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Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

 Togusa wrote:
Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

For what unit?

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

For what unit?

Acolytes, basic troops.

 Togusa wrote:
Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

I take it he's a generally disliked guy, and not just because he plays GSC?

Because that's the only justification for the TO looking at 1000% points increase on a t3 5+ troops infantry and saying it seems legit.

 Blndmage wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

For what unit?

Acolytes, basic troops.

Oof. that is bs of the highest calibre...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

I take it he's a generally disliked guy, and not just because he plays GSC?

Because that's the only justification for the TO looking at 1000% points increase on a t3 5+ troops infantry and saying it seems legit.

1100% from the point of 5 up to 55.

Regardless, that is the most likely case.

 Togusa wrote:
Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

Absolutely glorious. While we may think it is a jerk move, I kind of have to agree with the TO. Those ARE the most recent points released, so it would be unfair to say the GSC players don't have to use the most recent points compared to other factions. In a casual game though? I would tell my opponent to ignore the silly 55ppm unit price until fixed haha.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
But guys, Jervis told us that GW uses a magical points calculating super computer spreadsheet to come up with points values which is almost always correct.*

So we should totally trust GW and not critique them.
Or something.



*I wish I was making that up... ('Rules of Engagement' & 'Glory Points' in White Dwarf, March 2019)

Would that be the article where he said that for any given specific game the points will almost always be out - no matter what points you assigned because of the exact circumstances of the game (terrain/opposition/mission)?

The same article where the points calculator "only gives a rough approximation of the value of a unit"?

He literally said that no possible points value will be almost always correct and he said that the points calculator is only the starting point. So either your reading comprehension skill wants some work or you are just trolling here.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
Local tournament is making the GSC players use the 55ppm until an errata comes out.

That, is the toppest of keks.

Absolutely glorious. While we may think it is a jerk move, I kind of have to agree with the TO. Those ARE the most recent points released, so it would be unfair to say the GSC players don't have to use the most recent points compared to other factions. In a casual game though? I would tell my opponent to ignore the silly 55ppm unit price until fixed haha.

It’s a jerk move no matter which way you look at it. TOs house rule stuff all the time. Blindly saying you have to follow an obvious typo is just bunk. But tournaments aren’t the be all and end all, regardless of what Dakka might pretend, and luckily most folk are reasonable and want to have fun.

He must really dislike the GSC, or the person playing GSC at the event wrong him once. But then again rules are rules, just because they are stupid, doesn't mean people don't have to follow them. We would get anarchy if people decided to not follow rules they think are stupid.

Karol wrote:
He must really dislike the GSC, or the person playing GSC at the event wrong him once. But then again rules are rules, just because they are stupid, doesn't mean people don't have to follow them. We would get anarchy if people decided to not follow rules they think are stupid.

Obvious typo is obvious typo.

Good thing I've took the decision to not buy one single book from GW ever again. Rules should be free.

Cool, because of an type my grandparents lost 4ha of land, a house and my great grand father went to prison for voicing diconntent about it. In a week or two it is going to be errated, probably. Till then it is the rule.

In sports people lose placing all the time, because of typos, or stupid stuff like a seal on your gear being broken, or a slightly greyer shade of sole on your boots.

Am not saying I like this, or that I think it is a good thing that it happens. But law is law, people can't randomly just go on and change it, because they don't like it.

Karol wrote:
Cool, because of an type my grandparents lost 4ha of land, a house and my great grand father went to prison for voicing diconntent about it. In a week or two it is going to be errated, probably. Till then it is the rule.

In sports people lose placing all the time, because of typos, or stupid stuff like a seal on your gear being broken, or a slightly greyer shade of sole on your boots.

Am not saying I like this, or that I think it is a good thing that it happens. But law is law, people can't randomly just go on and change it, because they don't like it.

These are not Laws, they are rules for a game. We can and absolutely should ignore obvious nonsense.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Karol wrote:
He must really dislike the GSC, or the person playing GSC at the event wrong him once. But then again rules are rules, just because they are stupid, doesn't mean people don't have to follow them. We would get anarchy if people decided to not follow rules they think are stupid.

Obvious typo is obvious typo.

And yet not so obvious that it would get picked up by GWs crack editing team

Crack refers to their drug of choice, not their ability

Herbington 783252 10658991 wrote:

These are not Laws, they are rules for a game. We can and absolutely should ignore obvious nonsense.

Do they come in writen form and exist to govern social interaction between people ? I think yes, unless my store is the only one in the world where people play the game, and all the stories about playing and even tournaments are just imagined by people.

I got disqualifed in a competition once for, my locker having its seal broken when I was having a match. did it have any impact on the match? no. The event was in a place where everything was surveilled, so I didn't sneak in between matchs to juice up before the match. No one cared, seal broke equals being disqualified. And IMO my matchs have more weight then w40k tournaments, I don't think anyones school scholarship depend on how well they play.

Or to use a w40k example, one of the older players at my store has a wife, who is an artists and a graphic designer. She makes models that look like art pices. She went to spain to take part in golden demon, she got disqualifed because the judges decided that the two models diorama she made was not fair, and a tau kroot could never fight an eldar wright lord. And the model is beatiful, it has trees, the troop has the wright lord traped with some sort of trap, so it is falling down. The whole wright lord body is covered in painted stars, that reflect in a pool of water on the diorama. Doesn't matter, not legal, no matter how stupid it is.

Karol wrote:
...a tau kroot could never fight an eldar wright lord.

That is a stupid ruling. 40k canon is so loose that pretty much anything can be fluffed as long as it avoids known characters, and even then there is wiggle room.

Karol wrote:

Herbington 783252 10658991 wrote:

These are not Laws, they are rules for a game. We can and absolutely should ignore obvious nonsense.

Do they come in writen form and exist to govern social interaction between people ? I think yes, unless my store is the only one in the world where people play the game, and all the stories about playing and even tournaments are just imagined by people.

I got disqualifed in a competition once for, my locker having its seal broken when I was having a match. did it have any impact on the match? no. The event was in a place where everything was surveilled, so I didn't sneak in between matchs to juice up before the match. No one cared, seal broke equals being disqualified. And IMO my matchs have more weight then w40k tournaments, I don't think anyones school scholarship depend on how well they play.

Or to use a w40k example, one of the older players at my store has a wife, who is an artists and a graphic designer. She makes models that look like art pices. She went to spain to take part in golden demon, she got disqualifed because the judges decided that the two models diorama she made was not fair, and a tau kroot could never fight an eldar wright lord. And the model is beatiful, it has trees, the troop has the wright lord traped with some sort of trap, so it is falling down. The whole wright lord body is covered in painted stars, that reflect in a pool of water on the diorama. Doesn't matter, not legal, no matter how stupid it is.

40k has always been meant to be house ruled. Even going back to Rogue Trader. Dakka has an entire forum just for rules interpretation.

All this stuff you're talking about sounds like zero tolerance kind of thing. Zero tolerance equals zero thinking. That's the kind of stuff that much of 40k was created to satirize.

Karol wrote:
We would get anarchy if people decided to not follow rules they think are stupid.

That's not how we get anarchy. It is, in fact, how we get progress.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Karol wrote:
He must really dislike the GSC, or the person playing GSC at the event wrong him once. But then again rules are rules, just because they are stupid, doesn't mean people don't have to follow them. We would get anarchy if people decided to not follow rules they think are stupid.

Obvious typo is obvious typo.

And yet not so obvious that it would get picked up by GWs crack editing team

Crack refers to their drug of choice, not their ability

Interesting, i allways thought their editors were alcoholblind drunk irish leprechaun monkey Hybrids.

No offense to the regular irish leprechauns

 Duskweaver wrote:

Karol wrote:
We would get anarchy if people decided to not follow rules they think are stupid.

That's not how we get anarchy. It is, in fact, how we get progress.

HEAR HEAR!

 Duskweaver wrote:

Karol wrote:
We would get anarchy if people decided to not follow rules they think are stupid.

That's not how we get anarchy. It is, in fact, how we get progress.

That's how you block progress. Sticking your head in the sand to pretend something isn't broken won't get it fixed. People trying to divine what rules are supposed to be because GW uses loose inconsistent language is why their QA is garbage. Play it RAW or issue something that changes the actual text. It may not seem like a big difference, but it makes it easier for GW to adopt fixes that work. Especially if a bigger tournament adopts this mindset.

"55 pts is an obvious typo so for this event change the cost to 5pts" vs "55 pts is an obvious typo so we are going to ignore that change." Ambiguous rules really benefit from this if ITC/ETC changes something like SP which has been altered almost every single FAQ so far. If it works as GW intends they simply adopt the new text.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Karol wrote:

Herbington 783252 10658991 wrote:

These are not Laws, they are rules for a game. We can and absolutely should ignore obvious nonsense.

Do they come in writen form and exist to govern social interaction between people ? I think yes, unless my store is the only one in the world where people play the game, and all the stories about playing and even tournaments are just imagined by people.

I got disqualifed in a competition once for, my locker having its seal broken when I was having a match. did it have any impact on the match? no. The event was in a place where everything was surveilled, so I didn't sneak in between matchs to juice up before the match. No one cared, seal broke equals being disqualified. And IMO my matchs have more weight then w40k tournaments, I don't think anyones school scholarship depend on how well they play.

Or to use a w40k example, one of the older players at my store has a wife, who is an artists and a graphic designer. She makes models that look like art pices. She went to spain to take part in golden demon, she got disqualifed because the judges decided that the two models diorama she made was not fair, and a tau kroot could never fight an eldar wright lord. And the model is beatiful, it has trees, the troop has the wright lord traped with some sort of trap, so it is falling down. The whole wright lord body is covered in painted stars, that reflect in a pool of water on the diorama. Doesn't matter, not legal, no matter how stupid it is.

40k has always been meant to be house ruled. Even going back to Rogue Trader. Dakka has an entire forum just for rules interpretation.

All this stuff you're talking about sounds like zero tolerance kind of thing. Zero tolerance equals zero thinking. That's the kind of stuff that much of 40k was created to satirize.

If 40k was meant to just be house ruled then why the feth are they selling you books full of rules every year? 40k is meant to make money. Thats it. It's a business.

Karol wrote:


Do they come in writen form and exist to govern social interaction between people ? I think yes, unless my store is the only one in the world where people play the game, and all the stories about playing and even tournaments are just imagined by people.

I got disqualifed in a competition once for, my locker having its seal broken when I was having a match. did it have any impact on the match? no. The event was in a place where everything was surveilled, so I didn't sneak in between matchs to juice up before the match. No one cared, seal broke equals being disqualified. And IMO my matchs have more weight then w40k tournaments, I don't think anyones school scholarship depend on how well they play.

Or to use a w40k example, one of the older players at my store has a wife, who is an artists and a graphic designer. She makes models that look like art pices. She went to spain to take part in golden demon, she got disqualifed because the judges decided that the two models diorama she made was not fair, and a tau kroot could never fight an eldar wright lord. And the model is beatiful, it has trees, the troop has the wright lord traped with some sort of trap, so it is falling down. The whole wright lord body is covered in painted stars, that reflect in a pool of water on the diorama. Doesn't matter, not legal, no matter how stupid it is.

Did...you seriously just use an anti-doping rule to try to justify blind adherence to an extremely blatant rule misprint in a hobby game?

Karol wrote:

.

Or to use a w40k example, one of the older players at my store has a wife, who is an artists and a graphic designer. She makes models that look like art pices. She went to spain to take part in golden demon, she got disqualifed because the judges decided that the two models diorama she made was not fair, and a tau kroot could never fight an eldar wright lord. And the model is beatiful, it has trees, the troop has the wright lord traped with some sort of trap, so it is falling down. The whole wright lord body is covered in painted stars, that reflect in a pool of water on the diorama. Doesn't matter, not legal, no matter how stupid it is.

I'm going to cal BS on this one. There's GOT to be more to the story. Or maybe she didn't win because it was a silly scenario but I doubt she was necessarily disqualified.

Playing a miniatures game requires a certain amount of judgement/discernment. Making GSC players follow an obvious typo is silly. The TO clearly lacks the ability to make sound judgements.

We have a challenge, from the offense. The ruling on the field is the woman's nativity thing was disqualified due to legality.

We will now review.

Besides, 40k has always had loose rules that encouraged (if not outright needed) house rules, interpretation and "Let's play it this way" sort of things.

Karol's comments on here certainly highlight why he's truly not having fun in this game anymore. It's not Grey Knights, it;s his gaming environment.

The points gaff is especially painful, I have stuffed many of these points into an Excel sheet and costs out of alignment are rather... obvious when you scan through them.
Whom do they have for an editor? I may have to check the credits.

I think the people saying 'it's an obvious typo and the TO is a dick for enforcing it' are somewhat missing the point.

Tournaments need to establish consistent standards for what is considered 'the rules' and what's house-ruling.

So, should a tournament:
-Just house-rule the 55pt GSC back to 5pts?
-Also revert all the changes that appear to have been carry-overs from codex values rather than last year's CA?
-Do their own balance pass that supersedes CA entirely?

Because now we're getting into the weeds of subjectivity, and while we can all pretty readily agree that 55pt GSC troops is utterly ridiculous and clearly a mistake, I imagine there will be more disagreement about what else is a mistake.

I wouldn't want to be the TO who has to argue with players over whether my interpretation of GW's mistakes is correct. So I can understand the approach they're taking here: We're playing a tournament using official rules, this is the publication that GW says is official, use it as-is.

And I hope it draws attention, because maybe then GW will actually errata it, rather than rely on the goodwill of the community to patch up the $30 book that exists literally for no other reason than to be the final arbiter of points costs.