Relentless for Terminators

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**_SeeD_**

I should have mentioned that Terminators had Relentless in 7th edition. Why didn't that carry over?

**Martel732**

Because relentless isn't very common in 8th at all.

**Wyldhunt**

Also, moving and shooting a heavy weapon in 7th meant you were only hitting on 6's. I wouldn't be surprised if the designers felt like hitting on 6+ was too punishing to be tolerated but hitting on 4+ rather than 3+ felt more like a flavorful minor penalty.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Vilehydra wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
_SeeD_ wrote:
Terminators should not be hit with a -1 to hit penalty when moving and firing Heavy Weapons. #changemymind.

You are wrong, they should not suffer a -1 for Heavy Weapons or cumbersome CC weapons. Also a 2+ BS would be nice (integrated Targeters a la 2nd Edition.) Throw in a 2+ WS if you want, but ignoring the penalties is enough for me there.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gary_1986 wrote:
Big fan of Terminators but the eighth edition has rendered them kinda pointless.

They can actually get some crazy CC damage output.

I ran a list of 20 Terminators and got a whole lot of mileage out of them but the BIGGEST issue was absolutely needing to spend a CP on fury of the first. If you ran out of CP (which one can easily do with 800+ points in terminators) then the reliable damage output just took a nosedive. It was a surprisingly massive issue.

Which is why part of the problem is requiring a Strat for a stat they should already have, AKA WS/BS2+.

**_SeeD_**

Now that vehicles don't suffer a penalty this is more relevant than ever.

**BaconCatBug**

With hit rolls being limited to a +/- 1 modifier, it's actually less relevant, imho.

**alextroy**

Given that GW appears to be giving different points values for Heavy weapons on Infantry and other units, this is actually now rather irrelevant.

**skchsan**

Giving relentless to terminators is stepping on vehicle AND infantry's toes. It has all the benefits of being infantry ('have a cake') as well as all the benefits of vehicle ('eat a cake').

If anything, give them relentless advance just like gravis, add a clause 'can fire heavy weapons after advancing with -1 to hit' and call it a day.

**Togusa**

Gary_1986 wrote:
Terminators are the elite warriors of the Space Marine Chapters, one doesn't just 'get' Terminator armour. It is earned through accomplishments in battle, so Terminator warriors are experienced veterans and their armour is prized amongst Chapters for its strength/resilience and how rare it has became.

There is no chance that a Terminator should suffer a debuff for moving and firing, I am surprised that Terminators don't have this as standard, amongst other things like more attacks etc. Big fan of Terminators but the eighth edition has rendered them kinda pointless.

I'd add that the -1 to move and fire and the -1 for power fist just doesn't make sense in a world were instant death doesn't exist anymore. This can be applied to crushing claws on most of the tyrannicide monsters too.

**Vilehydra**

Leave the -1 for heavy weapons, but what (ALL) terminators should do is ignore the -2 penalty for dense terrain. That would make them excellent shock troops and help fulfill their role. Its a bit of unexplored design space that is made available with the new terrain rules - or maybe they count all terrain as breachable.

**_SeeD_**

Judging by the new leaked rules for 9th edition Terminators, it seems they might be ignoring both melee penalties and ranged penalties for moving. Could be wrong. We'll see.

**Niiru**

Vilehydra wrote:
Leave the -1 for heavy weapons, but what (ALL) terminators should do is ignore the -2 penalty for dense terrain. That would make them excellent shock troops and help fulfill their role. Its a bit of unexplored design space that is made available with the new terrain rules - or maybe they count all terrain as breachable.

So... after Space Marines have already taken almost all of the unique weaponry and abilities from the Eldar... you want to turn terminators into Harlequins?

Yeh. No.