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I think the DG codex is working as intended, and whilst I would love some of the units to be improved (it is my main faction after all) I agree that there are far more pressing issues that need dealing with first

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

What? Those differences only exist because of the recent codex release at the start of this edition. Until then they were Nurgle plague marines. That was it.

Excluding Grey Knights, none of the Marine subfactions require a new codex. Deathwatch can have a pdf to allow Phobos stuff if it is considered balanced since we're literally still going through Marine supplement releases now. They can wait until another faction(s) has had something new.

Also looking forward to my Evil Sunz /Speed Freeks codex, given they are actually an in lore completely different sub faction compared to the parent codex.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

What? Those differences only exist because of the recent codex release at the start of this edition. Until then they were Nurgle plague marines. That was it.

I think he meant game wise - Codex: Death Guard is basically a bunch of unique units plus a small collection of default CSM stuff like chaos lords, possessed and the defiler - we don't even have vindicators. DG are to CSM as GK are to SM.
That said, I'd gladly be tossed in with Codex: Chaos Space Marine if that would mean getting access to all their stratagems and units.

Excluding Grey Knights, none of the Marine subfactions require a new codex. Deathwatch can have a pdf to allow Phobos stuff if it is considered balanced since we're literally still going through Marine supplement releases now. They can wait until another faction(s) has had something new.

I'm fairly sure that Dark Angels would disagree, considering how low their win ratio is and that the whole tripple wing thing doesn't work for them.

Also looking forward to my Evil Sunz /Speed Freeks codex, given they are actually an in lore completely different sub faction compared to the parent codex.

Be careful what you wish for. I for one hope that it never happens, for the reasons I've explained before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

No, Mortarion is competitive, and the plaguehull whatever thing. They need an overhaul.

Mortarion is not competitive at all.

The reason why DG keeps showing up in chaos soup are Blightlord Terminators, Foul Blightspawns, Daemon Prince of Nurgle, PBC and the "definitely balanced" FW dreads.
If you go mono-codex(team events) or less into competitive territory, a bunch of options become good enough to run, like blight launcher marines, pox walkers, drones or blight haulers and somewhere behind all that, Mortarion.

DG has a bunch of problems that should be fixed, like the aforementioned T5/T4 and DR inconsistency, few worthwhile stratagems, useless relics, Deathshroud being unable to do their job due to Tactical Reserves, Plague Surgeon being a trap unit and missing units from Shadowspear that DG should have access to (Greater Possessed and Venom Crawler).

Could they use a new codex? Yes. Is it urgent? Naw.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

What? Those differences only exist because of the recent codex release at the start of this edition. Until then they were Nurgle plague marines. That was it.

Excluding Grey Knights, none of the Marine subfactions require a new codex. Deathwatch can have a pdf to allow Phobos stuff if it is considered balanced since we're literally still going through Marine supplement releases now. They can wait until another faction(s) has had something new.

Also looking forward to my Evil Sunz /Speed Freeks codex, given they are actually an in lore completely different sub faction compared to the parent codex.

Please don't start banging this drum again, a speed freaks book needs notable ground work before it could be considered even remotely needed. At present you represent them with bikes, vehicles and speedy mek units, something in abundance in the codex. To expand this to the point where this becomes a new faction they'd either need a host of kits to flesh that out (from nothing), to replace the units they take away, or have a book with far more limited options for fluff reasons.

I get you want xenos releases and they seem to be coming, but the marine factions do exist even if you don't like it, as such they will get updates just the same.

New codex, no, but a bit of a bump would be nice.

The bell guy, tallyman are underwhelming as support characters. Personally, they should have been a single entry with combined rules, but that will never happen now. So give the Tallyman some Rites like the Dark Apostle, and have the Bell guy buff Spawn or Poxwalkers or Gellarpox or something, like a Beastmaster.

Also, make the Standard Bearer a Character, (it has a clam pack) with a decent Area effect (+1 to DR would be nice). Then leave that cowbell as the icon of Nurgle with pointless -1 Ld.

Lastly, infiltrating Poxwalkers, be it through a deepstrike (cargo containers) or or just crawling up from the sewers ala GSC. They opened up the Vigilus series with a Short Story about this cargo container void dropping onto an imperial dock, where thousands of Poxwalkers spilled out. This can easily be applied to the tabletop. We have Cargo container models they're giving away in Killteam and Conquest. Make them transports.

I want pox walkers to be more than just proxy Plaguebearers.

I'd like an Errata that makes Lord, Sorcerer and Possessed T5 and gives them DR with appropriate points increases. Greater Possessed of Nurgle would be cool, too.
That would suffice. Other than that a proper Nurgle Codex would be nice like they did in AoS, with DG and Nurgle Daemons combined.

The Daemons codex needs a redo way more than the Death Guard.
Frankly its a mess.

Why is there even two different data sheets for 'Chaos Lord' and 'Lord of Contagion'?
They should both be combined together into 'Chaos Lord of Nurgle'.
Its nonsensical.

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

What? Those differences only exist because of the recent codex release at the start of this edition. Until then they were Nurgle plague marines. That was it.

Excluding Grey Knights, none of the Marine subfactions require a new codex. Deathwatch can have a pdf to allow Phobos stuff if it is considered balanced since we're literally still going through Marine supplement releases now. They can wait until another faction(s) has had something new.

Also looking forward to my Evil Sunz /Speed Freeks codex, given they are actually an in lore completely different sub faction compared to the parent codex.

Please don't start banging this drum again, a speed freaks book needs notable ground work before it could be considered even remotely needed. At present you represent them with bikes, vehicles and speedy mek units, something in abundance in the codex. To expand this to the point where this becomes a new faction they'd either need a host of kits to flesh that out (from nothing), to replace the units they take away, or have a book with far more limited options for fluff reasons.

I get you want xenos releases and they seem to be coming, but the marine factions do exist even if you don't like it, as such they will get updates just the same.

I'll bang whatever drum I like, thanks. GW have proven time and time again that it works and they simply listen to whoever shouts the loudest. For correction a speed freeks book needs no more work than a DG book, or any other sub faction book. You don't need to worry about how GW would flesh out the book either, the marine supplements contain literally only special characters, stratagems and relics. I see no reason GW can't do this for both Speed freeks and the various CSM legions. There aren't enough notable differences from CSM to EC or WE, without significant extra work, to warrant their own codexes IMO.

Lol you talk as if marines aren't continually updated with gluts of new models and books while we're still in the middle of a Marine release. Classic!

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I want parity, nothing more, nothing less. I'm sick of the obsessive focus with marines and their spiky brothers. It's tiring and boring.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
New codex, no, but a bit of a bump would be nice.

The bell guy, tallyman are underwhelming as support characters. Personally, they should have been a single entry with combined rules, but that will never happen now. So give the Tallyman some Rites like the Dark Apostle, and have the Bell guy buff Spawn or Poxwalkers or Gellarpox or something, like a Beastmaster.

Also, make the Standard Bearer a Character, (it has a clam pack) with a decent Area effect (+1 to DR would be nice). Then leave that cowbell as the icon of Nurgle with pointless -1 Ld.

Lastly, infiltrating Poxwalkers, be it through a deepstrike (cargo containers) or or just crawling up from the sewers ala GSC. They opened up the Vigilus series with a Short Story about this cargo container void dropping onto an imperial dock, where thousands of Poxwalkers spilled out. This can easily be applied to the tabletop. We have Cargo container models they're giving away in Killteam and Conquest. Make them transports.

I want pox walkers to be more than just proxy Plaguebearers.

The "cowbell" gives 2D6 Pick one advance which is pretty handy for an army that ignores penalties for advance and shoot.

Tallyman is a 58% chance to refund CP, which is far better than the usual 33% relics.

Both of these guys are only 55 friggin' points.

Soooo...no.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The "cowbell" gives 2D6 Pick one advance which is pretty handy for an army that ignores penalties for advance and shoot.

Wrong. Death Guard don't ignore penalties for advancing and shooting. Give that rule another read.
Plus the buff boosts their movement by an average of 1" - which is the same amount by which Death Guard units move less than their non-Death Guard equivalents.

Tallyman is a 58% chance to refund CP, which is far better than the usual 33% relics.

Also wrong, rolling exactly 7 is a 16.66% chance. Unlike most relics, it also doesn't work for non-Death Guard stratagems, most notably the command re-roll.

For 55 points reroll hits in CC with the Tallyman is actually very handy and makes him an auto-include in CC focused DG lists.
As A DG player I say there should be nothing that provides +1 to DR, it would be too powerful as we saw in 7th edition. It's good that that one relic is very limited.
That makes it tough to find a niché for the surgeon, though. Right now his best use is as a Marinekiller as his Aura isn't that great. Maybe he should be able to revive dead models or heal characters.
Nurgle Icon could need something else, but I'd be fine if it simply went down 5 points. Or gave you a movement bonus like an Instrument.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
For 55 points reroll hits in CC with the Tallyman is actually very handy and makes him an auto-include in CC focused DG lists.

True, CC focused lists aren't awesome though, and he can't keep up with most CC units.

As A DG player I say there should be nothing that provides +1 to DR, it would be too powerful as we saw in 7th edition. It's good that that one relic is very limited.
That makes it tough to find a niché for the surgeon, though. Right now his best use is as a Marinekiller as his Aura isn't that great. Maybe he should be able to revive dead models or heal characters.

I agree. Giving +1 to DR for just infantry might a viable though, DP, vehicles and Mortarion don't need that buff.

Nurgle Icon could need something else, but I'd be fine if it simply went down 5 points. Or gave you a movement bonus like an Instrument.

We already have the bell for movement though. Something like +1 damage on rolls of six would be nice or giving all bolters in the unit the plague weapon special rule. Plague marines could use some extra damage.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The "cowbell" gives 2D6 Pick one advance which is pretty handy for an army that ignores penalties for advance and shoot.

Wrong. Death Guard don't ignore penalties for advancing and shooting. Give that rule another read.
Plus the buff boosts their movement by an average of 1" - which is the same amount by which Death Guard units move less than their non-Death Guard equivalents.

Tallyman is a 58% chance to refund CP, which is far better than the usual 33% relics.

Also wrong, rolling exactly 7 is a 16.66% chance. Unlike most relics, it also doesn't work for non-Death Guard stratagems, most notably the command re-roll.

They don't? Obviously not for all guns.

Such units do not suffer a penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons, or for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.

I concede the Tallyman. I have been lied to.

 Jidmah wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

What? Those differences only exist because of the recent codex release at the start of this edition. Until then they were Nurgle plague marines. That was it.

I think he meant game wise - Codex: Death Guard is basically a bunch of unique units plus a small collection of default CSM stuff like chaos lords, possessed and the defiler - we don't even have vindicators. DG are to CSM as GK are to SM.
That said, I'd gladly be tossed in with Codex: Chaos Space Marine if that would mean getting access to all their stratagems and units.

Excluding Grey Knights, none of the Marine subfactions require a new codex. Deathwatch can have a pdf to allow Phobos stuff if it is considered balanced since we're literally still going through Marine supplement releases now. They can wait until another faction(s) has had something new.

I'm fairly sure that Dark Angels would disagree, considering how low their win ratio is and that the whole tripple wing thing doesn't work for them.

Also looking forward to my Evil Sunz /Speed Freeks codex, given they are actually an in lore completely different sub faction compared to the parent codex.

Be careful what you wish for. I for one hope that it never happens, for the reasons I've explained before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

No, Mortarion is competitive, and the plaguehull whatever thing. They need an overhaul.

Mortarion is not competitive at all.

The reason why DG keeps showing up in chaos soup are Blightlord Terminators, Foul Blightspawns, Daemon Prince of Nurgle, PBC and the "definitely balanced" FW dreads.
If you go mono-codex(team events) or less into competitive territory, a bunch of options become good enough to run, like blight launcher marines, pox walkers, drones or blight haulers and somewhere behind all that, Mortarion.

DG has a bunch of problems that should be fixed, like the aforementioned T5/T4 and DR inconsistency, few worthwhile stratagems, useless relics, Deathshroud being unable to do their job due to Tactical Reserves, Plague Surgeon being a trap unit and missing units from Shadowspear that DG should have access to (Greater Possessed and Venom Crawler).

Could they use a new codex? Yes. Is it urgent? Naw.

Mortarion is still showing up last I checked.

And yeah you're right it isn't urgent. HOWEVER, it is a pretty lazy codex to try and make the army different to the rest of the CSM codex. There's some REALLY cool ideas, but the execution on many of them falls flat and the inconsistencies are pretty frickin lame. Not to mention the lost units you were using the last 4 or so editions is a kick to old players.

Idk if DG “need” a new codex. Their relentless advance rule could use a little tweak. Some small points tweaks. The Lord could use getting an update for sure.

There’s other armies that need so much more though. The wolf angels need help. Mechanicus still has some issues. Guard, while combat effective as a whole, has a ton of units that straight up suck. Inquisition may as well have been squatted at this point. Chaos Space Marines (the units) are still crap.

Honestly if I had to make a list of need for new codexes, Death Guard would be near the bottom.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

What? Those differences only exist because of the recent codex release at the start of this edition. Until then they were Nurgle plague marines. That was it.

Excluding Grey Knights, none of the Marine subfactions require a new codex. Deathwatch can have a pdf to allow Phobos stuff if it is considered balanced since we're literally still going through Marine supplement releases now. They can wait until another faction(s) has had something new.

Also looking forward to my Evil Sunz /Speed Freeks codex, given they are actually an in lore completely different sub faction compared to the parent codex.

Please don't start banging this drum again, a speed freaks book needs notable ground work before it could be considered even remotely needed. At present you represent them with bikes, vehicles and speedy mek units, something in abundance in the codex. To expand this to the point where this becomes a new faction they'd either need a host of kits to flesh that out (from nothing), to replace the units they take away, or have a book with far more limited options for fluff reasons.

I get you want xenos releases and they seem to be coming, but the marine factions do exist even if you don't like it, as such they will get updates just the same.

I'll bang whatever drum I like, thanks. GW have proven time and time again that it works and they simply listen to whoever shouts the loudest. For correction a speed freeks book needs no more work than a DG book, or any other sub faction book. You don't need to worry about how GW would flesh out the book either, the marine supplements contain literally only special characters, stratagems and relics. I see no reason GW can't do this for both Speed freeks and the various CSM legions. There aren't enough notable differences from CSM to EC or WE, without significant extra work, to warrant their own codexes IMO.

Lol you talk as if marines aren't continually updated with gluts of new models and books while we're still in the middle of a Marine release. Classic!

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I want parity, nothing more, nothing less. I'm sick of the obsessive focus with marines and their spiky brothers. It's tiring and boring.

Yes, 14 new kits is all it took to get death guard where they are, you are right though speed freaks don't need 14 new kits, because they're already fairly representable.

Chaos in all flavours needed some attention going into the edition and you'd be hard pressed to deny that. Orks need less love than many other factions as grey knights, custodes and harlies have a very limited range.

Sisters are getting an update around the corner, eldar & dark eldar are getting releases soon, there is talk of an ork release and all you can do is whine that marines got some expensive supplements and half a dozen kits.

The only thing more boring than marine releases are "why can't I have that, gw hates me" crusades.

Sumilidon wrote:GW only just buffed DG, I doubt we'll see a new codex anytime soon

Really, I haven't heard of any relevant buffs, unless you're talking about Hateful Assault.

wuestenfux wrote:Chaos has been treated quite well recently.

There is one faction that comes to my mind which will need an update: Grey Knights.

CSM, yes arguably, but DG hasn't seen any sort of buff or update except changes in point costs and hateful assault since it's release, and even those have never made it better than bottom mid-tier in terms of competitive play, and that's mostly through souping daemons.
I don't know if an entire new codex is what the DG needs, but at the very least they need an update and are definitely among those early armies that need it the most, alongside certainly GK. Compare to say the IG, who not only have always been in a far better place but have also received new Specialist Detachments with Vigilus.

Honestly, rather than the nigh-worthless codex they got, I'd be far happier with the DG if they (and the other cult legions) got the Codex Supplement treatment. Sure, it would mean more books to buy, which is a pain especially financially, but they would end up in a far better place than either they or TS are now.

As it is if during this edition's lifespan we get anything better than CA giving our lords and sorcerers T5 and DR, I'll be incredibly and pleasantly surprised.

And yes, I admit there are armies that require it more, like the aforementioned Grey Knights, but I also honestly don't care? I'd be happy for them if they get updated, but of course, my priority lies with my own army.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
The "cowbell" gives 2D6 Pick one advance which is pretty handy for an army that ignores penalties for advance and shoot.

Wrong. Death Guard don't ignore penalties for advancing and shooting. Give that rule another read.

They don't? Obviously not for all guns.

Now then, list all the assault guns that can be taken on death guard units which benefit from Inexorable Advance and are not auto-hitting anyways.

The only ones In-Codex are the blight launchers and the melta gun, there's a maybe 1 or two more looking at FW Dreads, but that's it. Combined with our 18'' RF being made near obsolete thanks to the bolter rule (the only use is on plasma guns), the DG Legion Trait has only gotten worse over time.

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, 14 new kits is all it took to get death guard where they are, you are right though speed freaks don't need 14 new kits, because they're already fairly representable.

Irrelevant and completely missing the point.

Chaos in all flavours needed some attention going into the edition and you'd be hard pressed to deny that.

Compared to what? I deny it.

Orks need less love than many other factions as grey knights, custodes and harlies have a very limited range.

I'm not surprised that a faction that has existed as long as 40k has more models than those invented recently, one of which was released literally last year.

Guess who needs more love? Guess which faction has had none. That's right - Evil Sunz boiiii.

Sisters are getting an update around the corner, eldar & dark eldar are getting releases soon, there is talk of an ork release and all you can do is whine that marines got some expensive supplements and half a dozen kits.

The only thing more boring than marine releases are "why can't I have that, gw hates me" crusades.

It's like trying to have a conversation with a brick wall.

Here's my stance, since you clearly don't understand it; I find it incredible that factions of certain sub factions, that already have a unique codex, that (it could be argued) they didn't really need in the first place, are clamouring for a second codex. I think there are many other factions more deserving, my own (of course) included.

People here appear to be talking past one another. There are two questions that people have addressed, and I really don't see any genuine disagreement.

1) Does DG need a new codex?
Yes. The recent SM release represents a dramatic shift in codex design that has revolutionised the game. In order to achieve something akin to parity all armies need a similar treatment.

2) Does DG need a new codex sooner than other armies?
No. Although DG has never been a top tier codex (at least since the rule of three), DR is an immensely powerful special rule that will always keep them relevant.

2a) An addendum to the above: There are many armies which are Ur-SM in this game; armies that are basically variations on SM. These include CSM, DG, TS, BA, DA, SW, and GK. The reason why these people clamour for a codex is that the armies have such similar tools that a dramatic increase in the power of one of these means that playing any other against them becomes extremely difficult, in a way it doesn't for other factions that play differently (see: Kenos factions particularly). So the increase in the power of SM has meant that it's really hard for any of these other codices to compete with them. Now, again, GK are in the worst position here, and demand most immediate attention in an ideal world.

But hey, this isn't a business pitch to GW that will have demonstrable effect. It's Theoryhammer on Dakka. So let's just let people have a reasonable chat about how DG could be changed to compete with the new SM release, and what we would hope for in a similar Chaos release. If we can't pass our time in such ways, then, god help us, we might have to get back to painting our models.

Most armies could use a new codex now that space marines really raised the bar. Deathguard don't need it more than some other armies do. If GW actually wanted to do some changes out side a codex drop they would be able to really touch up a few armies and they'd be totally good for awhile yet, even with the new tone to codex drops if we are to take space marines to be.

I mean we'll see with the sisters codex, if that sucks or is just average I can't imagine the backlash people will have.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

What? Those differences only exist because of the recent codex release at the start of this edition. Until then they were Nurgle plague marines. That was it.

Excluding Grey Knights, none of the Marine subfactions require a new codex. Deathwatch can have a pdf to allow Phobos stuff if it is considered balanced since we're literally still going through Marine supplement releases now. They can wait until another faction(s) has had something new.

Also looking forward to my Evil Sunz /Speed Freeks codex, given they are actually an in lore completely different sub faction compared to the parent codex.

I want a Militarum Tempestus codex again. All it needs is all the Militarum Tempestus units and all the units from the Advisors and Auxillia list. On that note, I wouldn’t care even if they removed Ogryns/Bullgryns and Ratlings from the list for the codex.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, 14 new kits is all it took to get death guard where they are, you are right though speed freaks don't need 14 new kits, because they're already fairly representable.

Irrelevant and completely missing the point.

Chaos in all flavours needed some attention going into the edition and you'd be hard pressed to deny that.

Compared to what? I deny it.

Orks need less love than many other factions as grey knights, custodes and harlies have a very limited range.

I'm not surprised that a faction that has existed as long as 40k has more models than those invented recently, one of which was released literally last year.

Guess who needs more love? Guess which faction has had none. That's right - Evil Sunz boiiii.

Sisters are getting an update around the corner, eldar & dark eldar are getting releases soon, there is talk of an ork release and all you can do is whine that marines got some expensive supplements and half a dozen kits.

The only thing more boring than marine releases are "why can't I have that, gw hates me" crusades.

It's like trying to have a conversation with a brick wall.

Here's my stance, since you clearly don't understand it; I find it incredible that factions of certain sub factions, that already have a unique codex, that (it could be argued) they didn't really need in the first place, are clamouring for a second codex. I think there are many other factions more deserving, my own (of course) included.

Weird, it feels the same from my side!

But on topic yes the death guard rapid fire rules are a bit weird an outdated now, so they need a little consideration but are still functional for now. Other books need a look in first.

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, 14 new kits is all it took to get death guard where they are, you are right though speed freaks don't need 14 new kits, because they're already fairly representable.

Irrelevant and completely missing the point.

Chaos in all flavours needed some attention going into the edition and you'd be hard pressed to deny that.

Compared to what? I deny it.

Orks need less love than many other factions as grey knights, custodes and harlies have a very limited range.

I'm not surprised that a faction that has existed as long as 40k has more models than those invented recently, one of which was released literally last year.

Guess who needs more love? Guess which faction has had none. That's right - Evil Sunz boiiii.

Sisters are getting an update around the corner, eldar & dark eldar are getting releases soon, there is talk of an ork release and all you can do is whine that marines got some expensive supplements and half a dozen kits.

The only thing more boring than marine releases are "why can't I have that, gw hates me" crusades.

It's like trying to have a conversation with a brick wall.

Here's my stance, since you clearly don't understand it; I find it incredible that factions of certain sub factions, that already have a unique codex, that (it could be argued) they didn't really need in the first place, are clamouring for a second codex. I think there are many other factions more deserving, my own (of course) included.

Weird, it feels the same from my side!

But on topic yes the death guard rapid fire rules are a bit weird an outdated now, so they need a little consideration but are still functional for now. Other books need a look in first.

Geeze It's almost like everyone wants additional support for their armies. Who'd have thunk!

Chaos needs the same treatment the marines got. Parent codex with Chapter Supplements.

 puma713 wrote:
Chaos needs the same treatment the marines got. Parent codex with Chapter Supplements.

Yes this but it might be possible just with supplements. The key thing is to make each legion feel and play different not just be black legion painted differently. Dg already have this though they could use some updates. Personally I think many of the legion traits from 30k could be adapted for this. Like giving night lords the a talent for murder rule and making their raptors more like night raptors.

BrianDavion wrote:
Geeze It's almost like everyone wants additional support for their armies. Who'd have thunk!

There is a slight difference between wanting an existing codex to be updated and insisting on creating a new sub-faction codex.

 Jidmah wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Geeze It's almost like everyone wants additional support for their armies. Who'd have thunk!

There is a slight difference between wanting an existing codex to be updated and insisting on creating a new sub-faction codex.

Bingo. Nobody is against some additional stuff for the Chapters, but these supplements were such a bad idea.

 Jidmah wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Geeze It's almost like everyone wants additional support for their armies. Who'd have thunk!

There is a slight difference between wanting an existing codex to be updated and insisting on creating a new sub-faction codex.

Glad you get it, I'm not fussed for a massive expansion or re-write of what I play, it doesn't need it.

I'm not fussed about inventing new factions overly, although there are some that need padding out a little.

Xenos do need some love, the eldar range is still ancient mostly, Harlequins is barely there (despite being an "old" army), then necrons and orks have some outdated kits that need a look in. But these aren't solved by inventing new supplements and codex "just because marine have it".