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But at the same time all Primaris marines in the vault were full fledged marines not scouts so they would have participated in some battle at some point

 fraser1191 wrote:
But at the same time all Primaris marines in the vault were full fledged marines not scouts so they would have participated in some battle at some point

no, they where aspirants when they where sent to the process.

BrianDavion wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
But at the same time all Primaris marines in the vault were full fledged marines not scouts so they would have participated in some battle at some point

no, they where aspirants when they where sent to the process.

So they got all of their implants in a tube/lab and only have precodex battle strategy? At this I'm going to have to take a break from painting to read everything and get stuff straight

Cawl's initial batch of the Primaris were trained to only perform one role, and that's it. The later ones are trained normally.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vankraken wrote:
I know a lot of these blurbs about the more recent stories are extremely condensed summaries but it all sounds like stuff written to backfill the hole they dug for themselves with the Gathering Storm + launch of 8th. Perhaps it's me being biased but it comes across as GW doing a form of damage control for the flimsy premise they made for themselves.

This is probably exactly what's happening. And it is welcome. Yeah, it would have been better had they not fethed up in the first place, but this is still a good direction.

 fraser1191 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
But at the same time all Primaris marines in the vault were full fledged marines not scouts so they would have participated in some battle at some point

no, they where aspirants when they where sent to the process.

So they got all of their implants in a tube/lab and only have precodex battle strategy? At this I'm going to have to take a break from painting to read everything and get stuff straight

Pretty much. Can't remember completely, but that was the Legion way - no Scouts, just wait for the Black Carapace to mature, get hypnotherapy and memnotraining, and you're a Legionnaire! The reason Scouts were introduced was to more rigorously examine the geneseed and monitor recruits to prevent the same en masse corruption as what happened pre-Codex.

The Primaris Marines were probably indoctrinated with early Codex strategy (Guilliman was writing his Codex Astartes before the Battle of Terra), so the Primaris aren't horrifically out of the loop, but will need "real" combat experience, ergo, they're not battle hardened Heresy era Marines. They're certainly not green or untrained by any stretch though, so saying that they're just lab-grown test tube babies isn't accurate either.

As with anyone who hasn't actually read up on Primaris lore, I would recommend it, if only to dispel some of the more egregious misconceptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
Cawl's initial batch of the Primaris were trained to only perform one role, and that's it. The later ones are trained normally.

Yeah, that's something I forgot to mention. The original stasis-stored Primaris were entirely specialist. You would be assigned the role of Intercessor, and that's what you'd stay as. Nowadays, the other two types of Primaris Marine are trained to cover the entire range of combat roles as needed (like Brother Pollandus, who goes through a very wide range of skills and roles).

I think I generally agree with most of the sentiments here. It was a shock to the system coming back to 40k and finding Primaris everywhere! In a previous life I was actually a Space Orks (as they were then called) player, so it wasn't as bad as it might have been for a Space Marines veteran.

I really dislike the repulsor vehicles. Grav tanks belong to Eldar and Tau, not to Space Marines. The Imperium has always fielded tracks and treads and wheels. It's almost like (in universe) the Imperium has seen the Tau and started an arms race in trying to outdo them in cool tech.

As with others, I think Intercessors look like proper Space marines - I actually quite like the look of the Reivers too, but not a fan of Inceptors or Aggressors - too curvy and bulbous. Some of the HQ models, in particular the Chaplain and the Lieutenant with the power sword, look pretty awesome imo. Still prefer the Sanguinary Priest to the Apothecary though.

When it came to choosing what to centre my fledgling force around, I went for a good old Tactical Squad. The only Primaris in my force currently is the free Intercessor model that came with my £5 Getting Started book/pack! (I am using it - a bit naughtily - as a Primaris Lieutenant).

Still not certain how much Primaris to include. Certainly won't be including their vehicles, dreadnoughts included (the Blood Angels Furioso is so much cooler anyway). At most I might end up putting in an Intercessor squad and an actual Lieutenant model (the heroic one with the power sword, not the one with the smoking grenade and tacti-cool pose).

If you didn't like the initial lore that was in codex for the Primaris Marines you really should read Dark Imperium 1 and 2.

Overall it was quite a nice book and it really shows the dislike of the new and old marines towards each other, with the many chapters REALLY not liking their new recruits and the greyshields mostly being incredibly pissed about their chapter selection when many were initially Ultramarines, Space Wolves, or Dark Angels who had a decent amount of battle experience during the Scouring. (theres a whole storyline devoted to a very unhappy primaris marine who basically hates his new chapter). Additionally it makes Guilliman a far more complex character who devoutly hates everything that is happening in the Imperium and has no power to fix it (he also really dislikes Cato Sicarius) Even Marneus Calgar is super depressed about losing control of Ultramar and playing second fiddle to Guilliman when he used to be the ultra badass (which probably explains why he went rubicon!). Reading those two books really helped me get my head around the new marines and realizing its not all roses (apparently some chapters had a box of gene seed delivered by custodes who said "this is how you make marines now, deal with it" and those chapters are pretty pissed as well)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
Awful background combined with rules driven models, model kit/sales driven rules and general incompatibility with Space Marines mean I won't be picking any up until they resolve at least the last 2.

You're wrong in your assessments, and you're being negative for the sake of it.

The lore is subjective, you probably know little of it. The model sales are not rules driven, they've been sub par for over two years.

Move on

It doesn't matter how good they are, just how Timmy they are.

Primaris are the ultimate Timmy infantry.

Going by the paradigm that's from.. That doesn't make any sense since Primaris tend to be competitive at this point. You could make a case that they are part of the spike and johnny paradigm as well. Timmy players tend to play big things and cool things, maybe weird variance things none of which Primaris are. This is the sort of category you'd see like the Three Land Raider player.

Primaris are literally 'bigger and cooler' Marines. It's not just big stompy monsters, but how 'cool' (or 'tacticool') they are, especially as they have W2 infantry. Spike will play whatever FOM there is, be it Primaris, Eldar Flying Circus or Giant Blobs of Dudes or wherever the pendulum wings, and will use it whether the big timmy stats or exploiting special rules: "as long as it cuts".

Johnny in these games can manifest in both gameplay and the hobby element. I would argue that Johnny in the WH side of it loves the fluff and imagery and makes highly thematic or personalised armies and generally shies away from big stats or big rules.

 Daba wrote:

Spoiler:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
Awful background combined with rules driven models, model kit/sales driven rules and general incompatibility with Space Marines mean I won't be picking any up until they resolve at least the last 2.

You're wrong in your assessments, and you're being negative for the sake of it.

The lore is subjective, you probably know little of it. The model sales are not rules driven, they've been sub par for over two years.

Move on

It doesn't matter how good they are, just how Timmy they are.

Primaris are the ultimate Timmy infantry.

Going by the paradigm that's from.. That doesn't make any sense since Primaris tend to be competitive at this point. You could make a case that they are part of the spike and johnny paradigm as well. Timmy players tend to play big things and cool things, maybe weird variance things none of which Primaris are. This is the sort of category you'd see like the Three Land Raider player.

Primaris are literally 'bigger and cooler' Marines. It's not just big stompy monsters, but how 'cool' (or 'tacticool') they are, especially as they have W2 infantry. Spike will play whatever FOM there is, be it Primaris, Eldar Flying Circus or Giant Blobs of Dudes or wherever the pendulum wings, and will use it whether the big timmy stats or exploiting special rules: "as long as it cuts".

Johnny in these games can manifest in both gameplay and the hobby element. I would argue that Johnny in the WH side of it loves the fluff and imagery and makes highly thematic or personalised armies and generally shies away from big stats or big rules.

Basically this. Using the triple land raider example given earlier. A Timmy might field a Land Raider full of TH/SS terminators because it's big, flashy, and has the potential to blow the ever loving feth out of some big nasty. A Johnny might field 3 Land Raiders and fill it with Blood Claws because it's some crazy strategy he came up with as it's a bit unique or thematic. A Spike would field 3 Land Raiders if they where OP (spike is also the type that would field a 7th ed Bark Bark Star despite it being a giant slog to play for all parties involved because it wins games). Of course nobody is purely one of these archetypes but it's reasonable to say that Primaris where aiming to be more appealing to a Timmy focused player than say a Johnny or Spike (especially with their initial rule sets).

Who the feth are Timmy and Johnny. (Spike I know, he's the blond vampire from Buffy. I didn't know he plays 40K though,)

 Crimson wrote:
Who the feth are Timmy and Johnny. (Spike I know, he's the blond vampire from Buffy. I didn't know he plays 40K though,)

It is in reference to an (in)famous article Wizards wrote for MTG cataloguing the three main types of players in gaming.

So baaasicly people are, yet again trying to compare a table top minitaure game to a fething CCG?

One factor in 40k I've found that isn't mentioned there is the "hero player" this player doesn't want to have buckets of minis he throws down and picks up as the game goes on, he puts time and effort into his painting and wants those minis to stick around for a bit. he tends to favor durable armies, that can take damage, and IMHO Primaris Marines are designed to appeal to them. other factions designed for those type of players are custodes, death guard and knights.

BrianDavion wrote:
So baaasicly people are, yet again trying to compare a table top minitaure game to a
CCG?

One factor in 40k I've found that isn't mentioned there is the "hero player" this player doesn't want to have buckets of minis he throws down and picks up as the game goes on, he puts time and effort into his painting and wants those minis to stick around for a bit. he tends to favor durable armies, that can take damage, and IMHO Primaris Marines are designed to appeal to them. other factions designed for those type of players are custodes, death guard and knights.

It was coined by the people working on MtG but it's a fairly universal concept in gaming. D&D has similar player archetypes (not the game classes but the way people play the game).

What you described is the Timmy who likes big stompy things that deal lots of damage and/or hard to kill. Kitted out units with all the bells and whistles.

 Vankraken wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
So baaasicly people are, yet again trying to compare a table top minitaure game to a
CCG?

One factor in 40k I've found that isn't mentioned there is the "hero player" this player doesn't want to have buckets of minis he throws down and picks up as the game goes on, he puts time and effort into his painting and wants those minis to stick around for a bit. he tends to favor durable armies, that can take damage, and IMHO Primaris Marines are designed to appeal to them. other factions designed for those type of players are custodes, death guard and knights.

It was coined by the people working on MtG but it's a fairly universal concept in gaming. D&D has similar player archetypes (not the game classes but the way people play the game).

What you described is the Timmy who likes big stompy things that deal lots of damage and/or hard to kill. Kitted out units with all the bells and whistles.

IOW he didn't read the article I clearly linked to...

BrianDavion wrote:
So baaasicly people are, yet again trying to compare a table top minitaure game to a fething CCG?

Well Mtg has a pretty tight knit ruleset so cut people some slack. Magic while having cards that break the game still adhere to most rules like timing and such, but then there are cards you can play to get the first around the timing restrictions. So I think people are just craving stuff like that, something deeper than a Statline and unit priority

Well... New 'rines....uh...

Lore wise:

A)
I think its fun to picture these secret projects, millennia long, coming to fruition for the benefit of humans and the downfall of others... To me this isn't much different than the necrons sleeping and then waking much later, or if they ever say any of the old ones are alive, or someone finds old ones tech or knowledge beyond what the space elves or necrons know or something... The galaxy is a big place after all, and with this much chaos for so long its not surprising to me for things to disappear into time only to appear later

B)
Frankly, I've always disliked the lack of advancement of the space marines and the imperium at large. I just find it hard to believe at times that say lasguns or IG basic artillery is effective against all the different things out there. I'm reminded of the first stuff I ever read about necrons, some passage in the new SM codex at the time about green blasts of energy instantly destroying vehicles and slicing up armor. That never really changed right since then? So wouldn't necrons just wipe the board with the imperium basically always? Well, if they do, its not much fun story wise now is it... anyways my point is its good to see some new stuff that isn't to outrageous come out story wise. (in an outrageous universe i might add!) Also, I was a huge fan of new weapons tpyes that came out over the years, i wanted to do an SM chapter with grav weapons, but now prime-marines are different :( so that's a bummer.... I don't know if you can do a chapter wide grav gun style sorta like DA.... but hte prime-marines ahve new weapons too so thats something neat!

Model wise IRL:

I keep hearing about the scale issues of 40k. "true scale" etc. I mean if it was that a space marine is the same height as a guardsman as a tau fire warrior has a carnifex...well... uh now what? Different sizes give the tabletop a life, its scary when a giant mawloc is hovering over your firewarriors, just like it would be in-universe!

I don't know much about it all but I do understand that making all the models make sense scale wise would lead to a tank being the size of some gaming tables. Conversely, I'm painting tau fire warriors atm, and i have to use a magnifying glass. period. So, I would appreciate models that are slightly bigger but keep proportional to the context of the game universe. I would love to paint some of the new models! So im sure everyone here can understand the difficulty for people and their painting abilities... its not easy and costly if you screw up at times...


Guys, in the end the models are here to stay, you can still use your old SM, they'll never go away or at least, not for a long time. (but i doubt it will ever cease) they'll jsut slowly make slightly larger models for everything and rebalance some of the the tanks and large vehicles. I personally hate the sizes of tau tanks... so

I read the article, my point is MTG is a CCG without the elements of lore and style. I doubt there are many people in MTG whom are intreasted in fielding a deck that is "lore accurate" (if such a thing can even exist) in 40k for example there are plenty of people who'd wanna field 3 tac squads, 1 assault squad and one devestator squad, you can twist yourself into a pretzel to claim "ohh he's just a jimmy" except... he's not. As MTG said a Jimmy is someone who wants to be uber creative and do his own thing. the Jimmy that MTG just says is one archtype is, within 40k, a dozen seperate archtypes each with their own views.

Well Mtg has a pretty tight knit ruleset so cut people some slack. Magic while having cards that break the game still adhere to most rules like timing and such, but then there are cards you can play to get the first around the timing restrictions. So I think people are just craving stuff like that, something deeper than a Statline and unit priority

of course all that depth is reliant on you getting lucky eneugh to get the card you want thanks to their predatory card sales mechanism

BrianDavion wrote:
I read the article, my point is MTG is a CCG without the elements of lore and style. I doubt there are many people in MTG whom are intreasted in fielding a deck that is "lore accurate" (if such a thing can even exist) in 40k for example there are plenty of people who'd wanna field 3 tac squads, 1 assault squad and one devestator squad, you can twist yourself into a pretzel to claim "ohh he's just a jimmy" except... he's not. As MTG said a Jimmy is someone who wants to be uber creative and do his own thing. the Jimmy that MTG just says is one archtype is, within 40k, a dozen seperate archtypes each with their own views.

Well Mtg has a pretty tight knit ruleset so cut people some slack. Magic while having cards that break the game still adhere to most rules like timing and such, but then there are cards you can play to get the first around the timing restrictions. So I think people are just craving stuff like that, something deeper than a Statline and unit priority

of course all that depth is reliant on you getting lucky eneugh to get the card you want thanks to their predatory card sales mechanism

Well anyone that doesn't buy magic singles from a card shop is usually fishing for that arbitrarily expensive card. Yeah wizards doesn't care about their players at all and it shows with their hyper predatory business practices. EA could take notes

For what it's worth, you can actually make lore friendly decks and you'd be surprised about the depth of its lore to be honest. If you have a hankering for it look up Urza. He's basically the best part of the lore and everything pretty much stems from him.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Hey, plenty of people hate logan on chariot, all the salty hater rage does is make me stronger. Pro primaris types should do he same. I mean most who dislike part of primaris don't just blanket hate them all, just parts of them after all. Why find an enemy when you can instead find a partial ally ?

it gets annoying when you can't discuss something though without having people come in and make the same shallow uninformed arguments (not all arguements against Primaris are shallow and uninformed but many of the more vocal gak posters tend to be) as gto why they suck and if you like them you are somehow impure.

There is a specific Mk8 helmet.

See the deathwatch kill team kit.

Its similar in look to the mk 7 helm but has noticeable differences.

robbienw wrote:
There is a specific Mk8 helmet.

See the deathwatch kill team kit.

Its similar in look to the mk 7 helm but has noticeable differences.

Yes, it is much uglier.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Nitro Zeus wrote:Also, their one dimensional loadouts is antithetical to everything marines imo.

I always love when this sort of comment gets brought up.

As usual, my response is unchanged: What about 30k Marines? Are they not Space Marines? If they're not Space Marines, then what did the Primarchs lead into battle, if not their Legions of Space Marines?

What about Assault Terminators and Centurions? They have very one-dimensional loadouts (fewer than nearly all Primaris units, in fact!)

Assault Terminators are already a sub customization of Terminators. They are identical in everything other than loadout, they are just separated on the FOC, as GW recognises that their role customization is SO broad that they didn't want the FOC to intrude upon the use of them in either aspect. Terminators in the game can have a ton of different load outs ranging from assault, shooting, mixed, etc, and they are one of the units I think have also been designed better in other editions when not put to the side for newer units. Aggressors options are literally a two way choice of either Flamestorm or Boltstorm. The example you give highlights it.

I'm not sure what you mean about 30k. I specifically said 40k, not 30k. The chapters are VERY different from the Legions. You know 30k was a setting that was filled in well after 40k was? In the history of the hobby it's actually quite a new thing, and hasn't retroactively changed the identity of the 40k chapters. When there was 100,000+ strong legions, individual specialisation was not a needed strength as much (except for the ones who operated in smaller teams, and in which case they were given that sort of specialization - an Alpha Legionnaire is trained for every different combat role for example). In 40k, Chapters are a fraction of this size, and customization of individual squads has always been a thing for tac marines in gameplay. Which is why I don't like the move away from that. The difference between Devastators and Hellblasters is a pretty stark example of what I dislike so far for example, if you point at units that aren't as bad at this, well it's probably not an issue I have. You aren't really trying to say that the Primaris range has been designed for the sort of squad customization that squat Marines have right? Surely you recognise what I dislike here?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Also, 40k is going to really lose something when the Rhinos/Land Raiders/Mk8 helmets/Terminators are gone, these things are the most iconic parts of 40k to me personally.

Ignoring that fact that Mark 8 helmets don't exist (I think you mean the Mark 7 'Aquila' pattern helmet, which the Mark 8 'Errant' armour uses), there's been no sign of these units being discontinued, removed, or otherwise made irrelevant. Space Marine Chapters still use all of the above in their lore. Just because there's new types of Space Marine, and some new Chapters entirely comprised of these Primaris Marines exist (which actually still use Land Raiders!) doesn't mean that those older ones are gone.

yeah 7 is right next to 8 on my keyboard at least, so you'll have to excuse the typo, and like you said.... it's still the exact same helmet either way lol

Fair enough on the aesthetics. It just feels like they are pushing TAC marines to the back with the rules writing, they are significantly worse than Primaris, and the difference is jarring, it appears to be some of the best units in the game sharing a codex with some of the worst units in the game, and you can just about draw that line by separating the primaris from the old marines, with some few exceptions. I'm fine with them updating the range and moving past the old one if they are pushing towards that, I'd just like to not entirely lose the iconic aesthetic that helped make me fall in love with this game. I can still use the old Tyranid models for example, that doesn't mean I don't have a personal opinion on the new aesthetic.

With that said, I quite love some of the new marines, and I think the Infiltrators are deliberately made to reference the aquila helmet which I really appreciate. Hope to see more of that, until I do though, my personal issue here is still relevant to me.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Massive GW fan, completely cool with the update to the range, some of the models look great, but I guess having any sort of nuance to a completely subjective opinion is going to make me a “hater”.

Not at all. Calling someone a 'hater' just because they dislike parts of it just screams of reductive antagonism. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with subjective opinion, as long as everyone remembers what the distinction between opinion and fact is. Now, this isn't directed at you (you've not done this), but when someone might claim something like 'XYZ are the core foundations of what it is to be a Space Marine, and Primaris are objectively bad because they don't fit that!", that's not accurate, because XYZ are not universal features - therefore, the statement can't be anything more than an opinion.

Well, as you said, I haven't done that, so I don't really have any response to that, and I can't quite tell why you included it in your response to me. I haven't fully read through this thread though so maybe I'm missing some context, but I don't speak for anyone bar myself, and I was pretty clear to say in my post, "these things are the most iconic parts of 40k to me personally."

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

This obsession with people disliking something that you like isn’t healthy

Fair point. Likewise, I would say that feeling the compulsive need to go onto a thread specifically requesting that negative opinions be left at the door, and leaving a negative opinion is equally unhealthy.

Let people enjoy things. It's not like there's a shortage of threads where you can vent about Primaris Marines.

 Darian Aarush wrote:
I think I generally agree with most of the sentiments here. It was a shock to the system coming back to 40k and finding Primaris everywhere! In a previous life I was actually a Space Orks (as they were then called) player, so it wasn't as bad as it might have been for a Space Marines veteran.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Bjorn_the_Fell_Handed#Bjorn_the_Fell_Handed:_Dark_Imperium




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
(he also really dislikes Cato Sicarius)

Sure he is the only person in the Imperium who does


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nosto7 wrote:
I don't know much about it all but I do understand that making all the models make sense scale wise would lead to a tank being the size of some gaming tables.

You might be surprised at the size of tanks in real life, certainly the cheaper non western MBTs and the west has some very small scout tanks and the like.

Where is this lore on Guilliman not liking Cato Sicarius?

Very interested in seeing this. I've read DI 1 and 2, Knights of Macragge, Crusade, Iron and Blood and many other books set post Rift that involve the Ultras, and I didn't catch this.

 Ishagu wrote:
Where is this lore on Guilliman not liking Cato Sicarius?

Very interested in seeing this. I've read DI 1 and 2, Knights of Macragge, Crusade, Iron and Blood and many other books set post Rift that involve the Ultras, and I didn't catch this.

In DI 1 there was a scene where Guilliman was in his office musing about his staff (early on maybe?) and he basically says that he can't stand Sicarius because he sees him as arrogant, stubborn, and skilled warrior but he also sees that he has the potential to do great things if he can work on his interpersonal skills (hence being taken out of command and into the Vicitrix guard). The dislike was more of a personal interpretation but I stand by it since Cato is a jerk, although now he has hardcore PTSD which might actually temper his character and make him a little more likable. Also If the Emperor had a Text to Speech is not helping my interpretation of Sicarius as well =P

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Where is this lore on Guilliman not liking Cato Sicarius?

Very interested in seeing this. I've read DI 1 and 2, Knights of Macragge, Crusade, Iron and Blood and many other books set post Rift that involve the Ultras, and I didn't catch this.

In DI 1 there was a scene where Guilliman was in his office musing about his staff (early on maybe?) and he basically says that he can't stand Sicarius because he sees him as arrogant, stubborn, and skilled warrior but he also sees that he has the potential to do great things if he can work on his interpersonal skills (hence being taken out of command and into the Vicitrix guard). The dislike was more of a personal interpretation but I stand by it since Cato is a jerk, although now he has hardcore PTSD which might actually temper his character and make him a little more likable. Also If the Emperor had a Text to Speech is not helping my interpretation of Sicarius as well =P

Text To Speech is literally one of the worst things to ever happen for 40k as it dumbs down people that don't bother to look at the actual lore.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Where is this lore on Guilliman not liking Cato Sicarius?

Very interested in seeing this. I've read DI 1 and 2, Knights of Macragge, Crusade, Iron and Blood and many other books set post Rift that involve the Ultras, and I didn't catch this.

In DI 1 there was a scene where Guilliman was in his office musing about his staff (early on maybe?) and he basically says that he can't stand Sicarius because he sees him as arrogant, stubborn, and skilled warrior but he also sees that he has the potential to do great things if he can work on his interpersonal skills (hence being taken out of command and into the Vicitrix guard). The dislike was more of a personal interpretation but I stand by it since Cato is a jerk, although now he has hardcore PTSD which might actually temper his character and make him a little more likable. Also If the Emperor had a Text to Speech is not helping my interpretation of Sicarius as well =P

Text To Speech is literally one of the worst things to ever happen for 40k as it dumbs down people that don't bother to look at the actual lore.

So much truth.....yet I find myself drawn to it for some reason, despite having read upwards of a hundred 40k novels ><. Really I just like the part about Dorn being so weird and Calgar being bored to tears because plot armor makes him invincible.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Where is this lore on Guilliman not liking Cato Sicarius?

Very interested in seeing this. I've read DI 1 and 2, Knights of Macragge, Crusade, Iron and Blood and many other books set post Rift that involve the Ultras, and I didn't catch this.

In DI 1 there was a scene where Guilliman was in his office musing about his staff (early on maybe?) and he basically says that he can't stand Sicarius because he sees him as arrogant, stubborn, and skilled warrior but he also sees that he has the potential to do great things if he can work on his interpersonal skills (hence being taken out of command and into the Vicitrix guard). The dislike was more of a personal interpretation but I stand by it since Cato is a jerk, although now he has hardcore PTSD which might actually temper his character and make him a little more likable. Also If the Emperor had a Text to Speech is not helping my interpretation of Sicarius as well =P

Text To Speech is literally one of the worst things to ever happen for 40k as it dumbs down people that don't bother to look at the actual lore.

Those people would have done the same thing anyway off of memes, 1d4chan, or whatever else existed in its wake. TTS deserves to be labelled as how bad it is in its own right imo

 Nitro Zeus wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Where is this lore on Guilliman not liking Cato Sicarius?

Very interested in seeing this. I've read DI 1 and 2, Knights of Macragge, Crusade, Iron and Blood and many other books set post Rift that involve the Ultras, and I didn't catch this.

In DI 1 there was a scene where Guilliman was in his office musing about his staff (early on maybe?) and he basically says that he can't stand Sicarius because he sees him as arrogant, stubborn, and skilled warrior but he also sees that he has the potential to do great things if he can work on his interpersonal skills (hence being taken out of command and into the Vicitrix guard). The dislike was more of a personal interpretation but I stand by it since Cato is a jerk, although now he has hardcore PTSD which might actually temper his character and make him a little more likable. Also If the Emperor had a Text to Speech is not helping my interpretation of Sicarius as well =P

Text To Speech is literally one of the worst things to ever happen for 40k as it dumbs down people that don't bother to look at the actual lore.

Those people would have done the same thing anyway off of memes, 1d4chan, or whatever else existed in its wake. TTS deserves to be labelled as how bad it is in its own right imo

1d4chan is just as bad, with tactics being bad from there as well.

At least one-off memes are just that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Where is this lore on Guilliman not liking Cato Sicarius?

Very interested in seeing this. I've read DI 1 and 2, Knights of Macragge, Crusade, Iron and Blood and many other books set post Rift that involve the Ultras, and I didn't catch this.

In DI 1 there was a scene where Guilliman was in his office musing about his staff (early on maybe?) and he basically says that he can't stand Sicarius because he sees him as arrogant, stubborn, and skilled warrior but he also sees that he has the potential to do great things if he can work on his interpersonal skills (hence being taken out of command and into the Vicitrix guard). The dislike was more of a personal interpretation but I stand by it since Cato is a jerk, although now he has hardcore PTSD which might actually temper his character and make him a little more likable. Also If the Emperor had a Text to Speech is not helping my interpretation of Sicarius as well =P

Text To Speech is literally one of the worst things to ever happen for 40k as it dumbs down people that don't bother to look at the actual lore.

To be fair it can be argued that 40k takes itself far too seriously for something that was originally built around being a mix of a parody, political humor, and homage to (or blatant rip off) other fantasy/sci fi universes. TTS gives an easy to digest but twisted for comedic effect look at the lore without being quite as over the top as 1d4chan entries. That said it's a parody in itself so it should be viewed as such or at least with that filter in mind when using it to learn about the lore.