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What makes that worse is how they're bungling up other story threads as they go. The Phoenix Lord novels hint at the idea they're following some final plan of Asuryans or something but Ynnari hint they just wander doing what they want and joined up with the Ynnari. Which is so much worse.

The ynarri got knee capped as unfortunately they were hated by the fluff bunnies and the ITC crowd so GW appear to have just scrapped any plans they had for the future rather than do anything with them.

Ii feels like rather than having the balls to just remove them they are going to render them unplayable first and then quietly old yellow them at a later date due to a lack of players.

Honestly even for GW they have been a spectacular cluster feth since just after launch. It feels like there was a plan but whoever was behind it left and everyone else involved has been trying to kill it.

We're being encouraged to "start a Ynnari force today!" but there is absolutely no starting point whatsoever.

All I see is a pricey set of three HQ models and...Phoenix Rising? I do understand that the Ynnari includes forces from each eldar faction, but surely they could have done a basic codex as a starting point or included the Ynnari as part of the Harliquins?

Was looking through the book last night and was left dramatically underwhelmed. They could have used the opportunity to make stuff like Banshees functional, but chose...not to, and Ynnari are still an awkward force comprised of 3 characters hamfisted on top of all the existing Eldar stuff with a subfaction keyword swap. GW cant quite seem to appear what they want the power from death ability to do except make them better at directly killing in some way, and have been really awkward about how they handle that.

Yeah totally agree, new Ynnari have been a complete flop in terms of rules. They should really have the team writing eldar stuff speak to the SM people. The rule-writing is night and day.

 grouchoben wrote:
They should really have the team writing eldar stuff speak to the SM people.

They probably did.

And the SM writing team proceeded to scrawl some barely-legible Ynnari rules on a beermat, before going back to writing rules for armies they actually care about - i.e. Space Marines.

 grouchoben wrote:
Yeah totally agree, new Ynnari have been a complete flop in terms of rules. They should really have the team writing eldar stuff speak to the SM people. The rule-writing is night and day.

Didn't someone link an article from a guy who really did work for GW, and he said about having teams of 2-3 people, and often him doing stuff on his own, or being forced to ask for people outside of the company to test stuff?

 grouchoben wrote:
Yeah totally agree, new Ynnari have been a complete flop in terms of rules. They should really have the team writing eldar stuff speak to the SM people. The rule-writing is night and day.

Well, maybe a flop.
But it provides a way to play Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlies in a single army.
Frankly, I still think about the benefits of this.

You still have 500pts lock in to 3 very specifically-tooled characters. And you can already run 3 detachments, one of each.

The only true benefit it brings is cross-buffing, and the Ynnari buffs are much worse than those native to the three forces.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Yeah totally agree, new Ynnari have been a complete flop in terms of rules. They should really have the team writing eldar stuff speak to the SM people. The rule-writing is night and day.

Well, maybe a flop.
But it provides a way to play Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlies in a single army.
Frankly, I still think about the benefits of this.

Yeah see, the thing about this is...you can still do that, but better, with the regular army alliance rules?

I don't have to take 3 useless characters, neuter my Eldar and Harlequin psykers, and I get way, WAY, WAYYYYYYY better army traits...

the_scotsman wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
Yeah totally agree, new Ynnari have been a complete flop in terms of rules. They should really have the team writing eldar stuff speak to the SM people. The rule-writing is night and day.

Well, maybe a flop.
But it provides a way to play Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlies in a single army.
Frankly, I still think about the benefits of this.

Yeah see, the thing about this is...you can still do that, but better, with the regular army alliance rules?

I don't have to take 3 useless characters, neuter my Eldar and Harlequin psykers, and I get way, WAY, WAYYYYYYY better army traits...

Hey, dont call The Yncarne useless, at 280 pts shes super strong. if you play smart with her shes like a way better demon prince thats super hard to take down

oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

true but why would you, as beside maybe the Yncarne the normal HQ's synergy outweigh both Crazy Cat Lady and Captain Stabby (beside maybe giving DE a deny)

 Turnip Jedi wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

true but why would you, as beside maybe the Yncarne the normal HQ's synergy outweigh both Crazy Cat Lady and Captain Stabby (beside maybe giving DE a deny)

Yncarne is basically in all my lists because shes a good standalone beatstick.
Yvraine for the deny and mortal wounds with smite/gaze of ynnead
Visarch .... i guess the model makes a cool archon.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

Yep, that is probably the best part of the Ynnari rules.

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

Yup, but even Drazhar aint too shabby anymore .....building mine right now

 harlokin wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

Yup, but even Drazhar aint too shabby anymore .....building mine right now

Im taking him to an event this weekend to try him out, with +1 to wound and always at least 2D it really makes him viable hopefully.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

Yup, but even Drazhar aint too shabby anymore .....building mine right now

Im taking him to an event this weekend to try him out, with +1 to wound and always at least 2D it really makes him viable hopefully.

Good luck with that, would be good to hear how it goes.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

In fact, this is the way to go if you want Ynnari in your army.
Two Ynnari HQs are psykers and so add another dimension to a Drukhari army.
The Yncarne is an absolutely annoying model if played right.

 harlokin wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

Yup, but even Drazhar aint too shabby anymore .....building mine right now

Im taking him to an event this weekend to try him out, with +1 to wound and always at least 2D it really makes him viable hopefully.

Good luck with that, would be good to hear how it goes.

Well got low scores b.c 2 SLOW AF Ork players (local no time clocks, asking for time clocks next time).

But Drazhar did get into combat all 3 games, one game i played him without the WL trait on purpose. He is better, but I don't feel he is a auto take with the new rules. He did well, but you need body guards still, and you still need a vehicle to eat overwatch. SO you dont just take him and get him where he needs like some characters/units. He did well for the most part, but a 10man unit of Wyches did better every game, and that is less points even lol.

 Amishprn86 wrote:


Well got low scores b.c 2 SLOW AF Ork players (local no time clocks, asking for time clocks next time).

But Drazhar did get into combat all 3 games, one game i played him without the WL trait on purpose. He is better, but I don't feel he is a auto take with the new rules. He did well, but you need body guards still, and you still need a vehicle to eat overwatch. SO you dont just take him and get him where he needs like some characters/units. He did well for the most part, but a 10man unit of Wyches did better every game, and that is less points even lol.

yeah, i feel like even with the buff he got, he's still going to be underwhelming since hes *only* a melee beatstick. i'd rather get a cheap model (visarch) to fill my detachments. I'm pretty sure i never did double kabal battalion anyway so its not like i've had to use a "filler" HQ anyway.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

In fact, this is the way to go if you want Ynnari in your army.
Two Ynnari HQs are psykers and so add another dimension to a Drukhari army.
The Yncarne is an absolutely annoying model if played right.

The problem here is that a smart opponent knows how Innevitable Death works, so will be careful in lining up their kills so that the Yncarne is either forced to stay away or jump infront of any army that has yet to fire it's big guns. 280pts is still about 50 too many. And even with the re-rolls S6 is distinctly lackluster for what is supposed to be a beatstick.

Meanwhile, 120pts is till too much for Drazhar but for the first time this edition he made his points back yesterday in a game for me where he decimated a 10 man Intercessor squad for me. I feel that if you want Psychic support for your Drukhari, your taking Yvrain or a Craftworlds detachment, if you want a combat charcter your taking Drazhar or maybe the Visarch who isn't as good but 40pts cheaper. The Yncarne is for fun only but I expect it to die way too quickly.

 Imateria wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

In fact, this is the way to go if you want Ynnari in your army.
Two Ynnari HQs are psykers and so add another dimension to a Drukhari army.
The Yncarne is an absolutely annoying model if played right.

The problem here is that a smart opponent knows how Innevitable Death works, so will be careful in lining up their kills so that the Yncarne is either forced to stay away or jump infront of any army that has yet to fire it's big guns. 280pts is still about 50 too many. And even with the re-rolls S6 is distinctly lackluster for what is supposed to be a beatstick.

Meanwhile, 120pts is till too much for Drazhar but for the first time this edition he made his points back yesterday in a game for me where he decimated a 10 man Intercessor squad for me. I feel that if you want Psychic support for your Drukhari, your taking Yvrain or a Craftworlds detachment, if you want a combat charcter your taking Drazhar or maybe the Visarch who isn't as good but 40pts cheaper. The Yncarne is for fun only but I expect it to die way too quickly.

i think that 280pts if perfect for the Yncarne, played smart she'll usually make her pts back really quickly. She's a mid-late game threat, when stuff starts to die off. Play her with sacrificial units like MSU jetbikes. Just having the option to pop on an objective after the unit on it has been killed is excellent.

Sure a smart opponent can play around it, but so can he play against any other unit. The yncarne having that extra layer of decision making can tax your opponent's mental capacities and push them into making mistakes.

Is it top tier competitive? hell no, is it playable to a high level, yes it is. And most importantly, is it fun to play? 100000%

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
oh none of them are useless, its just stripping the rest of their detachment of decent rules in exchange for an, at best, wonky one is a bit much

although beast pack spam might be funny

except you don't have to lose your Obsessions/Masques/Craftworld. You can add one of the Triumvirate in any detachment without being forced into Ynnari

But yeah, Ynnari rules suck.

wait, is that actually true? You mean I can take the yncarne as a HQ in my Harlequin army?

yep, its awesome. It helps drukhari a lot since now if you want to run a double kabal battalion, youre not forced to take the overprized drakhar, you can just add the visarch for a mere 80pts instead. (or go big with the yncarne since its an awesome model)

In fact, this is the way to go if you want Ynnari in your army.
Two Ynnari HQs are psykers and so add another dimension to a Drukhari army.
The Yncarne is an absolutely annoying model if played right.

The problem here is that a smart opponent knows how Innevitable Death works, so will be careful in lining up their kills so that the Yncarne is either forced to stay away or jump infront of any army that has yet to fire it's big guns. 280pts is still about 50 too many. And even with the re-rolls S6 is distinctly lackluster for what is supposed to be a beatstick.

Meanwhile, 120pts is till too much for Drazhar but for the first time this edition he made his points back yesterday in a game for me where he decimated a 10 man Intercessor squad for me. I feel that if you want Psychic support for your Drukhari, your taking Yvrain or a Craftworlds detachment, if you want a combat charcter your taking Drazhar or maybe the Visarch who isn't as good but 40pts cheaper. The Yncarne is for fun only but I expect it to die way too quickly.

i think that 280pts if perfect for the Yncarne, played smart she'll usually make her pts back really quickly. She's a mid-late game threat, when stuff starts to die off. Play her with sacrificial units like MSU jetbikes. Just having the option to pop on an objective after the unit on it has been killed is excellent.

Sure a smart opponent can play around it, but so can he play against any other unit. The yncarne having that extra layer of decision making can tax your opponent's mental capacities and push them into making mistakes.

Is it top tier competitive? hell no, is it playable to a high level, yes it is. And most importantly, is it fun to play? 100000%

I know how to play the Yncarne, and having caught out my opponents a few times with it's tricks they've gotten wise to it and figured out ways around it. It's biggest problem is that whilst it can give a nasty surprise it's too vulnerable to having it's movement controlled by your opponent, and thats a real problem for me at it's points cost.

This is not helped by the fact they've changed the warlord traits for the characters now, +1A & S was extremely useful on the Yncarne before but they've now given that to Yvraine, whilst the Yncarne has been given the single most useless trait in a -1Ld bubble.

 Imateria wrote:

I know how to play the Yncarne, and having caught out my opponents a few times with it's tricks they've gotten wise to it and figured out ways around it. It's biggest problem is that whilst it can give a nasty surprise it's too vulnerable to having it's movement controlled by your opponent, and thats a real problem for me at it's points cost.

This is not helped by the fact they've changed the warlord traits for the characters now, +1A & S was extremely useful on the Yncarne before but they've now given that to Yvraine, whilst the Yncarne has been given the single most useless trait in a -1Ld bubble.

It still adds some decision making for your opponent, which can cause mental exhaustion and more mistakes, i agree its a marginal bonus but its still there. And a single mistake can mean they jsut lost an important part of their army.

To me the warlord trait swap didnt change a thing since i always keep my warlords far from combat (or only let them in combat when its safe for them to do so). Giving up slay the warlord isnt something i'm eager for. Especially not on a must-kill target like the yncarne.