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As a complete and total newb to 40k and CSM specifically, what would be the best way to go about building EC at this point? I have a full AoS Slaanesh army and I really want to be able to run it in 40k(don't care if I win much, I'm a casual player). I have about 30 Chaos Marines, partially built from a friends bit box that netted me 20, and rounding it out with a new box from my LGS a month ago. All mine are old plastic sculpts with various loadouts.

What would I even need to make a decently viable(read, don't table me bro) army?

Also, would it be weird for me to run a purple and gold color scheme and still call them EC in 40k? I don't like the pale pink of the post-heresy EC.

I really want to recommend avoiding this like the plague. However, in the interests of facilitating you learning this painfully on your own, here's some of the things I would pickup:

Cultists - enough for 2-3 squads at least.
Noise Marines - probably 20 with Sonic Weaponry, 2 Blastmasters, Sonic Blasters on the rest.
Chaos Lord, Dark Apostle, Sorcerer, Daemon Prince

You'll probably be a in a good place to start and at least put something on the table.

If you want to go in for a squad of Terminators you can, you'll want the base loadout though, which makes them fairly expensive to buy.

I'd start light with that, see if you like it, you're not locked into playing EC with Slaaneshi daemons in any way other than thematically.

It should be entirely obvious to you why you can safely dismiss the above.

How big is your Daemon force, and what is it composed of?

As a first swing, I reckon you want to field 3 MSU CSM squads (not Noise Marines) and 2 HQs, which should probably be Sorcerors, then fill up the rest of way to 2k (or whatever) with Daemons. Loadouts depends on your meta, really, but you probably shouldn't expect them to do much beyond hold backfield objectives. They will die to a stiff breeze.

There's a lot of chatter, though nothing confirmed, that EC will get their own book a la DG and TS relatively soon-ish. As in, within a year. I personally have been largely holding off expanding on my EC until I see what happens with that. DG and TS lost some options available to CSM when they got new books.

On the other hand, you could always just make this current CSM army a Allied Heretic Astartes Detachment if/when they get their own book.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
It should be entirely obvious to you why you can safely dismiss the above.

I don't care enough to argue the point extensively other than to say that basic CSM squads are in a bad place right now. Noise Marines just got some buffs and rumor has it they may get more soon.

Ex isn't wrong on Sorcerers, but the Dark Apostle and Daemon Prince are kind of auto-include these days.

I'm not disputing that. I explicitly mentioned that you cannot expect them to do much and they will die to a stiff breeze. I also stated that changes are expected by many to be made to EC.

I don't know if they possess a DP. Partly why I asked what's in the Daemons. DAs are pointless with MSU CSM squads, which I know the OP does possess. They do not mention possessing any Cultists.

Again, based on the info in the OP and the question actually asked - and not a really weird, arrogant desire to harp at newbs for their Faction choice - I would recommend a MSU Battalion with 2 Sorcerors to hold the backfield in order to run the whole shebang in 40K, on a casual basis, by a player who doesn't care if they win much.

Which - again - was the question asked.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Again, based on the info in the OP and the question actually asked - and not a really weird, arrogant desire to harp at newbs for their Faction choice

It's not about harping newbs, really, it isn't. It's about how much money you can quickly sink into this game and how right now Chaos is just some place that sinking that money is most likely going to lead to regrets.

Chaos is not getting any changes for a long time, what we have right now is what we're going to have for the next year most likely, which is a long time to be fighting uphill with a sub-par faction.

That being said, EC has the Remnant of the Maraviglia, Excruciating Frequencies, Veterans of the Long War combination, which should be good for at least one glorious fusillade.

So you suggest that the OP use models they might not have? And you take issue with a suggestion that they use the models they have until they're used to the Faction? And NMs are getting changed up soon, but also no changes for "a long time".

Removed

 Excommunicatus wrote:
So you suggest that the OP use models they might not have? And you take issue with a suggestion that they use the models they have until they're used to the Faction? And NMs are getting changed up soon, but also no changes for "a long time".

Removed

It's pretty easy to convert CSM to NM, the bits are cheap.

But if you want to roll with CSM squads, especially EC ones, enjoy, just be aware you are putting one of the worst units in the game down on the table.

But maybe leave me out of your sexual fantasies Ex.

Mercury53 wrote:
As a complete and total newb to 40k and CSM specifically, what would be the best way to go about building EC at this point? I have a full AoS Slaanesh army and I really want to be able to run it in 40k(don't care if I win much, I'm a casual player). I have about 30 Chaos Marines, partially built from a friends bit box that netted me 20, and rounding it out with a new box from my LGS a month ago. All mine are old plastic sculpts with various loadouts.

What would I even need to make a decently viable(read, don't table me bro) army?

Also, would it be weird for me to run a purple and gold color scheme and still call them EC in 40k? I don't like the pale pink of the post-heresy EC.

Firstly, the alleviate your Lore concerns and since the others are bickering, Ec are splintered meaning not really uniforn anymore, meaning you are free to change it up.

Secondly You got the daemons, now i'd go for the prince, as a csm hq, granting you cross synergy.

Further a lord is decent for his aura due to Ec excelling in the shooting Department.

The 30 marines are a bit wonkey , they got issues and Ec isn't the faction for fielding them, however 3x5 as excommunicatus suggested would net you a battalion.
If you can consider some havocs.

Noise marines are a bit iffy atm.

'Cheap' is still more of an expenditure than 'none'. If they have Daemonettes, they likely have the bits to make a Slaanesh Sorceror already.

Wow thanks for all the responses! Didn't intend to spark a debate but it sure was interesting reading through it. Again, thank you for two solid arguments on the opposite side of the same coin, and to Not Online! for the third point of view.

First off, let me fill you in on my Daemons. I have the following(in total, not an army list):

1 KoS, sinistrous hand
1 Syll'esske
1 Infernal Enrapturess
1 The Masque
1 Herald on Seeker Chariot
1 Herald on Exalted Chariot
1 Herald on Hellflayer
1 Daemon Prince(StD sculpt)

60 Daemonettes
15 Seekers
6 Fiends

aaaand because it's cool but doesn't have rules, 1 Fane of Slaanesh.



I really appreciate the comments on all sides. I was hoping to field the CSM I have in leiu of purchasing more models, as I've also just discovered Orks and I'm trying to build that army up, but I'm not opposed to throwing a couple hundred bucks at some CSM units that will make my play experience more fun. My wife might disagree... but hey I play Warhammer, clearly I don't listen to her budget advice ALL the time... .

I'm already contemplating another KoS, maybe modeling it as the character for visual separation if nothing else. And I'd like to pick up The Contorted Epitome for completionist reasons and because I've heard it's a beast in AoS.

I'll look into Terminators and possibly more CSM kits with Noise Marine upgrades, but would it just be better to run a different faction? I'm not glued to the EC concept at all, I just wanted to try to be fluffy because it's fun.

Thanks again all!

By 'the character' you mean Shalaxi Helbane, right?

Not Zarakynel? Zarakynel should not be put anywhere near a table.

Ok, So I'd look at running a MSU CSM Battalion with two Sorcerors, with the Daemonettes, Seekers, Fiends, Syll-Esske, IE and the KoS in another Battalion.

That's pretty much bang on 2k pts, depending on options.

EDIT - All of the sub-Factions are pretty much just as bad, except Alpha Legion. And only because they have the only semi-useful Legion Tactic. Slaaensh Daemons work with any Undivided Legion, though again, they're all fairly bad.

The latest Psychic Awakening book has additional rules for Emperors Children in it. Make sure you take a look at that.

Mercury53 wrote:
I'll look into Terminators and possibly more CSM kits with Noise Marine upgrades, but would it just be better to run a different faction? I'm not glued to the EC concept at all, I just wanted to try to be fluffy because it's fun.

*If* EC gets their own book, I would guess there would probably be a few new kits along the same style as Death Guard and Thousand Sons, maybe even a Primarch? I'd definitely look into what might be coming before making any decisions!

The problem with that is that nobody except GW actually knows so you're not going to get a definitive answer.

And you end up where I am and have been for well over a year, in a holding-pattern waiting to see what's going to happen.

If EC do get their own book, there is nothing at all forcing you to discontinue using your current CSM with the 'vanilla' Heretic Astartes book, unless maybe you take Lucius. Which you probably shouldn't anyway.

History of Ahriman and Typhus suggests that neither Lucius nor Kharn will be in Codex: Heretic Astartes if EC and WE get their own books.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Noise marines are a bit iffy atm.

Is this still true after the supplement?

S5 and D2 on all their 3-shot assault weapons seems like it might actually put them over the top, especially compared to most other options at the moment. For a troops slot, it's fairly potent. Better than CSM and probably even cultists, it seems.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
By 'the character' you mean Shalaxi Helbane, right?

Not Zarakynel? Zarakynel should not be put anywhere near a table.

Ok, So I'd look at running a MSU CSM Battalion with two Sorcerors, with the Daemonettes, Seekers, Fiends, Syll-Esske, IE and the KoS in another Battalion.

That's pretty much bang on 2k pts, depending on options.

EDIT - All of the sub-Factions are pretty much just as bad, except Alpha Legion. And only because they have the only semi-useful Legion Tactic. Slaaensh Daemons work with any Undivided Legion, though again, they're all fairly bad.

Yep, was referring to Shalaxi Hellbane. And really it's more to add some variety and make the army look less spammy. I'd likely magnetize that one to be either Shalaxi or a KoS.

Thanks for the help there, looks like I just need to pick up some sorcerers and I'll be good then. I might already have one I could trade for locally, so that makes one additional expense plus I still have to buy both the Chaos Daemons codex and CSM codex. Since I will likely only play this casually for a while I might borrow those from a friend. I'm really wanting to also build Orks, and Orks is expensive ya know!

Attached pic of my Keeper for fun

Niiru wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Noise marines are a bit iffy atm.

Is this still true after the supplement?

S5 and D2 on all their 3-shot assault weapons seems like it might actually put them over the top, especially compared to most other options at the moment. For a troops slot, it's fairly potent. Better than CSM and probably even cultists, it seems.

The pricetag and w 1 counter that sadly Imo.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mercury53 wrote:
Wow thanks for all the responses! Didn't intend to spark a debate but it sure was interesting reading through it. Again, thank you for two solid arguments on the opposite side of the same coin, and to Not Online! for the third point of view.

First off, let me fill you in on my Daemons. I have the following(in total, not an army list):

1 KoS, sinistrous hand
1 Syll'esske
1 Infernal Enrapturess
1 The Masque
1 Herald on Seeker Chariot
1 Herald on Exalted Chariot
1 Herald on Hellflayer
1 Daemon Prince(StD sculpt)

60 Daemonettes
15 Seekers
6 Fiends

aaaand because it's cool but doesn't have rules, 1 Fane of Slaanesh.



I really appreciate the comments on all sides. I was hoping to field the CSM I have in leiu of purchasing more models, as I've also just discovered Orks and I'm trying to build that army up, but I'm not opposed to throwing a couple hundred bucks at some CSM units that will make my play experience more fun. My wife might disagree... but hey I play Warhammer, clearly I don't listen to her budget advice ALL the time... .

I'm already contemplating another KoS, maybe modeling it as the character for visual separation if nothing else. And I'd like to pick up The Contorted Epitome for completionist reasons and because I've heard it's a beast in AoS.

I'll look into Terminators and possibly more CSM kits with Noise Marine upgrades, but would it just be better to run a different faction? I'm not glued to the EC concept at all, I just wanted to try to be fluffy because it's fun.

Thanks again all!

I'd use the daemons then for battalions and would not bother with a csm one.
Instead i'd go for heavy dakka choices then, e.g. havocs, obliterators, dp's and let the"conparatively cheap" daemonetes do troop duty

You need ObSec in the backfield, IMO. Necessarily and always. Even in casual play.

--------------------------------------------------

Mercury53,

You've got at least six Daemonettes boxes which means you've got six of those Daemonic Icons and three boxes of Seekers so you've got three of those Daemonic Icons so unless you used all nine of them on nine units use those to make Sorcerors. No fuss, no expense.

You just cut their right hand off at the wrist and glue on the Daemon hand holding the Icon at a jaunty angle.

Hey Mercury53!

Welcome to 40k! Dakka Dakka can be a bit overbearing at times, but more often than not the folks here mean well. I love the choice to dig into the Emperor's Children. Personally, I'm hugely hoping that they release a Fulgrim Daemon Primarch, which I'm sure will have lots of folks clamouring to join the EC group. Also, Faith & Fury was just released, which is giving a number of useful tools to the Emperor's Children.

The most important thing in 40k, as with any wargame, is to make a plan. One of the strongest plans in 40k right now is having powerful backfield shooting supporting some kind of push up to objectives, and pushing opponents away/off of objectives. Slaaneshi daemons are known for their speed in 40k, and having a detachment of them supporting you can really help control where your opponent is able to go, simply because you can get into his back line so quickly (even if they don't hit all that hard when they get there). You'll probably find yourself with a majority Slaanesh Daemons army for a while as you build up the Emperor's Children.

Speaking of getting off charges, the Emperor's Children just gained a stratagem and Warlord Trait from Faith and Fury that makes them one of the most reliable charging armies in the game. Having the ability to reroll charges for your Warlord will be very useful for any Chaos Marine HQ that has some enhanced movement capabilities, such as a Lord with a jump pack or a Daemon Prince with wings. Also, being able to change any of your charge dice to a "6" after the roll is huge as well, allowing for some very reliable long-range charges (which, again, with a Lord with a Jump Pack to deep strike, and reroll charges, you can come down, charge, reroll if one of the dice isn't a 3 or better, and then change one of the dice to a 6 to practically guarantee that charge). Daemon Princes are great here because they also can cast Psychic Powers, such as Warp-Time. Successfully cast Warp Time on an
Emperor's Children Daemon Prince with Wings, and give it +2" movement from Combat Elixirs at the start of the battle, and you should pretty reliably make a 1st turn charge almost every game with him (even without the Warlord Trait for reroll charges).

Also, as stated, if you can make some Noise Marines, that would go a long way. Not only are Noise Marines Troops for an Emperor's Children army, thus negating the need for the often sub-par basic Chaos Space Marines, the Noise Marines get a significant boost with the new Excruciating Frequencies stratagem, that boosts their strength and damage by 1 each (meaning your Sonic weapons become S5, 2 damage, ignores cover, while Blastmasters can fire either D6 shots at the above profile with and extra -1AP or D3 shots with a S9, AP-2, dmg d3+1 and ignores cover).

Hope you find this helpful!

 Excommunicatus wrote:
You need ObSec in the backfield, IMO. Necessarily and always. Even in casual play.

--------------------------------------------------

Mercury53,

You've got at least six Daemonettes boxes which means you've got six of those Daemonic Icons and three boxes of Seekers so you've got three of those Daemonic Icons so unless you used all nine of them on nine units use those to make Sorcerors. No fuss, no expense.

You just cut their right hand off at the wrist and glue on the Daemon hand holding the Icon at a jaunty angle.

I do have some spare icons, I believe there are at least 2, so that's a great idea!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yarium wrote:
Hey Mercury53!

Welcome to 40k! Dakka Dakka can be a bit overbearing at times, but more often than not the folks here mean well. I love the choice to dig into the Emperor's Children. Personally, I'm hugely hoping that they release a Fulgrim Daemon Primarch, which I'm sure will have lots of folks clamouring to join the EC group. Also, Faith & Fury was just released, which is giving a number of useful tools to the Emperor's Children.

The most important thing in 40k, as with any wargame, is to make a plan. One of the strongest plans in 40k right now is having powerful backfield shooting supporting some kind of push up to objectives, and pushing opponents away/off of objectives. Slaaneshi daemons are known for their speed in 40k, and having a detachment of them supporting you can really help control where your opponent is able to go, simply because you can get into his back line so quickly (even if they don't hit all that hard when they get there). You'll probably find yourself with a majority Slaanesh Daemons army for a while as you build up the Emperor's Children.

Speaking of getting off charges, the Emperor's Children just gained a stratagem and Warlord Trait from Faith and Fury that makes them one of the most reliable charging armies in the game. Having the ability to reroll charges for your Warlord will be very useful for any Chaos Marine HQ that has some enhanced movement capabilities, such as a Lord with a jump pack or a Daemon Prince with wings. Also, being able to change any of your charge dice to a "6" after the roll is huge as well, allowing for some very reliable long-range charges (which, again, with a Lord with a Jump Pack to deep strike, and reroll charges, you can come down, charge, reroll if one of the dice isn't a 3 or better, and then change one of the dice to a 6 to practically guarantee that charge). Daemon Princes are great here because they also can cast Psychic Powers, such as Warp-Time. Successfully cast Warp Time on an
Emperor's Children Daemon Prince with Wings, and give it +2" movement from Combat Elixirs at the start of the battle, and you should pretty reliably make a 1st turn charge almost every game with him (even without the Warlord Trait for reroll charges).

Also, as stated, if you can make some Noise Marines, that would go a long way. Not only are Noise Marines Troops for an Emperor's Children army, thus negating the need for the often sub-par basic Chaos Space Marines, the Noise Marines get a significant boost with the new Excruciating Frequencies stratagem, that boosts their strength and damage by 1 each (meaning your Sonic weapons become S5, 2 damage, ignores cover, while Blastmasters can fire either D6 shots at the above profile with and extra -1AP or D3 shots with a S9, AP-2, dmg d3+1 and ignores cover).

Hope you find this helpful!

That's a lot of stuff to process, but thanks! I'm still pretty new to 40k so a lot of the stats seem greek at the moment. I have a much better understanding of AoS, but being that I can only play every now and then it's still going to be a long process for me to learn. Posts like yours help!

I already have my Chaos Marines built, so I'd have to convert them to Noise Marines. I'll look into that. Glad they aren't painted yet.

Got no advice, just wanted to say that your KoS looks amazing

If you want screen clear 9 bikers do well if you have 2-3 cp to invest on Endless Cacophony to shoot 2x, Votlw for +1 wound.
Can delete a screen turn 1 depending on the unit, cleared a 20 block of my buds genestealers last game that way, opens a lane for discolords or w/e you need to go deep and melee with.

Strats good for obliterators but 345 pts so...

Likely Seekers, the Fiends and the KoS. A turn two Charge is a given, in those circs..

Daemonettes 'mop up' and take Objectives, turn four.

Of course, it's never quite so simple IRL.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Likely Seekers, the Fiends and the KoS. A turn two Charge is a given, in those circs..

Daemonettes 'mop up' and take Objectives, turn four.

Of course, it's never quite so simple IRL.

Excommunicatus is correct. Since you already heavily invested in Slaaneshi Daemons you'll want to lean on them. Since you can run 3 detachments you can always take 30X Daemonettes and a couple heralds in a detachment for CP. Even with our new Psychic Awakening boost, daemons are always going to be cheaper and more effective if you want assault. So, for your marines you'll want to focus more on shooting and use charges to finish off units.

Since you have 30X CSM just proxy them as Noise Marines as is for now, no one will care. You could take them in three units of 10X; with your Daemon Prince. Then you'd just need one more HQ to run a EC battalion. that will at least get you to the point of fielding an army. You build up you units from there. You can also proxy your Fane of Slaanesh for the Necrolith Crown if you like. The Contorted Epitome is good in both games systems so its as good purchase. In 40K is a fast 12" movement, characters with a 2+ save vs mortal Wounds, that locks units in combat and is a Psychic beast.

Noise Marines aren’t bad at all. Stock standard with bolters and a blastmaster isnt bad after the Bolter buffs, but with the new stratagem sonic weapons are good if you think you have the CP to throw around - if you’re planning on making a super unit should always do sonic weapons. If Noise Marines get the rumoured 2W buff, with the FNP cast on them and the toughness strat they are effectively Plague Marines that shoot when they die. Offense with Prescience and Veterans of the Long War, Endless Cacophony, Relic of Mariviglia, and the Sonic Weapon strat, is just ludicrous. You’ll easily kill multiple units if you split fire right, so taking redundant squads or ways to move them up the field isn’t a bad idea.

EC bikers are quite nice and with Warptime, they hustle up the
field and can just flat out shred infantry, scorers and screens if you Cacophony. Some of the best Chaos players are using them to great effect.

Daemon Princes are great. The Elixir is good here, and warlord traits to help them get into CC. Just remember you only get one Warptime a turn, so plan it out, but have back up plans.

On the subject of sonic weaponry and all things EC, there's something to be said for Sonic Helbrutes (basically a normal helbrute but can be given a twin blastmaster, and doom siren as per FW FAQ). These can be surprisingly shooty, especially with Fire Frenzy for shooting twice at the nearest enemy for when you want something dead. Alternatively, they can be quite stompy, with doom siren and two fists with heavy flamers.

Now the one thing you will hear over and over again is that 'such and such a unit dies to a stiff breeze'. This is true in the competitive scene, less so in casual. Playing Slaanesh in 40k, I think you have to accept that everything is fragile, but that it can put out a fair bit of hurt before it dies - especially as noise marines shoot when they die.

Also, EC are receiving more than a couple warlord traits, relics and stratagems in the new Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury. Honour the Prince is a nice one - allows you to change one of the dice after rolling to charge to a 6. This means charging units which have just arrived on the board have a much better time of it. Warptalons love this, with Warpflame to deny overwatch, and being Daemons they will benefit from certain Slaanesh Daemon buffs.

Am I telling you to go out and buy warptalons? Definitely not - rules change and the army changes too. Chasing the meta is expensive and soul-destroying, but then such is the quest for perfection. However, if you're going for a predominantly Daemon army, it would make sense to try and leverage the synergy to your advantage. End of the day, your army, your choice.

With the recent buffs you should really get at least 10 warp talons and 10-20 noise marines. Possessed are a good fit too.

And as others have said lord discordants work great with slanesh aura. Although I'd wait until chapter approved 19 arives I reckon they're in for a points bump.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
On the subject of sonic weaponry and all things EC, there's something to be said for Sonic Helbrutes (basically a normal helbrute but can be given a twin blastmaster, and doom siren as per FW FAQ). These can be surprisingly shooty, especially with Fire Frenzy for shooting twice at the nearest enemy for when you want something dead. Alternatively, they can be quite stompy, with doom siren and two fists with heavy flamers.

Now the one thing you will hear over and over again is that 'such and such a unit dies to a stiff breeze'. This is true in the competitive scene, less so in casual. Playing Slaanesh in 40k, I think you have to accept that everything is fragile, but that it can put out a fair bit of hurt before it dies - especially as noise marines shoot when they die.

Also, EC are receiving more than a couple warlord traits, relics and stratagems in the new Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury. Honour the Prince is a nice one - allows you to change one of the dice after rolling to charge to a 6. This means charging units which have just arrived on the board have a much better time of it. Warptalons love this, with Warpflame to deny overwatch, and being Daemons they will benefit from certain Slaanesh Daemon buffs.

Am I telling you to go out and buy warptalons? Definitely not - rules change and the army changes too. Chasing the meta is expensive and soul-destroying, but then such is the quest for perfection. However, if you're going for a predominantly Daemon army, it would make sense to try and leverage the synergy to your advantage. End of the day, your army, your choice.

I'm going to have to pick up the Psychic Awakening book to learn about this stuff aren't I? I still don't have the CSM or Chaos Daemons codeces yet. Thank you for the informative post! I've already had to come to the conclusion that Slaaneshi Daemons are fragile because the are, even in AoS. They just pack a hell of a punch in AoS and their summoning is on point if you pay attention and remember all your rules. I have yet to have a game where I wasn't able to summon replacement heroes instantly, and even if I lose on objectives my opponents have been scrambling to win, it's never easy for them.

How does Slaaneshi summoning work in 40k? I know I can find the answer myself but I'm at work and thought of the question so I figured I'd ask it.

As for chasing the Meta, I'm absolutely not interested. I play both systems(and blood bowl) just for fun and I'm lucky to get a game a week in, and that's typically a 1000 point game. I just want to be able to field my dudes(dudettes? dudish-ettes?) and roll some dice, and have a good time.

Summoning is not considered a good mechanic in 40K, but on the sort of casual basis that you seem to be happy playing at, it would probably work ok for you.

Honestly, it's too complex to quickly explain, 'cause it means I gotta talk about <KEYWORDS> and reserve points and the Rule of Three and I don't know how familiar you are with any of that.