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Gadzilla666 wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Can we all agree, Logan on Storm Rider pts drop is a net gain for everyone ? Santa, your time has come, again. Sleigh all in the name of the all Father !! Then deliver unto the enemy coal, for they were very bad.

Well it is officially the Christmas season.

Guess chaos and xenos were bad this year.

Yes and I am sorry about that, but it seems GW have a nice and naughty list. I mean just ask the orks in Orktober, seems all they got were the tricks and smelling of feet and nothing at all good to eat.

Yoyoyo wrote:

Dumb Smart Guy wrote:
I mean you've just described the dominant playstyle of 8th.

It's not really surprising that people are gonna think in those terms. Maybe the design of the edition is just bad if it flattens the outcomes and differences with a bunch of reroll auras

That was intentional and I completely understand, people want to win of course. But it doesn't mean we should embrace the playstyle if we consider it bad design. An ostensibly social game being predictably decided on stovepiped, list-building min-maxing at home and P2W model purchases rather than interactions between the players is gonna be a disaster.

yeah, and steroids are bad, there for sportsmen never use them. What is next, no stealing in office and no funelling lucrative contracts to family members?

The game costs too much for people to risk buying in to a bad army, and hoping that others will buy in to a bad one too. You practily require a total noob with knowladge buy in to an army with a limited budget, for someone to end up with a new bad army. The only other way to get a bad army is to own a good one and GW nerfing it to death. But then good luck getting any sympathy from people you were beatting for months.


Still no GK page leaked, only the weapon stuff we share with sisters and inquisition. Makes me anxious.

Karol wrote:
yeah, and steroids are bad, there for sportsmen never use them. What is next, no stealing in office and no funelling lucrative contracts to family members?

If you want to be respected -- no, you don't use steroids, steal from your work, or engage in nepotism.

What kind of bizarre argument is that to justify FOTM nonsense in 40k? I assume you're playing for fun rather than because you need to win tourney payouts to feed your kids.

Karol wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:

Dumb Smart Guy wrote:
I mean you've just described the dominant playstyle of 8th.

It's not really surprising that people are gonna think in those terms. Maybe the design of the edition is just bad if it flattens the outcomes and differences with a bunch of reroll auras

That was intentional and I completely understand, people want to win of course. But it doesn't mean we should embrace the playstyle if we consider it bad design. An ostensibly social game being predictably decided on stovepiped, list-building min-maxing at home and P2W model purchases rather than interactions between the players is gonna be a disaster.

yeah, and steroids are bad, there for sportsmen never use them. What is next, no stealing in office and no funelling lucrative contracts to family members?

The game costs too much for people to risk buying in to a bad army, and hoping that others will buy in to a bad one too. You practily require a total noob with knowladge buy in to an army with a limited budget, for someone to end up with a new bad army. The only other way to get a bad army is to own a good one and GW nerfing it to death. But then good luck getting any sympathy from people you were beatting for months.


Still no GK page leaked, only the weapon stuff we share with sisters and inquisition. Makes me anxious.

You're so freaking jaded Karol it's hilarious. GW has already told us Strike Squads are becoming 4 pts cheaper, probably all your other units are getting the same or bigger drops.

Yoyoyo wrote:
There's an interesting subset of CSM players who are staunchly opposed to any kind of risk/reward mechanic.

No psychic powers, no assaulting (because you might fail charges), no summoning, definitely no daemon weapons... basically the ideal is to set up a gunline with full rerolls and passive army-wide bonuses, and take as much randomness out of the game as possible.

I assume this has something to do with the pathology of loss aversion. Still, is it not a little bizarre to involve yourself so deeply with an army called Chaos when you have such deep repugnance towards any kind of unpredictability in the first place?

Competitive play has always resolved around removing randomness where possible because you need to win multiple games in a row and for that you need consistency.

Some ability to lessen it is fine, problem is GW has gone well overboard this edition by giving away to many means.

 vict0988 wrote:

You're so freaking jaded Karol it's hilarious. GW has already told us Strike Squads are becoming 4 pts cheaper, probably all your other units are getting the same or bigger drops.

that is just termintors and strikes, and it would be interesting, if other factions didn't get point drops for buckets of units too. GK were worse then other armies, before GW started doing 2.0 books. If all armies get point drops, then it would be as if no one got point drops. Last year it was the same way. GK said that GK point drops are going to be huge, that multiple units are going to get them, and in the end it was armies like tau and IG that got the best point drops. Isn't just a GK thing either. necron players already saw their point drops, and they don't seem to be extremly happy about them.

Then there is a more personal gripe I have. My army has one 5 man unit of strikes, there rest is in termintor armour, and termintors aren't getting the same kind of point drop as strike do. So I would have to buy a lot of boxs to actually use the point drops to full effect. And if I had the money for it, I would never spend them on GK. Instead of buying 6 boxs of strikes, I would buy a space marine army. Same or similar money, much better rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yoyoyo wrote:

Karol wrote:
yeah, and steroids are bad, there for sportsmen never use them. What is next, no stealing in office and no funelling lucrative contracts to family members?

If you want to be respected -- no, you don't use steroids, steal from your work, or engage in nepotism.

What kind of bizarre argument is that to justify FOTM nonsense in 40k? I assume you're playing for fun rather than because you need to win tourney payouts to feed your kids.

You don't do or follow professional sports or politics do you?
And it is not a bizzar argument. To me the bizzar argument is that, just because a rule is bad for people with not top tier armies or books, others are sudddenly going to not use the best options that exist. There is zero chance of that happening. And I say it as someone whose army is clearly one of the worse in 8th ed.
Ah and I don't play tournaments either, neither do most people I play against. I mean maybe it is different in countries where a months salary can buy multiple armies, but here the avarge is 450$. If I went, and I actualy did following the advice given to me on this very forum, to ask for people to use bad models to play against my army, the reactions ranged from ignore to laughing.

Karol wrote:
You don't do or follow professional sports or politics do you?

Sure. Does anyone respect Lance Armstrong now?

You've got issues bro.

GK Terminators down 7, Paladins down 6, GMNDK down 20 and NDK down 30. GW doesn't hate you, they're just a bit incompetent sometimes and they can't wrap their heads around how a balanced game might be best for everyone.

What do Chaos players think about all the points drops there? Seems really nice to me for generic chaos/black legion.

Gordoape wrote:
What do Chaos players think about all the points drops there? Seems really nice to me for generic chaos/black legion.

Nothing, i doubt it will pan out, considering the general drops overall.
Infact i doubt gw s capability.

Also r&h remained absolutely unchanged.

Gordoape wrote:
What do Chaos players think about all the points drops there? Seems really nice to me for generic chaos/black legion.

is there a compiled list of these somewhere? I don't plan to do much in 40k since it's still a clusterfeth but I spent a few hundred when the new chaos stuff came out so the drops may let be build a serviceable if causal army I can sometimes use in friendly games.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gordoape wrote:
What do Chaos players think about all the points drops there? Seems really nice to me for generic chaos/black legion.

Nothing, i doubt it will pan out, considering the general drops overall.
Infact i doubt gw s capability.

Also r&h remained absolutely unchanged.

There's really not that many drops overall though, nothing like last year. For example, Marines got no changes and Guard got very few. CSM may have gotten more than any other faction. Not to say that they didn't deserve it of course. Drukhari took a couple nerfs and that's it.

Some of these units are probably still not competitive, some are now really good (Obliterators) and some it's not really clear to me (Abbadon). It's nice to see Chaos Marines down 2 points even if they're probably still no good.

Here's the list:

DP with Wings 155 (-15)
Dark Apostle 72 (-28)
Master of Executions 60 (-10)
Master of Possession 80 (-10)
Sorcerer 80 (-10)
Sorcerer in Terminator Armour 100 (-2)
Sorcerer with Jump Pack 108 (-4)
Cultists 4 (-1)
Chaos Space Marines 11 (-2)
Chosen 12 (-2)
Fallen 11 (-3)
Greater Possessed 60 (-10)
Khorn Berserkers 15 (-1)
Noise Marines 13 (-2)
Possessed 17 (-3)
Terminators 23 (-3)
Chaos Spawn 20 (-5)
Warp Talons 9 (-3)
Noctilith Crown 80 (-20)
Chaos Land Raider 180 (-20)
Chaos Predator 85 (-5)
Forgefiend 80 (-20)
Maulerfiend 110 (-10)
Obliterators 95 (-20)
Venomcrawler 115 (-15)
Chaos Rhino 65 (-5)
Khorn Lord of Skulls 315 (-65)
Plaguebearers 8 (+1)
Abaddon 210 (-30)
Fabius Bile 80 (-10)
Haarken 92 (-23)
Weapons:

Balaflamer 20 (-10)
Blastmaster 12 (-8)
Daemongore cannon 50 (-21)
Hades gatling cannon 90 (-94)
Ichor cannon 25 (-33)
Magma cutter 6 (-10)
Skullhurler 60 (-38)
Warpflamer 8 (-2)
Helbrutefist 20/30 (-10/-10)
Lightning claws 6/10 (-2/-2)
Power scourge 25 (-10)
Thunder hammer (character) 40 (+19)

I am still flabergasted why the WORSE CULTISTS remain 5 pts in the worse army...
Like why?
Also why not do something for the fw indexes in general...

Huh looks like nearly everything I have went down. That's a good thing I guess?

Wayniac wrote:
Huh looks like nearly everything I have went down. That's a good thing I guess?

Haha yeah I know that this forum is fully committed to 100% doom and gloom all the time, but I mentioned CSM because on their face the changes look pretty comprehensive. Obviously going against SM is a big hill to climb but there's a meta aside from playing Space Marines.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I am still flabergasted why the WORSE CULTISTS remain 5 pts in the worse army...
Like why?
Also why not do something for the fw indexes in general...

Oh they DID! The fething ASTREUS dropped 100.

Not fellblade. Not falchion. Not even typhon or Cerberus.

The fething ASTREUS.

Wayniac wrote:
Huh looks like nearly everything I have went down. That's a good thing I guess?

Buy more minis to play the same size game?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Huh looks like nearly everything I have went down. That's a good thing I guess?

Buy more minis to play the same size game?

At this rate 2000 points will look like apocalypse by next year.

If things become too cheap we can just go down to 1850 again, I don't really see it being a huge issue. The bigger issue IMO is the lack of granularity between 3-5 pts.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I am still flabergasted why the WORSE CULTISTS remain 5 pts in the worse army...
Like why?
Also why not do something for the fw indexes in general...

Oh they DID! The fething ASTREUS dropped 100.

Not fellblade. Not falchion. Not even typhon or Cerberus.

The fething ASTREUS.

I am done.
Screw that.

Anybody seen the reviews for pa3? It's basically a ba codex. It even has points.

Think of that when you're looking at your scraps for other factions in pa.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Huh looks like nearly everything I have went down. That's a good thing I guess?

Buy more minis to play the same size game?

At this rate 2000 points will look like apocalypse by next year.

Given the existence of fliers, super heavies, primarchs etc. I think it already does.

 vipoid wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Huh looks like nearly everything I have went down. That's a good thing I guess?

Buy more minis to play the same size game?

At this rate 2000 points will look like apocalypse by next year.

Given the existence of fliers, super heavies, primarchs etc. I think it already does.

This is why my lgs mostly plays at 1000. Makes it harder to fit the really big stuff in a list and keeps the games to a more reasonable length.

The Newman wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Huh looks like nearly everything I have went down. That's a good thing I guess?

Buy more minis to play the same size game?

At this rate 2000 points will look like apocalypse by next year.

Given the existence of fliers, super heavies, primarchs etc. I think it already does.

This is why my lgs mostly plays at 1000. Makes it harder to fit the really big stuff in a list and keeps the games to a more reasonable length.

Low should be limited to 2000+.

So Chaos Spawn are 20 points for 5 wounds at T5... wow.

I mean, maybe in ITC with some secondaries they aren't worth it but outside that , I see them as great units to just annoy your opponent, tie down stuff, etc... 300 points for 75 R5 wounds.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I am still flabergasted why the WORSE CULTISTS remain 5 pts in the worse army...
Like why?
Also why not do something for the fw indexes in general...

Oh they DID! The fething ASTREUS dropped 100.

Not fellblade. Not falchion. Not even typhon or Cerberus.

The fething ASTREUS.

I am done.
Screw that.

Cultists dropped to 4.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I enjoyed my gsc being half decent after the codex while it lasted. I guess someone killed a space marine with an aberrant at gw HQ while they were making the points changes lol.

+15 points for a fething stop sign, +3pts for aberrant bodies, doubled the cost of demo charges, hefty whack to Keler...but hey I guess that 49% win rate was just too op.

But hey now you can spend more dollars than points on Ridge runners. Woooo, another gsc unit below the 1$/pt ratio!!

the_scotsman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I am still flabergasted why the WORSE CULTISTS remain 5 pts in the worse army...
Like why?
Also why not do something for the fw indexes in general...

Oh they DID! The fething ASTREUS dropped 100.

Not fellblade. Not falchion. Not even typhon or Cerberus.

The fething ASTREUS.

I am done.
Screw that.

Cultists dropped to 4.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well, I enjoyed my gsc being half decent after the codex while it lasted. I guess someone killed a space marine with an aberrant at gw HQ while they were making the points changes lol.

+15 points for a fething stop sign, +3pts for aberrant bodies, doubled the cost of demo charges, hefty whack to Keler...but hey I guess that 49% win rate was just too op.

But hey now you can spend more dollars than points on Ridge runners. Woooo, another gsc unit below the 1$/pt ratio!!

He was referring to cultists in r&h.

Yeah R&H not being touched is pretty stupid. Good thing the leaks make getting what you need easy to procure because I'm thinking I'm not giving them a cent for this year's CA.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah R&H not being touched is pretty stupid. Good thing the leaks make getting what you need easy to procure because I'm thinking I'm not giving them a cent for this year's CA.

The whole dropping almost every low except the hellforged/relic ones has me seriously thinking of just going all battlescribe all the time.

 Galas wrote:
So Chaos Spawn are 20 points for 5 wounds at T5... wow.

I mean, maybe in ITC with some secondaries they aren't worth it but outside that , I see them as great units to just annoy your opponent, tie down stuff, etc... 300 points for 75 R5 wounds.

Yea I quite liked spawn at 25 even if grotesques were better.

Also that apostle price is more palatable