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 =Angel= wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:


Not sure what the context of "no negativity" is suppose to mean.

The topic of the thread suggests that Primaris are being accepted by all. OP thinks that negativity (any criticism) is dying down and wants to know if YOU think that's the case, unless you disagree, in which case, don't bring your negativity into his thread.

I've never once said Primaris are accepted by all.

If your input is something along the lines of: "The lore is crap, the model are crap" then don't post. If you're bitter and toxic don't post here - That is what I'm saying

I think that people are oversaturated with the "Bigger Better Space Marine" models. That's probably what's the cause of so much negativity really. Games Workshop really, really need to diversify their release schedules a lot more, otherwise, the issue likely won't go away.

Darsath wrote:
I think that people are oversaturated with the "Bigger Better Space Marine" models. That's probably what's the cause of so much negativity really. Games Workshop really, really need to diversify their release schedules a lot more, otherwise, the issue likely won't go away.

Games Workshop release what people want to buy. Looking at their astonishing performance they seem to know what most people want.

 =Angel= wrote:
You have the perfect avatar for the level of unwarranted certainty/smugness of your posts. Congratulations I guess.

I am being accurate in my assessments, not negative. The rules are always model driven to an extent, but 'what's in the box IS the options' is the monkeys paw answer to 'I want all the options to be in the box'.

The 'Primaris can't get in a Landraider' is an entirely sales driven rule. It's not a model driven rule and its not a background driven rule. Its only function is to separate Primaris from your existing colection and drive sales of Primaris vehicles. When Grey Knights were conceptualised as a 'foot' army and not given rhinos as an option (even though Inq stormtroopers in the same codex could take them) they still didn't have a rule stopping them from getting into transport vehicles.

You can move on and take your attitude with you. I'm quite optimistic about the future of my army and hobby. I expect them to resolve the background issues with retcons, implement sensible rules/options as the models get updated and at some point Primaris will just be marines in MkX armour.

All we'll be left with from all the controversy is a few divisive sculpts.

Primaris being unable to take Land Raiders or Rhinos as transports is pretty much a sure-fire sign that GW doesn't actually want the Primaris line to 'integrate' with the old line, in contrast to the fluff.

New boxed sets contain only Primaris. New players are steered towards Primaris. GW stores predominantly stock Primaris. Primaris keep getting new and unique rules, and old characters are being converted over. Anyone getting into Space Marines now is probably going to be buying Primaris, not the old Marines.

When they inevitably retire the old Marines, it will be a nice and neat severance, since Primaris represent an entirely self-contained model line that doesn't require any legacy models to function. They get all their own infantry, dreadnoughts, characters, tanks, and wargear, and more to the point have Primaris counterparts for just about everything old Marines might provide an otherwise Primaris-only force.

It's a soft reboot, and that's entirely a marketing/sales decision, rather than one driven by fluff or gaming.

I don't know why some people see the current situation of a mixed Primaris/non-Primaris codex being anything other than a stop-gap before the old line is eventually retired. Nothing about how GW has designed and marketed Primaris implies that they want players buying non-Primaris models alongside their Primaris models. They've set it up so that you can still use your old collection while you (presumably) transition over to the Primaris range, but Primaris is what the Marine range will be going forward.

I don't think the concept of nicer marine models with some upscaled ability bothered most.

What bothered most people I think was the atrocious story mechanism used to introduce them, the way they don't fit with any existing units and longstanding staples like rhinos and drop pods, and the cringe inducing naming scheme that makes it impossible to keep units straight.

Beyond that I never saw any reason for people to dislike them, rather it was GW's absurdly hamfisted approach to their introduction.

 Ishagu wrote:

Darsath wrote:
I think that people are oversaturated with the "Bigger Better Space Marine" models. That's probably what's the cause of so much negativity really. Games Workshop really, really need to diversify their release schedules a lot more, otherwise, the issue likely won't go away.

Games Workshop release what people want to buy. Looking at their astonishing performance they seem to know what most people want.

Seems hilariously defensive, but my point was on the idea that Primaris weren't really being accepted. By your thread title, you already know about that issue.

 Ishagu wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:


Not sure what the context of "no negativity" is suppose to mean.

The topic of the thread suggests that Primaris are being accepted by all. OP thinks that negativity (any criticism) is dying down and wants to know if YOU think that's the case, unless you disagree, in which case, don't bring your negativity into his thread.

I've never once said Primaris are accepted by all.

If your input is something along the lines of: "The lore is crap, the model are crap" then don't post. If you're bitter and toxic don't post here - That is what I'm saying

Oh, good - so you'll be leaving the thread now, then?

It's kind of interesting to see the Primaris and the post-Cicatrix Malediction 41k universe as a kind of soft reboot vs the hard Age of Sigmar reboot involving the destruction of the Old World. Warhammer 40k actually made money, so they needed to sell more Space Marines to people that already had hundreds. I wish they'd just released Mk VI armour in Primaris-scale/quality, but I can see why they did an upgraded Mk IV and decided to make a clean break.

 Ishagu wrote:
Good riddance to anyone unhinged enough to burn their armies because GW introduced some new models.

Don't want such people in this community.

Really wasn't because of new models. It was because AoS is an entirely different game from WHFB that uses existing models. WHFB was more of a historicals flank and rank sort of game. AoS changed that. Don't know why the guy burned his army doe. Kings of War and 9th Age is around for fantasy flank and rank and you still have the models around for AoS.

The fluff / lore is still very much a work in progress. Having just read "Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work" I actually feel sorry for Decimus Felix (and the rest of the first Primaris batch).

 Vaktathi wrote:
I don't think the concept of nicer marine models with some upscaled ability bothered most.

What bothered most people I think was the atrocious story mechanism used to introduce them, the way they don't fit with any existing units and longstanding staples like rhinos and drop pods, and the cringe inducing naming scheme that makes it impossible to keep units straight.

Beyond that I never saw any reason for people to dislike them, rather it was GW's absurdly hamfisted approach to their introduction.

The hamfisted approach is needed if you want to sell the same army to people twice.
GW could have just updated the tacticals and devastators and veterans with the new armor, then introduced the new models, then re-made what was obsolete. Add re-designed terminators, whatever.
But that is $$$$ not $$$$$$ therefore here we go with some other preposterous fluff.


Removed - BrookM

The interesting thing is that GW finally remade the CSM, Havocs, and Chaos Terminators in Primaris-size/style and they look fantastic.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

The hamfisted approach is needed if you want to sell the same army to people twice.
GW could have just updated the tacticals and devastators and veterans with the new armor, then introduced the new models, then re-made what was obsolete. Add re-designed terminators, whatever.
But that is $$$$ not $$$$$$ therefore here we go with some other preposterous fluff.

It's adorable that you think any of that would have happened.

Christ's sake, we have people still playing unpainted/primer colored armies these days just for metachasing. People whine about buying more than one book, even if the others aren't necessary for the army you're playing.

And you think that them "just updated the tacticals and devastators and veterans with the new armor" would have resulted in any sales? When there would be no rules differences?

Going to be using my big red text here..

I did some pruning, have removed offending posts and warnings have been issued to those who could not keep things polite.

This is a final warning to all participants: RULE #1 is not optional, I kindly ask you all to keep things polite. So no more rude or condescending replies please. Any further breaches of the site rules will result in suspensions.

I don't think primaris are being "accepted" so much has those that dislike them quieting down some because criticizing is useless as GW continues to focus on them, even to the extent of primarizing existing characters.

I dislike them for their fluff, being betterer more superer ultra-heroic than "normal marines." I dislike them for scale creep. I dislike them for their even more obscene prices.

Some of the models look nice.

Personally, I quite enjoy the Primaris marines. I certainly would have preferred them being introduced in a way that integrates them more with older stuff, but since Old Marines really were showing their age (even newer kits being held back by having to remain in the older design space), it has been quite refreshing to have a new line of Marines.

Aside from the aforementioned "segregation", the only other thing that initially bother me about the Primaris was that Chaos Marines didn't have an equivalent. But since Shadowspear, I've become ok with this. The scale update to CSMs and all the added Daemonic stuff makes it "even" if not "equivalent"

I am enjoying my "Movie Marines" though. Using DW Fortis units' rules to represent how "regular" marines are portrayed in fluff.

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I think it's partly that people leave as well. I did and do think Primaris were awful but seeing as everyone I play with agrees and none of us play marines (anymore) so it's no longer something we're up to date on and it doesn't get discussed.

But good for people who like Primaris if they're getting better reception now.

An interesting thing I've noticed is that there are a lot more veterans who are playing 40k over here in the US, and I think that a lot of the redesign associated with Primaris weapons and vehicles has really appealed to that crowd. Yeah, bolters would be more fluffy, but I think having the more 'modern' looking weapons (as opposed to the more sci-fi style ones) on some units and vehicles has really helped push the appeal of Primaris models with folks over here.

Overall, the models themselves are what are appealing - while I wish for more of a mix, I played pure Primaris and pure Firstborn detachments since 8th came out, and they both presented their own interesting challenges. Some of those are being mitigated as more Primaris releases come out, and old marines are always going to suffer from the lack of a second wound when there are so many weapons that are good at killing power armor... but it makes for some interesting choices on the table during the weekends.

I personally think that the inclusion of new beefy Marines is a natural evolution of the geneseed tech. So, I'm game.

I'd like to see this somehow translate into chaos as well. Like, corrupted primaris Marines. Or just homies in the lab making new chaos Marines.

I dislike Primaris simply because I now have no idea what to do with my marines. I guess that will get resolved in a few years though. But it makes me not want to spend any money on marines at all atm.

I play Dark Angels. Are ravenwing now defunct? Will there be a primaris replacement? Will the line continue to be supported with rules? Will deathwing be replaced by gravis or something else? Will they even get unique units, or just generic models painted black or bone? Will I be able to use my current army in the future or are they getting totally mothballed?

redboi wrote:
I dislike Primaris simply because I now have no idea what to do with my marines. I guess that will get resolved in a few years though. But it makes me not want to spend any money on marines at all atm.

I play Dark Angels. Are ravenwing now defunct? Will there be a primaris replacement? Will the line continue to be supported with rules? Will deathwing be replaced by gravis or something else? Will they even get unique units, or just generic models painted black or bone? Will I be able to use my current army in the future or are they getting totally mothballed?

Any thoughts that old marines models are going to be squatted is just paranoid thinking - GW has shown no inclination towards removing old marine models from play, and while we may see some updates, the iconic units for the chapters have remained intact thus far. In fact, those have remained unique to the old marine models - Deathwing will remain Deathwing, Ravenwing will remain Ravenwing, and I expect any new Primaris units will not add in to those old unique formations and models.

The most recent stuff has driven me entirely out of the game. I couldn't stand the wtf look of the new marine models starting with the phobos line, which they botched hardcore.

redboi wrote:
I play Dark Angels. Are ravenwing now defunct? Will there be a primaris replacement? Will the line continue to be supported with rules? Will deathwing be replaced by gravis or something else? Will they even get unique units, or just generic models painted black or bone? Will I be able to use my current army in the future or are they getting totally mothballed?

Primaris Ravenwing, Primaris everything.

The only flaw in Primaris units for now is that they're mostly lacking in chapter specific flavor, and look too vanilla. New special characters show that flaw can be overcome. I see no reason not to release an upgrade kit for primaris bikers when they come, primaris black knights etc.

redboi wrote:
I dislike Primaris simply because I now have no idea what to do with my marines. I guess that will get resolved in a few years though. But it makes me not want to spend any money on marines at all atm.

I play Dark Angels. Are ravenwing now defunct? Will there be a primaris replacement? Will the line continue to be supported with rules? Will deathwing be replaced by gravis or something else? Will they even get unique units, or just generic models painted black or bone? Will I be able to use my current army in the future or are they getting totally mothballed?

Your army is basically unchanged. Ravenwing and Deathwing aren't really accepting of the Primaris.

Highly suggest you grab this month's White Dwarf for the Dark Angels stuff in it.

They will become suddenly more acceptant when primaris bikers roll out.

 Shadenuat wrote:
They will become suddenly more acceptant when primaris bikers roll out.

They better be jetbikes!

 RuneGrey wrote:

redboi wrote:
I dislike Primaris simply because I now have no idea what to do with my marines. I guess that will get resolved in a few years though. But it makes me not want to spend any money on marines at all atm.

I play Dark Angels. Are ravenwing now defunct? Will there be a primaris replacement? Will the line continue to be supported with rules? Will deathwing be replaced by gravis or something else? Will they even get unique units, or just generic models painted black or bone? Will I be able to use my current army in the future or are they getting totally mothballed?

Any thoughts that old marines models are going to be squatted is just paranoid thinking - GW has shown no inclination towards removing old marine models from play, and while we may see some updates, the iconic units for the chapters have remained intact thus far. In fact, those have remained unique to the old marine models - Deathwing will remain Deathwing, Ravenwing will remain Ravenwing, and I expect any new Primaris units will not add in to those old unique formations and models.

I would not call it paranoid to be honest. Yes GW has said that they will be supporting the old marines even thoug they released primaris, sure what were they supposed to say? "Look! We released some new shiny marines who are stronger, bigger and better than your old marines, and you have to buy those now if you want to play marines!" Of course they would not say that, they don't want to antagonize their old player base too much. But let's not kid ourselves, the main focus is on the primaris line and it will remain on the primaris model line and in a few years time, when primaris will have gotten their assault marine equivalent etc, the old marines will just fade out.

The primaris line was simply GWs attempt to bring the scaling of space marine models up to date and since GW focuses on the models first and on the lore second, they shoehorned in the primaris storyline and cawl. I am not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing, I like many of the new marine models (dont care for the supressors or the inceptors though), but how they were implemented into the lore could have been handled in a better way.

They could have either just brought the old marines up to scale, or released the primaris as a smaller elite force that is supposed to reinforce the chapters, that way it may not have felt like the primaris are a complete repleacement.

 Crimson wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
They will become suddenly more acceptant when primaris bikers roll out.

They better be jetbikes!

No, pls no.
No need for scatbikes 2.0

Still grumpy, still don't care for Primaris, you can pry my beloved mkIV beaky marines from my cold dead hands

And no Primaris Raven guard beakies don't count when you only get two heads per kit

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
They will become suddenly more acceptant when primaris bikers roll out.

They better be jetbikes!

No, pls no.
No need for scatbikes 2.0

Wholeheartedly agree, but for theme reasons, not game abuse. I started playing Eldar when their shtick was anti-grav tech supremacy. Flyers didn't exist in 40K and only Eldar had Jetbikes (excluding Sameul of the Ravenwing). It's bad enough that Imperial have 40K scale flyers now, with Hover to boot!, but giving Primaris Jetbikes would just be salt in the wound.

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