Why Canis Helix

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**Nightlord1987**

Why do Space Wolves have an extra implant procedure? How is this Sanctioned?

Why dont other Chapters modify their Geneseed (besides Traitors?)

**beast_gts**

My guess is that due to Fenris and it's population being engineered, the Canis Helix is required for the other implants to work properly. It's accepted because it dates back to the time of the Primarch and the Emperor.

**pm713**

Because the Emperor wanted to.

You could argue that it's to make them slightly better than other Marines so they can do their job as executioners.

**Sterling191**

Nightlord1987 wrote:

Why dont other Chapters modify their Geneseed (besides Traitors?)

At least one definitely has tried, with a few other "yeah they probably did that" hinted at obliquely. They all ended in disaster.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Well, each Primarch, and by extension Legion seemed to be designed with some kind of genetic pedeliction.

Hence it seems the Golden Throne was actually for Magnus The Red, the most psychically gifted.

Sadly, due to the scattering and the anarchy that followed, its hard to say exactly what each was intended for.

Horus and Guilliman were likely intended as Elder Statesmen, as both fulfilled that pre-Heresy.

Perurabo and Dorn were about building (not just sieges).

The rest are less clear. Especially poor old Angron, the most abused of the Primarchs (not just by Daddy, though Daddy was the straw that broke the camels back).

**Nightlord1987**

So what about the Terran born Space Wolves? The ones before Leman Russ was found. They must have been stable, if it's the Fenris population that causes their mutations...

Why did it end there?

Bird DNA for Raven Guard?
LION DNA for the Dark Angels?

**beast_gts**

Nightlord1987 wrote:
So what about the Terran born Space Wolves? The ones before Leman Russ was found. They must have been stable, if it's the Fenris population that causes their mutations...

Terran born Marines across all Legions had stability issues - the Wolves had the largest Military Police force because they were almost uncontrollable (while the Thousand Sons kept changing into spawn).

**pm713**

beast_gts wrote:
Nightlord1987 wrote:
So what about the Terran born Space Wolves? The ones before Leman Russ was found. They must have been stable, if it's the Fenris population that causes their mutations...

Terran born Marines across all Legions had stability issues - the Wolves had the largest Military Police force because they were almost uncontrollable (while the Thousand Sons kept changing into spawn).

Two Legions isn't all. I can't think of any other legions with problems resulting from gene-seed.

**Andersp90**

pm713 wrote:
I can't think of any other legions with problems resulting from gene-seed.

Blood angels.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Sadly, due to the scattering and the anarchy that followed, its hard to say exactly what each was intended for.

Two words: thunder warriors..

**BrianDavion**

the Imperial Fists, raven guard and Salamanders also have some notable gene seed flaws. The Imperial Fists are stable but missing an implant or two

**Argive**

Andersp90 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I can't think of any other legions with problems resulting from gene-seed.

Blood angels.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Sadly, due to the scattering and the anarchy that followed, its hard to say exactly what each was intended for.

One word: thunder warriors..

Hey you liar! Thats two words.. Tricked again :(

**Andersp90**

Argive wrote:
Andersp90 wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I can't think of any other legions with problems resulting from gene-seed.

Blood angels.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Sadly, due to the scattering and the anarchy that followed, its hard to say exactly what each was intended for.

One word: thunder warriors..

Hey you liar! Thats two words.. Tricked again :(

Fixed.

**pm713**

So we have three heresy era legions with gene seed problems. So you still can't claim all terran marines had issues.

**RaptorusRex**

Not a "flaw" per say, but Ultramarines gene-seed makes you naturally deferent to authority and prone to adaptation of hierarchies.

**Karhedron**

The Emperor's Children also had serious geneseed deficiencies and were on the brink of being wiped out before Fulgrim was found. After he was reuinted with his Legion, a fresh batch of geneseed was cultured from the Primarch.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The rest are less clear. Especially poor old Angron, the most abused of the Primarchs (not just by Daddy, though Daddy was the straw that broke the camels back).

Angron had the ability to empathically ease the pain of others. He had the potential to be the most compassionate and humane of the Primarchs. Unfortunately the Butchers Nails burned the ability out of his brain.

**BrianDavion**

RaptorusRex wrote:
Not a "flaw" per say, but Ultramarines gene-seed makes you naturally deferent to authority and prone to adaptation of hierarchies.

whats your source on that?

**Sgt_Smudge**

BrianDavion wrote:
RaptorusRex wrote:
Not a "flaw" per say, but Ultramarines gene-seed makes you naturally deferent to authority and prone to adaptation of hierarchies.

whats your source on that?

Agreed, interested to see your source for that claim, beyond that the Ultramarines were a more authoritative Legion.
Under that same logic, was it a Sons of Horus geneseed factor that made them predisposed towards speartip strikes, and the Word Bearers' geneseed factor that made them predisposed to worship?

**Dakka Wolf**

The Canis Helix purpose in the Space Wolves is a leftover from when GW wrote themselves into a corner with the Trefoil Legions and just dumped the storyline.
Maybe they'll pick it up again, maybe not.

Legion VI, Legion XVIII and Legion XX were created in isolation as specialist legions.

Legion VI - Search and destroy.
Amplifying the canid genetic threads of Subject VI the VI Legion has senses enhanced even beyond the normal improvement granted by successful geneseed implantation as well as ferocity and pack mentality that makes them work naturally as a team of hunters.
Field Note: Complaints have arisen that Legion VI have little remaining concern for collateral damage and seem to have a "Take no prisoners" attitude.

Legion XVIII - Protect at all costs.
Modifications on Legion XVIII geneseed has pushed their drive to protect to a higher level than conventional implantations in order to create a more willing guardian than crusader, successful implantation will hopefully create a mentality that takes more pride in successful defense of a target than successful offensive outcomes.
Field Note: Wonderfully successful, it has been noted though that other military branches are viewing any military pairing with Legion XVIII as a "Death Sentence".

Legion XX - Psychic Reinforcement program.
Modifications to geneseed have created an even greater acceptance to psychic indoctrination proceedures among successful implant subjects. Subjects can be made to believe that they are apart of any Legion and they often immediately fall in line with most Legions as if they were born to them.
Field Note: Testing successful, queries are surfacing on the notion of "Sleeper Agents" - I see no issue here, why would we need to infiltrate our own armies.

**BrianDavion**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
RaptorusRex wrote:
Not a "flaw" per say, but Ultramarines gene-seed makes you naturally deferent to authority and prone to adaptation of hierarchies.

whats your source on that?
Agreed, interested to see your source for that claim, beyond that the Ultramarines were a more authoritative Legion.
Under that same logic, was it a Sons of Horus geneseed factor that made them predisposed towards speartip strikes, and the Word Bearers' geneseed factor that made them predisposed to worship?

actually IIRC the first heretic does not that the WORD BEARERS have a predisposition due to their geneseed to tend to have blind loyalty to their primarch, moreso then the norm.

**RaptorusRex**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
RaptorusRex wrote:
Not a "flaw" per say, but Ultramarines gene-seed makes you naturally deferent to authority and prone to adaptation of hierarchies.

whats your source on that?
Agreed, interested to see your source for that claim, beyond that the Ultramarines were a more authoritative Legion.
Under that same logic, was it a Sons of Horus geneseed factor that made them predisposed towards speartip strikes, and the Word Bearers' geneseed factor that made them predisposed to worship?

FW Horus Heresy Book Five. As for the Word Bearers, there's something in The First Heretic about them being like that.

**Nevelon**

RaptorusRex wrote:
Sgt_Smudge wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
RaptorusRex wrote:
Not a "flaw" per say, but Ultramarines gene-seed makes you naturally deferent to authority and prone to adaptation of hierarchies.

whats your source on that?
Agreed, interested to see your source for that claim, beyond that the Ultramarines were a more authoritative Legion.
Under that same logic, was it a Sons of Horus geneseed factor that made them predisposed towards speartip strikes, and the Word Bearers' geneseed factor that made them predisposed to worship?

FW Horus Heresy Book Five. As for the Word Bearers, there's something in The First Heretic about them being like that.

Seconding this for the Ultras. HH Book 5, Tempest, page 71.

The XIIIth Legion's origins lay, as with their fellows, on Terra and the closing years of the Unification Wars. Extant records from this time show the XIII'hLegion's 'Alpha' intake - the test bed raising of several thousand warriors by which its gene-seed's stability and adaptability was judged- was passed firmly within acceptable parameters and with no singular or notable physical mutation beyond the expected pattern, with full functionality of implanted organs to projected specifications. Psycho-organically, initiates were noted to display increased aggression, as was expected, but also a marked tendency towards cohesion and the adoption of hierarchy, alongside an almost pathological dedication to the achievement of an assigned goal, particularly when compared against the psychological profiles of certain other alpha samples such as those of the XIIth and Vth Legion groups, who demonstrated more markedly heightened individualistic and fractious tendencies post-implantation. Although much of what would then transpire for the XIIIth Legion's very early expansion past its test stage has been occluded by layers of the unbreachable secrecy inherent in much of the Emperor’s gene-work, and records lost in the destruction caused on Terra during the great siege, certain facts can still be pieced together and a hypothesis formed.
In terms of recruitment, evidence is apparent for a net being cast across Terra for initiates fortheXIII'\ with intake from areas as diverse as the sub-equatorial maglev clans of Panpocro, the war families of the Saragon Enclave, the proud Midafrik Hive Oligarchy and, most latterly, the anthropophagic tribes of the Caucasus Wastes. As varied in culture and origin as these groups were, they all had one factor in common; their violent and often bitter resistance to the later stages of Unification, a resistance broken ultimately in each case not by negotiated surrender but near annihilation, with in some situations little remaining save interned refugees and orphaned populations left by the savage conflicts which had brought these peoples to heel. It was this which led to the first informal cognomen by which the XIII'h Legion was known by the forces alongside which they served-'the War-born’. It may then be theorized that the particular psychological effects of the XIII'h Legion's gene-seed may have been used deliberately as a final weapon of the Unification to bleed away potential rebellion on Terra, and also further absorb the strength of the savage tribes of Old Night into the fledging Imperium. Further evidence for this can be perhaps inferred by the fact that no evidence remains of the XIIIth Legion seeing active deployment on Terra itself during the Unification Wars' bitter dregs - a s both the VII'h and VIII'hLegions' early incarnations were, for example- with their first full battle honours recorded as being for the Pacification ofLuna, and the brutal Sedna Campaign at the edge of the Sol System.

Bolding mine.

**Gir Spirit Bane**

BrianDavion wrote:
the Imperial Fists, raven guard and Salamanders also have some notable gene seed flaws. The Imperial Fists are stable but missing an implant or two

What flaws are there in Imperial Fists? I know the Raven Guard and Salamanders flaws

**Sterling191**

Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

What flaws are there in Imperial Fists? I know the Raven Guard and Salamanders flaws

They're incapable of developing two of the primary Astartes organs. They also *really* like carving bones, to the point of pathology.

**pm713**

Sterling191 wrote:
Gir Spirit Bane wrote:

What flaws are there in Imperial Fists? I know the Raven Guard and Salamanders flaws

They're incapable of developing two of the primary Astartes organs. They also *really* like carving bones, to the point of pathology.

War of the Beast shows that's not actually a problem the Imperial Fists had.