, its models can move across models and terrain as if they were not there.
Nephrekh Army Bonus - Vector Computation Protocols: AIRCRAFT with this ability can turn up to 90" after moving if they have this ability. In addition, when a unit with this ability advances it is treated as not having moved for the purpose of which weapons it can fire and whether it suffers penalties for shooting after moving or advancing. If a Doomsday Ark advances it will still use the Low Power profile of the Doomsday Cannon.

Nihilakh Detachment Bonus - Aggressively Territorial: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for units with this code whenever they shoot, including when firing Overwatch, as long as they did not move in the preceding Movement phase and they have not disembarked from a TRANSPORT during this turn.
Nihilakh Army Bonus - Another Piece for the Collection: All units with this ability gain the benefit of the Their Number is Legion, their Name is Death ability. Troops units with this ability add 6" to the range of all ranged weapons they are armed with.

Novokh Detachment Bonus - Awakened by Murder: You can re-roll failed hit rolls in the Fight phase for units with this code if they charged, were charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention this turn.
Novokh Army Bonus - Ritual Elimination: Re-roll failed wound rolls of 1 for Shooting attacks made by a unit with this ability while within 12" of the target.

Sautekh Detachment Bonus - Relentless Advance: If a unit with this code Advances, it treats all ranged weapons it is equipped with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Rapid Fire 1 weapon is treated as an Assault 1 weapon, and a Heavy D6 weapon is treated as an Assault D6 weapon etc.). In addition, unless it has Advanced this turn, a unit with this code does not suffer the penalty to hit rolls for moving and firing a Heavy weapon.
Sautekh Army Bonus - Ruthless Culling: Units with this ability can Advance and Charge in the same turn.

Inheritance of the Brain Boyz (Orks) - Get Off Lads: After a Transport has moved models with this ability may disembark if the Transport did not Advance. Units that do so cannot be chosen to charge with that turn.
Spoiler:

Bad Moons Detachment Bonus - Armed to da Teef: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 for attacks made by models with this kultur in the Shooting phase.
Bad Moons Army Bonus - WIP

Blood Axes Detachment Bonus - Taktiks: A unit with this kultur gains the benefit of cover, even while they are not entirely on or in a terrain feature, if the enemy model making the attack is at least 18" away. In addition, units with this kultur can shoot or charge (but not both) even if they Fell Back in the same turn – if such a unit is embarked, it can only do so if the TRANSPORT that Fell Back also has this kultur.
Blood Axes Army Bonus - WIP

Deathskulls - Lucky Blue Gitz: Models with this kultur have a 6+ invulnerable save. In addition, you can re-roll a single hit roll, a single wound roll and a single damage roll for each unit with this kultur each time it shoots or fights. In addition, INFANTRY units with this kultur gain the Dis is Ours! Zog Off! ability, even if they do not have the Troops battlefield role.
Deathskulls Army Bonus - WIP

Evil Sunz - Red Ones Go Fasta: Add 1 to the Move characteristic of models with this kultur (adding 2 instead if that model is a SPEED FREEK), and add 1 to Advance and charge rolls made for them. In addition, models with this kultur do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.
Evil Sunz Army Bonus - WIP

Freebooterz - Competitive Streak: Add 1 to hit rolls for attacks made by models with this kultur if any other friendly unit with this kultur within 24" has destroyed an enemy unit this phase.
Freebooterz Army Bonus - WIP

Goffs - No Mukkin’ About: Each time you roll an unmodified hit roll of 6 for an attack with a melee weapon made by a model with this kultur, immediately make an additional hit roll against the same target using the same weapon. These additional hit rolls cannot themselves generate any further hit rolls.
Goffs Army Bonus - WIP

Snakebites - Da Old Ways: Roll a dice each time a model with this kultur loses a wound. On a 6 the wound is not lost. If a model has a similar ability (e.g. the Supa-Cybork Shiny Gubbinz or Ramshackle ability) you can choose which ability to use when a model loses a wound, but you cannot use both.
Snakebites Army Bonus - WIP

Inheritance of the Greater Good (T’au Empire) - Auxiliary Assistance: Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the Shooting phase for units with this ability within 3" of any VESPID units. Re-roll hit rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for units with this ability within 3" of any KROOT units. Whenever a model in a unit with this ability loses a wound from a Psychic power, roll a D6; on a 5+, that model does not lose that wound.
Spoiler:

Bork’an Sept Detachment Bonus - Superior Craftsmanship: Models with this tenet may add 6" to the maximum Range of any Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons they are armed with.
Bork’an Sept Army Bonus - WIP

Dal’yth Sept Detachment Bonus - Adaptive Camouflage: A unit with the tenet receives the benefit of cover, even while in the open. A unit with this tenet that moves for any reason loses the benefit of this tenet until the start of its next Movement phase.
Dal’yth Sept Army Bonus - WIP

Farsight Enclaves Detachment Bonus - Devastating Counter-strike: Re-roll wound rolls of 1 for models with this tenet for shooting attacks against enemy units that are within 6" of the firing model.
Farsight Enclaves Army Bonus - WIP

Sa’cea Sept Detachment Bonus - Calm Discipline: Add 1 to the Leadership characteristic of models with this tenet. In addition, in the Shooting phase you can re-roll a single failed hit roll when a unit with this tenet shoots.
Sa’cea Sept Army Bonus - WIP

T’au Sept Detachment Bonus - Coordinated Fire Arcs: When a unit with this tenet uses their For the Greater Good ability, or when they fire Overwatch whilst they are within 6" of another friendly T’AU SEPT unit, a 5 or 6 is required for a successful hit roll, irrespective of the firing model’s Ballistic Skill or any modifiers.
T’au Sept Army Bonus - WIP

Vior’la Sept Detachment Bonus - Strike Fast: If a unit with this tenet Advances, it treats all Rapid Fire weapons it is armed with as Assault weapons until the end of the turn (e.g. a Rapid Fire 1 weapon is treated as an Assault 1 weapon). In addition, models with this tenet do not suffer the penalty to their hit rolls for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.
Vior’la Sept Army Bonus - WIP

This message was edited 38 times. Last update was at 2019/10/21 12:03:31


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





Chaos Space Marines - None.


you're going to have to justify this.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Some of the balance on those suggestions are horribly out or it's not clear what you intending as 1 additional ld on units with ld 9/10 vrs 6CP for free is kinda bonkers.
   
Made in us
Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade






Not sure what the upcoming codex will be like for Sisters. At this point you couldn't get me to bother putting units on foot just to get a free faith point. No thanks.

A ton of armies and a terrain habit...


 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






BrianDavion wrote:
Chaos Space Marines - None.


you're going to have to justify this.

What's GW's justification? CSM are a point extra and lack Combat Doctrines, I figure GW in their infinite wisdom know something the rest of us don't since they printed CSM 2.0 just recently and didn't even bother giving their vehicles Tactics. /s It's just a joke because CSM get the short end of the stick all the time, if you have an idea for what they could get then I'd like to hear it. Same with all the other factions I haven't done. Also, alternative options for the ones I made are welcome as well.

Ice_can wrote:
Some of the balance on those suggestions are horribly out or it's not clear what you intending as 1 additional ld on units with ld 9/10 vrs 6CP for free is kinda bonkers.

It's not meant to be a 1-1 buff on all factions. I initially just wanted the 1 ld to be for Custodes, but I couldn't think of anything the other Imperial Agents so they just kind of got shoved in there. I think the Agents have a lot more options in terms of units compared to DA. I don't know if the DA buff is too much, but they are one of the worst factions in the game in terms of tournament stats and Doctrines is quite valuable especially when you take into account that first founding chapters get an extra buff while DA would get the 1-6 CP and a Relic if they went pure DW/RW/Green Wing. I went ahead and nerfed it a little bit to make it more difficult to obtain.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Not sure what the upcoming codex will be like for Sisters. At this point you couldn't get me to bother putting units on foot just to get a free faith point. No thanks.

You'd still get faith points for all your Rhinos, Immolators and Exorcists. MSU foot sisters would be an option, but I don't really know what you'd need 25 faith points for, if you wanted to go that route I think you deserve infinite faith points.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/09/08 13:38:36


 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 vict0988 wrote:
...Adeptus Custodes, Adepta Sororitas, Astra Cartographica, Deathwatch, Elucidian Starstriders, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum and Sisters of Silence - Imperial Agents: Add 1 Ld to units with this ability...


I have no words to express how unbelievably, completely, staggeringly useless this is.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I like the idea of giving everyone a fluffy bonus rule for not souping, but I'm not fond of most of the specific suggestions you've posted.

 vict0988 wrote:

Adeptus Custodes, Adepta Sororitas, Astra Cartographica, Deathwatch, Elucidian Starstriders, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum and Sisters of Silence - Imperial Agents: Add 1 Ld to units with this ability.

I feel that most of these are really meant to be splashed in as allies and thus don't necessarily need a monofaction bonus. Sororitas benefit from the Ministrorum rules, so they're covered. GK will probably be getting some sort of attention along with DA, SW, DW, and BA, but they could also use a codex overhaul that would probably impact what their Doctrines ought to look like. Monocustodes maybe just need bonus CP.


Adeptus Ministorum - Supreme Piety: Gain 1 Faith Point at the beginning of the game for each unit with this ability on the battlefield and not inside a Transport.

This feels weird. Bonus Faith Points, but not if you're in a transport? I'm not sure what the fluff justification for sisters being less faithful if they don't wait to get mortared on turn 1 before hopping in a transport is. Also, this means that units that don't normally contribute faith points suddenly do (ecclesiarchal battle conclave units).

If you wanted something sorta kinda similar to Combat Doctrines, you could do:
Battle Hymns:
If your army consists entirely of units with the Adeptus Ministrorum keyword, you may benefit from one of the following rules at the start of each game round.
* Hymn of Piety: Gain a faith point.
* Hymn of Service: Add 1 to faith tests (or whatever they're called) for the rest of the round.
* Hymn of Victory: Grant obsec to all models in your army for the rest of the round.


Adeptus Mechanicus and Questor Mechanicus - Grand Convocation: Gain 1 CP if your army includes a SKITARII unit, 1 CP if your army includes a CULT MECHANICUS unit and 1 CP if your army includes a QUESTOR MECHANICUS unit.

I dislike that this one kind of discourages a bunch of army builds by encouraging you to take specific units. This rule basically makes it so that any all-mechanicus army is cheating itself out of a CP if it doesn't include at least one of each of the above CP.

Personally, I'd kind of like to see a mechanic reminiscent of the old skitarii buffs and evocative of the current kastellan robot protocols. This is probably a terrible specific suggestion, but maybe something like:

Battle Protocols:
If your army consists entirely of units with the Adeptus Mechanicus keyword, you may benefit from one of the following rules each game round. Select one of the following protocols at the start of the first game round. You may change which of the following benefits you receive at the start of a game round by rolling 2d6. If the result is lower than the highest Leadership value in your army, select a different benefit.
* Algorithmic Firing Solution: Select a point on the battlefield at the start of each of your shooting phase. Ranged attacks made against units within 6" of that point add +1 to their to-hit rolls for the rest of the phase.
* Melee Optimization Subroutines: All models in your army suffer a -1 to ranged to-hit rolls but add +1 to melee to-hit rolls.
* Holdout Maintenance: Models with this rule add +2 to their armor saves while in cover rather than +1 against attacks made from more than 12" away.


Blood Angels - Black Rage Unleashed: When a unit with this ability fails a Morale test it gains the Black Rage ability.

I like this one. To clarify, do you still suffer losses from the morale test? The only thing I'm iffy on about this is that it creates yet another reason to NOT play leadership debuffing "freakshow" lists.


Chaos Daemons - Warp Storm: Gain D6 CP at the start of the game, if you roll a 1 you lose all your CP, this dice roll cannot be re-rolled.

Can't really see the game ever being improved by one player losing all their CP before the game starts. It just makes the game arbitrarily more one-sided. I'm also not sure that just starting the game off with 2-6 extra CP just because is all that interesting. Especially given that daemon armies have cheap enough troops to generate a decent amount of CP. Not sure what I'd do for daemons, but probably not this.

Maybe let them choose between a streamlined version of the 7th edition warp storm table (something easier/quicker to resolve) and series of god-specific mechanics? So at the start of the game, you can either choose to have the warp storm table kick in at the start of each game round OR you can gain Khorne Daemonkin style blood tithe points when your Khorne units kill/die OR you can do an Epidemeus-esque Nurgle mechanic, etc.


Chaos Knights - Rage of the Machines: Each time you roll a hit roll of 6+ for a model with this ability in the Fight phase, it can immediately make an extra attack against the same unit using the same weapon. These extra attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks.

Seems like this disproportionately benefits melee knights (who can get an absurd number of attacks) over other builds. If the goal is to reward a player for playing a single faction, just granting more CP to exclusively Chaos Knight armies seems like a reasonable way to go.


Chaos Space Marines - None.

Lol? I get that you're annoyed that loyalists got new shiny rules a couple of months after CSM 2.0, but that shouldn't prevent CSM from getting something cool. Just giving them Combat Doctrines would work but seems unfluffy. Maybe something to let you play up common CSM themes? Cheaper/easier access to the mutation strat. Bonuses to daemon summoning. Maybe something god-specific?


Dark Angels - The First Angels: Gain 3 CP if you have a Detachment containing only DEATHWING units with this ability, and 2 CP if you have a Detachment containing only RAVENWING units with this ability and 1 CP if you have a Detachment containing only units with this ability and no units that are DEATHWING or RAVENWING. Note that you will not get a free relic if you include more than one of the above in your army.

Same issue here as with the mechanicus. You're basically missing out if you don't field deathwing, ravenwing, and greenwing. Compare this to the SM Doctrines that let you field any (astartes) units you want without missing out. By contrast, this punishes you for not fielding certain units.


Harlequins - Webway Ghosts: Subtract 1 from hit rolls in the Fight phase against units with this ability.

Fluffy and useful, but we already have access to a lot of melee to-hit penalties and invul boosts. I'd rather see either...
A.) Something reminiscent of oldschool Veil of Tears that made us untargetable at a range. Maybe give us infiltrate to represent the clowns going unnoticed until they've closed the gap? Or...
B.) Give us saedath. Basically combat doctrines that rotate through a series of benefits corresponding to the mythic story being performed. Choose the saedath at the start of deployment.


Necrons - Phase Out: When models flee from a unit with this ability you may select slain models to flee from that unit.

To clarify, this just makes it so that the necron player decides which of his opponent's models flea in the morale phase? You don't really flee "from" anything in a mechanical sense in the morale phase, and you don't typically lose models for falling back in the movement phase.

That said, not sure how this represents Phase Out. I could see this representing a Night Lords style rule where they pick off key models while their foe is in disarray. I could see this representing disciplined sniper squads picking out key enemies when they shoot. I don't see how this corresponds to a rule that used to make the necron army run away if they lost too many NECRON models.

   
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Wyldhunt wrote:
I like the idea of giving everyone a fluffy bonus rule for not souping, but I'm not fond of most of the specific suggestions you've posted.

I totally get that, thanks for helping out and providing ideas.

 vict0988 wrote:

Adeptus Custodes, Adepta Sororitas, Astra Cartographica, Deathwatch, Elucidian Starstriders, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Officio Assasinorum and Sisters of Silence - Imperial Agents: Add 1 Ld to units with this ability.

I feel that most of these are really meant to be splashed in as allies and thus don't necessarily need a monofaction bonus. Sororitas benefit from the Ministrorum rules, so they're covered. GK will probably be getting some sort of attention along with DA, SW, DW, and BA, but they could also use a codex overhaul that would probably impact what their Doctrines ought to look like. Monocustodes maybe just need bonus CP.

So this bonus would just be the "codex" bonus, you'd also get an additional bonus for playing only Deathwatch or only Adeptus Custodes. I feel like it makes sense for Deathwatch or GK to gain a benefit for not allying with anything but Inquisition since they are the military arm of one of the Ordos. The SoB are a bit complicated, but from what I gather they are the military arm of the eclesiarchy and they have some kind of deal with the Ordo Hereticus so they ally with them a lot as well. I wanted to represent both versions here.

Adeptus Ministorum - Supreme Piety: Gain 1 Faith Point at the beginning of the game for each unit with this ability on the battlefield and not inside a Transport.

This feels weird. Bonus Faith Points, but not if you're in a transport? I'm not sure what the fluff justification for sisters being less faithful if they don't wait to get mortared on turn 1 before hopping in a transport is. Also, this means that units that don't normally contribute faith points suddenly do (ecclesiarchal battle conclave units).

If you wanted something sorta kinda similar to Combat Doctrines, you could do:
Battle Hymns:
If your army consists entirely of units with the Adeptus Ministrorum keyword, you may benefit from one of the following rules at the start of each game round.
* Hymn of Piety: Gain a faith point.
* Hymn of Service: Add 1 to faith tests (or whatever they're called) for the rest of the round.
* Hymn of Victory: Grant obsec to all models in your army for the rest of the round.

I was thinking the exact mechanics didn't matter too much, I think you'd be hard pressed to make an ecclesiarchal army that didn't have a lot of SoB. It absolutely requires a high level of faith to go into battle without an armoured transport, you already have Hymns with the priests and I don't really think that all the Ecclesiarchal troops should go singing into battle.

Adeptus Mechanicus and Questor Mechanicus - Grand Convocation: Gain 1 CP if your army includes a SKITARII unit, 1 CP if your army includes a CULT MECHANICUS unit and 1 CP if your army includes a QUESTOR MECHANICUS unit.

I dislike that this one kind of discourages a bunch of army builds by encouraging you to take specific units. This rule basically makes it so that any all-mechanicus army is cheating itself out of a CP if it doesn't include at least one of each of the above CP.

Personally, I'd kind of like to see a mechanic reminiscent of the old skitarii buffs and evocative of the current kastellan robot protocols. This is probably a terrible specific suggestion, but maybe something like:

Battle Protocols:
If your army consists entirely of units with the Adeptus Mechanicus keyword, you may benefit from one of the following rules each game round. Select one of the following protocols at the start of the first game round. You may change which of the following benefits you receive at the start of a game round by rolling 2d6. If the result is lower than the highest Leadership value in your army, select a different benefit.
* Algorithmic Firing Solution: Select a point on the battlefield at the start of each of your shooting phase. Ranged attacks made against units within 6" of that point add +1 to their to-hit rolls for the rest of the phase.
* Melee Optimization Subroutines: All models in your army suffer a -1 to ranged to-hit rolls but add +1 to melee to-hit rolls.
* Holdout Maintenance: Models with this rule add +2 to their armor saves while in cover rather than +1 against attacks made from more than 12" away.

7th ed AdMech got bonuses for featuring units from at least two codices I think, besides you're getting a free relic or some other bonus if you select only one subfaction. These factions are already pretty strong, there isn't room for free wargear or canticles for knights as a benfit for not souping harder, this is already soup. Just slightly less soupy soup.


Blood Angels - Black Rage Unleashed: When a unit with this ability fails a Morale test it gains the Black Rage ability.

I like this one. To clarify, do you still suffer losses from the morale test? The only thing I'm iffy on about this is that it creates yet another reason to NOT play leadership debuffing "freakshow" lists.

The intention was for it to kick in after models have fled, I'm not exactly sure how to rework it. Again, one of the things were I wanted to watch out to not make something OP. I figure if you lose 5 Primaris Marines to shooting and then another 1 Marine to Morale you'll only have 4 left so it won't be too OP. This is a rule I've wanted BA to have for a couple of editions, probably why it's one of the less gak ones.


Chaos Daemons - Warp Storm: Gain D6 CP at the start of the game, if you roll a 1 you lose all your CP, this dice roll cannot be re-rolled.

Can't really see the game ever being improved by one player losing all their CP before the game starts. It just makes the game arbitrarily more one-sided. I'm also not sure that just starting the game off with 2-6 extra CP just because is all that interesting. Especially given that daemon armies have cheap enough troops to generate a decent amount of CP. Not sure what I'd do for daemons, but probably not this.

Maybe let them choose between a streamlined version of the 7th edition warp storm table (something easier/quicker to resolve) and series of god-specific mechanics? So at the start of the game, you can either choose to have the warp storm table kick in at the start of each game round OR you can gain Khorne Daemonkin style blood tithe points when your Khorne units kill/die OR you can do an Epidemeus-esque Nurgle mechanic, etc.

I want some board-affecting rules for these less than just making the Daemons themselves stronger, I was thinking Nurgle could give all enemies -1 M. I'm not sure how to do Warp Storm without making it a chore, making it a once per game thing ensures that it's not something you have to bother with every turn, on the other hand, that's an important dice roll. How much room mono-Daemons have for buffs is hard to say, they are having a lot of success as parts of Chaos soup, but pretty much no success as a mono faction from what I remember, that might just be due to all the strong Daemon players souping at least a little bit for that extra 2-10% extra win rate.


Chaos Space Marines - None.

Lol? I get that you're annoyed that loyalists got new shiny rules a couple of months after CSM 2.0, but that shouldn't prevent CSM from getting something cool. Just giving them Combat Doctrines would work but seems unfluffy. Maybe something to let you play up common CSM themes? Cheaper/easier access to the mutation strat. Bonuses to daemon summoning. Maybe something god-specific?

I don't think Combat Doctrines was a good idea, I'd rather punish soup than buff mono-codex armies. We'll see if they become obnoxiously prevalent in competitive, I still haven't played against the new codex. Mostly I'm disappointed with GW not fixing the CSM codex when they updated it, IE: nerf AL, give vehicle Traits and balance pts.


Necrons - Phase Out: When models flee from a unit with this ability you may select slain models to flee from that unit.

To clarify, this just makes it so that the necron player decides which of his opponent's models flea in the morale phase? You don't really flee "from" anything in a mechanical sense in the morale phase, and you don't typically lose models for falling back in the movement phase.

That said, not sure how this represents Phase Out. I could see this representing a Night Lords style rule where they pick off key models while their foe is in disarray. I could see this representing disciplined sniper squads picking out key enemies when they shoot. I don't see how this corresponds to a rule that used to make the necron army run away if they lost too many NECRON models.

This has nothing to do with enemy units. Let's say I have 20 Necron Warriors, 4 are slain I pass morale. Now I have 4 slain models and 0 fled models. At the start of my next turn I reanimate 2 of those 4 slain models so I'm back to 18. Now you slay 12 Necron Warriors I fail my leadership test by 6 so 6 models flee, instead of removing the remaining 6 models on the battlefield, 6 of the 14 slain Necrons flee so I now have 8 slain Necrons and 6 fled Necrons. Now I reanimate 4 of those 8 slain Necrons because the fled Necrons cannot reanimate. The purpose of this rule is to make Necrons less susceptible to a big blowout turn where you not only lose models to morale, but also miss the chance to reanimate any models in the unit. Now instead you'll lose the ability to ever reanimate some models, but the unit as a whole won't flee and you'll still get to reanimate some models. This represents Necrons having inbuilt teleporters that bring them back to their tomb world should they need more extensive repairs than their in-built self-repair mechanisms can handle on the battlefield.
   
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So this bonus would just be the "codex" bonus, you'd also get an additional bonus for playing only Deathwatch or only Adeptus Custodes. I feel like it makes sense for Deathwatch or GK to gain a benefit for not allying with anything but Inquisition since they are the military arm of one of the Ordos.

Ah. +1 Ld is pretty darn minor for most marine units. Like, minor enough that it might not be worth giving them the bonus at all purely so they have one fewer modifiers to their datasheets to track. If the plan is to give more substantial mono-faction benefits to DW, GK, and AC, I'd have to see those benefits to comment on them.

I feel like the links between the inquisition and GK/DW/SoB should probably be represented by just including an Inquisitor datasheet in each of the 'dexes.


I was thinking the exact mechanics didn't matter too much, I think you'd be hard pressed to make an ecclesiarchal army that didn't have a lot of SoB. It absolutely requires a high level of faith to go into battle without an armoured transport, you already have Hymns with the priests and I don't really think that all the Ecclesiarchal troops should go singing into battle.

Non-sororitas ministrorum units are basically like non-regiment units in an IG army. Theoretically you can make an army of all abhumans or all battle conclaves, but that's probably not the presupposition. You can more or less treat Ministrorum as "sister" units even if they're not ORDER units. Especially since, iirc, ONLY sororitas units can actually use Faith Points.

Forcing models to start the battle outside of their transports to receive a mechanical benefit is just kind of gamey and weird. It's strange that deepstrikers like seraphim are actively punished for deepstriking. It's strange that you're encouraged to have your mechanized cavalry hop out of their vehicles for a couple of seconds at the start of each fight before immediately hopping right back into the transports. The rule as you've proposed it encourages very specific builds, discourages the use of built-in abilities (like deepstrike), and encourages weird and arguably unfluffy behavior.

If the goal is to reward Ministrorum armies with more faith points for playing mono-faction, then just do that. One of my hymns does that, and the others provide some additional options for the sake of variety (so that not-souping isn't a simple question of whether or not you need the faith points). I'm not married to my hymn mechanics or to calling them hymns. Sisters totally do seem to do a lot of mid-combat singing, but you can call them "Prayers" or "Blessings" or whatever.



7th ed AdMech got bonuses for featuring units from at least two codices I think, besides you're getting a free relic or some other bonus if you select only one subfaction. These factions are already pretty strong, there isn't room for free wargear or canticles for knights as a benfit for not souping harder, this is already soup. Just slightly less soupy soup.

Fair point about mechanicus already being fairly powerful. In theory, the reward for NOT souping should be roughly equivalent to the advantage of souping. Although cult mechanicus and skitaari really should have been a single book in 7th edition; they're more like an improperly split faction than actual distinct factions.

I don't recall 7th ed admech directly rewarding you for taking units from multiple books. The non-skitarri benefits got stronger if you took a bunch of non-skitarii mechanicus units (so actively discouraged spending points on units from more than one book). There were powerful formations like the War Convocation that required units from multiple books, but that's just how formations worked. Actually, that's a great thing to touch on. One of the things people disliked about formations was that it felt like they built your army for you by forcing you to field certain units. Functionally punishing me for not including a knight in my mechanicus or my all-skitaari army is kind of a variation on that same issue.

But as for specific bonuses, I don't know. Something less powerful than what I proposed is perfectly fine. I'm just spitballing.




The intention was for it to kick in after models have fled, I'm not exactly sure how to rework it. Again, one of the things were I wanted to watch out to not make something OP. I figure if you lose 5 Primaris Marines to shooting and then another 1 Marine to Morale you'll only have 4 left so it won't be too OP. This is a rule I've wanted BA to have for a couple of editions, probably why it's one of the less gak ones.

I know one of our local BA players' main pet peeves is that death company can flee at all. It might not be OP to functionally make mono BA immune to morale. This would make it so that MSU squads (i.e. the way you want to field most marine units) still have a chance of benefitting from this rule. Seems fluffy. Killing marines with morale usually isn't a go-to strategy as-is. Probably fine.


I want some board-affecting rules for these less than just making the Daemons themselves stronger, I was thinking Nurgle could give all enemies -1 M. I'm not sure how to do Warp Storm without making it a chore, making it a once per game thing ensures that it's not something you have to bother with every turn, on the other hand, that's an important dice roll. How much room mono-Daemons have for buffs is hard to say, they are having a lot of success as parts of Chaos soup, but pretty much no success as a mono faction from what I remember, that might just be due to all the strong Daemon players souping at least a little bit for that extra 2-10% extra win rate.

Board-wide effects are fine as a high concept. Maybe bring back some version of corrupted objectives from 7th edition (basically, an objective remains controlled even after daemons leave it until an enemy stands on it). Maybe let nurgle summon some feculant gnarlmaws. Maybe let khorne gain bloodtithe points. Lots of options. THis could be a thread unto itself.


I don't think Combat Doctrines was a good idea, I'd rather punish soup than buff mono-codex armies. We'll see if they become obnoxiously prevalent in competitive, I still haven't played against the new codex. Mostly I'm disappointed with GW not fixing the CSM codex when they updated it, IE: nerf AL, give vehicle Traits and balance pts.

Agree to disagree. I like soup just fine. Some factions really depend on soup to see play at all. All the punishments for soup lists I've seen basically just punish soup lists until they're non-competitive or take away CP in ways that make many allied in factions non-viable. Rewarding players for sticking to a single army creates room for additional fluffy rules. Basically, rewarding monofaction lifts everyone up. Punishing soup just drags a lot of armies down.

But yeah. I get the CSM codex envy, but that's no reason to not give them doctrines if we're giving doctrines to everyone else.


This has nothing to do with enemy units. Let's say I have 20 Necron Warriors, 4 are slain I pass morale. Now I have 4 slain models and 0 fled models. At the start of my next turn I reanimate 2 of those 4 slain models so I'm back to 18. Now you slay 12 Necron Warriors I fail my leadership test by 6 so 6 models flee, instead of removing the remaining 6 models on the battlefield, 6 of the 14 slain Necrons flee so I now have 8 slain Necrons and 6 fled Necrons. Now I reanimate 4 of those 8 slain Necrons because the fled Necrons cannot reanimate. The purpose of this rule is to make Necrons less susceptible to a big blowout turn where you not only lose models to morale, but also miss the chance to reanimate any models in the unit. Now instead you'll lose the ability to ever reanimate some models, but the unit as a whole won't flee and you'll still get to reanimate some models. This represents Necrons having inbuilt teleporters that bring them back to their tomb world should they need more extensive repairs than their in-built self-repair mechanisms can handle on the battlefield.

Ooooh. Okay. The wording of "flees from this unit" threw me off. That suggestion seems useful, but I'd make the argument that overwhelming 'cron blobs is a desirable form of counterplay. Acknowledging that Reanimation Protocols has issues this edition, making warrior blobs semi-immune to leadership seems like it risks turning 'cron games into a monotonous slog. A more ideal solution is probably to fix RP and THEN figure out a Combat Doctrine for them.

Also, necrons can only ally with themselves. So if the idea is to give them a doctrine as a reward for sticking to a single dynasty, then their doctrine should maybe be based on the dynasty you stuck with. More space for fluffy rules and all that jazz.
   
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Chaos could have some interesting ones for being mono-god, mono-faction, and potentially both. Each god trait would need to be relatively tame since it can be double dipped by both daemons and CSM. An army with all 4 marks in each detachment could get something too. It would work something like this:

"Too angry to die": Khorne-only aligned armies remove casualties from the fight phase only after all attacks have been resolved in the fight phase.
"Warp-Hardened Veterans" CSM-only armies may use the Command Reroll Strategem twice per phase.

So a Pure Khorne CSM army would get both. I have no clue what the traits themselves would need to be for balance, but the concept should be the same. It would also make it so CSM + Matching Daemons/R&H get some perk besides color coordination.
   
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You'd still get faith points for all your Rhinos, Immolators and Exorcists. MSU foot sisters would be an option, but I don't really know what you'd need 25 faith points for, if you wanted to go that route I think you deserve infinite faith points.


Yeah, no thx. I think the point you are missing is that a Sisters army doesn't get much return from AoF, you also can only spend one a phase so you couldnt use them all anyways.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 11:40:45


A ton of armies and a terrain habit...


 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 dracpanzer wrote:

Yeah, no thx. I think the point you are missing is that a Sisters army doesn't get much return from AoF, you also can only spend one a phase so you couldnt use them all anyways.

Welcome to having to attempt to explain Orders to people who just think the mechanic is "OP".
   
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Hungry Ork Hunta Lying in Wait





 DominayTrix wrote:
Chaos could have some interesting ones for being mono-god, mono-faction, and potentially both. Each god trait would need to be relatively tame since it can be double dipped by both daemons and CSM. An army with all 4 marks in each detachment could get something too. It would work something like this:

"Too angry to die": Khorne-only aligned armies remove casualties from the fight phase only after all attacks have been resolved in the fight phase.
"Warp-Hardened Veterans" CSM-only armies may use the Command Reroll Strategem twice per phase.

So a Pure Khorne CSM army would get both. I have no clue what the traits themselves would need to be for balance, but the concept should be the same. It would also make it so CSM + Matching Daemons/R&H get some perk besides color coordination.


Oh god this please! Or maybe have it where you pick one of the options? But I'd love a reason to run my Khorne Daemonkin or Thousand sons + Tzeentch mono Daemons!
   
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 Kanluwen wrote:
 dracpanzer wrote:

Yeah, no thx. I think the point you are missing is that a Sisters army doesn't get much return from AoF, you also can only spend one a phase so you couldnt use them all anyways.

Welcome to having to attempt to explain Orders to people who just think the mechanic is "OP".

You're going to have to explain this one to me. How is a character doubling the firepower of units worth 2,67 times his cost fair? You are getting 80 pts worth of shooting for 30 pts. Alternatively, you can automatically warptime one of your units, no roll required, no chance of failure. How is this fair compared to what other factions get? My problems are only with M!M!M! and FRF!SRF! They have never been this good in previous editions, just suddenly they get "simplified" into being massively more powerful. The Company Commander could go up 50% in pts cost tomorrow and I believe he'd still be in some lists. There's also just the whole problem of it not making any sense that a Company Commander would have this much effect on how fast an Infantry Squad runs, they already have a Sergeant in their squad telling them to run as fast as possible to get to an objective.
   
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Stealthy Sanctus Slipping in His Blade






 Kanluwen wrote:
 dracpanzer wrote:

Yeah, no thx. I think the point you are missing is that a Sisters army doesn't get much return from AoF, you also can only spend one a phase so you couldnt use them all anyways.

Welcome to having to attempt to explain Orders to people who just think the mechanic is "OP".


AoF and the mechanics for them are in no way equal to AM Orders.

A ton of armies and a terrain habit...


 
   
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i like how no FW index list shows up, just as consitent as GW

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in dk
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Not Online!!! wrote:
i like how no FW index list shows up, just as consitent as GW

Eh, what? Renegades and Heretics get the same thing as Astra Militarum and I haven't made any suggestions for Craftworlds, Drukhari or Orks. I'd also like to see some suggestions for Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Salamanders.
   
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 vict0988 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
i like how no FW index list shows up, just as consitent as GW

Eh, what? Renegades and Heretics get the same thing as Astra Militarum and I haven't made any suggestions for Craftworlds, Drukhari or Orks. I'd also like to see some suggestions for Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Salamanders.


Because WE are astra militarum?

Also ObSec is worthless. For renegades atleast in mono fashion, because you are not going through my screen.

The issue is with the effectiveness of the units themselves.
Which are a grot but pay guard prices.
Infact even the nerfed to gak conscripts perform better then r&h units at the same price.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 17:29:34


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Not Online!!! wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
i like how no FW index list shows up, just as consitent as GW

Eh, what? Renegades and Heretics get the same thing as Astra Militarum and I haven't made any suggestions for Craftworlds, Drukhari or Orks. I'd also like to see some suggestions for Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Salamanders.


Because WE are astra militarum?

What does WE stand for?
Also ObSec is worthless. For renegades atleast in mono faction, because you are not going through my screen.

I don't think it's entirely worthless, what kind of a rule do you think would best represent them? It's not just about holding on to the ones in your deployment zone which you may very well hold on to with no problems, but what about the ones in enemy deployment zones, needing one model instead of 11 could be meaningful once in a while. RnH definitely need a lot of help to be viable as a mono-faction and I think there is a place for taking faction power into account when suggesting these rules, but you'd need something really big to make mono-faction RnH top tier if I am not mistaken.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 vict0988 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
i like how no FW index list shows up, just as consitent as GW

Eh, what? Renegades and Heretics get the same thing as Astra Militarum and I haven't made any suggestions for Craftworlds, Drukhari or Orks. I'd also like to see some suggestions for Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Salamanders.


Because WE are astra militarum?

What does WE stand for?
Also ObSec is worthless. For renegades atleast in mono faction, because you are not going through my screen.

I don't think it's entirely worthless, what kind of a rule do you think would best represent them? It's not just about holding on to the ones in your deployment zone which you may very well hold on to with no problems, but what about the ones in enemy deployment zones, needing one model instead of 11 could be meaningful once in a while. RnH definitely need a lot of help to be viable as a mono-faction and I think there is a place for taking faction power into account when suggesting these rules, but you'd need something really big to make mono-faction RnH top tier if I am not mistaken.


You don't need to go top Tier.

You could go for that :
Warlords army, an r&h army not accompanied by their daemon overlords or marine masters will learn to work on their own.

All r&h units gain the following:
fanatic, (same as allready in the index)

(mutants, Militia, MIlitia Heavy weapons teams, gain this)
Militia Training ( improves ws, bs and SV value by 1. To a max of bs /ws 3+ SV 4+.


Edit: to propperly explain.
Your general R&H body is ws/bs 5+ Sv6. for 4 pts, with a moreale averaging out at 5.5 but can be as low as 3 and max 9.
Veteran equivalents are 6 pts aswell. and don't profit really from the additional boos.

In essence the main issue is that the units are overpriced by 25%, for an army that is reliant on it's infantry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 18:19:50


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





These Combat Doctrines feel pretty bland. Also, I think you're missing that giving Combat Doctrine-type stuff to Heretic Astartes would help eliminate soup rather than support it for the same reason that every pure Marine player is now gushing over their new codex! Combat Doctrine-type stuff, and the sub-faction "buff one of the doctrines" type stuff is really a great way for them to reward playing fluffy, and honestly is what GW said originally they'd do.

Here are some of my takes:

Orks/Necrons/T'au: None. Why? You're already forced into being a mono-faction by simply being one of these. HOWEVER, I would want to see further buffs based on being mono-klan/dynasty/sept. That's for a different post though I'm afraid.

Tyranids: At the start of each turn, place a Tyrannify Counter on a piece of terrain. Tyranid units gaining the benefit of cover that are in cover with a Tyrannify Counter add an additional +1 to their saving throws. Enemy units cannot gain cover if they are in cover with a Tyrannify Counter. (Further stratagem benefits would either be based on how many terrain pieces are tyrannified, give other benefits for being near tyrannified terrain, or add additional tyrannify counters)

Genestealer Cult: If you go first and your entire army is deployed using Cult Ambush, your may move your Blips up to 6", including out of your deployment zone, and may choose not to reveal the Blip when you do so. If you do so, you only reveal the Blips at the end of your opponent's Movement phase. When revealing Blips this way, with the exception of the first model placed, no other model in the unit may be deployed closer to your opponent's units than any other previously deployment model from the unit. If you go second, and your entire army is deployed using Cult Ambush, you may choose not to reveal your Blips until the start of your Movement phase. Blips not revealed this way cannot be shot or assaulted.

Heretic Astartes: Turn 1; units with Mark of Chaos Undivided may reroll one roll of any type during each phase this turn. Turn 2; roll a d6 whenever a model with the Mark of Slaanesh dies this turn, on a 5+ they get to shoot as if it were the shooting phase or make a close combat attack as if it were the fight phase, Turn 3; units with the Mark of Khorne double their attacks characteristic for the duration of this turn, Turn 4; return each damaged model with the Mark of Nurgle to its original number of starting wounds, then return d6 previously slain models to each unit with fewer than its starting number of models, Turn 5; you may choose the dice values for psychic powers manifested by models with the Mark of Tzeentch this turn. Turn 6; the bonuses for each turn's Mark apply this turn as well as the Mark of Chaos Ascendant takes hold.

Chaos Daemons: (same thing as Heretic Astartes, but it only works if you're mono-Daemon 'dex).


I don't really play any other force heavily, so I don't think I'm in a position to comment on them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/09/09 18:13:56


 Galef wrote:
If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 vict0988 wrote:

You're going to have to explain this one to me. How is a character doubling the firepower of units worth 2,67 times his cost fair? You are getting 80 pts worth of shooting for 30 pts.

An Infantry Squad or Veteran Squad(the two that can guaranteed get an Order from a <Regiment> Officer) are starting off a Lasgun down thanks to the Sergeant's mere presence(which is mandatory).

Just so we're clear. You're never really "doubling" the firepower of the unit. And the effectiveness goes down the more upgrades a squad gets, which is just stupid in and of itself.
Because FRFSRF only applies to Lasguns and Hotshot Lasguns.

Alternatively, you can automatically warptime one of your units, no roll required, no chance of failure.

Well, unless it's being issued to Conscripts, who have the Raw Recruits rule literally requiring you to roll for an automatic buff.

Or if you FRFSRF'd the unit in question.
How is this fair compared to what other factions get?

How many other factions have huge chunks of their army that can't benefit from a core HQ ability?
If it doesn't have <Regiment>, it can't receive Orders from a <Regiment> Officer.
If it isn't Infantry, it can't receive Orders.

Scions are the exception to the rule, requiring a Tempestor Prime to be able to get issued Orders.
My problems are only with M!M!M! and FRF!SRF! They have never been this good in previous editions, just suddenly they get "simplified" into being massively more powerful.

Not really. All that happened is you can't laugh off Lasguns anymore.
M^3 does need to be adjusted, but FRFSRF is fine as is. There is only one "purely Lasgun" unit, and that's the Conscript Squad--which has a 50/50 shot of failing the Order.

And frankly? The range on Orders is pathetic now. Even with Vox-Casters which, mind you, need to be paid for and require both a Vox-Caster near the issuing Officer and in the unit receiving the Order.

And that further restricts the type of unit receiving said Orders, as there are four(technically five I guess?) units in the Guard which can take Voxes:
-Command Squads, both normal and Tempestus
-Infantry Squads
-Veteran Squads
-Scion Squads
The Company Commander could go up 50% in pts cost tomorrow and I believe he'd still be in some lists.

Nostradamus here! What else are people going to run?
-Commissars can't issue Orders.
-Primaris Psykers can't issue Orders.
-Tempestor Primes can only issue Orders to Scions.
-Tank Commanders can only issue Orders to Leman Russ

So please, Nostradamus, enlighten us lowly Guard players as to what else might be ran as an HQ if the Company Commander went up in points.

There's also just the whole problem of it not making any sense that a Company Commander would have this much effect on how fast an Infantry Squad runs

Does it really make sense for you to be standing next to a shouty guy and suddenly getting to correct your aim? Because auras do just as much for other factions, just with a shorter range and the ability to stack.
they already have a Sergeant in their squad telling them to run as fast as possible to get to an objective.

Sergeants don't issue Orders. Sergeants are, effectively, a wasted body in the Guard Infantry/Veteran/Scion Squads. They're there to remove a Lasgun/Hellgun and to force you to still pay for the body.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/09 18:28:36


 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 Kanluwen wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:

You're going to have to explain this one to me. How is a character doubling the firepower of units worth 2,67 times his cost fair? You are getting 80 pts worth of shooting for 30 pts.

An Infantry Squad or Veteran Squad(the two that can guaranteed get an Order from a <Regiment> Officer) are starting off a Lasgun down thanks to the Sergeant's mere presence(which is mandatory).

Just so we're clear. You're never really "doubling" the firepower of the unit. And the effectiveness goes down the more upgrades a squad gets, which is just stupid in and of itself.

Because FRFSRF only applies to Lasguns and Hotshot Lasguns.

You are still doubling firepower, you're just only doubling it for 36 pts worth per unit, 71 pts in total, in other words, you're still getting at least 60 pts worth of extra shooting for 30 pts. You can give your Sergeants a boltgun for 1 pt if you're not playing Catachan.

Alternatively, you can automatically warptime one of your units, no roll required, no chance of failure.

Well, unless it's being issued to Conscripts, who have the Raw Recruits rule literally requiring you to roll for an automatic buff.

Or if you FRFSRF'd the unit in question.
How is this fair compared to what other factions get?

How many other factions have huge chunks of their army that can't benefit from a core HQ ability?
If it doesn't have <Regiment>, it can't receive Orders from a <Regiment> Officer.
If it isn't Infantry, it can't receive Orders.

Scions are the exception to the rule, requiring a Tempestor Prime to be able to get issued Orders.

Necrons, Orks, Tau and Drukhari. It doesn't really matter that much that you're limited in the units you can buff as long as the units you buff can be brought in numbers where the buff makes sense. We see that with all of the factions I mentioned and Astra Militarum also, it's just not an excuse for him to be this OP, I don't want to get rid of him, just balance him.
My problems are only with M!M!M! and FRF!SRF! They have never been this good in previous editions, just suddenly they get "simplified" into being massively more powerful.

Not really. All that happened is you can't laugh off Lasguns anymore.

False. Previously orders had a chance of failing, now they automatically take effect. Previously FRFSRF only added 1 to the number of shots, now it adds 2 if you're within 12". MMM added about 1,5" to your movement, now it adds 9,5".
M^3 does need to be adjusted, but FRFSRF is fine as is. There is only one "purely Lasgun" unit, and that's the Conscript Squad--which has a 50/50 shot of failing the Order.

9/10 guys in Infantry Squads still benefit from the order because lasguns are so good this edition that you'll rarely see special or heavy weapons unless the mission set punishes 10-man squads. Conscripts are in a weird place currently, I don't understand why anyone would use them, I've had them used once against me since they got the doubledunk nerf and they weren't very effective, I've heard they've seen a little bit of success in competitive, but I'm convinced the players could've done as well with Infantry Squads. I'd be perfectly happy with a Conscript buff by making orders work 5/6 times if Company Commanders took a nerf.

And frankly? The range on Orders is pathetic now. Even with Vox-Casters which, mind you, need to be paid for and require both a Vox-Caster near the issuing Officer and in the unit receiving the Order.

And that further restricts the type of unit receiving said Orders, as there are four(technically five I guess?) units in the Guard which can take Voxes:
-Command Squads, both normal and Tempestus
-Infantry Squads
-Veteran Squads
-Scion Squads[/spoiler]
That's why you take 2-3 Company Commanders to babysit different groups of squads instead of relying on a command squad in the back issuing orders with voxes. IMO voxes need a buff, I don't think infinite range would be ridiculous since you'd still be limited by having a vox in the target and having enough orders to hand out to the units you want to order around. Alternatively, you could reduce the cost to 3 and see what happens, I might be wrong but I don't think they ever get used in competitive.
The Company Commander could go up 50% in pts cost tomorrow and I believe he'd still be in some lists.

Nostradamus here! What else are people going to run?
-Commissars can't issue Orders.
-Primaris Psykers can't issue Orders.
-Tempestor Primes can only issue Orders to Scions.
-Tank Commanders can only issue Orders to Leman Russ

So please, Nostradamus, enlighten us lowly Guard players as to what else might be ran as an HQ if the Company Commander went up in points.

Beyond making me go and spend 20 minutes on wikipedia I don't know what the purpose of mentioning Nostradamus was? Is it that he only predicted things that were inevitable? I think Astra Militarum players have collectively decided to forget about Platoon Commanders, you know the ones that were mandatory in previous editions? You could also just not use the mechanic if it was really that bad, that's what Grey Knights do with Brother-Captains and what Space Wolves do with their Wolf Priests. They wouldn't be used at 1,5x price because you had to, but because you wanted to, because the value would still be there.

There's also just the whole problem of it not making any sense that a Company Commander would have this much effect on how fast an Infantry Squad runs

Does it really make sense for you to be standing next to a shouty guy and suddenly getting to correct your aim? Because auras do just as much for other factions, just with a shorter range and the ability to stack.

What auras? Guilliman? That's honestly the best comparison I have. No, I get 75 pts worth of shooting and +1 to advance and charge rolls for 80 pts. I don't get 70 pts of shooting for 30 pts and I also don't have the option of warptiming my guys, sure i get +1 to advance while also adding 1 to hit rolls, but that doesn't really compare to double shots or double move. You need to castle up 500-900 pts within an aura if you want to get the same level of value from a support character with any other faction.
they already have a Sergeant in their squad telling them to run as fast as possible to get to an objective.

Sergeants don't issue Orders. Sergeants are, effectively, a wasted body in the Guard Infantry/Veteran/Scion Squads. They're there to remove a Lasgun/Hellgun and to force you to still pay for the body.

You're awfully mad about the extra 2 melee attacks, 1 pistol shot and 1 Ld you get for no extra cost and you can just grab a boltgun if you want him to be more shooty. What I meant wasn't that Sergeants give orders as such, merely that they are leading their squad in the fluff sense and for AM that probably involves a whole lot of shouting. If you had 3 different characters all adding +1 to advance rolls you'd still only be at 3/9,5" of Movement you get from Warpt... MMM. I don't mind the abstraction too much, but this is sitting just on the line for me. We have an order that is unfluffy and OP and I don't think it's strange for me to want to nerf it. Aura abilities can be really insane when you stack buff on top of buff and end providing an extreme amount of value, making Aura abilities only affect units where every model is in range would fix some of the castle problems 8th has caused with some factions. I won't reply any further on orders in this thread, but feel free to try to convince me I'd like to change my mind.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 08:30:06


 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





i dunno:

9/10 guys in Infantry Squads still benefit from the order because lasguns are so good this edition that you'll rarely see special or heavy weapons unless the mission set punishes 10-man squads. Conscripts are in a weird place currently, I don't understand why anyone would use them, I've had them used once against me since they got the doubledunk nerf and they weren't very effective, I've heard they've seen a little bit of success in competitive, but I'm convinced the players could've done as well with Infantry Squads. I'd be perfectly happy with a Conscript buff by making orders work 5/6 times if Company Commanders took a nerf.


Lasguns even doubling their firerate means not really anything against T4 units.

It's light infantry that suffers and even there it is ridicoulusly low improvement.

Also the bolter is something nobody really choses for IG equivalents.
(because it is bad)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
You're awfully mad about the extra 2 melee attacks, 1 pistol shot and 1 Ld you get for no extra cost and you can just grab a boltgun if you want him to be more shooty. What I meant wasn't that Sergeants give orders as such, merely that they are leading their squad in the fluff sense and for AM that probably involves a whole lot of shouting. If you had 3 different characters all adding +1 to advance rolls you'd still only be at 3/9,5" of Movement you get from Warpt... MMM. I don't mind the abstraction too much, but this is sitting just on the line for me. We have an order that is unfluffy and OP and I don't think it's strange for me to want to nerf it. Aura abilities can be really insane when you stack buff on top of buff and end providing an extreme amount of value, making Aura abilities only affect units where every model is in range would fix some of the castle problems 8th has caused with some factions. I won't reply any further on orders in this thread, but feel free to try to convince me I'd like to change my mind.


Literally all Champions and Squad leaders of IoM and Chaos do the same.
Except most of these are not hamstrung into bs options.
Even Renegade and Heretics champions can still pick a Autogun/ lasgun / shotgun and be effective at what they are supposed to be.

Also if an IG squad is in melee it's allready a loss. Exception to the rule is Catachan, but even that squad generally won't survive due to the Armor save beeing in mass combat more relevant.
Meaning that any Melee unit or even marine Equivs walk over IG squads. (and yes i have done it enough with my CSM with boltguns)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/09/10 09:09:42


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

Why do most of the csm doctrine suggestions include chaos marks and other daemonic stuff? It's not fluffy for night lords alpha legion or iron warriors. How about a variation on the loyalist rule. +1 to wound with heavy, then assault and rapid fire, and then melee weapons changing on turns if you choose like the sm rule. Like votlw all the time. The more fluffy stuff can wait for legion specific rules. I would personally like to see a variation of the "a talent for murder " rule from 30k for night lords. And gw should just go ahead and make the legion traits we already have apply to vehicles.
   
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Gadzilla666 wrote:
Why do most of the csm doctrine suggestions include chaos marks and other daemonic stuff? It's not fluffy for night lords alpha legion or iron warriors. How about a variation on the loyalist rule. +1 to wound with heavy, then assault and rapid fire, and then melee weapons changing on turns if you choose like the sm rule. Like votlw all the time. The more fluffy stuff can wait for legion specific rules. I would personally like to see a variation of the "a talent for murder " rule from 30k for night lords. And gw should just go ahead and make the legion traits we already have apply to vehicles.

Why not just make rules for all the marks and add one for specifically not taking a mark? "Chaos Undevoted"- If a CSM army does not contain any units with marks of chaos then their detachments are worth more CP based on a table of values. The values would have to be playtested for balance, but the goal would be to make marks an alternative or trade-off. That way their ruthless application of tactics can be represented in more strategems which will vary between the unaligned armies.
   
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The dark hollows of Kentucky

 DominayTrix wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Why do most of the csm doctrine suggestions include chaos marks and other daemonic stuff? It's not fluffy for night lords alpha legion or iron warriors. How about a variation on the loyalist rule. +1 to wound with heavy, then assault and rapid fire, and then melee weapons changing on turns if you choose like the sm rule. Like votlw all the time. The more fluffy stuff can wait for legion specific rules. I would personally like to see a variation of the "a talent for murder " rule from 30k for night lords. And gw should just go ahead and make the legion traits we already have apply to vehicles.

Why not just make rules for all the marks and add one for specifically not taking a mark? "Chaos Undevoted"- If a CSM army does not contain any units with marks of chaos then their detachments are worth more CP based on a table of values. The values would have to be playtested for balance, but the goal would be to make marks an alternative or trade-off. That way their ruthless application of tactics can be represented in more strategems which will vary between the unaligned armies.

That could work but with people running double battalions and stuff like the red corsairs trait there's already starting to be some cp bloat. It would have to be balanced right. Although it might get people to play more actual marines if they don't need cheap troop choices just to get cp.
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Gadzilla666 wrote:
Why do most of the csm doctrine suggestions include chaos marks and other daemonic stuff? It's not fluffy for night lords alpha legion or iron warriors. How about a variation on the loyalist rule. +1 to wound with heavy, then assault and rapid fire, and then melee weapons changing on turns if you choose like the sm rule. Like votlw all the time. The more fluffy stuff can wait for legion specific rules. I would personally like to see a variation of the "a talent for murder " rule from 30k for night lords. And gw should just go ahead and make the legion traits we already have apply to vehicles.

The intention with my rules is that there are no individual warband/legion rules, you'd be mono Heretic Astartes and then possibly also one of the four infernal allegiances or no infernal allegiance. Both Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion can now dedicate themselves to Chaos which I don't think was possible in 3rd. There aren't really any "secular" renegades as far as GW rules are concerned AFAIK, but I did make a rule for if you don't want anything to do with any particular Chaos god and that was also intended for any faction that might not pray to the Chaos gods but simply revel in mayhem.

Combat Doctrines are the opposite of CSM, they don't have the same regimented doctrines that compliant SM chapters do. I think it's a shame that the boon table isn't used more often so that's why that's involved with the mono-Heretic Astartes but I can see how it would feel bad if you want to do a secular band of SM renegades and the chaos gods are giving you boons out of nowhere. If you just wanted to turn off the boon bonus using my system you could soup with a R&H Battalion and not take any marks for any of your units, that would give you Dakka Dakka Dakka and would be very fluffy for AL and IW.

If you want to flesh out your own system for mono-codex + mono-sub-faction instead of mono-codex + mono-infernal allegiance then feel free to do so, I'd love to see it. I think the +1 atk in the first round of combat is enough to encourage melee and Combat Doctrines is also pretty heavily weighted towards shooting, it's also meant to help out R&H. As far as fleshing out AL more I don't think they need more army-wide abilities, a couple more Unique Stratagems, Traits and Relics is all I think they need if anything.

I also think their Tactic needs to be nerfed but that's not super relevant here. Relevant to a possible AL nerf is the Raven Guard. I think they are going to be great against Knights with their +1 to hit and wound against Characters when the Tactical Doctrine is active. I'm not sure how well it compares to UM and WS, but according to Reece from FLG who has playtested the rules, the IH and IF are the best, with what I've seen from the IH that seems likely. Does anyone feel like any of the so-far released rules for SM Chapters don't fit? Had you wished for something else for any of these benefits?
   
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I really like chaos demons and genestealer cult ideas.

Many of the others seem a bit off.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 vict0988 wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Why do most of the csm doctrine suggestions include chaos marks and other daemonic stuff? It's not fluffy for night lords alpha legion or iron warriors. How about a variation on the loyalist rule. +1 to wound with heavy, then assault and rapid fire, and then melee weapons changing on turns if you choose like the sm rule. Like votlw all the time. The more fluffy stuff can wait for legion specific rules. I would personally like to see a variation of the "a talent for murder " rule from 30k for night lords. And gw should just go ahead and make the legion traits we already have apply to vehicles.

The intention with my rules is that there are no individual warband/legion rules, you'd be mono Heretic Astartes and then possibly also one of the four infernal allegiances or no infernal allegiance. Both Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion can now dedicate themselves to Chaos which I don't think was possible in 3rd. There aren't really any "secular" renegades as far as GW rules are concerned AFAIK, but I did make a rule for if you don't want anything to do with any particular Chaos god and that was also intended for any faction that might not pray to the Chaos gods but simply revel in mayhem.

Combat Doctrines are the opposite of CSM, they don't have the same regimented doctrines that compliant SM chapters do. I think it's a shame that the boon table isn't used more often so that's why that's involved with the mono-Heretic Astartes but I can see how it would feel bad if you want to do a secular band of SM renegades and the chaos gods are giving you boons out of nowhere. If you just wanted to turn off the boon bonus using my system you could soup with a R&H Battalion and not take any marks for any of your units, that would give you Dakka Dakka Dakka and would be very fluffy for AL and IW.

If you want to flesh out your own system for mono-codex + mono-sub-faction instead of mono-codex + mono-infernal allegiance then feel free to do so, I'd love to see it. I think the +1 atk in the first round of combat is enough to encourage melee and Combat Doctrines is also pretty heavily weighted towards shooting, it's also meant to help out R&H. As far as fleshing out AL more I don't think they need more army-wide abilities, a couple more Unique Stratagems, Traits and Relics is all I think they need if anything.

I also think their Tactic needs to be nerfed but that's not super relevant here. Relevant to a possible AL nerf is the Raven Guard. I think they are going to be great against Knights with their +1 to hit and wound against Characters when the Tactical Doctrine is active. I'm not sure how well it compares to UM and WS, but according to Reece from FLG who has playtested the rules, the IH and IF are the best, with what I've seen from the IH that seems likely. Does anyone feel like any of the so-far released rules for SM Chapters don't fit? Had you wished for something else for any of these benefits?

I believe the only way most factions are going to catch up with the sm is the sub faction route because sm are getting multiple new rules along with strategems and relics. Extra cp won't help if we don't get strategems and relics to spend them on and most csm legions only have a couple relics and some only one. So we either need supplements or new codexes. I don't know enough about how other armies work to be able to come up with rules for them. I think the talent for murder trait fits great for night lords. Also if gw want to push for mono armies then they need to address the fact that a lot of armies will have trouble dealing with knights by themselves in the current meta. That means dropping the points increase on the super heavys we got in ca.
   
 
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