Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As someone who has never played AOS but very much would like to jump in, what do you think of the battleforces just announced? Specifically the skaven and nighthaunt sets. Those are the two I'm most interested in.

 Haasbioroid wrote:
As someone who has never played AOS but very much would like to jump in, what do you think of the battleforces just announced? Specifically the skaven and nighthaunt sets. Those are the two I'm most interested in.

Difficult to say for sure until they announce a price, as they'll likely be more than last year.

As for the units, can't really comment on Skaven - but Nighthaunt:

It's not really optimal to have one unit each of Bladegheists, Grimghasts, and Dreadscythes. You really want to focus on one and get a decent blob of them, or use them to fulfil a Battalion. It's not that they're bad units, just that it makes for a pretty unfocused army.

The skaven box is a good box; all of those options are not only usable but quite good. The build an army out of that you would mostly be buying more of the infantry, which are pretty cheap.

That makes sense.

OH boy. OOH BOY.

As a Nighthaunt/Legion of Grief main, I have to disagree with you and say that the box is bad.

Grimghast Reapers, with the points increase, at unit of 20, cost the same as 20 Revenants. Revenants are pound-for-pound better. There are valid arguments to be made for Reapers (reroll hits vs targets of 5+, 2" reach, battleline), but I think in utility and threat, Revenants eke out (especially once you factor in that Legions can use Summons to trade). I think Reapers rise up a little in value for NH since they tick off a lot of boxes but once you factor in the ability to trade a unit and then resummon them in Legions, Revenants just win out. Units of 30 Revenants in NH might still be good, but they're nowhere near as oppressive as they used to be. I think the Revenant's ability to retreat and charge (with +1 Attack whenever they charge, so the damage actually swings in favor of Revenants on the attack) will literally win you games, where Reapers get stuck in and grind until you or your target(s) are dead.

Harridans aren't bad. Revenants are better. They both do the same thing, but Revenants (on the charge) buy you wounds for cheaper, plus that glorious retreat and charge! if you think about taking Harridans, take Revenants instead. If you're saying "oh, I could play Battleshock shenanigans and do the Shrieker battalion", you're playing for funsies, at which point you don't care about how "good" this box is anyways.

Hexwraiths are bad. Over-priced (even with the drop) and they hit like a sack of kittens. They're decent speed to zip around but your army can Drop Pod assault, and you have a Spectral Summons to teleport units around the board. Plus outside of Chainrasps and heroes, your army is M8". You don't need Hexwraiths. I will caveat this point that some people have found some success running the Death Riders battalion with 2x5 Hexwraiths and the Coach. I'll be honest, I think this is a meta thing, and it's falling fast, especially with the rise of shooting armies (SCE, Cities, some OB, and IronJaws) and the fact that armies are getting faster and faster (Hedonites, also IronJaws are surprisingly fast across the board) or can just gum up the board with units and force you into fights (Skaven).

I kind of wish the box had been the Craven King, 20 Chainrasps, 10 Revenants, Crawlock + Chainghasts, and the Spirit Torment repackaged from Soul Wars.

The SCE box is tempting - really no bad units in that box, nice theme to the box. And 1200 points in one box!

Be aware that as far as Skaven armies go that box is nothing more than the tip of the spear. Your army will need a LOT more bulk to it.

Again, it's hard to recommend any of those boxes without the prices but I haven't found too many of those holiday battleforces to be much good because they usually throw in models that aren't that great from each army book.

Do you want a horde or elite army in AoS? The start collecting and army bundles for elite armies like Stormcasts or Black Orcs tend to fare better

Well my 40k army is orks so I don't mind having a lot of toys. But now that you mention it, I do remember hearing the garage hammer episode on Skaven and how they talked about how much it costs to buy all the stuff you needed to make it work.

We've had the prices for awhile now...

$185 for Stormcast, Nighthaunt, and Gloomspite Gitz.
$200 for the Skaven.

Skaven armies are big and they're expensive too. The nice thing about elite armies is that you can convert models like Stormcast infantry into heroes if saving money is important.

I love the look of that undead army and I'd happily convert them into the better choices from their army book but I don't need any more armies at this point.

 John Prins wrote:
The SCE box is tempting - really no bad units in that box, nice theme to the box. And 1200 points in one box!

On the other hand, it has no battleline, because lord vacuumcleaner does not make sequitors into battleline. Why they didn't put Astreia in there is beyond me.

Cronch wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
The SCE box is tempting - really no bad units in that box, nice theme to the box. And 1200 points in one box!

On the other hand, it has no battleline, because lord vacuumcleaner does not make sequitors into battleline. Why they didn't put Astreia in there is beyond me.

Lord-Arcanum on Celestial Dracolines do exist, and they can be built out of the Dracoline kit.

And it leaves you with useless 2 or 5 dracolions in a unit that only comes in increments of 3. It's a theoretical option, just like building a lord celestant out of dracoth box is possible, but no one sane will do it. For existing players it's not that much of an issue, they probably have the gryph one from soul wars,but if you want to start SCE with this box, it's a bummer and does make it less enticing. Not to mention how bad exorcist is in general, but that's another issue. Of all four boxes, the nighthaunt one is probably the best deal, the rest is either uninspired or clearly a way to offload inventory that doesn't sell.

Skaven one sucks if you want Pestilens. Going straight Pestilens allows you to ally Nurgle. Gone if you include that clan rat unit or grey seer. And Epidemus is a 200pt huge boon for Pestilens. If you want mixed rats, it’s okay. But it skips the awesome skryre stuff AND forces you to go mixed rats, missing out on a huge allied force multiplier. And then it’s the most expensive one as well!! Yeah, no thanks.

Cronch wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
The SCE box is tempting - really no bad units in that box, nice theme to the box. And 1200 points in one box!

On the other hand, it has no battleline, because lord vacuumcleaner does not make sequitors into battleline. Why they didn't put Astreia in there is beyond me.

As pointed out, you can make a Lord Arcanum from the contents.

Also, there's a bunch of other Lord Arcanum options you could buy separately - not a real hardship.

Also, Astreia is Hammers of Sigmar only, like all named characters.

Also, I already own Astreia, so I'm glad she's NOT in the box

Also, there's a bunch of other Lord Arcanum options you could buy separately

Actually, there's not.
There's the one on gryph-charger only available in the Soul Wars (and yes, I know you can get him on ebay, we're talking official channels)
Then there's Astreia box
Then there's the expensive Tauraderp/Aventis one which is incidentally the only way to get a lord on foot
And you can make one if you throw out the other two dracolions in the box cause now they're under minimum unit size.

So of all the options, only Astreia is easily available, everything else is either bundled or really expensive.

Cronch wrote:

Also, there's a bunch of other Lord Arcanum options you could buy separately

Actually, there's not.
There's the one on gryph-charger only available in the Soul Wars (and yes, I know you can get him on ebay, we're talking official channels)
Then there's Astreia box
Then there's the expensive Tauraderp/Aventis one which is incidentally the only way to get a lord on foot
And you can make one if you throw out the other two dracolions in the box cause now they're under minimum unit size.

So of all the options, only Astreia is easily available, everything else is either bundled or really expensive.

I get your point, but it doesn't invalidate my comment, and when were we limited to official channels? I bought half of Soul Wars off eBay, it was neither difficult nor expensive, and it gives you the extra Sequitors you'd need to make 3 battleline.

Cronch wrote:

Also, there's a bunch of other Lord Arcanum options you could buy separately

Actually, there's not.
There's the one on gryph-charger only available in the Soul Wars (and yes, I know you can get him on ebay, we're talking official channels)
Then there's Astreia box
Then there's the expensive Tauraderp/Aventis one which is incidentally the only way to get a lord on foot
And you can make one if you throw out the other two dracolions in the box cause now they're under minimum unit size.

So of all the options, only Astreia is easily available, everything else is either bundled or really expensive.

So what if the Tauralon's the only way to get one on foot?
It's built using leftover components if you build Aventis.

And lol at "you throw out the other two Dracolines in the box"...
If only there were, coincidentally, some special options in the unit...

IF ONLY THERE WERE...

Waaaaaaaaaaaait a minute...

Wow, that's a wild reach. I mean, I know GW would love for everyone to waste money buying a whole 2nd box just to use "alternative optional" weapons when one of those weapons is obviously better and you wouldn't pick the other option anyway, but no real person would actually do that. As it is, the box is just poorly designed.

As for keeping Lord Spellyboy on foot behind a Tauralon paywall, and forcing you to build a named, Hammers of Sigmar ONLY character to even be able to build said on-foot lord...thanks for proving the point.

Cronch wrote:
Wow, that's a wild reach. I mean, I know GW would love for everyone to waste money buying a whole 2nd box just to use "alternative optional" weapons when one of those weapons is obviously better and you wouldn't pick the other option anyway, but no real person would actually do that. As it is, the box is just poorly designed.

And when that "obviously better weapon" gets nerfed...you'll be here whining.

And frankly, your stance is the exact kind of nonsense I've seen people throw out there with regards to the Vanguard stuff for Stormcast.
Do you people not realize that they can and likely will nerf overpicked options? Or that it's a ridiculously easy thing to convert up characters for Stormcast out of these boxes?

As for keeping Lord Spellyboy on foot behind a Tauralon paywall, and forcing you to build a named, Hammers of Sigmar ONLY character to even be able to build said on-foot lord...thanks for proving the point.

Do you even know what makes Firestrike different to a Lord Arcanum on the mount?
I built the damn thing on commission and I couldn't tell you without the instructions handy. Anyone who whines about "i cAn'T mAkE bOtH!!!1!" hasn't actually attempted it or is just spreading baseless nonsense.

Knight-Incantor from the Soul-Wars box is practically already a Lord-Arcanum on foot. The staff has the same profile but with one less attack, she still carries martyrdom soul-grenades. The model is awesome and can be gotten off of eBay by itself for cheap (half the price of the gryph charger one)

but that model already has a warscroll

Come off it.
The differences are minute at best. Things not even represented on the model such as spells and abilities. She doesn't have any extra or missing weapons and the differences are in points and how it affects your army. For all intents and purposes the Knight-Incantor is a WYSIWYG Lord-Arcanum on foot. These things are easily understood by just saying "This is a Lord-Arcanum" because nobody uses Knight-Incantors anyway.

 bocatt wrote:
Knight-Incantor from the Soul-Wars box is practically already a Lord-Arcanum on foot. The staff has the same profile but with one less attack, she still carries martyrdom soul-grenades. The model is awesome and can be gotten off of eBay by itself for cheap (half the price of the gryph charger one)

but that model already has a warscroll

Come off it.
The differences are minute at best. Things not even represented on the model such as spells and abilities. She doesn't have any extra or missing weapons and the differences are in points and how it affects your army. For all intents and purposes the Knight-Incantor is a WYSIWYG Lord-Arcanum on foot. These things are easily understood by just saying "This is a Lord-Arcanum" because nobody uses Knight-Incantors anyway.

By the same token, you can use Astreia Solbright as a Lord Arcanum on Celestial Dracoline rather than a named character. If she hadn't been an ETB sculpt they probably would have included optional parts to do that, just to distinguish her.

GW is not going to pay you for defending them, you all are aware, right?

Cronch wrote:
GW is not going to pay you for defending them, you all are aware, right?

Talking about how you can build little toy soldiers that look like other toy soldiers is not defending a company. Saying these battleforces are a good cohesive box set for new, returning or veteran players (that don't already have a weirdly specific collection with a plague monk and clan rat sized hole) would be defending the company.

I gave you a solution to your imagined problem of "uhuh I don't have a lord spellyboy on foot in a blister pack" and you respond with "well you're just a shill and gw sucks and you suck harder!" Is neither productive nor mature.

Moot argument, Astria is a Lord-Arcanum and makes Sequitors battleline.

Also, eBay exists, seriously.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Moot argument, Astria is a Lord-Arcanum and makes Sequitors battleline.

Yes, but remember that she's Hammers of Sigmar only. The only reason to not use her is if you want a different Chamber.

Also, eBay exists, seriously.

Indeed. The one from Soul Wars goes for $20-30 CAD on eBay.

And if any of those are too expensive for you, there's the "Getting Started" magazine for $8 with a Knight-Incantor variant that I've seen used by so many people as a Lord Arcanum.

Or head-swap Astria.

 bocatt wrote:

I gave you a solution to your imagined problem of "uhuh I don't have a lord spellyboy on foot in a blister pack" and you respond with "well you're just a shill and gw sucks and you suck harder!" Is neither productive nor mature.

My imagined problem was that the box gives you one hero, that doesn't make sequitors battleline and it'd be nice if there was a different hero included instead, as this one was clearly included just to shift inventory, not with any theme in mind.I personally have a lord arcanum, so it's not a problem for me, i just think the box could have been much better with one simple change. But because you can make a gakky lord arcanum from one of the six cavalry models, essentially cutting the value of them in half (even as "spares" like some insane person here claims), i guess it makes it fine.

Cronch wrote:

 bocatt wrote:

I gave you a solution to your imagined problem of "uhuh I don't have a lord spellyboy on foot in a blister pack" and you respond with "well you're just a shill and gw sucks and you suck harder!" Is neither productive nor mature.

My imagined problem was that the box gives you one hero, that doesn't make sequitors battleline and it'd be nice if there was a different hero included instead, as this one was clearly included just to shift inventory

Citation needed.

I'm sure it absolutely has nothing to do with us being further out from Soul Wars' initial release, which is usually when we see these kinds of "bundle boxes" of the big releases. If they wanted to "shift inventory", it would have been Vanguard again.

not with any theme in mind.

There's a theme here.
It's the Sacrosanct Chamber.

Not sure how someone could really miss that.

I personally have a lord arcanum, so it's not a problem for me, i just think the box could have been much better with one simple change. But because you can make a gakky lord arcanum from one of the six cavalry models, essentially cutting the value of them in half(even as "spares" like some insane person here claims), i guess it makes it fine.

Yup. That's exactly why.

It's not like you can't have understrength units(which a 5 model unit of Evocators on Dracolines would be) as a thing.
Or that the person who would be interested in this set might have as many as three Lord-Arcanum choices from having started with Soul Wars and moved on. Clearly, this box is the absolute WORST! HOW DARE THEY!