Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is my answer to Imp Fists, IH, and the rest of the meta's swing in the power armored direction. Now that I have made CA19 points adjustments, how shall I sharpen this up? Please correct if I've posted points incorrectly. This is for ITC tourney level matched play.

World Eaters battalion
Chaos Lord - Chain Axe
Chaos Lord - Chain Axe - upgrade to the GoreFather Axe ( in Psy-Awake: Fury, I think )

Bloodletters x20
Bloodletters x10
Bloodletters x10

World Eaters battalion
Dark Apostle
Dark Apostle
x9 Khorne Berserkers, Chain Axes x9, icon of Wrath
x9 Khorne Berserkers, Chain Axes x9, icon of Wrath
x9 Khorne Berserkers, Chain Axes x9

x5 Warp Talons (so cheap now!)
x5 Warp Talons

x3 rhinos

Night Lords Battalion
Sorcerer with Jump Pack, f-axe
Sorcerer with Jump Pack, f - stave
x10 cultists (on sale! 20% off! )
x10 cultists
x5 CSM

1930 in points. So, where to spend? Another x5 CSM that dies to wyverns or Eliminators? Upgrade some weapons, plasma pistol here or there? They're Night Lords, so they have a -1 Ld bubble.

IIRC, a Night Lord Sorcerer, *no* Jump Pack can't ride in a Khorne rhino. And Smite and the powers need mobility, so the wings the NL sorcerers shall keep. Do I shave points somewhere to bring in 75 points of Raptors, adding their leadership penalty to the Night Lords' leadership trashing-trait? With so much h2h going on, -3 and more leadership bubble might be all that's needed.

Daemon summoning ought to be easy. I've worked out how to disembark characters, turn 1, move & advance and have the rhinos protect them as much as possible. Yeah, eliminators, I know. But Mathhammer sez even 9 Elims should not kill 4 characters reliably in one turn. It's possible, but rather unlikely.

So Turn 2 threat over load:
No Overwatch Warp Talons will charge, 3 units of BLs will charge with +1 inch, and 2+ units of Khorne Bs with a rhino disembark and reroll charge. I figure most lists can kill a rhino and its contents in one turn's shooting. A 2nd rhino? Sure. But not the 2nd unit of Khorne Bs.

I see my list struggles to kill T7 vehicles & Knights, unless I can hit a vehicle with 2 or 3 units. S6 chain axes is going to wound on 5+ anyway. And then, VofLW to bring wound rolls back to 4+ ... on one unit.

First of summoning. You only got 70 points so another 10man letters I guess.

Second. Why not take a CD detachment with your letters so you can deep strike and give them 3D6 +1 on the charge?
Taking daemons in a csm detachment breaks the legion and your not having either locus or trait. You generally want 20man letters hitting your target but if just one dies you be hitting on 3+ and not 2+. So take a 30man is my recommendation.

Third. Why not have your warp Talons in NL detachment for deep strike, stratagem for 3D6 charge and deny overwatch.

Fourth. Why two apostles? -1 to hit rhinos or what? If they ride inside you can’t cast his prayers until next turn as it happens at the beginning of battle round. I would go with exalted champions for reroll failed wound rolls. This and VotLW on 9 zerkers will kill a Knight or make a serious dent in if.

Why no DP? They are brutal and if they get this reduced points even more so! A CD khorne DP with wings and relic skullreaver and you smash Knights like nothing!
Tau forgeworld KX139 got charge by mine this weekend and I rolled ok but not good, still did 18 wounds on it and 5 was MW despite his invul save.

Sorry if I’m too hard but it’s my opinion.

Yeah as Tazberry says there's a lot of this list that is upside down.

In addition to the above you really need to put ypur warp talons in your night lord detachment. They have the abilty to get a 3d6 charge and can stop a unit falling back. If you make them mark of khorne the work really well with a khorne daemon herald with the crimson crown. Gives them, +1 str, reroll charges and extra attacks on wound rolls of 6+ (5+ with veterans of the long war).

Also if you make one of those sorcerers a jump pack lord with two lightning claws, give him killing fury and rapacious talons and he'll get up to 15 attacks that'll kill iron hands and imperial fists for fun!

Tazberry wrote:
First of summoning. You only got 70 points so another 10man letters I guess.

Second. Why not take a CD detachment with your letters so you can deep strike and give them 3D6 +1 on the charge?
Taking daemons in a csm detachment breaks the legion

Actually, in the FAQ, it doesn't.

Q: If I take a unit of DAEMONS in a Chaos Space Marines Detachment, do I lose my Legion Trait?
A:
Yes. However, if you summon a unit of DAEMONS and add them to your army, doing so does not affect your Legion Trait.

So, that isn't an issue. Thanks, though. (not being a douche)

Tazberry wrote:
and your not having either locus or trait. You generally want 20man letters hitting your target but if just one dies you be hitting on 3+ and not 2+. So take a 30man is my recommendation.

I ran the 30 BloodLetter bomb. It was great. The rest of that list sucked, but that's 18 months ago.

Tazberry wrote:
Third. Why not have your warp Talons in NL detachment for deep strike, stratagem for 3D6 charge and deny overwatch.

What is that Strategem and where is it?

Tazberry wrote:
Fourth. Why two apostles? -1 to hit rhinos or what? If they ride inside you can’t cast his prayers until next turn as it happens at the beginning of battle round. I would go with exalted champions for reroll failed wound rolls. This and VotLW on 9 zerkers will kill a Knight or make a serious dent in if.

The list has eveolved and you'll see shortly. You spotted the same things I did...

Tazberry wrote:
Why no DP? They are brutal and if they get this reduced points even more so! A CD khorne DP with wings and relic skullreaver and you smash Knights like nothing!
Tau forgeworld KX139 got charge by mine this weekend and I rolled ok but not good, still did 18 wounds on it and 5 was MW despite his invul save.

Sorry if I’m too hard but it’s my opinion.

Not too hard at all!

It's a Khorne Thread! An EF*********, FRAKKING KHRONE THREAD!!!!
Soft words are not spoken here.


That said, good input, await version 2.0.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I tossed the daemon summoning. And Night Lords. That hurt, as I wanna try their mechanics, but in learning a new army, simplifying things helps, less mechanics to learn. I've been playing sicky space elves for a very long time. And it was Daemons and CSM before that.

Battalion #1, World Eaters
Dark Apostle
Exalted Champ
Chaos Lord, Gorefather relic

3x9 Khrone Bs - Chain Axes & chainswords
x3 rhinos

Battalion #2, World Eaters
Dark Apostle
Exalted Champ
Chaos Lord, wings, Warlord trait Violent Urgency (+1 on the charge roll)

3x9 Khrone Bs - Chain Axes & chainswords
x3 rhinos

2x5 Warp Talons

1995

It's the Eliminators that I'm protecting against. Much of this army's buff comes from 2 of the 3 characters. So?
a. toss 2 characters, like the Chaos Lords and stick with the D.A.s and E.C.s. In ITC that helps pare down secondary objective points. This means adding ... heck, I dunno. 150+ points worth of something**
b. wings make the characters far more useful, but keeps them out of rhinos, making them vulnerable to Eliminator fire.



**One of you asked, "Why not a DP?"
A: Eliminators. My local meta is rife with them



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 small_gods wrote:
Yeah as Tazberry says there's a lot of this list that is upside down.

In addition to the above you really need to put ypur warp talons in your night lord detachment. They have the abilty to get a 3d6 charge and can stop a unit falling back. If you make them mark of khorne the work really well with a khorne daemon herald with the crimson crown. Gives them, +1 str, reroll charges and extra attacks on wound rolls of 6+ (5+ with veterans of the long war).

I had that DP in my daemons list, nearly 2 years ago. Yep, easily swats a Knight.

But this list seem to be rhino bound.

 small_gods wrote:
Also if you make one of those sorcerers a jump pack lord with two lightning claws, give him killing fury and rapacious talons and he'll get up to 15 attacks that'll kill iron hands and imperial fists for fun!

Psychic Awakening II? I ? Where are those rules?

Yes that’s true. But your previous list included bloodletters in the detachment and thus breaking it. Summoned units are not included in the list as you choose unit after summoning roll.

The new stratagems and relics and warlord traits are in the “Faith and fury” book. You can just google it with chaos to get access too everything in it as it’s all spoilers. (Felt a bit cheated after buying it)


I like the new list. Simple and damn straight forward! WE warp talons will be great, it’s just more easy too make the charge in a NL.
If you want to save some points you can have a 20man zerkers and use WE new stratagem “forward operatives” (not the real name but can’t remember) to move 9” before battle begins just like alpha legions. It might not do you or your list any good but can be worth a thought.

Tazberry wrote:
Yes that’s true. But your previous list included bloodletters in the detachment and thus breaking it. Summoned units are not included in the list as you choose unit after summoning roll.

Even though I'm dropping them at present, I'd still like to nail this concept down. For matched play, since the points need to be paid for, it just makes sense to be able to do this, and have the 3 BL units be part of a CSM detachment. Care to cite where it's stated in detachment or FoC that these can't count to a battalion?

Well, one of the LVO judges (and thus FLG/ITC judges) will be at the local game store. I'll see what he says.

Tazberry wrote:
The new stratagems and relics and warlord traits are in the “Faith and fury” book. You can just google it with chaos to get access too everything in it as it’s all spoilers. (Felt a bit cheated after buying it)

Yeah, the F&F rules are everywhere, but wouldja mind naming which one gets the Night Lords 3d6? For the last few nights, I've read through every online/pirate book/pdf, the ForgeWorlds, and such, so it's hard to remember where everything is.

I still didn't find where Hatefull Assault is actually stated as a thing, except Wahapedia**. This is kinda stupid to admit, but did a 2.0 ChaosSM codex get dropped this year? Cuz I have the one the was released 2 years ago and maybe that's why I'm not finding H.A.

Tazberry wrote:
I like the new list. Simple and damn straight forward! WE warp talons will be great, it’s just more easy too make the charge in a NL.

Wouldja please name the NL strat? I might be able to make a battalion or patrol work.

Tazberry wrote:
If you want to save some points you can have a 20man zerkers and use WE new stratagem “forward operatives” (not the real name but can’t remember) to move 9” before battle begins just like alpha legions. It might not do you or your list any good but can be worth a thought.

I read that one. But if going first doesn't happen, then that's an easy flush of 300+ points down the drain, as most Imp Fist, IH or other won't even blink to blow away 20 T4, 3+ 1W models. Heck, one 10 man crew of intercessors with the regular character buffs ought to do it to where total morale failure is a mathematical certainty. On ITC missions 2, 4 & 6, with the way deployment works, it'd be reasonable to use this, just sweating a "Seize the Initiative."


**Does Wahapedia actually count as *actual* rules? i don't think so because their point values aren't updated to the CA19. I mean, is GW actually running that site?

It the summoning rule. You build you list and have points over. Like building a 2000p list and only have 1500p in your army, so you can summon unit worth of 500 points. As you don’t know what you can summon until you make the roll. You make the roll and see what unit you want.

So, as the unit do not exist until you have made the summoning, you can’t include it in a list.


I don’t mind at all.
NL 3D6 charge is called “Raptor strike” and cost 1Cp
NL +2 too charge if you stand in terrain is called “From the night” for 1Cp
NL deny all but vehicle and titanic too fall back is called “We have come for you” for 1Cp

They are the best imo for NL.

Yeah they did release a codex 2.0 but it was the biggest letdown ever and you do not need it. It only got a few new daatasheets like Lord Discordant, greater possessed and Master of possession.
Hateful assault is in the new book F&F as are the rule “Malicious volleys” (same at bolter discipline).

Yeah I know. Your list vs your opponents and one unit of footsloging is not optimized but I just wanted to say that it exists. I’m thinking of using it but in alpha Legion as I then can make them untargeteble.

Just one thought. How are you going about shooting stuff in the air or on top of buildings? Can be hard to get them. I like the new list new. Blood for the blood god!!

Also NL have been handed one of the best stratergems in the game, vox scream. For 2 CP you can turn off all aura abilities from a unit. So you can turn that chapter master into an expensive tactical marine and apart from gsc and drukari there's nothing they can do about it!

My alpha legion warptalons are getting repainted this week!

Tazberry wrote:
It the summoning rule. You build you list and have points over. Like building a 2000p list and only have 1500p in your army, so you can summon unit worth of 500 points. As you don’t know what you can summon until you make the roll. You make the roll and see what unit you want.
So, as the unit do not exist until you have made the summoning, you can’t include it in a list.

That's what I got from the LVO judges. It still seems like a dumb exception.

Tazberry wrote:

I don’t mind at all.
NL 3D6 charge is called “Raptor strike” and cost 1Cp
NL +2 too charge if you stand in terrain is called “From the night” for 1Cp
NL deny all but vehicle and titanic too fall back is called “We have come for you” for 1Cp

They are the best imo for NL.

... yer awesome.

Tazberry wrote:
Yeah they did release a codex 2.0 but it was the biggest letdown ever and you do not need it. It only got a few new daatasheets like Lord Discordant, greater possessed and Master of possession.

*That's* where disco lords came from. Okay.

Tazberry wrote:

Hateful assault is in the new book F&F as are the rule “Malicious volleys” (same at bolter discipline).

I found it in a big FAQ. And ... wait. CSM get bolter discipline? "Malicious Volleys" is scraping the barrel as far as bad names. Now they just need primaris 2W equivalents.

Tazberry wrote:
Yeah I know. Your list vs your opponents and one unit of footsloging is not optimized but I just wanted to say that it exists. I’m thinking of using it but in alpha Legion as I then can make them untargeteble.

Just one thought. How are you going about shooting stuff in the air or on top of buildings? Can be hard to get them.

I have not yet crossed that bridge. I only just scored 22 KBs out of the used model case and will be borrowing rhinos. Likely, if you want to keep up with this, I will get in many games for 3 weeks after Xmas. I get a 3 weeks teacher vacation. And can keep you in the loop.

Fliers? That might need to be addressed with Jumping hammer lords or Sorcerers (Smites, too). I don't fancy buying 2 Hell Turkeys.

Latest iteration, and one the I'm likely to be fielding starting next weekend:

World Eaters Battalion #1
Exalted Champ - p axe
Chaos Lord - GoreFather
3x9 Khorne Bs - Chains axes & chainswords
3x9 rhinos

World Eaters Battalion #2
Exalted Champ - p axe
Dark Apostle - p maul
3x9 Khorne Bs - Chains axes & chainswords
3x9 rhinos

Night Lords patrol
Sorceror with Jump - F axe
Cultists x10
x10 Warp Talons

1970 ish in points. What's the better WE set of four characters? One of each, fer sure, but who fills slot #4. The Dark Ap, Lord or Exalted Champ? The ExC's reroll wounds looks better in dishing out punishment, but he's without an Invuln. Who gets to be the Warlord with VIOLENT URGENCY ? I think those are always to be typed in CAPs.

A Dark Ap or a Lord?

There aren't points for a DP and I'm fine going without one for the short duration.

NL yields the Talons getting a 3d6 charge as you pointed out, Taz, and 'We Have Come for You" no fall back tactic. And, you know, a sorcerer.

I still have no real shooting, so fliers will be problematic, but something to look at later on. Eventually, a WE battalion might get reduced to allow oblits as NLs or as EmpKids, for Endless Cocaphony.

Report: Fought Alpha Legion & DG. It was 9 Oblit heavy (2x3 Death Guard Oblits, 1x3 Emp Children Oblits for Endless Cocaphony), some characters, Sloppity, a Lord, a sorcerer. AL & DG, cultists and nurglings. 2 Plague Burst Crawlers.

We beat the crap outta each other, but my list won 27 to 24. As a garage game, helping each other out (him helping me more). A tutorial bout.

Their AL strat that allows a end-of-move shooting, if he goes second, wiped out one rhino and on his turn those KBs died. Using the 2 ITC buildings, I had disembarked KBs set up for T2 charges. I promptly clear the majority of the table on T2, offing the nurglings and some cultists. I got 1 DG Oblit unit in combat, but they've gotten really tough.

My hammer lord and the Gorefather worked the plagueburst crawlers over, but they both exploded, handing out mortals to put nearly every one of my characters down to 1 wound remaining. The Exalted Champ died outright to the PlagueBcrawlers exploding. *sigh* This made my use of the last 3 characters very precious and charging the oblits got complicated/dangerous. So I used my characters to snuff his characters instead.

'Twas prolly my second biggest mistake from making the game a crushing Vic, scoring like 30s to him maybe getting teens. Charging the Oblits looked too scary for any of my 3, 1 wound remaining characters, or a 7 man unit of KHBs. By charging characters instead, I could consolidate into the oblits, and *then* managed a turn of wrap up, before they busted out, again.

1st big mistake was not flanking the rhinos around LOS blocking terrain. Instead I ran 4 up the middle, and shot cultists. Although, popping smoke woulda helped, I think the MathHammer still yields 3 dead rhinos from an average Oblit salvo. And the 2 plagueburst crawlers.

I took out those because he left them too close to LOS-blocking ruins, therefore one got tri-quartered/pinned. And I brought the other to half wounds.

Anyway, all 4 rhinos were gone at the end of his 1st turn, along with almost 2 complete units of KBs. Oblit shooting is nuts, especially since he can reroll one of the Oblit Fleshy-gun dice, usually the amount of damage.

Turns 3, 4 & 5 saw a lot of back and forth, KBs getting sawed down by oblits, who on their 3rd round of combat could get lose and then shoot. They got loose because the 2 spell casters would smite the KBs to only 2 left and then the oblits could Fall Back and shoot with some strategem. I stopped that Smiting non-sense and then the game stayed in Khorne's hands. 2 rhinos held more objectives throughout the game. Warp Talons kept his deep striking Emp Chil Oblits from doing too much (kept them trip pointed).

I never did finish off a whole unit of Oblits. Got a DG down to 1, the other still had 2 dudes, but one limping on 1 wound. An Emp Chill oblit on his knees by game's end.

I had volume for board control, no not volume ... how does one 'term' a rhino fulla KBs? Anyway, KBs control the castle tactic really well.

Turn 6, he had 4 oblits. I had 8 cultists, 6 or so Warp Talons, and 2 rhinos. All my KBs & characters died.

I know that doesn't read too coherently but it's late. Maybe I'll edit it later.

Great recap and awesome to hear that melee armies can win vs the shooting stuff!

Any thoughts on making a change or anything felt a bit off of the rest of the list?

How did the warp talons do? Good enough to be included in the future?

Did the Apostle contribute to the army? Worth its points?

My opponent is really good, good enough to make the top 8 of an LVO, 2 years ago. He wins the monthly RTT often enough, and dominates the top seed/pod of our league. So, I really paid attention in our post game discussion.

Tazberry wrote:
Great recap and awesome to hear that melee armies can win vs the shooting stuff!

Any thoughts on making a change or anything felt a bit off of the rest of the list?

How did the warp talons do? Good enough to be included in the future?

Did the Apostle contribute to the army? Worth its points?

The Dark Apostle, even with his 2 support buddies, still allows for a 1/16th or CP spend to have his buffs fail, and can't start in a rhino to be used. The Chaos Lord's reroll 1 bubble nearly does Dark Zealotry's job anyway, but without needing to start on the table, nor dice dependent. I know the Soul Tearer Portent is really good, especially if there's a Knight or two to deal with, so it's a tough choice to say no, but my next game will be without the D.Apostle.

I misplaced the one D-apostle and he didn't help much, too far away from the enemy castle. And then he died when the 2nd plagueburst crawler went nuclear. Not a real fair test of its potential. Anyway, I think to learn this new army, I'm going to double up on the ECs and keep the mechanisms simpler. For the next game, I'll run 2 smash captains, one wielding GoreFather. I just got a box of Vanguard Assault jumpies, with 4 T-Hammers!, so that's exciting

And then exalted champs as my other 2 HQs. The D-apostle is out for now. But later on, I'd be agreeable to re-explore.

Warp Talons:
Champs. They ate nurglings and moved on to kill 2 oblits with only a loss of 2 or 3 of theirs, through ... 6 fight phases, iirc. Lessee, killed nurglings on t2, got lose and went after the oblits on my t3, so, wow, 8 fights? Turns 3, 4, 5 and 6. I'm thinking the opponent's poor dice rolling helped the WTs.

There was no need to use the "We're coming for you" strat as I was able to tri-point the Emp Children oblits continually. For now, the Night Lord patrol stays. I under used the sorcerer, who got fried by the 2nd PBCrawler on a bad Move on my part. I played Alpha Legion a couple years back, so this ought to be a bicycle I can get back on. I mean, not too different from farseers I've been running for 18 months, right?


2 Jump lords, 1 with GoreFather and the other a t-hammer
3x9 KBs in rhinos, chainaxes and chainswords

2 ECs
3x9 KBs in rhinos as above.

NL patrol, sorcerer, 10 cultists & 8 WTs

- - - - - - - - - -
Next thing to consider, should I eschew goonhammer's advice and skip using chainswords (which didn't do much versus a lot of T5, armor 2 Oblits). Plus, for tightening WYSIWYG standards, I'm not ripping off pistols and converting anyway. Chainswords simply mean another 9 or so swings per salvo in the fight phase. And another 9 for 2nd activation.
Pistols would yield the opportunity to shoot through a screen to better assault the next level of preferred target, in an army pretty without any shooting. Rhino combi-bolters won't do much. Would their pistols contribute at all?

Thoughts?

More:
When a rhino is destroyed, the KBs inside can't assault the next turn ... I think this is a problem. Thoughts?

If i was going to tweek the list I would make more out of the night lords detachment. I'd go with some bikes, they'll clear screen and you'll be able to clear the way for your rhinos a little.

Also if you have 6x KB in rhinos and you face something that is difficult for them (like flyer spam or knights) then they're in trouble.

You could swap the cultists into the WE detachment, drop one unit of KB and have around 9 bikes. They'l be good for using vox scream on turn one also.

Fight #2:

Versus 4 or 5 custodes bikes, 3 Calladius Broken Tanks, 2 character support. A space wolves contingent, 2 drop pods, blood claws in those, the character with 2 dogs, a Wolf Guard, I think.

Vanguard deployment, he goes first, though I tried to seize.

T1 -
Custodes,SW - 1 rhino dies and one unit of KBs gets chopped up. He injured 2 other rhinos.
KB - rhinos move, advance, pop smoke. Characters, too. I eyeballed and measured to screen out the drop pods for pretty much whole deployment zone

T2
C,SW - 3 more rhinos die and groups of KBs get hacked down. One group of Outflanking Blood Claws fail a charge that would have killed jumper captain with GoreFather. I hadn't realized the movement mistake, but got off lucky on his failed charge.
KB - Pull 1 rhino back for inevitable counter strike. Other surviving rhino's KBs get out, and smoke the Bloodclaws on my right, that nearly ate my Smash Captains. Warp Talons deep strike, charge and hurt a Calladus tank, but not enough to kill it, even with Veterans of the Long War. 2 remaining KB unit move up, but are too far for charges.

T3
C,SW - Drop pods fall on my center left; one of his mistakes. I had 1 KB on the center objective and he didn't care to finish him off, so when the DPs arrive T3, they need to be 9" off that. One unit of Blood Claws goes after a KB unit on my far left, and kill em. My Warp Talons die to Custodes bike shooting, another KB crew goes down to Cally shooting. He fails to charge the KBs eating the drop pods.
KB - I do get a charge off on the hurt tank. Last counter-strike KB unit assaults the 2 drop pods, blood claws and there's the Wolf Guard, or which ever one has a reroll wound bubble. That was satisfactory - the characters and BCs die, and then the KBs consolidate into the DPs. Custodes do "Swooping Dive" and kill the 2 KBs that were left after Cally overwatch. The GoreFather doesn't quite kill the tank, so I spend 3 CP to swing again. My THunder Hammer Captain had failed his charge, so had the Exalted Champion.

My NL Sorcerer was placed poorly, again. I think he'll just Deep Strike with the W-Talons from now on as the default deployment.

T4
C,SW - left flank SW character and dogs go after my cultists and home objective, and that h2h fight will last 3 goes. On the right, my 3 characters are left to die in the middle of his castle's shooting. He still hasn't scored a secondary of Recon, btw.
KB - We talk it through as I have no threats to the 2 Cally tanks. My remaining KBs can eat his BloodClaws on the left flank, but there are 2 healthy Callidus tanks and the Custodes bikes. I have the Sorcerer, 3 cultists and KBs out of position to do much. Roughly, the score totals to 30 to 15.

Text batreps are meh, but taking pix when trying out a new list ... hmm. Well, maybe I *should* be doing that. I can re-examine the battle better. Hmmm.


Oh, nevermind the 'not charging the turn a transport dies'. Opponent explained the rule is too nix an exploitation of charging almost dead transports that die in overwatch, allowing passengers to gain a lot of ground to have a shorter charge. So that's a relief.