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GWs push for more and more books is again taking a serious upward trend.

Some of these made sense.

Main rule book - check
Yearly update to rules and tweaks to game - check

Now it seems GW has its blood up for books though:

Vigilus books
Psychic Awakening (lots of books!)
Chapter Approved being moved to 2 books
Space Marine Codex and several supplemental books for them

It’s going to get to a point where I have more books than Termagants!

GW - if anyone there ever reads posts then give it a rest. Think of new and better ways to avoid this nonsense. Digital codexes which are crazy expensive should also be updated with this new stuff automatically - including faq updates because you never properly tested them (eg, Deathmarks). Your models are already expensive, now you are adding extortionately priced books to your ever-increasing range of books which will inevitably be made redundant sometimes only a year later.

More importantly if you really need it, use a viagra instead of writing a book. They cost about the same.

I like the books for the lore and art. Vigilus Defiant was exceptional for this (Vigilus Ablaze, not as much). I wouldn’t buy something like Psychic Awakening that I’m not interested in.

Let’s seriously stop pretending that people need to buy the books for the rules as an excuse to complain, that charade has gotten very silly.

If books are an economic vehicle to allow rules updates to be regularly published, that’s fine with me.

Gordoape wrote:
Let’s seriously stop pretending that people need to buy the books for the rules as an excuse to complain, that charade has gotten very silly.

Sssh

People with nothing to complain about need something to complain about.

But I totally agree. I never take all these books I'm apparently supposed to be taking

So, you are saying that people do not need to buy the books for the rules? Should they get the rules some other way, e.g. illegal copying of them? Group buying in clubs? Apologies for being stupid, but I must be missing something, for if this is a "silly charade" then the solution must be obvious.

Mark.

I prefer to have a steady book release with lore and some rules than having less releases.

I can buy it if what's in the book interests me, I can not buy it if not.

I don't see a problem here.

Cheeslord wrote:
So, you are saying that people do not need to buy the books for the rules? Should they get the rules some other way, e.g. illegal copying of them? Group buying in clubs? Apologies for being stupid, but I must be missing something, for if this is a "silly charade" then the solution must be obvious.

Mark.

I mean... yes? You’re clearly playing dumb here. The rules are available by download, by sharing with others, or via apps like BattleScribe. The majority of players actually do use these resources rather than buying new books. I personally buy the books because I like reading the lore and looking at the pictures in paper. But if it was a financial hardship for me I would not.

I think it's against the rules to say "go grab a pirated pdf" so no.

I'm saying it's ultimately up to you how many books you bring.

Let's say I play Admech with the formation for the Kastellan robots. I would need the Vigilus book. I could take it, I could also easily just photocopy the specific page and slip it in my codex.

Then instead of the thick "rule book" take the little pamphlet (it urks me that it doesn't come with the rule book and is hidden away in VS box's) or the pdf off the website.

So downsizing what you need to take is very possible which is why I don't like threads complaining about books

I think fraser is wrong on this issue. Splitting faction's rules between several different book is not a good thing for the consumer.

Considering 8th Edition has as off now 122 rule sources, i am of the opinion that gw could severly cut that down

Darsath wrote:
I think fraser is wrong on this issue. Splitting faction's rules between several different book is not a good thing for the consumer.

Sorry, if I worded it poorly but I'm not advocating for splitting all the content. I'm just trying to point out that the amount of books you need to take can be reduced by other means like a photocopier

Gordoape wrote:

Cheeslord wrote:
So, you are saying that people do not need to buy the books for the rules? Should they get the rules some other way, e.g. illegal copying of them? Group buying in clubs? Apologies for being stupid, but I must be missing something, for if this is a "silly charade" then the solution must be obvious.

Mark.

I mean... yes? You’re clearly playing dumb here. The rules are available by download, by sharing with others, or via apps like BattleScribe. The majority of players actually do use these resources rather than buying new books. I personally buy the books because I like reading the lore and looking at the pictures in paper. But if it was a financial hardship for me I would not.

Yeah, I will just waltz in to the store and inform the store owner, that I am not ordering the CA book, because I will just print out the GK rules. To that the store owners anwsers is going to be that I will not get to play at his store then.

Karol wrote:

Gordoape wrote:

Cheeslord wrote:
So, you are saying that people do not need to buy the books for the rules? Should they get the rules some other way, e.g. illegal copying of them? Group buying in clubs? Apologies for being stupid, but I must be missing something, for if this is a "silly charade" then the solution must be obvious.

Mark.

I mean... yes? You’re clearly playing dumb here. The rules are available by download, by sharing with others, or via apps like BattleScribe. The majority of players actually do use these resources rather than buying new books. I personally buy the books because I like reading the lore and looking at the pictures in paper. But if it was a financial hardship for me I would not.

Yeah, I will just waltz in to the store and inform the store owner, that I am not ordering the CA book, because I will just print out the GK rules. To that the store owners anwsers is going to be that I will not get to play at his store then.

The issue is the policy of your store, not more content being printed.

So you want to tell me that you can walk in to a GW store or any other store and drop a photo copy of a codex, and then play? Because, unless the store doesn't sell codex, I don't see it ever happening.

And as far as policy goes, If GW could do it today, they would sell each unit as a separate book.

Or, people use one of the many free apps that let you play the game without carting around more books than models.

Bring on the digital age already.

Back in the day a codex was a paperback and affordable, and made for a gamer and not Captain Nemo's Library aboard the Nautilus. I'd love to update my aging codex collection for Eldar and Tyranids, and even venture other races, but omg it would be very expensive to do so for something that will probably be soon out of date. Not to mention the modern codex has a bit of weight and takes up shelf space.

Not saying they shouldn't do the hardbacks, but "slim" versions for those who just want to field their armies should once again be a thing. I quite like the Kill Team manuals and AoS's Gaming Book and will probably pick up the latter shortly.

Aye, GW at this rate will be solely resposible for deforresting South American jungles.

SamusDrake wrote:
Back in the day a codex was a paperback and affordable, and made for a gamer and not Captain Nemo's Library aboard the Nautilus. I'd love to update my aging codex collection for Eldar and Tyranids, and even venture other races, but omg it would be very expensive to do so for something that will probably be soon out of date. Not to mention the modern codex has a bit of weight and takes up shelf space.

Not saying they shouldn't do the hardbacks, but "slim" versions for those who just want to field their armies should once again be a thing. I quite like the Kill Team manuals and AoS's Gaming Book and will probably pick up the latter shortly.

They did release the mini rule book. But in typical GW fashion, it is completley un-FAQ'd and un-errata'd. Completley un updated despite being released pretty recently, years after the original rules were printed

It's literal free money so it shouldn't be surprising. It's pretty whack though. I took a haiatus right before Vigilus 1 dropped and now I have absolutely no idea where to go for the most up to date rules for my army.

Sumilidon wrote:
GWs push for more and more books is again taking a serious upward trend.

Some of these made sense.

Main rule book - check
Yearly update to rules and tweaks to game - check

Now it seems GW has its blood up for books though:

Vigilus books
Psychic Awakening (lots of books!)
Chapter Approved being moved to 2 books
Space Marine Codex and several supplemental books for them

It’s going to get to a point where I have more books than Termagants!

GW - if anyone there ever reads posts then give it a rest. Think of new and better ways to avoid this nonsense. Digital codexes which are crazy expensive should also be updated with this new stuff automatically - including faq updates because you never properly tested them (eg, Deathmarks). Your models are already expensive, now you are adding extortionately priced books to your ever-increasing range of books which will inevitably be made redundant sometimes only a year later.

More importantly if you really need it, use a viagra instead of writing a book. They cost about the same.

In theory the idea of how they're organizing the books is a good idea. In practice it probably won't be.

The CA split is just upside (for me at least) as long as the price doesn't go up. The small format main rule book was just a tragedy, but the supplements could be great if they stay static for a long time. Most assuredly the Astartes book will get updated within the next couple years with the next wave of Primaris, but the supplement could stick....maybe.

GW has writers and artists on staff, they have to justify their wages by constantly churning out new books - at a profit, no less. It would be a lot easier to accept if they moved to cheaper perfect bound books rather than hardcovers that will be obsolete within 2 years.

I honestly kind of like all the new rules releases. Nothing has come out that really affects my army, but I'll be certain to buy it if/when it comes out.

 fraser1191 wrote:

Gordoape wrote:
Let’s seriously stop pretending that people need to buy the books for the rules as an excuse to complain, that charade has gotten very silly.

Sssh

People with nothing to complain about need something to complain about.

But I totally agree. I never take all these books I'm apparently supposed to be taking

remember back a few years ago, everyone here (many of the same people I might add complaining about the amount of rules now) where ASKING for a living ruleset?

edited by moderator

BrianDavion wrote:
...remember back a few years ago, everyone here (many of the same people I might add complaining about the amount of rules now) where ASKING for a living ruleset?

I think when they asked for a "living ruleset" they were expecting something like how Infinity, X-Wing, and Warmachine give you all the rules and updates for free and use an easily-updated digital primary source for pushing rules updates, not GW demanding everyone buy a new paper book every year.

I don’t have a problem with lore books or the general notion of them putting more content out.

The issue I have is that these rules are being invalidated within a few years of being published. For example, I never got to use any of the 7th ed Gathering Storm rules. By the time I’d painted Celestine the rules for invalidated with 8th dropping.

Easily the worst case for me was when I got the new Genecult codex when the army dropped. Intent was to keep a small allied detachment to go with my Nids. Then, 8th drops like a few months later. So I get the index. Then they bring out an 8th codex; which I didn’t bother buying. Never played a game with them. I am probably going to play a game with them soon with my mate and Iam still not going to buy that codex.

Space Marines have the same issue. We’ve had two new codexes and the Vigilus stuff. Now I have actually played a few games with them but honestly it’s a little absurd that all the Vigilus content has already been invalidated or rolled into the new codex.

This isn’t like a Forgeworld black book that’s going to be still fairly usable for five plus years. If GW wants to do little patches for its rules then they should not be charging money for it or they should be in a basic cheap format. Rules are being invalidated on annual basis. That’s really is hundreds of pounds down the drain. You can realistically buy a codex and not have finished the army before it’s codex is unusable.

I am already hearing rumbles of 9th edition and it’s bordering upon a scam at this point. There’s no point buying rulebooks that have shelf life of a year.

Sure, some people are machines who can churn out an army month, only own one army at a time or are playing the game every week. I can’t do that and it’s really hurt my wallet over the years.

Also these books are all clogging up much needed updates with stopgaps and bloat.

In the time that was spent screwing around with SM supplements and PA, they could have released 4-5 2.0 codexes to armies that really needed them (DG, GK, Tyranids etc)

The fact that PA is rumored to last till June is some pretty bad news for the armies who need the full update now. At this rate, I bet some armies will be waiting 2+ years for their revised codex

Dumb Smart Guy wrote:
they could have released 4-5 2.0 codexes to armies that really needed them (DG, GK, Tyranids etc)

That's kind of what they're trying to do with PA. It's just that marines throw everything out of whack so what might have felt significant 6 months ago seems limp now.

Like I know it isn't directly a codex, but I don't have a huge issue with them doing it this way as long as its worthwhile since a new codex wouldn't give me but a little bit more extra material whereas PA at least has some lore to read and other items people might find amusing.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Dumb Smart Guy wrote:
they could have released 4-5 2.0 codexes to armies that really needed them (DG, GK, Tyranids etc)

That's kind of what they're trying to do with PA. It's just that marines throw everything out of whack so what might have felt significant 6 months ago seems limp now.

Like I know it isn't directly a codex, but I don't have a huge issue with them doing it this way as long as its worthwhile since a new codex wouldn't give me but a little bit more extra material whereas PA at least has some lore to read and other items people might find amusing.

Oh I understand. The CSM book was fairly good actually.

But again, its not a full update when there's tons of armies that straight up need a full update. I don't know why they're faffing around this way because it will prolong the pain for a lot of armies that weren't very good even before marines 2.0 came onto the scene

Karol wrote:

Gordoape wrote:

Cheeslord wrote:
So, you are saying that people do not need to buy the books for the rules? Should they get the rules some other way, e.g. illegal copying of them? Group buying in clubs? Apologies for being stupid, but I must be missing something, for if this is a "silly charade" then the solution must be obvious.

Mark.

I mean... yes? You’re clearly playing dumb here. The rules are available by download, by sharing with others, or via apps like BattleScribe. The majority of players actually do use these resources rather than buying new books. I personally buy the books because I like reading the lore and looking at the pictures in paper. But if it was a financial hardship for me I would not.

Yeah, I will just waltz in to the store and inform the store owner, that I am not ordering the CA book, because I will just print out the GK rules. To that the store owners anwsers is going to be that I will not get to play at his store then.

I mean that store owner would deserve to go out of business for such an answer imo. In my experience, it's pretty common for a store to have communal rulebooks and they'll look the other way if you bring in rules that you obviously printed off a download.

Smart stores will be more interested in keeping things approachable and friendly than protecting GWs IP

Someone rumored that codexes on the weaker end will get more out of PA. Tyranids will be another good test. I'm actually excited to see them get adaptations back.

Yeah I hope so.

I also don't think anything should hit the power level of 2.0 marines + their supplements. That's just crazy power creep, and they should find ways to tone down marines rather than bring everyone up to that height.

The PA CSM and the new Sisters codex are an example of where I hope things will be heading. Eldar's PA1 and the Marine supplements, not so much.