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They already are.

Yoyoyo wrote:

 NurglesR0T wrote:
I'd prefer the same. As it it stands right now Marks are mostly useless.

There is a bit of a problem in that unmarked units would be at a disadvantage.

Give unmarked units another arbitrary buff to match, maybe to reflect their discipline in not giving in to 1 god, they get reroll 1's with ranged weapons if they didn't move or melee weapons if they charge?

As far as I can tell there has always been a salacious element of the 40k chaos fans, going all the way back to the 2nd ed codex.

I think it is cool that people are so enthused about getting into character for their chosen faction. Really harks back to those early rpg inspired days!

"Those darned Imperials get everything we deserve while we are stuck in an eternal hell. One day we'll ride out and teach them! Take back control of the empire that couldn't have been forged without our suffering!"

how about a CSM army gets a "blessing of X" if their entire army is dedicated and marked to a specific god? so if your entire army is Khorne you get a "blessing of Khorne" if it's all nurgle you get a "blessing of nurgle" etc. the down side is obvious, you can run slaanish oblits, khorne bezerkers etc all togerther and thus are restricted in terms of strats, relics etc

BrianDavion wrote:
how about a CSM army gets a "blessing of X" if their entire army is dedicated and marked to a specific god? so if your entire army is Khorne you get a "blessing of Khorne" if it's all nurgle you get a "blessing of nurgle" etc. the down side is obvious, you can run slaanish oblits, khorne bezerkers etc all togerther and thus are restricted in terms of strats, relics etc

Ya know, considering how well the mark locked ones do, you think that is a good idea?

 Roknar wrote:
We lost all mounts, all bike characters and the new characters we get are STILL on foot.

This might be a silly question, but aren't the index options allowed?

 Fluid_Fox wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
We lost all mounts, all bike characters and the new characters we get are STILL on foot.

This might be a silly question, but aren't the index options allowed?

Index options cease to exist and will collected in "Wahrammer Legends" very soon. they will get a fixed points value that will never be reviewed and are not recommended for any competitive play.

 Fluid_Fox wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
We lost all mounts, all bike characters and the new characters we get are STILL on foot.

This might be a silly question, but aren't the index options allowed?

With the introduction of the legend catgory, you can assume that it will be taken as serious as the SUGESTION for the RO3, e.g. not allowed and not updated.

BrianDavion wrote:
how about a CSM army gets a "blessing of X" if their entire army is dedicated and marked to a specific god? so if your entire army is Khorne you get a "blessing of Khorne" if it's all nurgle you get a "blessing of nurgle" etc. the down side is obvious, you can run slaanish oblits, khorne bezerkers etc all togerther and thus are restricted in terms of strats, relics etc

What about non aligned armies? Doesn't make sense that a night lords army be dedicated to a chaos god.

If all traitor legions must play like chaos worshipers then all loyalist chapters should play like ultramarines.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 xeen wrote:

My main salt is that other factions are getting the mix and match traits and new psychic powers and we got none of that. And a sorcerer was the model that was released with PA!!!

Speaking as someone who plays DE - a race that got mix & match traits and absolutely nothing else - all I can say is that I am looking at the heaps of new Warlord Traits, Relics, Stratagems etc. that CSMs got with unparalleled envy.

Just one issue.
Only al get a Bonus warlord trait.

However what was done in the first pa was allready preety low from gw.....

Am I getting mixed up then? Because I came across a review of the World Eater stuff in Faith and Fury and they seemed to get 6 extra Warlord Traits. I was under the impression that several of the Chaos factions were getting full lists of Warlord Traits in that book.

 vipoid wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 xeen wrote:

My main salt is that other factions are getting the mix and match traits and new psychic powers and we got none of that. And a sorcerer was the model that was released with PA!!!

Speaking as someone who plays DE - a race that got mix & match traits and absolutely nothing else - all I can say is that I am looking at the heaps of new Warlord Traits, Relics, Stratagems etc. that CSMs got with unparalleled envy.

Just one issue.
Only al get a Bonus warlord trait.

However what was done in the first pa was allready preety low from gw.....

Am I getting mixed up then? Because I came across a review of the World Eater stuff in Faith and Fury and they seemed to get 6 extra Warlord Traits. I was under the impression that several of the Chaos factions were getting full lists of Warlord Traits in that book.

You get more traits but you only have one warlord to give one trait to. No strategem like hero of the chapter or tyrannical court to allow you to give warlord traits to more characters.

That's the complaint.

Gadzilla666 wrote:
You get more traits but you only have one warlord to give one trait to. No strategem like hero of the chapter or tyrannical court to allow you to give warlord traits to more characters.

That's the complaint.

Alpha Legion got it with 'We Are Alpharius', but that really only served to reinforce the 'Why aren't you playing Alpha Legion?' paradigm.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 xeen wrote:

My main salt is that other factions are getting the mix and match traits and new psychic powers and we got none of that. And a sorcerer was the model that was released with PA!!!

Speaking as someone who plays DE - a race that got mix & match traits and absolutely nothing else - all I can say is that I am looking at the heaps of new Warlord Traits, Relics, Stratagems etc. that CSMs got with unparalleled envy.

Just one issue.
Only al get a Bonus warlord trait.

However what was done in the first pa was allready preety low from gw.....

Am I getting mixed up then? Because I came across a review of the World Eater stuff in Faith and Fury and they seemed to get 6 extra Warlord Traits. I was under the impression that several of the Chaos factions were getting full lists of Warlord Traits in that book.

You get more traits but you only have one warlord to give one trait to. No strategem like hero of the chapter or tyrannical court to allow you to give warlord traits to more characters.

That's the complaint.

Oh, now I understand. Yeah, that seems like a right Richard-relocation on GW's part.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
You get more traits but you only have one warlord to give one trait to. No strategem like hero of the chapter or tyrannical court to allow you to give warlord traits to more characters.

That's the complaint.

Alpha Legion got it with 'We Are Alpharius', but that really only served to reinforce the 'Why aren't you playing Alpha Legion?' paradigm.

It's also 1 additional trait.
If traits are supposed to bring us up we'd need accesss to 2-3 of our chosing for all legions.

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2019/11/28/chapter-approved-2019-leak-compilation/

Well, on the plus side it would appear Daemons got some pretty significant (and much needed) points drops.

Also, return of the 4 point cultist...

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2019/11/28/chapter-approved-2019-leak-compilation/

Well, on the plus side it would appear Daemons got some pretty significant (and much needed) points drops.

Also, return of the 4 point cultist...

Oh lovely! Just as the leaked drop for csm made it look like people might actually start playing csm in csm lists!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
You get more traits but you only have one warlord to give one trait to. No strategem like hero of the chapter or tyrannical court to allow you to give warlord traits to more characters.

That's the complaint.

Alpha Legion got it with 'We Are Alpharius', but that really only served to reinforce the 'Why aren't you playing Alpha Legion?' paradigm.

Because we wouldn't want to make the other legions good now would we gw!

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
You get more traits but you only have one warlord to give one trait to. No strategem like hero of the chapter or tyrannical court to allow you to give warlord traits to more characters.

That's the complaint.

Alpha Legion got it with 'We Are Alpharius', but that really only served to reinforce the 'Why aren't you playing Alpha Legion?' paradigm.

Black Legion can do that with a stratagem, if your army contains a sorc, chaos lord, and a dark apostle, all three can take warlord traits for 1 CP.

There's some pretty tasty stuff in psychic awakening now, to be fair.

Does it fix every problem? No. Does it make things better and more interesting. Yes.

CSM are supposed to be the bad guy and bad guys are supposed to lose to the good guys.

Better does not equal good. And interesting can be many things. People find car crashs interesting, doesn't mean car crashs are good.

But they are good. They just aren't the best at this current moment, but they can still win plenty.

Will you only be satisfied if they are the best?

 Ishagu wrote:
Will you only be satisfied if they are the best?

You're such an utterly disingenuous debater here, pretty sure we could explain the obvious problems, you know, the ones that are blatantly apparent to everyone, and you'd still ask why we can't be happy.

Currently, I have to count on roughly 40% of the armies I face (SM) being run by drooling idiots in order to have a shot at not just winning, but actually having an interesting game that doesn't involve being trivially dismissed from the table.

Saying Chaos is looking good right now is like saying you brought the sharpest knife to the gun fight.

Here's the thing. Has anyone here played a game against the new Iron Warriors using the rules in PA2?

I highly doubt it, because there are some seriously strong combinations and abilities there. And with Cultists dropping even more the army can become quite dangerous, having valuable units remain alive.

Will they set the "meta" on fire? Maybe, maybe not. Let's see people using them for a while and see.

How do you know it's strong? Have you played with it?

Yep, some really fun and crafty stuff witn the IW in particular, very strong too. I don't have enough experience with the others to comment yet but there's some juicy looking stuff for each of the legions.

 Ishagu wrote:
Here's the thing. Has anyone here played a game against the new Iron Warriors using the rules in PA2?

I highly doubt it, because there are some seriously strong combinations and abilities there. And with Cultists dropping even more the army can become quite dangerous, having valuable units remain alive.

Will they set the "meta" on fire? Maybe, maybe not. Let's see people using them for a while and see.

You don't need to eat dog gak to know it is going to taste bad.

i'd rather play volleyball with a blindgänger of the swiss army then trust ishagu with anything he says

FERRUMITE wrote:
Honestly, I feel most of us wouldn't be so mad if they hadn't released a Chaos 2.0 codex. If GW just released a Vigilus Ablaze, and now F&F, people wouldn't be as mad. But since they released CSM 2.0, AND THEN DIRECTLY AFTER released SM 2.0, people are RIGHTFULLY upset, because the disparity between the two is absurd given how 2.0 was a glorified reprint. And given that CSM already got their 2.0, most of us have realized this is what we get for the foreseeable future, because we already had our 'update'.

Codexes need to be abandoned. For the long term health of both the game and players wallets, binding up a hard back book and filling it full of often misprinted or out of date rules is absolutely a problem.

Background information, Art, Painting guides, story lore and other things can be bound as "collector" books and sold to those who want them.

Datasheets should be uploaded in PDF (or some other format) to an application with a subscription fee or published for free online. As someone who bought the CSM codex with my new CSM army, I definitely feel as though I got sold a second hand print of something they put zero effort into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishagu wrote:
Here's the thing. Has anyone here played a game against the new Iron Warriors using the rules in PA2?

I highly doubt it, because there are some seriously strong combinations and abilities there. And with Cultists dropping even more the army can become quite dangerous, having valuable units remain alive.

Will they set the "meta" on fire? Maybe, maybe not. Let's see people using them for a while and see.

I have. Played IW against my Black Legion. Spanked the IW player in two turns. Laughed all the way across the table as Abbadon took not a single wound and thrashed anything he came within 6 inches of. IW blow, as do all the CSM chapters.

 Togusa wrote:

FERRUMITE wrote:
Honestly, I feel most of us wouldn't be so mad if they hadn't released a Chaos 2.0 codex. If GW just released a Vigilus Ablaze, and now F&F, people wouldn't be as mad. But since they released CSM 2.0, AND THEN DIRECTLY AFTER released SM 2.0, people are RIGHTFULLY upset, because the disparity between the two is absurd given how 2.0 was a glorified reprint. And given that CSM already got their 2.0, most of us have realized this is what we get for the foreseeable future, because we already had our 'update'.

Codexes need to be abandoned. For the long term health of both the game and players wallets, binding up a hard back book and filling it full of often misprinted or out of date rules is absolutely a problem.

Background information, Art, Painting guides, story lore and other things can be bound as "collector" books and sold to those who want them.

Datasheets should be uploaded in PDF (or some other format) to an application with a subscription fee or published for free online. As someone who bought the CSM codex with my new CSM army, I definitely feel as though I got sold a second hand print of something they put zero effort into.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ishagu wrote:
Here's the thing. Has anyone here played a game against the new Iron Warriors using the rules in PA2?

I highly doubt it, because there are some seriously strong combinations and abilities there. And with Cultists dropping even more the army can become quite dangerous, having valuable units remain alive.

Will they set the "meta" on fire? Maybe, maybe not. Let's see people using them for a while and see.

I have. Played IW against my Black Legion. Spanked the IW player in two turns. Laughed all the way across the table as Abbadon took not a single wound and thrashed anything he came within 6 inches of. IW blow, as do all the CSM chapters.

Spoiler warning: Your opponent was bad.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
how about a CSM army gets a "blessing of X" if their entire army is dedicated and marked to a specific god? so if your entire army is Khorne you get a "blessing of Khorne" if it's all nurgle you get a "blessing of nurgle" etc. the down side is obvious, you can run slaanish oblits, khorne bezerkers etc all togerther and thus are restricted in terms of strats, relics etc

What about non aligned armies? Doesn't make sense that a night lords army be dedicated to a chaos god.

If all traitor legions must play like chaos worshipers then all loyalist chapters should play like ultramarines.

It isn’t mandatory... you are paying a price for that bonus. If you want noise marines and sonic dreads to bring the Dakka, for instance, and you want Slaanesh god aligned bonuses, you lose access to Berzerkers. If you want Khornate bonuses, you lose the ability to warp time your zerkers ala sorcerer. Or you can trade what could equate to a second legion trait to soup your list with Berzerkers sorcerers and Slaanesh noise marines/sonic dread/chosen with plasma/terminators with plasma to double tap plasma and fling Berzerkers across the field... there are ups and downs to both list building strategies and no one is forcing you to go either way. And if something like that was implemented, I agree that undecided perks for a pure undivided detachment should be implemented as well.