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It does seem ridiculous. A simple moratorium on making any more, then bleeding them off in 'heroic' missions makes a lot more sense.

Even if the custodes are somehow better at the same job, and can get to places instantly, there would still be external battles to fight if the point is to cull the legions.

----
The idea that the Word Bearers were able to lead Horus off the rails while Empy was busy, and the corruption spread from there is much more palatable. Especially with the final link being the combined hubris of Magnus and Empy himself.

Voss wrote:
It does seem ridiculous. A simple moratorium on making any more, then bleeding them off in 'heroic' missions makes a lot more sense.

Even if the custodes are somehow better at the same job, and can get to places instantly, there would still be external battles to fight if the point is to cull the legions.

----
The idea that the Word Bearers were able to lead Horus off the rails while Empy was busy, and the corruption spread from there is much more palatable. Especially with the final link being the combined hubris of Magnus and Empy himself.

Because there is no chance the very moment the Astartes realise they are being put to pasture they won't immediately revolt.

How the hell would the Emperor even kill off the primarchs and Marines if he wanted to? It's not like you just wake up one day and exterminate about two million supersoldiers and their demigod fathers before lunch.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
How the hell would the Emperor even kill off the primarchs and Marines if he wanted to? It's not like you just wake up one day and exterminate about two million supersoldiers and their demigod fathers before lunch.

Laughs in Mount Ararat

You say that like there isn't precedent for him doing exactly that.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
How the hell would the Emperor even kill off the primarchs and Marines if he wanted to? It's not like you just wake up one day and exterminate about two million supersoldiers and their demigod fathers before lunch.

Laughs in Mount Ararat

You say that like there isn't precedent for him doing exactly that.

Pulling off something like that would have been far harder when dealing with legions spread all across the galaxy. Even the Ullanor Crusade contained only a reltively small portion of the Imperial forces.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Darian Aarush wrote:
I'm not with you on this one. My greatest sympathy is for the most noble of all the Primarchs, Sanguinius, who was betrayed and murdered by Horus.


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Gadzilla666 wrote:
Because that's what the Emperor designed him to be.

All the primarchs were created by the Emperor for a specific purpose.

Curze was meant to be a monster and then was damned for it.

This is not quite right. All the primarchs were scattered throughout the galaxy, many warped and changed from their original form and then raised on myriad bizarre worlds which left their imprints on them.

Then explain why all the legions, which were created on Terra from their primarch's geneseed, and from Terran stock meshed up with their primarchs so perfectly when they were found?

The Emperor created each primarch and his legion to fill a specific role. It wasn't the primarch's/legion's fault if the purpose he created them for wasn't a pleasant or noble one.

And feth that blonde Mary Sue and his legion of cannibals. They're no less blood thirsty than any of the "traitors ".

Define "meshing up so perfectly". And of course it wasn't pleasant, it was war. Noble is subjective, and very much depends on which side you take or what point of view you have.

They're precisely NOT a legion of cannibals because of that "blonde Mary Sue," who taught them how to rise above their baser selves. And the fact that they have to fight as much against their flaw as the enemy is testament to their honour. Moreover, the 'flaw' only exists because of Horus' treachery. It is his betrayal and killing of Sanguinius which manifests itself in the Black Rage.

 Darian Aarush wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Darian Aarush wrote:
I'm not with you on this one. My greatest sympathy is for the most noble of all the Primarchs, Sanguinius, who was betrayed and murdered by Horus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Because that's what the Emperor designed him to be.

All the primarchs were created by the Emperor for a specific purpose.

Curze was meant to be a monster and then was damned for it.

This is not quite right. All the primarchs were scattered throughout the galaxy, many warped and changed from their original form and then raised on myriad bizarre worlds which left their imprints on them.

Then explain why all the legions, which were created on Terra from their primarch's geneseed, and from Terran stock meshed up with their primarchs so perfectly when they were found?

The Emperor created each primarch and his legion to fill a specific role. It wasn't the primarch's/legion's fault if the purpose he created them for wasn't a pleasant or noble one.

And feth that blonde Mary Sue and his legion of cannibals. They're no less blood thirsty than any of the "traitors ".

Define "meshing up so perfectly". And of course it wasn't pleasant, it was war. Noble is subjective, and very much depends on which side you take or what point of view you have.

They're precisely NOT a legion of cannibals because of that "blonde Mary Sue," who taught them how to rise above their baser selves. And the fact that they have to fight as much against their flaw as the enemy is testament to their honour. Moreover, the 'flaw' only exists because of Horus' treachery. It is his betrayal and killing of Sanguinius which manifests itself in the Black Rage.

The Red Thirst existed pre heresy.

 Darian Aarush wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Darian Aarush wrote:
I'm not with you on this one. My greatest sympathy is for the most noble of all the Primarchs, Sanguinius, who was betrayed and murdered by Horus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Because that's what the Emperor designed him to be.

All the primarchs were created by the Emperor for a specific purpose.

Curze was meant to be a monster and then was damned for it.

This is not quite right. All the primarchs were scattered throughout the galaxy, many warped and changed from their original form and then raised on myriad bizarre worlds which left their imprints on them.

Then explain why all the legions, which were created on Terra from their primarch's geneseed, and from Terran stock meshed up with their primarchs so perfectly when they were found?

The Emperor created each primarch and his legion to fill a specific role. It wasn't the primarch's/legion's fault if the purpose he created them for wasn't a pleasant or noble one.

And feth that blonde Mary Sue and his legion of cannibals. They're no less blood thirsty than any of the "traitors ".

Define "meshing up so perfectly". And of course it wasn't pleasant, it was war. Noble is subjective, and very much depends on which side you take or what point of view you have.

They're precisely NOT a legion of cannibals because of that "blonde Mary Sue," who taught them how to rise above their baser selves. And the fact that they have to fight as much against their flaw as the enemy is testament to their honour. Moreover, the 'flaw' only exists because of Horus' treachery. It is his betrayal and killing of Sanguinius which manifests itself in the Black Rage.

The primarchs/legions traits were prebuilt into them at the genetic level by the Emperor. That's why each legion has its own stock of geneseed. Those traits were then enhanced by hypno-programing and training along with each legions recruitment practices. The original night lords were children born and raised in massive prison complexes on terra. They were a legion of murderers before they even met Curze and he was a murderer before he met them because that's what the Emperor created them to be.

Imperial Fists built fortresses before they met Dorn. World Eaters were bezerkers before they met Angron and on and on.

The Emperor created the Night Lords to be his monsters and they would have been the first legion to be destroyed at the end of the Great Crusade simply because they did what they were created to do. Blaming them for being monsters is akin to blaming a pet tiger when it acts like a tiger and mauls it's owner.

The primarchs and astartes were created by the Emperor to be weapons. You don't blame the weapon you blame whoever pulled it's trigger.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
How the hell would the Emperor even kill off the primarchs and Marines if he wanted to? It's not like you just wake up one day and exterminate about two million supersoldiers and their demigod fathers before lunch.

Laughs in Mount Ararat

You say that like there isn't precedent for him doing exactly that.

Pulling off something like that would have been far harder when dealing with legions spread all across the galaxy. Even the Ullanor Crusade contained only a reltively small portion of the Imperial forces.

The whole point is that this would be done once the Webway is complete. When the Custodes/'Loyalists' can travel faster and quicker than any would be renegade, and surgically excise them before they even know they're under attack.



Picture it. The webway project is up and running, the aliens threats long fled. The Emperor puts out the call to his sons. 'Come home', he says. 'Gather your most worthy and loyal heroes from your Legions, take ship, and meet me in the retirement villa. Deploy your legions in these exact configurations/garrisons whilst they await further orders. We'll decide what comes next when you get here'. The Primarchs thus gather on board their ships and make their way to Terra.

Unbeknownst to them however, the Emperor's forces ready themselves. Mechanicum assets, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, and more. All confident that the Astartes are now split into smaller, precisely located chunks, they enter the webway and take up position according to a timetable long since laid out by Malcador to the nth degree. And they wait.

The Primarchs arrive at Terra. Feted by the populace, they head to their round table conference, eager to find out what comes next. But before they've even taken their seats? The order is given (66?). The Emperor's forces begin striking across the galaxy. Most are successful. Some few are not. These places are selected for repeat strike until resistance is terminated. Meanwhile, the Primarchs are comfortably restricted to their custom designed villa, detached from their Legions and cut off from their power bases. It might take them a century or two to get past the betrayal, but intellectually, they all knew of the fate of the Thunder Warriors. Excuses can be made. Justifications given. Arguments had. It matters little how long it takes now that humanity is secure and the Emperor can devote his full attention to the task. The Primarchs and most worthy of their Legion are securely in place, preserved and safeguarded for future need and use.

And the Legions? The Legions are gone, their nascent threat extinguished before it could ever take root. The Emperor reigns, secure and supreme. Humanity can finally ascend.

The primarchs and astartes were created by the Emperor to be weapons. You don't blame the weapon you blame whoever pulled it's trigger.

The Emperor didn't pull Horus' trigger, the Daemons of the Warp and Lorgar did.

But that not withstanding, all of the primarchs had a choice. The Emperor didn't make it for them. Whatever they may have been created for, they were still sentient beings, demi-gods almost. To say they weren't accountable for their own choices and actions is simply unjustifiable. Horus could have chosen not to make a pact with a daemon. The Word Bearers could have chosen not to follow the gods of the Warp. The Thousand Sons could have chosen not to pursue the path of sorcery. Fulgrim could have chosen not to have been a self-absorbed twirp.

It is true that the circumstances around some primarchs were tragic - in particular Angron and Curze, and that (although it doesn't excuse the choices they made) goes some way to explain how they turned out the way they did.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Voss wrote:
It does seem ridiculous. A simple moratorium on making any more, then bleeding them off in 'heroic' missions makes a lot more sense.

Even if the custodes are somehow better at the same job, and can get to places instantly, there would still be external battles to fight if the point is to cull the legions.

----
The idea that the Word Bearers were able to lead Horus off the rails while Empy was busy, and the corruption spread from there is much more palatable. Especially with the final link being the combined hubris of Magnus and Empy himself.

Because there is no chance the very moment the Astartes realise they are being put to pasture they won't immediately revolt.

There is every chance they wouldn't if you went about it the right way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
How the hell would the Emperor even kill off the primarchs and Marines if he wanted to? It's not like you just wake up one day and exterminate about two million supersoldiers and their demigod fathers before lunch.

Send them against each other to purge the crazy ones like World Eaters, hurl some headlong into whats left of Xenos like Orks and let them bleed and the rest can have ship accidents. You know what advantages a Space Marine has on an exploding space ship? Diddly that's what.

Dai wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 lifeafter wrote:

Andykp wrote:
This is one of things I dislike most about the horus heresey now that black library have butchered the story. All the traitors are tragic figures with daddy issues. It just feels very trite and condescending. It’s all too good guys vs tragic good guys gone bad. And it makes chaos marines feel more like ordinary marines with spikes on.

What should the motivation have been?

What’s wrong with just simple greed, ambition, basic human failings, why does all have to be based on their daddy issues? They all just come across as simpering little children desperate for approval, it’s all very emo and juvenile. Much better that they had their own personalities and motives outside of their relationship with the emperor.

The thing is that "simple" human failings like greed, ambition etc are rarely just character traits one is born with (especially if taken to the sort of extremes that will lead to a galactic civil war!). Beings like this, in this universe would seem quite silly if they did not have at least some trauma, a degree of sociopathy and a whole host of other psychological issues (and I don't just mean the traitors here, this very muc trickles down to the marines as well). I don't exactly know what you mean by "emo" in this context but you appear to be stating that you think a trait of "I want power because I want power" would be preferable to any real character examination, if I am wrong please correct me! I'd find that particularly dull to be honest.

Having said that I don't think that the HH series examines this particularly well either and to be honest I would not expect it to, I rather expect the MO to any writer is not to get too heavy and they're also not going to be attracting the best of the best character writers anyway.

As for daddy issues, The HH was always unashamedly based on paradise lost and given the background of the setting these issues are something of a no brainer. Do they lean on it too heavily? Maybe but it all seems fairly plausible as far as anything in all of this does.

They don’t just lean on it, it’s the whole basis of the story and each one the same. Much more than one relationship defines a persons character, and when so much of characters character appears to have been engineered it makes their one real interaction be basically the same. The original basis for the HH was great because it was vague so didn’t need to examine motives at any depth. There wasn’t the depth there to wring 50 books out of it. All the primarchs are cliched tropes nicked from other things. Great for short stories and brief historical bits but not much more.

I really like Alan blighs HH books from forge world. It gave the facts and clinically examined motives and tactics. It didn’t try and turn each primarch into a soap opera when they were really shallow sci-fi/fantasy cliches. In the end it’s been about money and I dint think the setting has improved for it at all.

It's also possiable the Emperor intended to keep SOME Primarchs and discard of others. even if he engineered a civil war with the victors solidly winning it would have been a decent eneugh culling, he then could have taken the remainder and used them for some other purpose, in fact it's worth noting that many of those who turned where almost uniformly the most problematic. the broken ones that simply would not have thrived in peacetime. One can imagine the Ultramarines being content to serve a mostly ceremonial position, the Imperial Fists content to act as fortress guards, the white scars content to patrol the fringes of imperial space snuffing out orks etc, but the world eaters? the night lords? legions like that you'd HAVE to be rid of them when the crusade ended

BrianDavion wrote:
It's also possiable the Emperor intended to keep SOME Primarchs and discard of others. even if he engineered a civil war with the victors solidly winning it would have been a decent eneugh culling, he then could have taken the remainder and used them for some other purpose, in fact it's worth noting that many of those who turned where almost uniformly the most problematic. the broken ones that simply would not have thrived in peacetime. One can imagine the Ultramarines being content to serve a mostly ceremonial position, the Imperial Fists content to act as fortress guards, the white scars content to patrol the fringes of imperial space snuffing out orks etc, but the world eaters? the night lords? legions like that you'd HAVE to be rid of them when the crusade ended

That's the point I've been trying to make. The Night Lords, World Eaters, and legions like them were engineered to do the dirty, ugly work and then be disposed of after the Crusade ended .

They were designed to be disposable monsters. There only choice was to rebel in order to survive whether they realized it or not.

It's wrong to vilify something that was created to be a monster for acting like a monster.

except that we have several examples of Legions that managed to over come their "baser demons" and become valued and loyal legions, the blood angels and space wolves where noted for being fairly savage, yet THEIR Primarchs tempered that nature. So yes we can absolutely judge primarchs like Cruz, Angron etc, for UTTERLY FAILING their legions

BrianDavion wrote:
except that we have several examples of Legions that managed to over come their "baser demons" and become valued and loyal legions, the blood angels and space wolves where noted for being fairly savage, yet THEIR Primarchs tempered that nature. So yes we can absolutely judge primarchs like Cruz, Angron etc, for UTTERLY FAILING their legions

They were ENGINEERED by the Emperor to fail. The primarchs and the legions were constructed by the Emperor.

So we can judge the Emperor for PURPOSEFULLY CREATING THEM TO FAIL their legions.

He created them to fulfill a purpose and then be disposed of.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
except that we have several examples of Legions that managed to over come their "baser demons" and become valued and loyal legions, the blood angels and space wolves where noted for being fairly savage, yet THEIR Primarchs tempered that nature. So yes we can absolutely judge primarchs like Cruz, Angron etc, for UTTERLY FAILING their legions

They were ENGINEERED by the Emperor to fail. The primarchs and the legions were constructed by the Emperor.

So we can judge the Emperor for PURPOSEFULLY CREATING THEM TO FAIL their legions.

He created them to fulfill a purpose and then be disposed of.

yet again, not true, other primarchs rose above their base orgins. do you blame a criminals mother because said criminal committed the crime? A bad childhood is a mitigatring factor yes but it's hardly the only thing.

BrianDavion wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
except that we have several examples of Legions that managed to over come their "baser demons" and become valued and loyal legions, the blood angels and space wolves where noted for being fairly savage, yet THEIR Primarchs tempered that nature. So yes we can absolutely judge primarchs like Cruz, Angron etc, for UTTERLY FAILING their legions

They were ENGINEERED by the Emperor to fail. The primarchs and the legions were constructed by the Emperor.

So we can judge the Emperor for PURPOSEFULLY CREATING THEM TO FAIL their legions.

He created them to fulfill a purpose and then be disposed of.

yet again, not true, other primarchs rose above their base orgins. do you blame a criminals mother because said criminal committed the crime? A bad childhood is a mitigatring factor yes but it's hardly the only thing.

completely true, but being engineered to serve a specific purpose ist not the same as having a bad childhood I guess it all comes down to the question if and to what degree the Emperor engineered the primarchs to fit a specific purpose.

BrianDavion wrote:
except that we have several examples of Legions that managed to over come their "baser demons" and become valued and loyal legions, the blood angels and space wolves where noted for being fairly savage, yet THEIR Primarchs tempered that nature. So yes we can absolutely judge primarchs like Cruz, Angron etc, for UTTERLY FAILING their legions

Hear, hear!

Waaaghbert wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
except that we have several examples of Legions that managed to over come their "baser demons" and become valued and loyal legions, the blood angels and space wolves where noted for being fairly savage, yet THEIR Primarchs tempered that nature. So yes we can absolutely judge primarchs like Cruz, Angron etc, for UTTERLY FAILING their legions

They were ENGINEERED by the Emperor to fail. The primarchs and the legions were constructed by the Emperor.

So we can judge the Emperor for PURPOSEFULLY CREATING THEM TO FAIL their legions.

He created them to fulfill a purpose and then be disposed of.

yet again, not true, other primarchs rose above their base orgins. do you blame a criminals mother because said criminal committed the crime? A bad childhood is a mitigatring factor yes but it's hardly the only thing.

completely true, but being engineered to serve a specific purpose ist not the same as having a bad childhood I guess it all comes down to the question if and to what degree the Emperor engineered the primarchs to fit a specific purpose.

Yes exactly! The primarchs weren't the Emperor's "children " they were genetically engineered instruments of war. The "flaws " of each primarch were actually a feature of the program.

Dorn was meant to be cold and aloof. Russ was meant to be a reactionary. Those traits contributed to their effectiveness in their specific roles along with the same engineered traits of their legions.

It was just a matter of some primarchs/legions needing less egregious traits in order to fulfill their roles. It had nothing to do with whether the Emperor "loved " some primarchs more than others.

Every primarch had flaws designed to make them more effective at their respective job.

Except for Hawk Boy who is a MARY SUE.

Every primarch had flaws designed to make them more effective at their respective job.

Can you list them?

What were the 'designed' flaws of primarchs such as Guilliman, the Lion and indeed even Horus?

If you can blame the Emperor for anything, I'd say it would be for sticking to his plan even after chaos meddled with it. He wanted 20 generals to lead his legions, but apparently didn't stop to think that maybe some of them really shouldn't get that job after what they went through. Makes you wonder just how bad the two lost primarchs must have turned out...

 Tiennos wrote:
If you can blame the Emperor for anything, I'd say it would be for sticking to his plan even after chaos meddled with it. He wanted 20 generals to lead his legions, but apparently didn't stop to think that maybe some of them really shouldn't get that job after what they went through. Makes you wonder just how bad the two lost primarchs must have turned out...

Considering the Emperor's complete lack of emotional awareness and understanding, they were probably the ones he raised from "birth"

 Tiennos wrote:
If you can blame the Emperor for anything, I'd say it would be for sticking to his plan even after chaos meddled with it. He wanted 20 generals to lead his legions, but apparently didn't stop to think that maybe some of them really shouldn't get that job after what they went through. Makes you wonder just how bad the two lost primarchs must have turned out...

I think this is a reasonable point. There was certainly some naivety on his part with regards to this.

The Lion’s a bit of a donkey-cave.

 Darian Aarush wrote:

Every primarch had flaws designed to make them more effective at their respective job.

Can you list them?

What were the 'designed' flaws of primarchs such as Guilliman, the Lion and indeed even Horus?

Guilliman is naive, The Lion is a hypocrite and Horus is arrogant.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Darian Aarush wrote:

Every primarch had flaws designed to make them more effective at their respective job.

Can you list them?

What were the 'designed' flaws of primarchs such as Guilliman, the Lion and indeed even Horus?

Guilliman is naive, The Lion is a hypocrite and Horus is arrogant.

I don't disagree with those character descriptions, but were they deliberate flaws placed in those specific primarchs by the Emperor to serve a particular purpose? I don't think so...

I'm not sure I buy the 'he deliberately set some of the Primarchs up with traits which he knew meant he'd kill them later' line. I can go with him trying to engineer certain traits, and that by extension those legions were meant to embody certain distasteful traits. I just don't follow it through to that ending.

Take Curze. Yes, he was given prophetic foresight. But so was Sanguinius.Yes, he was given ruthlessness. But so was the Lion. Yes, he and his were expected to do nasty work. But Curze himself hated the sadists who ran his society, and his legion was comprised of other types of people until the later reinforcements he was sent from Nostromo turned out to be of poor moral caliber.

Curze's actions and fall, the poor sod, were based upon many things. From the compliances he went through after discovery, to the constant visions he had of the death and destruction to come, to a constant nagging envy that he'd gotten the wrong side of the coin when it came to the 'Homeworlds'. There was no guarantee he would fall. He might have been dealt a worse hand than others, and he might have been engineered with an inclination towards certain behavioural mechanisms.

But it is worth remembering that his legion, whilst terrifying and sadistic, only really went off the deep end after they'd been out on campaign for a while. And at that stage, the extent to which they did so was very much not in line with either Curze or the Emperor's view of morality. Curze just gradually stopped caring about whatever his Legion did. It's why he ditched them shortly after the Heresy started. It's why marines like Sevatar were different to many of the dregs of the rank and file. Marines like that were what the Emperor envisioned the Night Lords and Curze himself as being; not a bunch of bullying, cowardly, sadistic monsters.

No, they were supposed to be ruthless. They were supposed to be nihilistic. They were supposed to have a disdain for authority. But Curze and his marines were not meant to be traitors from the start. That came from life experience and several other factors which the Emperor didn't add to the magical Formula X. The Emperor might have known that he'd need people to do dirty work and engineered traits to help turn out the kind of people who could tolerate orders and situations distasteful to the morally pure. But that does not necessarily equate to him assuming he'd have to kill them FOR those traits.

 Ketara wrote:
I'm not sure I buy the 'he deliberately set some of the Primarchs up with traits which he knew meant he'd kill them later' line. I can go with him trying to engineer certain traits, and that by extension those legions were meant to embody certain distasteful traits. I just don't follow it through to that ending.

Take Curze. Yes, he was given prophetic foresight. But so was Sanguinius.Yes, he was given ruthlessness. But so was the Lion. Yes, he and his were expected to do nasty work. But Curze himself hated the sadists who ran his society, and his legion was comprised of other types of people until the later reinforcements he was sent from Nostromo turned out to be of poor moral caliber.

Curze's actions and fall, the poor sod, were based upon many things. From the compliances he went through after discovery, to the constant visions he had of the death and destruction to come, to a constant nagging envy that he'd gotten the wrong side of the coin when it came to the 'Homeworlds'. There was no guarantee he would fall. He might have been dealt a worse hand than others, and he might have been engineered with an inclination towards certain behavioural mechanisms.

But it is worth remembering that his legion, whilst terrifying and sadistic, only really went off the deep end after they'd been out on campaign for a while. And at that stage, the extent to which they did so was very much not in line with either Curze or the Emperor's view of morality. Curze just gradually stopped caring about whatever his Legion did. It's why he ditched them shortly after the Heresy started. It's why marines like Sevatar were different to many of the dregs of the rank and file. Marines like that were what the Emperor envisioned the Night Lords and Curze himself as being; not a bunch of bullying, cowardly, sadistic monsters.

No, they were supposed to be ruthless. They were supposed to be nihilistic. They were supposed to have a disdain for authority. But Curze and his marines were not meant to be traitors from the start. That came from life experience and several other factors which the Emperor didn't add to the magical Formula X. The Emperor might have known that he'd need people to do dirty work and engineered traits to help turn out the kind of people who could tolerate orders and situations distasteful to the morally pure. But that does not necessarily equate to him assuming he'd have to kill them FOR those traits.

Excellent post. Logical, sensible and reasonable.

If I'm honest, I suspect that the Emperor didn't quite know which traits would prove the most resilient or effective in providing the kinds of people that he wanted. It's why we get so many traits crossed across different Primarchs and legions. Dorn and Perturabo for example. Corax and Curze. I suspect they were different 'batches', so to speak, aiming at the same end goal. He may have suspected some of them would fail, and that's why he built in multiple redundancies in trait allocation. As a backup, or failsafe.He had no idea what sort of influences they might be subjected to after they left the lab.

But he probably had no idea which specific ones would turn out particularly well, and hoped none of them would turn out too badly.