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One of the things I've been thinking about since the release of Primaris marines (and the fact you can't put them in Rhinos/Land Raiders and conversely oldMarines in Repulsors) is getting rid of the idea of "Dedicated" transports.

Personally, I would like to see transports be able to pick up and drop off any infantry unit in your army - so long as they would fit. Want to bring in that Tac squad at the start of the battle, and then move your Hellblasters to another area of the battle quickly? Sure. Got Harli allies you want to scoot around in your Land Raider? Go for it.

What do ya'll think?

I mean, this is how transports already work, except that units can't go into transports that they can't fit in. Primaris can't fit in Rhinos, not because of geometric space, but because the chairs aren't designed for them. (Or whatever.)

You can bring in that tac squad, then move your devestators to another part of the battle quickly. I'm fine with units not being able to universally get into transports that weren't designed for them, both for fluff reasons, (Imperial Guardsman being allowed in a land raider is practically Heresy,) and for balance reasons (Cramming anything you want into a Drop Pod is balance heresy).

Or they could just re-scale a new Rhino sculpt, because there's no way 10 Power Armor space marines fit in that thing, and if it did, Primaris aren't so much bigger that they couldn't fit inside, just fewer of them. Any vehicle that fits Terminators should fit Primaris just fine.

 John Prins wrote:
Or they could just re-scale a new Rhino sculpt, because there's no way 10 Power Armor space marines fit in that thing, and if it did, Primaris aren't so much bigger that they couldn't fit inside, just fewer of them. Any vehicle that fits Terminators should fit Primaris just fine.

It's not about the geometric space, it's about the design and the seating. You don't want to be riding in the back of a military ATV speeding through craters and ruined without an appropriately built and scaled seat to strap yourself into.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Or they could just re-scale a new Rhino sculpt, because there's no way 10 Power Armor space marines fit in that thing, and if it did, Primaris aren't so much bigger that they couldn't fit inside, just fewer of them. Any vehicle that fits Terminators should fit Primaris just fine.

It's not about the geometric space, it's about the design and the seating. You don't want to be riding in the back of a military ATV speeding through craters and ruined without an appropriately built and scaled seat to strap yourself into.

An argument I could accept a lot easier if Rhinos were designed from the ground up to carry space marines, but they're an STC design that predates marines by possibly 20,000 years. Obviously they were able to put in seats for Marines (and power armored Sisters of Battle), they can do the same for Primaris.

The real reason is obvious, sell more models, when what they should be doing is make the new models different enough/good enough they sell themselves. For example, the Impulsor having Fly, Assault Vehicle and a 4++ save makes it such a good transport that I won't miss Rhinos for my Primaris.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Or they could just re-scale a new Rhino sculpt, because there's no way 10 Power Armor space marines fit in that thing, and if it did, Primaris aren't so much bigger that they couldn't fit inside, just fewer of them. Any vehicle that fits Terminators should fit Primaris just fine.

It's not about the geometric space, it's about the design and the seating. You don't want to be riding in the back of a military ATV speeding through craters and ruined without an appropriately built and scaled seat to strap yourself into.

I've done that. You get a fold up aluminum bench in a Bradley fighting vehicle. With my helmet on I was too tall to sit up straight.

The Primaris would fit.

Nobody can tell you what you can/can't do except your opponent. If you want to transport things, go for it. It's your game until you turn up to a tournament, or pick-up-game, etc.

Only if it works cross faction also, b.c that means Sisters can take Drop pods, and i always wanted SoB with drop pods.

Actually i did for 2 months when Flesh Terrors book came out in 7th, i bought 7 Drop pods and played it for 2 months, most fun i ever had with SoB.... then GW said NO!, B.c admech had that stupid insanely OP drop pod list and ruined it for everyone.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I mean, this is how transports already work, except that units can't go into transports that they can't fit in. Primaris can't fit in Rhinos, not because of geometric space, but because the chairs aren't designed for them. (Or whatever.)

You can bring in that tac squad, then move your devestators to another part of the battle quickly. I'm fine with units not being able to universally get into transports that weren't designed for them, both for fluff reasons, (Imperial Guardsman being allowed in a land raider is practically Heresy,) and for balance reasons (Cramming anything you want into a Drop Pod is balance heresy).

Wow, I somehow missed that - I guess I carried over my assumptions from previous versions that "Dedicated" meant you had to assign the transport to a given squad and only that squad could use it. I can't find that rule in the BRB or codexes. Though I find it strange they still refer to them as "dedicated transports".

 Stormonu wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
I mean, this is how transports already work, except that units can't go into transports that they can't fit in. Primaris can't fit in Rhinos, not because of geometric space, but because the chairs aren't designed for them. (Or whatever.)

You can bring in that tac squad, then move your devestators to another part of the battle quickly. I'm fine with units not being able to universally get into transports that weren't designed for them, both for fluff reasons, (Imperial Guardsman being allowed in a land raider is practically Heresy,) and for balance reasons (Cramming anything you want into a Drop Pod is balance heresy).

Wow, I somehow missed that - I guess I carried over my assumptions from previous versions that "Dedicated" meant you had to assign the transport to a given squad and only that squad could use it. I can't find that rule in the BRB or codexes. Though I find it strange they still refer to them as "dedicated transports".

Pretty sure even in past editions transports worked like you're describing.

You usually had to start the same squad inside them that you bought them for, but once the battle started you were free to swap around transports and passengers however you liked.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Or they could just re-scale a new Rhino sculpt, because there's no way 10 Power Armor space marines fit in that thing, and if it did, Primaris aren't so much bigger that they couldn't fit inside, just fewer of them. Any vehicle that fits Terminators should fit Primaris just fine.

It's not about the geometric space, it's about the design and the seating. You don't want to be riding in the back of a military ATV speeding through craters and ruined without an appropriately built and scaled seat to strap yourself into.

That would be a better explanation if you couldn't switch marines and terminators around in a land raider. And honestly, why can't Primaris fit in Land Raiders - Primarchs can!

I'm ok with Rhinos/Razorbacks not being able to carry Primaris models, but LRs and Drop Pods 100% should be able to. Just count them as 2 models each for capacity due to their size.
If you can fit 10 Marines in a DP, you should have no issue fitting 5 Primaris with SLIGHT modification to the interior harness system.

What's worse is the non-Primaris cannot fit into Repulsors/Impulsors. Cuz that makes so much sense.

-

 Galef wrote:
I'm ok with Rhinos/Razorbacks not being able to carry Primaris models, but LRs and Drop Pods 100% should be able to. Just count them as 2 models each for capacity due to their size.
If you can fit 10 Marines in a DP, you should have no issue fitting 5 Primaris with SLIGHT modification to the interior harness system.

What's worse is the non-Primaris cannot fit into Repulsors/Impulsors. Cuz that makes so much sense.

-

If you notice in the detail shots in the Codex for the Impulser, there's a round indent that the Primaris backpack plugs directly into to charge. The mini-Marines aren't equipped with the same technology. Thatdetail about not being cross compatible due to technologies has been in the fluff since the Primaris were introduced.

No one is arguing that the fluff doesn't say X, Y and Z. We're simply pointing out that it's poorly written fluff, only being used to manipulate the sale of models. In the "real world" in any circumstance, Marines would simply make it work. This is not something you're allowed to do in 40K per the normal rules, of course.

In a combat situation, if a Marine force was in full retreat, and a Rhino skidded to a halt next to five Primaris marines, you can be damn sure they're getting in (or even, on) the Rhino. Even if it means ripped off the top hatch so they can stand up inside, etc. Likewise if your ship was being shot out of orbit, and you had a Drop Pod, but you were Primaris? You're getting in the Drop Pod, safety be damned. You're a Space Marine, you'll manage.

This is where rulebook rules often don't account for a million narrative possibilities which make complete sense. They're the Adeptus Astartes. If they had left-over Rhinos you can be damn sure they'd modify them within a week to fit five Primaris, if the need was there. No one is arguing that GW hasn't tried to justify it, rather poorly, we're simply saying it's dumb.

This is where narrative gaming shines. If you approach me with a completely logical and reasonable houserule or suggestion...go for it. "Hey do mind if I run drop pods with five Primaris in each?" Sure. Go nuts. This isn't going to break the game, it's a rule that exists solely to promote new model lines from GW and nothing more. I'm 100% fine with ignoring those kind of silly limitations. Even better if you're running it in a story/narrative game and our scenario is that your drop pods are descending from a blown up ship. Roll a D6 for each model when it sets down. For each roll of a '1' the unit suffers a mortal wound because the Primaris weren't properly strapped in, etc.

No one can tell you how to play the game, unless you elect to play in an event, etc. Common sense and cool factor should be used more often than not.

 Galef wrote:
What's worse is the non-Primaris cannot fit into Repulsors/Impulsors. Cuz that makes so much sense.

Original Marines require Lightning cables, Primaris use USB-C to recharge their power packs.

 vipoid wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
I mean, this is how transports already work, except that units can't go into transports that they can't fit in. Primaris can't fit in Rhinos, not because of geometric space, but because the chairs aren't designed for them. (Or whatever.)

You can bring in that tac squad, then move your devestators to another part of the battle quickly. I'm fine with units not being able to universally get into transports that weren't designed for them, both for fluff reasons, (Imperial Guardsman being allowed in a land raider is practically Heresy,) and for balance reasons (Cramming anything you want into a Drop Pod is balance heresy).

Wow, I somehow missed that - I guess I carried over my assumptions from previous versions that "Dedicated" meant you had to assign the transport to a given squad and only that squad could use it. I can't find that rule in the BRB or codexes. Though I find it strange they still refer to them as "dedicated transports".

Pretty sure even in past editions transports worked like you're describing.

You usually had to start the same squad inside them that you bought them for, but once the battle started you were free to swap around transports and passengers however you liked.

Oh, wow - I didn’t realize that was even true back in 6th. Now it has me wondering what edition did limit riders as above (pretty sure it existed at one time, with a heated community discussion over it - but I don’t have my pre-6th book available to look).

Anyways, beyond that I agree it’s pretty stupid you can’t cross-transport marines - Primaris in rhinos and the like, oldMarines in Repulsor and Impulsor (esp. since the later sound like they’re open-topped).

Though by the lore it took a few centuries for razorbacks to be acceptable...

On the topic of old transports and Primaris, I'm pretty sure that GW has lost more sales than it's gained as a result.

All the new players who aren't buying Landraiders or Ravens as a result, and old players who aren't buying Repulsors for the same reason.

This is a decision based on the ultimate long term plan to seperate the ranges at some point in the future.