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Its a bit weird that BA have more flamer and melta options than the salamanders. Thats just a very weird and artifical way of making BA more unique for no good reason. I see nothing wrong with allowing everyone have meltaguns on their assault marines or having access to the Baal predator. Same with the dreadnoughts. I use an ironclad instead of a furioso already anyway since that box came out before the new Ba plastic dreads. Could just let stratagem and psychic powers be what differentiate BA dreads from the rest. Like let the "Death Vision Of Sanguinius" strat be used on a dread and you have a DC dread.

Could treat Sanguinary guard just as an honor guard and let every chapter have access to a honorguard with jump pack but BA have unique models for it. Their special rules and weapons suck anyway and best way to play them is just as pf terminators with JP. The sanguinary guard honor guard would still be the best JP honor guard due to chapter tactic and stratagems, might even have a strat called "Sanguinary Guard xxx" that does something unique.

Let DC and the characters be the only unique units and then its ready for a supplement.

I would love nothing more than for DA to become a supplement for C:SM.

At the very least just make a book like Angels of Death from 2nd edition. Loved that book.

The issue as I see it is not that these factions have unique units (this is handled just fine by the supplements) but that in cases like the Space Wolves, they have units that replace standard Marine units and have significantly different rules or structure. Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Wolf Scouts, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard are all replacements for their corresponding Codex units, and are significantly different enough that they require separate rules. As a supplement, Wolves would then have access to both their own and the standard versions of these units, which would not only make no sense (are their new recruits scouts or Blood Claws?), but would give a strange advantage where they then have access to a much wider variety of units than the other flavours of marines.

It makes no sense since SW have access to Primarus, as Primaris recruits should be Blood Claws as well leading to 2 different BC units

and because they are still Marines, they have access to the other Marines units anyway

But, just putting rules into the supplement that says which units are allowed to be taken is not a big problem anyway

But isn't the end goal to replace all the old marines with primaris? A codex that just turns grey hunters in to primaris intercessors, bloodclaws in to reavers would help to enhance that. Only different stuff could be SW specific weapon options, like all the axs they have. And the SW specific units other marines do not have so wolf raiders, the dog flyer, storm shield dreads etc.

Looking at Wolves - the most "unique" (or flanderised)

so those Units that need modification:

Tac Marines/Grey Hunters - you'd need to change this so that grey hunters could take a second special weapon and not a heavy, you'd also need to give them chainswords.
So a couple of options in the unit - what difference would it make if all Marines had this?
Devestator/Longfangs: some definate differances here, longfang pack leaders can take a plasma gun and the squad gets a free re-roll of 1s.
So a couple of options in the unit - what difference would it make if all Marines had this?
Scouts - moved to the elite slot. Lone hunter type unit - what difference would it make if all Marines had this?
Dreadnought - fair number of changes and some options made unavaliable, such as no ironclad dreads.
The few actual options - what difference would it make if all Marines had this?
Terminators - no assault squads, the termy squad having more weapon options.
what difference would it make ifWolves had this option and all Marines had this?
Bikes - you'd need to adjust the BS
or just a option
assault marines - likewise need to adjust the BS
or just an option
chaplains would needed to be tweeked to wolf preists
or just a name option - maybe a coupel of unti options

So no need for anything more than a few minor options included?

Its insulting and stupid that somehow 999 chpaters don't use chainswords, etc....

Oh and Briandavion - before you start - remember I collect Wolves as well.

 Mr Morden wrote:
So no need for anything more than a few minor options included?

If GW decided they really did want to merge them there is always the black templar option - aka throw out all of the unique variations in the unit structure and call it a job well done.

Ultimately it's not going to be the unique rules staying GWs hand.

A.T. wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
So no need for anything more than a few minor options included?

If GW decided they really did want to merge them there is always the black templar option - aka throw out all of the unique variations in the unit structure and call it a job well done.

Ultimately it's not going to be the unique rules staying GWs hand.

That was not the OP question.

Also Black Templars still have more options, units and characters than most supplements Yes?

Also collect Templars.

The train left the station long ago, despite what some overly vocal minority might want, they are separate factions.

I could hear the outrage now, you release Supplement Dark Angels to be used in conjunction with Codex Space Marines (even though they are not listed in there whatsoever). It has a new super doctrine, warlord traits, relics, strategems, characters.....oh, and then it also has options for Black Knights, a Darkshroud, a Land speeder vengeance, a nephilim, a dark talon, a Talonmaster, an Interrogator Chaplain, an Apothecary in Terminator armour, a champion in terminator armour, an apothecary on bike, a champion on bike, an ancient on bike, a mixed terminator squad, and Deathwing Knights. Yet they still get access to everything else that other marines get (even though in the lore they don't use them, but hey let's just ignore that convenient fact). As long as there is a plastic kit for a unit entry, it will get a unit entry and Dark Angels have all of the above.

GW has made these factions a splinter of the original space marines and they have diverged to the point of no return because of access to plastic kits. I prefer this approach, and always have. Let the certain people posting on this thread eat cake.

You have a really funny way of spelling GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That doesn't make GW correct. GW, in fact, says many things that end up being incorrect.

What's your point at that point? Just listen and be a good customer?

They write the rules and the fluff. They literally can't be incorrect on what counts as what.
And yes, if you disagree you can either just go with it anyway, house rule everything, or play a different game.

 bullyboy wrote:
The train left the station long ago, despite what some overly vocal minority might want, they are separate factions.

I could hear the outrage now, you release Supplement Dark Angels to be used in conjunction with Codex Space Marines (even though they are not listed in there whatsoever). It has a new super doctrine, warlord traits, relics, strategems, characters.....oh, and then it also has options for Black Knights, a Darkshroud, a Land speeder vengeance, a nephilim, a dark talon, a Talonmaster, an Interrogator Chaplain, an Apothecary in Terminator armour, a champion in terminator armour, an apothecary on bike, a champion on bike, an ancient on bike, a mixed terminator squad, and Deathwing Knights. Yet they still get access to everything else that other marines get (even though in the lore they don't use them, but hey let's just ignore that convenient fact). As long as there is a plastic kit for a unit entry, it will get a unit entry and Dark Angels have all of the above.

GW has made these factions a splinter of the original space marines and they have diverged to the point of no return because of access to plastic kits. I prefer this approach, and always have. Let the certain people posting on this thread eat cake.

sigh and thats why non marine players don;t get nice things.....(speaking as non exclusive Marine player)

Especially since many of those units only pretend to be unique

 Mr Morden wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
The train left the station long ago, despite what some overly vocal minority might want, they are separate factions.

I could hear the outrage now, you release Supplement Dark Angels to be used in conjunction with Codex Space Marines (even though they are not listed in there whatsoever). It has a new super doctrine, warlord traits, relics, strategems, characters.....oh, and then it also has options for Black Knights, a Darkshroud, a Land speeder vengeance, a nephilim, a dark talon, a Talonmaster, an Interrogator Chaplain, an Apothecary in Terminator armour, a champion in terminator armour, an apothecary on bike, a champion on bike, an ancient on bike, a mixed terminator squad, and Deathwing Knights. Yet they still get access to everything else that other marines get (even though in the lore they don't use them, but hey let's just ignore that convenient fact). As long as there is a plastic kit for a unit entry, it will get a unit entry and Dark Angels have all of the above.

GW has made these factions a splinter of the original space marines and they have diverged to the point of no return because of access to plastic kits. I prefer this approach, and always have. Let the certain people posting on this thread eat cake.

sigh and thats why non marine players don;t get nice things.....(speaking as non exclusive Marine player)

Especially since many of those units only pretend to be unique

Hey, I didn't make the rules or the plastic kits. I just buy what I like.

 Mmmpi wrote:

Spoiler:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Mmmpi wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Except they ARE Space Marines. So you're literally wrong.

They are Blood Angel Space Marines (ect), so I'm literally right.


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PenitentJake wrote:
My theory is that there won't be a ninth edition at all, and all factions will eventually get the dex + supplements treatment.

What some people call bloat, I call GW's persistent edition strategy. And you know what? I'd rather hope that a real alien auxilia for Tau; that Dark Eldar will get their characters back; that ALL aspects will plastic models, Phoenix Lords- all of that, rather than a reset button that pushes back the clock on development by years, while they rerelease everything we've already seen.

I rant about this often [sorry], and someone in another thread gracious pointed out that there is precedent for the soft reboot, where rules changes didn't invalidate dexes in order to allow a soft reboot. Maybe that wouldn't interfere quite as much with the actual development cycle, but it still interferes more than say, giving it 5-10 years worth of annual campaign content, cross-platform integration between BSF/ Kill Team/ Apocalypse and 40k under the current edition (though a decade of CA could transform the game radically, doing it so gradually that we hardly notice).

I don't play marines at all, but if I did, someone suggesting that I need to lose unique units to make the game smoother for everyone else, I'd be a bit offended. Of course, if I were a tournament player, I would be encouraged to only value the best four strategems, or the best unit of every type and automatically regard all the others as trash, so I wouldn't even miss the content. But I am super story based guy, so I LOVE many of the units that Dakka hates. I've never met another person who actually LIKES Drukari Beast masters and their packs and wants to see them redone and improved. As a story based guy, I can allow my beast master to control an Ambull, and I really don't care whether it's a "good" unit, though of course I would prefer that. Ditto for the court of the archon.

And I think that is the potential that dex + supplement brings. I WANT the hive fleets to be developed enough that they get enough variety to justify a dex + supplement, and I'll actually start playing Tau if the do Alien Auxiliary right, or even just give the Kroot Capacity to stand alone.

So I don't want BA, DA, and SW to be made into supplements, because I think that it would inevitably result in a loss of options for those players. It certainly COULD be done, but something would be lost.

This is the crux of the argument. So many of them insist that it has to be their way, that no one wants what you just described, when in general, supplements, expanded armies, and stand alone codexes are popular.

LOL no they're just red Space Marines. .

You have a really funny way of spelling GW.


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
That doesn't make GW correct. GW, in fact, says many things that end up being incorrect.

What's your point at that point? Just listen and be a good customer?

They write the rules and the fluff. They literally can't be incorrect on what counts as what.
And yes, if you disagree you can either just go with it anyway, house rule everything, or play a different game.

Well they can. Remember how Cultists used to get Legion rules even though they weren't really Chaos Marines and then benefitted from VotLW?

They can get stuff wrong in their own game too! Look at that!


Removed - BrookM

about the same isn't the same though. A DW veteran with a stormbolters is almost the same as a GK strike with a stormbolter. But they are both very different from each other, based on unit and gear options alone. And neither of the two look like anything in the space marine codex.

 Mr Morden wrote:
That was not the OP question.
Also Black Templars still have more options, units and characters than most supplements Yes?
Also collect Templars.

The question was why doesn't GW roll up the BA/DA/etc into add-ons to the marine book, which is exactly what they did with the templars back in 6th - albeit in-book rather than as a supplement.

Their options and units amount solely to their unique kits, and beyond that they are ultramarines. After the releases in 5th and 6th for the other factions their larger range made a similar merger less practical.

Karol wrote:
about the same isn't the same though. A DW veteran with a stormbolters is almost the same as a GK strike with a stormbolter. But they are both very different from each other, based on unit and gear options alone. And neither of the two look like anything in the space marine codex.

Deathwatch are the sternguard unit spun off into a codex.

Karol wrote:
about the same isn't the same though. A DW veteran with a stormbolters is almost the same as a GK strike with a stormbolter. But they are both very different from each other, based on unit and gear options alone. And neither of the two look like anything in the space marine codex.

That's comparing a troop choice to an elite choice, for one.

Two, they CLEARLY have different functions for being in different armies. You can't say the same for most of the "unqiue" stuff the Angels have.

Not really into the other armies so I'm not sure how well DA/SW/DW/GK could be integrated with the big marine book as supplements. BA can and propably should so everyone has access to the same flamer and melta options and librarian dreads and baal predators(might need a name change to something more Flamy and generic).

The mixed DA terminators should just be how standard terminators are. Having so many datasheets for terminators is just weird. All marines having the same and then just give DA a special Stratagem or psychic power/trait/relic that makes their terminators better and "Deathwing". Dont really know much about their other stuff but propably not much extra work to make them fit in with the rest.

Deathwatch should work easily to make to a supplement I guess. They dont really have much special other than in how you put them together. Just have a small supplement that describes how you combine their squads. Their only unique options are like a melee weapon, a dreadnought weapon and the blackshield right? That isnt much at all.

SW can propably stay in their own codex or at least make the streamlining in 2 steps and not all at once. They are very much the same but still not. Like they have the same units but with slightly different look, name and stats and taking up a different slot. Not a SW expert so dont listen to me too much but I feel that its more the fluff and their unique models that make them really unique and not their actual stats. Could just make an entry somewhere and say that their Assault Marines are just Blood Claws with JP etc. And no real reason for their frost weapons to have another profile than the normal weapons, They could easily be made into a supplement if you really wanted but I feel they would lose much more than BA, DA and DW in doing so.

GK shouldnt be made into a supplement. On the other hand there could propably be more effort in to putting Custodes, Grey Knights, different Sisters and Inquisition more closely together. Like making 2 books of them all together. So armies are more updated and balanced together so we dont have it like now where red, bluegray and green space marines are much worse than the other just because they are in a different book for "reasons".

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because fluffbunnies will hiss at the very thought of consolidation and GW knows it can milk them for money.

Slayer-Fan123, whilst I would actually also like to see BA/DA/SW given supplement treatment, you also know that I'm probably the fluffiest bunny here.

It's not a "fluffbunny" thing, and relying on that as some kind of crutch weakens the argument (which I, a fluffbunny, agree with).

Going to ask this once nicely: Stick to the topic, do not insult one another, or more warnings will be handed out.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because fluffbunnies will hiss at the very thought of consolidation and GW knows it can milk them for money.

Slayer-Fan123, whilst I would actually also like to see BA/DA/SW given supplement treatment, you also know that I'm probably the fluffiest bunny here.

It's not a "fluffbunny" thing, and relying on that as some kind of crutch weakens the argument (which I, a fluffbunny, agree with).

They're the ones buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice though, and end up justifying it through bizarre mental gymnastics. It's also why I refuse to ever buy a CSM codex ever again now until they're made to represent Legions proper instead of those garbage we have now, and why I've been encouraging everyone I know to refuse to give money for the garbage Chaos Knights release.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because fluffbunnies will hiss at the very thought of consolidation and GW knows it can milk them for money.

Slayer-Fan123, whilst I would actually also like to see BA/DA/SW given supplement treatment, you also know that I'm probably the fluffiest bunny here.

It's not a "fluffbunny" thing, and relying on that as some kind of crutch weakens the argument (which I, a fluffbunny, agree with).

They're the ones buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice though, and end up justifying it through bizarre mental gymnastics. It's also why I refuse to ever buy a CSM codex ever again now until they're made to represent Legions proper instead of those garbage we have now, and why I've been encouraging everyone I know to refuse to give money for the garbage Chaos Knights release.

It's not always the narrative players (less pejorative term for "fluffbunny"). A narrative player can play UltraMarines reasonably without picking up the supplement. A competitive player cannot. Add to it that competitive players are more fixated on knowing everyone else's rules, and "buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice" is certainly not just a "narrative player" problem.

I think that fluff is quite important to a lot of 40K players. The level of that importance might vary, but I doubt that many are exclusively fluff-driven or game/power-driven. I find the fluff very important, but I also go to a tournament every quarter or so. I try to win my games, but I also build a list that speaks to me. The thought of abandoning the Chapter that I have played since 1996 to try to win more games is quite foreign to me. As a Dark Angel its been tough sledding as of late, but the wheel goes round. The worm will turn.

The distinct Chapters are clearly important to enough gamers to warrant them continued existence. Ultimately, the market will decide (well - GW makes the call but the market's invisible hand is the driving force). I am not sure why some folks are upset about this. You don't have to buy the Dark Angels or Blood Angels book if you don't want to. Their rules, stratagems and unique datasheets do not clutter up the Codex for your force/chapter. Similarly, I just have to buy the Dark Angels Codex. I'm happy about that! While I suppose that there is design/sales space opportunity cost, it doesn't take many SKUs to have the kits to make the Dark Angels unique units and look. Similarly the fluff/background for the Dark Angels and other unique chapters is well-established over the previous decades so its not like its a massive undertaking preventing some new Xenos race being created (at tremendous risk) to the company.

Some have argued previously that the distinct Chapters are somehow making the Space Marines weaker. The new Iron Hands supplement seems to argue against that. For Space Marine players who care primarily about tabletop victory at competitions and have no "fluff/Chapter loyalty" then I suggest that the Iron Hands are their choice right now. So it would seem that there is room in the Space Marines' tent for power-gamers, fluff-bunnies and all those in between.

Cheers,

T2B

Beyond that, if a player buys a GK codex, and loves the GK codex, and loves it seperate from their SM codex, is that "bizarre mental gymnastics"?

Now, a seperate UM book for my Marines (Not sure if I'll pick it up. Doubt I'd pick up an Uthwe book even) is more stratiation than I'm up for. But that's me.

Everyone has different levels of ideal stratiation. Quality and relevance aren't intrinsic levels of "good" or "bad". Everyone has different preferences, so will prefer different situations. I'm sure we can all agree that books for each generation of each Company of each Chapter would be too far. And a single, short book that encompases every army in the game is not far enough. But, between that, it's rational to disagree.

Ultimately, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, etc.. having their own Codex are partially a historic thing from GW spinning those books off to their own releases in previous (very long ago) editions. It was, at the end of the day, the same basic business idea as today's supplements. Just the late 80s / early 90s, 2nd Ed. version of it.

Similarly, Death Guard and Thousand Sons got their own Codex more recently, though before the current supplement variant. Could they have been CSM supplement if their release had come 2-3 years earlier or later? Probably.

Also, things like Black Templar or Khorne Daemonkin had their own books but were (temporarily?) folded back into a larger book, presumably due to lack of sales/unique miniatures. Skitarii and Cult Mechanicus used to be their own thing but were merged. Etc..

In the end, whether GW will spin out a popular sub-faction as it's own Codex or Mini-Codex as they did with Death Guard or Harlequins, or whether they make it a just a "supplement" is mostly a fashion thing that will come and go with the years.

Not to mention sub-faction army rules (or things like formations) being spun off into campaign books, White Dwarf (initial format for Crimson Fists, for example), etc.. any and all of which could become en vogue again in a year or three.

The one thing you probably shouldn't hold your breath for is GW doing this a) on the basis of some background justification/logic or b) being consistent with it over a multi-year period.



A not insignificant motivation for the current Marine supplements is likely also the buckets of Marine miniatures GW is releasing with them. They had releases in all those Impulsors and Invictors and Infiltrators, etc.. to cover several weeks of releases, thus they could bundle a bunch of supplement books with them. If there isn't such a wealth of Marine miniatures (unlikely, I know, lol), in 9th Ed. there probably won't be supplements, because there aren't enough miniatures to go with it.

Likewise, if GW were to, say, do a huge quantity of Tau miniatures, you might see a couple of Tau supplements (or campaign books or fully fledged spin-off-codexes or whatever) on Farsight or whatever to go with them, padding the release window. If there isn't miniatures to fill release slots of several weeks as there was with for faction X, they also wont get supplements (or supplement-equivalents).

GW is too big compared to its competitors while also bad at balancing the game so I wouldnt say the invisible hand of the market can do much here. What if GW releases a new BA book with new unique units that are more powerful than what IH have. We will se lots of people who would like the marines consolidated buy the book and units for its sheer powerlevel. GW controls the market and not the consumers. That is the problem. If the only difference were fluff then it could perhaps show up.

If everything were balanced then people would only go after what they liked. I think there are quite a lot of people who would want to play certain weak armies that are really bad in the rules and thus just continue with their main faction because they dont want to waste money and time on Grey knights as they are now.

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because fluffbunnies will hiss at the very thought of consolidation and GW knows it can milk them for money.

Slayer-Fan123, whilst I would actually also like to see BA/DA/SW given supplement treatment, you also know that I'm probably the fluffiest bunny here.

It's not a "fluffbunny" thing, and relying on that as some kind of crutch weakens the argument (which I, a fluffbunny, agree with).

They're the ones buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice though, and end up justifying it through bizarre mental gymnastics. It's also why I refuse to ever buy a CSM codex ever again now until they're made to represent Legions proper instead of those garbage we have now, and why I've been encouraging everyone I know to refuse to give money for the garbage Chaos Knights release.

It's not always the narrative players (less pejorative term for "fluffbunny"). A narrative player can play UltraMarines reasonably without picking up the supplement. A competitive player cannot. Add to it that competitive players are more fixated on knowing everyone else's rules, and "buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice" is certainly not just a "narrative player" problem.

No, because the fluffbunny wants the Characters and everything too. I refuse to buy the Supplements too if you catch my drift.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
Beyond that, if a player buys a GK codex, and loves the GK codex, and loves it seperate from their SM codex, is that "bizarre mental gymnastics"?

Yeah it is. Did you read that pile of garabge, like, at all?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because fluffbunnies will hiss at the very thought of consolidation and GW knows it can milk them for money.

Slayer-Fan123, whilst I would actually also like to see BA/DA/SW given supplement treatment, you also know that I'm probably the fluffiest bunny here.

It's not a "fluffbunny" thing, and relying on that as some kind of crutch weakens the argument (which I, a fluffbunny, agree with).

They're the ones buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice though, and end up justifying it through bizarre mental gymnastics. It's also why I refuse to ever buy a CSM codex ever again now until they're made to represent Legions proper instead of those garbage we have now, and why I've been encouraging everyone I know to refuse to give money for the garbage Chaos Knights release.

No, the people who want those codexes are the ones buying them. Not some sort of bizarre "you like the lore of the game, hah!" argument that you seem to be pedalling.

In case you conveniently forgot, you know I'm what you'd call a "fluffbunny" - power level and all. I think that DA/BA/SW should be folded in. Therefore, something about your usage of "fluffbunny" is very much misguided, and not appropriate for this discussion.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
It's not always the narrative players (less pejorative term for "fluffbunny"). A narrative player can play UltraMarines reasonably without picking up the supplement. A competitive player cannot. Add to it that competitive players are more fixated on knowing everyone else's rules, and "buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice" is certainly not just a "narrative player" problem.

No, because the fluffbunny wants the Characters and everything too. I refuse to buy the Supplements too if you catch my drift.

That sounds like a lot of strawmanning. If you can't make your argument without relying on this mythical "fluffbunny" (of which I am one, and do not fit your extremely narrow viewpoint), it's not exactly a solid one.

Again, I support the idea of consolidating books. But your argument for it is doing no favours.

At this point, I think that GW'd best move would be to strip down every Faction to just a double handful or so of units, a few Stratagems, and maybe 1 or 2 Wargear choices, and focus on making THOSE balanced and fun, with well-written rules to back up their wargame. Then they could release more units, Stratagems, and Wargear at a slow trickle, after making sure they aren't gonna break the game or invalidate other choices in the Faction.

Now this is what I think they SHOULD do. Bring the game back to its roots as a wargame, and make it fun to play again. But, as mentioned pretty much everywhere, GW isn't in the wargame business. It's in the "sell you expensive models and rules" business. So, rather than risk their revenue by stripping things down and slowly building back up, they're just gonna keep trying to fix things and inevitably breaking others.

It's basically like buying a boat without checking it's condition, going out for a ride, and plugging the leaks with your fingers.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Because fluffbunnies will hiss at the very thought of consolidation and GW knows it can milk them for money.

Slayer-Fan123, whilst I would actually also like to see BA/DA/SW given supplement treatment, you also know that I'm probably the fluffiest bunny here.

It's not a "fluffbunny" thing, and relying on that as some kind of crutch weakens the argument (which I, a fluffbunny, agree with).

They're the ones buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice though, and end up justifying it through bizarre mental gymnastics. It's also why I refuse to ever buy a CSM codex ever again now until they're made to represent Legions proper instead of those garbage we have now, and why I've been encouraging everyone I know to refuse to give money for the garbage Chaos Knights release.

It's not always the narrative players (less pejorative term for "fluffbunny"). A narrative player can play UltraMarines reasonably without picking up the supplement. A competitive player cannot. Add to it that competitive players are more fixated on knowing everyone else's rules, and "buying those codices instead of saying "no" go GW's crummy practice" is certainly not just a "narrative player" problem.

No, because the fluffbunny wants the Characters and everything too. I refuse to buy the Supplements too if you catch my drift.

What about fluffbunnies possibly wanting "Characters and everything too" somehow means there are no non-fluffbunnies that would ever buy the books?

At least a nonsequitor isn't a strawman, for once.


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Bharring wrote:
Beyond that, if a player buys a GK codex, and loves the GK codex, and loves it seperate from their SM codex, is that "bizarre mental gymnastics"?

Yeah it is. Did you read that pile of garabge, like, at all?

I wouldn't mind having a SW supplement codex, Only change I would want are different Combat Doctrines and more werewolves!