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It definitely needs some work imo for like making our chaos lord have DR and T5 or making the plague surgeon useful. Also I feel we we really need better stratagems. But what are your opinions? If you agree how do we get something done?

We all do after this Marine debacle.

It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

When World Eaters and Emperors Children don't even have v1.0?

There are some things left on the cutting room floor. Like the lords not feeling very DG at all. I think most of this could be handled with some unit changes. The lack of exciting strats though ? That's a tough one, maybe that is what psychic awakening will do for the other factions ? Drop in stuff to match the new marine dex madness ?

At this point I think they should un nerf the zombie strat at least.

I'd say though there won't be a new DG codex for quite some time and the best bet is to hope for some psychic awakening love. Whenever that is supposed to be, at this pace could be awhile off for everyone involved.

I'm kind of shocked DG got a codex at all, since up until the moment of release they didn't really feel like a subfaction that was more deserving of the update than any other CSM subfaction.
That being said, I feel like they're in a stronger place than a lot of other chapters. Unlike vanilla CSM, they don't suffer from their vehicles not getting their normal army buffs, and while they don't have a lot of stratagems, nearly all of the stratagems they do have are pretty useful. The only ones that seem outright bad are Boons, Killshot, and Plague Pact (since summoning in general is pretty bad). Ten useful stratagems is a pretty good number, especially for a niche subfaction, and some of those are devestatingly good if used in the right circumstances.

If there are balance issues, I feel like most of them can be fixed by points changes. The codex has pretty good internal balance, with all of its units having a good reason to exist and filling a valuably niche.

I'd say no, they don't need a new codex. Like with most armies it would be nice for DG players to get one, but they're low on the priority list.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

No, Mortarion is competitive, and the plaguehull whatever thing. They need an overhaul.

If DG gets a new one, i want a new one for my Quins!

Moonknight wrote:
It definitely needs some work imo for like making our chaos lord have DR and T5 or making the plague surgeon useful. Also I feel we we really need better stratagems. But what are your opinions? If you agree how do we get something done?

Nah, they're a bit old feeling due to the early edition curse, but they're ageing reasonably well so far.

Grey knights need some love first and foremost at this stage, after that I'm not sure. Probably dark angels.

Well we got the extra attack, and let's be honest we all know that this CA is going to be thick with changes.

Let's see, they need to fix traits for CSM, they need to give them doctrine equivalents to promote mono faction. Which kinda sets a precedent for all factions in my opinion and if they don't get something we'll never hear the end of it.

Which is just going to make the game even killier and faster

Oh plus there's the standard missions and such too!

No.

Competitively they're still solid. Points efficient and hard to kill units are always solid. They're one of the armies I seem to struggle against with just about every army I play.

This is the problem as I see it though, your post highlights it perfectly.

GW has started giving the fans what they want. Every time they capitulate, it only emboldens the fans more and soon wish-listing becomes actual rules. This process leads to game imbalance and power creep on far more extreme levels.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

 chimeara wrote:
Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

Literally all other Chaos forces would need one before DG needs another.
Even the recently "updated" csm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

Difference that until recently did not exist.
And Lore wise there is a case to be made for EC and TS before them in uniqueness.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

Literally all other Chaos forces would need one before DG needs another.
Even the recently "updated" csm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

Difference that until recently did not exist.
And Lore wise there is a case to be made for EC and TS before them in uniqueness.

Maybe Thousand Sons, but certainly not Emperors Children. Based on 7th though, everyone having access to everything was fine, even though there were some lackluster rules.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

Literally all other Chaos forces would need one before DG needs another.
Even the recently "updated" csm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

Difference that until recently did not exist.
And Lore wise there is a case to be made for EC and TS before them in uniqueness.

Maybe Thousand Sons, but certainly not Emperors Children. Based on 7th though, everyone having access to everything was fine, even though there were some lackluster rules.

Now you show lack of knowledge, EC literally is a bunch of modified insane freaks and they still have apothecaries etc.

Deathguard was just plaguemarines until recently, even lore wise.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

Literally all other Chaos forces would need one before DG needs another.
Even the recently "updated" csm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

Difference that until recently did not exist.
And Lore wise there is a case to be made for EC and TS before them in uniqueness.

Maybe Thousand Sons, but certainly not Emperors Children. Based on 7th though, everyone having access to everything was fine, even though there were some lackluster rules.

Now you show lack of knowledge, EC literally is a bunch of modified insane freaks and they still have apothecaries etc.

Deathguard was just plaguemarines until recently, even lore wise.

Actually, one of my ideas for consolidation is generic Apothecaries becoming an option for Chaos (because you and I both know they exist for the Legions), and then one of the unique units Death Guard get is their Plague Surgeon or whatever it's called.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

Literally all other Chaos forces would need one before DG needs another.
Even the recently "updated" csm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

Difference that until recently did not exist.
And Lore wise there is a case to be made for EC and TS before them in uniqueness.

Maybe Thousand Sons, but certainly not Emperors Children. Based on 7th though, everyone having access to everything was fine, even though there were some lackluster rules.

Now you show lack of knowledge, EC literally is a bunch of modified insane freaks and they still have apothecaries etc.

Deathguard was just plaguemarines until recently, even lore wise.

Actually, one of my ideas for consolidation is generic Apothecaries becoming an option for Chaos (because you and I both know they exist for the Legions), and then one of the unique units Death Guard get is their Plague Surgeon or whatever it's called.

Out of GW perspective that would be dumb because they can't sell you more rulesets.

As for apothecaries, honestly there are a lot more glaring issues, like the supposed ancient tech with Chaos that basically only is fw, not to mention especially any anti-grav vehicle like landspeeders etc.

Also a true fighter not a flying turkey would be something.
And don't get me started on pods

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

Literally all other Chaos forces would need one before DG needs another.
Even the recently "updated" csm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It could be argued that you didn’t ‘need’ a codex at all. That like every other faction excluding marines, your sub factions should be included in your primary and only codex. The same goes for TS.

Death Guard are pretty strong competitively. They have a number of very efficient units. I’d say there are more pressing codexes for GW to look at first and that DG will not and should not be top priority.

Deathguard are one of the most differant from the parent subfaction codices out there dude. they share some units in common yes but there's also a ton of differance.

that said I agree that Deathguard could proably wait, of the Marine subfactions the ones most in need of a new codex are Grey Knights and proably death watch (who need a new codex to get access to the Phobos stuff)

Difference that until recently did not exist.
And Lore wise there is a case to be made for EC and TS before them in uniqueness.

Maybe Thousand Sons, but certainly not Emperors Children. Based on 7th though, everyone having access to everything was fine, even though there were some lackluster rules.

Now you show lack of knowledge, EC literally is a bunch of modified insane freaks and they still have apothecaries etc.

Deathguard was just plaguemarines until recently, even lore wise.

Actually, one of my ideas for consolidation is generic Apothecaries becoming an option for Chaos (because you and I both know they exist for the Legions), and then one of the unique units Death Guard get is their Plague Surgeon or whatever it's called.

Out of GW perspective that would be dumb because they can't sell you more rulesets.

As for apothecaries, honestly there are a lot more glaring issues, like the supposed ancient tech with Chaos that basically only is fw, not to mention especially any anti-grav vehicle like landspeeders etc.

Also a true fighter not a flying turkey would be something.
And don't get me started on pods

And those slight differences are fine, because CSM get Dinobots and Daemon goodies. However I think we can agree that CSM finally getting Apothecaries doesn't break anything.

No they are most certainly not FINE.
if you are supposed to have an ancient hyper technological Arsenal, yet for some reason you don't at the same time and instead got dinobots that 60% of the legions would not use there's a issue.

Not Online!!! wrote:
No they are most certainly not FINE.
if you are supposed to have an ancient hyper technological Arsenal, yet for some reason you don't at the same time and instead got dinobots that 60% of the legions would not use there's a issue.

And FW can cover those rarer pieces of equipment like they always have. The issue is treating CSM like Spiky Marines but with less tech, and that's just wrong. They should be treated as legit Vets from the Legions, with Daemon Engines and other corrupted goodies. I said it before and I'll say it again: Deathwatch infantry plays like CSM generic Infantry should.

 Eldarain wrote:
We all do after this Marine debacle.

^ This

 Togusa wrote:
This is the problem as I see it though, your post highlights it perfectly.

GW has started giving the fans what they want. Every time they capitulate, it only emboldens the fans more and soon wish-listing becomes actual rules. This process leads to game imbalance and power creep on far more extreme levels.

People should pay more attention to this post. People cry power creep, but then scrabble to get their own.

CA is little more than 2 months out and maybe we'll get lucky with the 2 week FAQ for IH.

GW only just buffed DG, I doubt we'll see a new codex anytime soon

Chaos has been treated quite well recently.

There is one faction that comes to my mind which will need an update: Grey Knights.

They don't need a new codex, but an update to some of the units (such as a Lord with Disgustingly Resilient and access to DG weapons) and maybe a Specialist Detachment would be appropriate.

 chimeara wrote:
Moreover, I think WE and EC should get a codex before TS and DG get an update.

100 times this.

If DG need to be looked at fine, but for now leave that in the realm of Chapter Approved books. Let's get the other cult Chaos Legions back into place first, then work backwards.

After the arrival of the new marine dex all older books need an upgrade to give them Pure Faction bonus and more numerous and interesting strats.

This goes double for any flavour of marines as it is far easier to compare and contrast to see the obvious imbalances between the releases.

That said, comparing just the older style dexs DG are fairing reasonably well and are in no more need then any of the others released within the first year of the edition.

I'm hopeful that Psychic awakening may well bring the Pure Faction bonus out for the other armies or perhaps chapter approved.

 WisdomLS wrote:
After the arrival of the new marine dex all older books need an upgrade to give them Pure Faction bonus and more numerous and interesting strats.

This goes double for any flavour of marines as it is far easier to compare and contrast to see the obvious imbalances between the releases.

That said, comparing just the older style dexs DG are fairing reasonably well and are in no more need then any of the others released within the first year of the edition.

I'm hopeful that Psychic awakening may well bring the Pure Faction bonus out for the other armies or perhaps chapter approved.

The daemons codex for me was a bit of a swing and a miss due to the nature of soup, I found it weird that they push rewards for mono god detachments, which sort of suggests they wanted it to work in tandem with the mortal followers for each god, rather than a smattering of combined daemons as you might expect from how they're shown to people. The DE patrol CP structure handles this better.