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chaos0xomega wrote:
Its logical extrapolation. If The Old World is being marketed as a historical "background" product line in the same vein as the Horus Heresy is for 40k, its logical to assume that The Old World will see similar levels of support.

I'd hesitate to draw that parallel, if only because HH was developed, gained popularity and peaked mostly during Kirby era. I'd imagine current GW would have treated the property differently, had they the chance to direct it from the very start.

Having said that, I still think it's going to be Empire vs Empire for the starter

I think it's healthiest to assume a split human starter at initial release. A follow up could be Orcs and Bretonnia because the named king was partly responsible for smashing a ton of orcs and creating the more modern Bretonnia.

You could easily have a beastmen/wood elves expansion later as well.

But I do think it's best to temper what you expect to get out of this and to view it like a normal specialist release with a bit more depth. Now look at the first few months of Bloodbowl, Necromunda, and AT. Assume they'll go slightly larger than those releases but not by much. The most initial bang for buck is two human factions unless this is a warband style game. But that's also good because solid baseline humans can be used as templates for Bretonnia, Kislev, Vampire Counts, and Chaos because it's some CAD changes to your base models and you're off to the races.

To my knowledge at least two of the toy lines you just mentioned are actually completely new sets of molds designed to look like the originals but with slight modifications to the design. The Masters of the Universe Origins line of action figures (which I assume you are referring to) feature 16 points of articulation.... the originals from the 80s only had 6.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/mattel-is-bringing-back-the-original-vintage-he-man-fig-1836426928

Likewise the Transformers Vintage Reissues aren't actual reissues of the original. They are mostly based on modified variants of the early 2000s era Transformers Collection toys, but modified to meet modern toy safety standards and to try to more exactly duplicate the look of the originals. Transformers do one of these reissues every 10 years or so with a new set of redesigned/re-engineered toys designed to look like the originals. The last time Transformers definitively reissued the toys straight from the original molds was the Classics release in 1991 for the Asia/Pacific market - but even then they had re-engineered the tooling prior to the release in order to make some modifications to the designs (mainly in order to omit the rubsigns and to block out the original date and location of manufacture). There was another reissue from the original molds in the mid 2000s as part of the Takara Collectors Edition but they were mixed with non-original redecoes and some of the supposedly original reissues appear to be modified in various minor ways. Likewise, the late 2000s Gen One Commemmorative Series also had similar shenanigans going on. Anyway, point is, unless you're referring to another reissue series I'm unaware of, the Transformers line also isn't reissues from the original molds.

A quick google search suggests that the GI Joe Retro Collection figures fall in the same category as the above - new toys from new molds designed to look like the old ones:

https://bleedingcool.com/collectibles/gi-joe-hasbro-retro-collection/

"These 3.75-inch figure stays true to that iconic first line of figures but features some new design and detail. Three solo figures were announced and the return of a classic GI Joe vehicle. Destro, Roadblock, and Scarlett return once again all with updated mold and corresponding accessories."

Generally speaking, toy reissues are rarely "actual" reissues, whereas model kit reissues really depend on the kit and the manufacturer. Aurora kit reissues, for example, are always (or almost always, there might be an exception I don't know of) from the original molds. Revell/Monogram reissues can be hit or miss, since they had molds for the same kits in different places for different markets that sometimes had differences and were sometimes identical. The reissue you're buying in these cases may be from *an* original mold but not necessarily *the* original mold, nor even the same mold that produced the kit that you bought as a kid. Revell (IIRC) also had a tendency to recut their molds for reissue as new product as well - Revells Flipper the Dolphin kit was recut into Ensign Darwin the Dolphin from Seaquest, for example, rather than making an entirely new set of molds for it.

So, I think you kinda torpedoed your own argument there, at least to some extent. The AMT kit is, in fact, the same set of molds from the 70s, so you got that going for ya, but a number of the other AMT reissues are not.

 Hulksmash wrote:
I think it's healthiest to assume a split human starter at initial release.

I'm _really_ dubious about that, unless you mean split between Empire and Brets or Empire and Kislev.

It would limit the scope of sales (people with no interest in a human faction don't like getting told to feth off out of the gate) and if its Empire Civil War time its way too easy to buy multiple starters and build up a force. Which weakens sales of additional kits in favor of the less profitable starter, which is something GW doesn't really want. They want people do go buy $60 kits on top of the starter, not just buy a couple starters thinking they can get by without the additional investment.

Voss wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I think it's healthiest to assume a split human starter at initial release.

I'm _really_ dubious about that, unless you mean split between Empire and Brets or Empire and Kislev.

It would limit the scope of sales (people with no interest in a human faction don't like getting told to feth off out of the gate) and if its Empire Civil War time its way too easy to buy multiple starters and build up a force. Which weakens sales of additional kits in favor of the less profitable starter, which is something GW doesn't really want. They want people do go buy $60 kits on top of the starter, not just buy a couple starters thinking they can get by without the additional investment.

No, I fully expect Empire A vs. Empire B. There will be some item that separates them that can be used to make them "A vs. B". I expect this will be a similar box to AT and limited on initial release. They'll then release the actual sets along with some additional items for these initial factions. Then in the next release slot (which might not be long) you might see Kislev as they try to muscle in on certain Empire territories. Same for Bretonnia potentially. My expectation is 4 factions within the year of release if this is a 28mm game with maybe one of those not being humans (i.e. wood elves/beastmen/orcs).

Ah. I don't expect that at all.
AT is weird, because the Titans are the thing and the only thing, but they can be customized. It also has precedent in the old Epic games. So while some grumbling about the lack of Gargants and eldar titans happens, no one is terribly surprised by the lack of expansion.

Old World has... expectations. Unlike the HH, there just isn't enough nostalgia for Empire: the Civil War to focus a game around it. People want their other factions back at least as much (probably more) than they want the HRE with wizards.

Plus, further, I've no idea why they'd waste time on preview articles for Kislev and Brets if the focus is on a fairly random Empire civil war.

The kind of box you're suggesting would cause much table flipping and kill a lot of interest in the game right at the start.

Its also pretty contrary to what GW wants out of their properties. Without a major, major shift in design, its very hard to make the Empire look like a uniquely GW Warhammer IP. They're really going to want something distinctively Warhammer in the Old World starter box (and Golden Compass bears and Frozen ice witches in Kislev doesn't do that either). A pure or even strong human focus is just doesn't fit with GW's tendency to strengthen their IP, and the Old World definitely lacks a Space Marine equivalent to push sales by focusing on a primary faction- and the simply can't do it by focusing on (not) the Holy Roman Empire

 Hulksmash wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I think it's healthiest to assume a split human starter at initial release.

I'm _really_ dubious about that, unless you mean split between Empire and Brets or Empire and Kislev.

It would limit the scope of sales (people with no interest in a human faction don't like getting told to feth off out of the gate) and if its Empire Civil War time its way too easy to buy multiple starters and build up a force. Which weakens sales of additional kits in favor of the less profitable starter, which is something GW doesn't really want. They want people do go buy $60 kits on top of the starter, not just buy a couple starters thinking they can get by without the additional investment.

No, I fully expect Empire A vs. Empire B. There will be some item that separates them that can be used to make them "A vs. B". I expect this will be a similar box to AT and limited on initial release. They'll then release the actual sets along with some additional items for these initial factions. Then in the next release slot (which might not be long) you might see Kislev as they try to muscle in on certain Empire territories. Same for Bretonnia potentially. My expectation is 4 factions within the year of release if this is a 28mm game with maybe one of those not being humans (i.e. wood elves/beastmen/orcs).

Not sure - humans just don't stand out very much in the crowded as opposed to say Skaven so its a harder sell.

Marines are Marines and Titans are Titans and so relatively unique - quasi 16th century Empire dudes hitting each is not going to look very unique - the Warcry Chaos warbands work well in this respect.

Betrayal at Calth and Burning of Prospero were both quite literally Marines vs Marines, with the entire contents usable by a single player for their army (although Burning of Prospero had specific space wolf and thousand son character HQs, and included 5 Custodes and 5 Sisters of silence, but thats whatever, everyone was buying those boxes for 30 MkIII space marines and 5 Tartaros Terminators a box, everything else was just gravy on the side).

As it stands, people already do exactly what you describe with the two player starters - single faction starters like the Horus Heresy boxes or a proposed Empire vs Empire box are arguably more profitable, as people would be buying multiple copies for themselves, whereas the general trend with two faction boxes is for two people to each buy one box and then split the contents between them - having everything in the box be immediately usable by a single consumer disincentivizes splitting and makes it more likely that GW will sell more copies to begin with.

And it doesn't really weaken sales of additional kits at all. In the case of Horus Heresy, most people buying multiple copies of those boxes then turned around and bought forgeworld upgrade sets in order to kit out their stuff with custom heads, shoulder pads, torsos, etc. as well as weapons and wargear that you didn't get in the box. Buying two copies of Indomitus didn't stop me from also buying 2 Eradication Legion and 2 space marine battleforces. Nor did it stop me from buying a Convergence of Dominion, some Lokhust/Hexmark/Ophidian Destroyers, a couple Canoptek Doomstalkers, Szarekh, and the Void Dragon.

If we imagine a hypothetical Empire vs Empire box, I can see it containing something along the lines of a Captain/General, 20 Spearmen, and a Cannon versus a Warrior Priest, 20 Swordsmen, and a pair of Demigryph Knights. Nice mix of stuff, but even buying 2 or 3 boxes of this you're still going to have some holes you're going to want to fill. GW will get its pound of flesh by selling you 2 or 3 boxes of Empire Knights, a couple boxes of Greatswords, a couple boxes of Handgunners/Archers/Crossbowmen/Halberdiers, a Steamtank, a dude riding a Dragon or something, and a terrain piece thats a giant shrine to Sigmar on wheels.

I mean, look at Necrons - nobody is buying Necron Warrior kits or Skorpekh Destroyers, everyone is buying more copies of Indomitus or one of the three actual starter sets instead. GW knows this, and doesn't care. No different when the starter set was Dark Imperium or for the Age of Sigmar starter sets where people just defaulted to buying multiple copies of the starter set and avoided buying standalone kits of the units found in the box - but they did buy other standalone kits for things that *weren't* in the box, lots of them.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
I think it's healthiest to assume a split human starter at initial release.

I'm _really_ dubious about that, unless you mean split between Empire and Brets or Empire and Kislev.

It would limit the scope of sales (people with no interest in a human faction don't like getting told to feth off out of the gate) and if its Empire Civil War time its way too easy to buy multiple starters and build up a force. Which weakens sales of additional kits in favor of the less profitable starter, which is something GW doesn't really want. They want people do go buy $60 kits on top of the starter, not just buy a couple starters thinking they can get by without the additional investment.

No, I fully expect Empire A vs. Empire B. There will be some item that separates them that can be used to make them "A vs. B". I expect this will be a similar box to AT and limited on initial release. They'll then release the actual sets along with some additional items for these initial factions. Then in the next release slot (which might not be long) you might see Kislev as they try to muscle in on certain Empire territories. Same for Bretonnia potentially. My expectation is 4 factions within the year of release if this is a 28mm game with maybe one of those not being humans (i.e. wood elves/beastmen/orcs).

This is basically what I imagine, but I only see it being three factions within a year. Empire, Bretonnia, and one non-human (Wood Elves or Orcs are my guess). Kislev I'm willing to bet are treated as a merc faction that tag along with Empire or something, until they release an expansion 2 years down the line that makes them a full on standalone army with a full roster of units. I think High Elves get the same treatment, but as allies for the Wood Elves (or maybe Bretonnia? Who knows). I think ~3-6 months after release we will also see a conversion kit that lets some legacy WHFB minis that are being used for AoS be backdoored into The Old World, but it will be limited to one-off ally/filler units rather than filling out complete army lists on its own, and will probably be limited only to those minis that started life in the WHFB setting.

as it was already said, this is going to be either much bigger or much smaller than most people think

a box with humans only that can be used as 2 player set or for 1 faction alone, as the HH plastic sets or AT is the most likely from all the information we have (infantry, melee+ranged, cavalry and 2 different heroes)

a box with humans vs orcs is possible as well, using AoS models

or it is going to be big, using up the 40k capacity and being the new main game with 4-6 new full ranged factions in the first year

Voss wrote:
Ah. I don't expect that at all.
AT is weird, because the Titans are the thing and the only thing, but they can be customized. It also has precedent in the old Epic games. So while some grumbling about the lack of Gargants and eldar titans happens, no one is terribly surprised by the lack of expansion.

Old World has... expectations. Unlike the HH, there just isn't enough nostalgia for Empire: the Civil War to focus a game around it. People want their other factions back at least as much (probably more) than they want the HRE with wizards.

Plus, further, I've no idea why they'd waste time on preview articles for Kislev and Brets if the focus is on a fairly random Empire civil war.

The kind of box you're suggesting would cause much table flipping and kill a lot of interest in the game right at the start.

Its also pretty contrary to what GW wants out of their properties. Without a major, major shift in design, its very hard to make the Empire look like a uniquely GW Warhammer IP. They're really going to want something distinctively Warhammer in the Old World starter box (and Golden Compass bears and Frozen ice witches in Kislev doesn't do that either). A pure or even strong human focus is just doesn't fit with GW's tendency to strengthen their IP, and the Old World definitely lacks a Space Marine equivalent to push sales by focusing on a primary faction- and the simply can't do it by focusing on (not) the Holy Roman Empire

Generic orcs, generic elves (in wood and high flavors), etc. don't exactly make the setting distinctive or unique from an IP sense either. Literally does nothing to "strengthen to IP" to copy generic fantasy tropes that are already widespread across the industry in all of GWs main competitors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

a box with humans vs orcs is possible as well, using AoS models

I don't see that happening. GW is going to want to maintain the distinctiveness of its IPs and brands and not allow them to bleed over to one another for a few reasons, chief amongst them is that it wants to sell you one pool of miniatures for Age of Sigmar, and a separate pool of miniatures for Warhammer Fantasy (the only obvious exception to this being the Daemons range, which GW has allowed to be virtually omnipresent across its games). The risk of making the new Warhammer Fantasy Battles Orcs look too much like your Age of Sigmar Orruks, or allowing your Age of Sigmar Orruks to show up in your Warhammer Fantasy armies is that it encourages those who are frugal and thrifty to buy fewer minis and repurpose their existing minis for multiple systems, rather than getting you to go out and buy a whole new army soup to nuts.

Arguably, the shift to Primaris marines in 40k strengthened Horus Heresy as a distinct brand, as it helps reinforce a separation in the space marine miniatures range between the two settings along that same logic.

The other concern though is that Age of Sigmar is a *very* distinct IP overall, to the extent that its pretty hard for competitors to produce large collections of third party minis that will easily fit the aesthetics and stylings of the setting, etc. Introducing those miniatures into a significantly more generic IP like WHFB, absent significant rework of the WHFB brand identity, risks the Age of Sigmar aesthetic becoming more approachable and generic itself, as it creates a bit of a door/conduit for those 3rd party designers to slowly start styling miniatures that blend the old aesthetic with the new.

To be honest, I almost wonder if maybe GW wants to get rid of the Cities of Sigmar stuff in AoS or rebrand that faction with a completely revamped minis range, since its a bit of a hodgepodge odd duckling that doesn't really fit but might otherwise piss off the last WHFB holdouts who were just barely enticed into giving AoS a chance.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ah. I don't expect that at all.
AT is weird, because the Titans are the thing and the only thing, but they can be customized. It also has precedent in the old Epic games. So while some grumbling about the lack of Gargants and eldar titans happens, no one is terribly surprised by the lack of expansion.

Old World has... expectations. Unlike the HH, there just isn't enough nostalgia for Empire: the Civil War to focus a game around it. People want their other factions back at least as much (probably more) than they want the HRE with wizards.

Plus, further, I've no idea why they'd waste time on preview articles for Kislev and Brets if the focus is on a fairly random Empire civil war.

The kind of box you're suggesting would cause much table flipping and kill a lot of interest in the game right at the start.

Its also pretty contrary to what GW wants out of their properties. Without a major, major shift in design, its very hard to make the Empire look like a uniquely GW Warhammer IP. They're really going to want something distinctively Warhammer in the Old World starter box (and Golden Compass bears and Frozen ice witches in Kislev doesn't do that either). A pure or even strong human focus is just doesn't fit with GW's tendency to strengthen their IP, and the Old World definitely lacks a Space Marine equivalent to push sales by focusing on a primary faction- and the simply can't do it by focusing on (not) the Holy Roman Empire

Generic orcs, generic elves (in wood and high flavors), etc. don't exactly make the setting distinctive or unique from an IP sense either. Literally does nothing to "strengthen to IP" to copy generic fantasy tropes that are already widespread across the industry in all of GWs main competitors.

There's some truth to that. But there is a distinctive style to GW orcs and even elves (not to mention chaos) that is more memorable than HRE Germans. Not including _any_ of the things that make Warhammer Fantasy memorable would be a really odd approach to Warhammer: the Old World.

I mean, to me the most memorable aspect of the setting are steampunk renaissance humans fighting medieval knights and vampiric undead more than anything to do with various flavors of elves, dwarves, or orcs. If anything Chaos Warriors and Beastmen are the two factions that I think most deserve to be in the game at launch alongside some flavor of human, I think going with Dwarves, Orcs, or Elves first would be a mistake and a missed opportunity more than anything else.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I mean, to me the most memorable aspect of the setting are steampunk renaissance humans fighting medieval knights and vampiric undead more than anything to do with various flavors of elves, dwarves, or orcs. If anything Chaos Warriors and Beastmen are the two factions that I think most deserve to be in the game at launch alongside some flavor of human, I think going with Dwarves and Orcs first would be a mistake and a missed opportunity more than anything else.

Skaven!!!!

chaos0xomega wrote:
I mean, to me the most memorable aspect of the setting are steampunk renaissance humans

The steampunk crap was a really late addition to the game. I'd be extremely disappointed if they brought that back at an earlier time period.

Why are people thinking they will release two separate sets of empire minis when you can just release one set and then they can be from whatever faction of empire you like?

It is nice to see the map of the dearly missed old world, like seeing an old friend after many years apart.

Will be interesting to see how GW approach this, the market has a lot of very good rank and file mass combat games now. It would be very nice if GW were to learn from those currently available and produce a fresh set of rules, as opposed to a slight modification of a previous WFB edition.

My expectations are set low, just so I don't get disappointed.

Voss wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I mean, to me the most memorable aspect of the setting are steampunk renaissance humans

The steampunk crap was a really late addition to the game. I'd be extremely disappointed if they brought that back at an earlier time period.

It was present in some elements quite early - but more Dwarf related than human and it was always that the Empire was moving from the standard fantasy world in to more of a rennaisance technolgy base - especially Nuln

 Olthannon wrote:
Why are people thinking they will release two separate sets of empire minis when you can just release one set and then they can be from whatever faction of empire you like?

Ehh...one of the more unique bits about the Empire in my opinion easily plays into how it could be done.

You had the more 'backwards' rural provinces like Stirland, whose real contribution to Empire armies were their huntsmen and scouts while the more 'civilized' ones like Altdorf had the trained soldiery and knights.
Having the 'peasant army' and the 'soldiery' as their own unique kits(which were big complaints about the last iteration of the Empire soldier kits BTW) would add some variety there...and in Age of Sigmar for the Freeguild as well.


Personal hopes with regards to Wood Elves is that we'll see some revisiting of the stuff removed from sale for AoS. Glade Guard, Glade Riders, Wardancers, etc were all really showing their age despite still being nice kits...but also the look they had was extremely generic. There's some gorgeous art that's been with us for awhile of Wood Elves wearing leaf-scale mail over top of leathers. If we get that look? Oh hell, I'm in trouble.


Another bit to make a comment of regarding a detrimental factor for the 'big armies' of WHFB of old:
Assembly.
Painting things could definitely be a drain on people's excitement, but the newer style of 'prematched' kits? In my experience they don't seem to have the same draining effort that the older multi-parts had. I don't feel as burnt out working on the newer infantry or cavalry as I used to.
I built 100 Namarti in the same time it took me to build 25 Glade Guard--and could have built more if the kits weren't so dang expensive on the Namarti side of things!

You also have the growing industrial powerhouse of Nuln and the cosmopolitan but Ulric worshipping Middenheim so I guess you could look to make them more unique

I feel it's hard to really guess what GW's plans for initial release are when we don't even know the exact reason and exact market for this revamp.

If it's trying to appeal to the new fanbase that has exploded because of Total War, then yanking the timeline back so that the Empire has no gunpowder, no Wizards and none of the popular and now memeable fan favourites like Karl Franz and Gelt seems kind of questionable.

Indeed, it doesn't exactly bode well for appealing to old players either because The Empire was arguably the most popular faction and if they're going to strip away a lot of its appeal then that's also a potential problem.

This is a genuine question, not a snarky comment or anything.

Is there a reason that we suspect it will be 28mm?

Every time I try to work through my expectations for this product I end up landing at 6mm, 8mm, 12mm, or something similar.

 Deathwolf wrote:
This is a genuine question, not a snarky comment or anything.

Is there a reason that we suspect it will be 28mm?

Every time I try to work through my expectations for this product I end up landing at 6mm, 8mm, 12mm, or something similar.

Most people are going by the old style square base which was part of the original post.

Got me on Skaven.

As for the steampunk, imo its what helped make the setting more distinct from the typical fantasy drivel, can't see them moving away from it. TBH your feelings towards that is how I feel abiut Bretonnia, I liked it better when Bretonnia was a spoof on the decadence of 18th century france with nobles wearing powdered wigs and makeup to hidevtheir various poxes and mutstions. Would love it if they could find a way to reconcilethe two interpretations.

Olthannon - Thats literally the point, its one big Empire army or teo small Empire armies depending how you want to build them, no different than how the Horus Heresy boxes were either one large army or two small ones.

Adeptus Titanicus uses 40K-style round bases, so couldn’t a similar scale (6-8mm) game make use of square bases - for ranked troops rather than single models?

 Deathwolf wrote:
Adeptus Titanicus uses 40K-style round bases, so couldn’t a similar scale (6-8mm) game make use of square bases - for ranked troops rather than single models?

Yes, but you'll be swiftly murdered or told you're a fool just by mentioning it. Best to just nod and smile and wait. Personally I still think 10mm is the best way forward with it but we'll see how it goes.

 Kalamadea wrote:
People keep talking about popularity of games with anecdotal popularity of their local groups, the closest thing I could think of to any kind of real metric would be members of game-specific Facebook Groups or Subreddits

That is some solid and useful research.

Thanks.

Thanks for the advice!

I think I’ll do as you suggested.

chaos0xomega wrote:

Also, IIRC the way UK copyright law works, as it was explained to me by another dakkite some years ago, requires that GW maintain usage/currency of its copyrights. i.e. if GW doesn't release anything further with the "Warmaster" label on it then the name goes up for grabs for a competitor to use after something like 10 or 15 years, etc. This was supposedly part of what led to the flurry of video game releases based on GWs older product lines and discontinued specialist games lines a few years back, as titles needed to be kept "current" before GWs rights sunsetted. Warlord branding its new 15mm plastics as "Epic Battles" might be the result of one of those copyright lapses.

Just to correct a small thing, you're referring to trademark law, not copyright law. Copyright protects content and lasts for something absurd like 75 years after the author's death. But trademarks protect things like names and logos and last only as long as a product is in production (maybe a few years more, or even longer if the trademark holder wants to put up a fight and the challenger doesn't). This is why other companies have been able to make things call Space Crusade and Hero Quest (with varying levels of success) or I could launch my Trolls in the Pantry kickstarter tomorrow

GW could easily protect their Warmaster trademark by putting the rules PDF online and saying 'here! we are making Warmaster!' Alternately they could claim other uses of the term like in the Horus Heresy count as using the trademark. So I doubt they would relaunch it just to protect the name.

 Mr Morden wrote:
You also have the growing industrial powerhouse of Nuln and the cosmopolitan but Ulric worshipping Middenheim so I guess you could look to make them more unique

But that kinda goes with what I was saying--you have the more 'civilized' parts and the 'rural' parts.
The gubbins on the shields and armor might be wolf heads or ravens or antlers instead of twin-tailed hammers and the knights might wear wolf capes or hooded tabards and have hammers or scythes...but they were way closer than Stirland or any of the huntsmen or militia styled units would look.

That's how I would do things if I were GW. Set the box up to have a limited number of 'state troops' and then a number of 'militia' units. Give a huntsman character and a general/captain, then have at it with a peasant uprising!

Bosskelot wrote:I feel it's hard to really guess what GW's plans for initial release are when we don't even know the exact reason and exact market for this revamp.

I get the feeling that GW themselves are as unsure about the whole thing as we are.It's possible that decisions on scale, scope and other basic things hadn't been made when "The Old World" was first announced. Perhaps it's only now after studying the initial reactions from the fans that things are being finalized ahead of production.