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Hi everyone. I bought a while ago the Slaves to Darkness start collecting box but havent built it until now.

I plan on buying the new start collecting so i will have 22 warriors, 10 knights, 1 chariot or Gorebeast chariot, the chaos lord on crocodile and a sorcerer.

What would be better to build, gorebeast or normal chariot? I plan on giving the chaos lord and the knigths the mark of slanesh so i can reroll charges and i dont know if the chariot would be good alongside them.

Thanks in advance.

I'd say give it a week or so - the new book isn't even out yet so people might not have a proper opinion on the new battletome. Even though preview stuff is out the actual book isn't in peoples hands and I find that that makes a lot of difference for their impressions on making choices based on the books content.

The meta information you are requesting won't really be known for at least a month after this saturday (the book release). Unless things are blatantly just that obvious (which hey its a GW book so thats possible)

[Note: I am still pretty new to AoS and non-D&D fantasy combat games)

As Overread said, it is a little tough to say right now. Without having the battletome in hand to see what can combo with chariots as well as a player that isn't super into them despite having two, My initial thought on the gorebeast chariot is it is too expensive now as slow missile unit like all missile units has ensure is strikes first and keeping a Leader next to it to help out might just endanger the Leader unit more than help the gorebeast. It also isn't a Battleline unit which isn't a big deal except the S2D units do eat points really fast and can make it an issue. As for the Chaos Chariot, I also am concerned that they points hike makes it too expensive to be much use especially since they don't get a group rate anymore. Again, that is mostly looking at the raw warscroll without considering combos and the fact I don't much care for chariots as player. As for mine, I have built mine to all the changing of the gorebeast or horses for either a flail (because it looks cool) and one with an axe (because I think it is probably the better weapon most of the time).

The tricky thing I am seeing with S2D in the new tome is the fact that their armies are going to want a lot of cheapish leaders to buff their units. Right now, I am considering a Daemon Prince (expensive but looks good), two Sorcerer Lords (because I have the models), 3 units of Chaos Warriors (hand weapon/shield is what I have) x15, Knights x10 (ensorcelled weapons), Knights x10 (Glaives/Lances). That has me 50 pts over 2000. So something has to be dropped just not sure what yet. Probably 5 Warriors. My plan is to support the warriors with my Leader units and go classic hammer (knights) and anvil (warrirors). While I think the warriors will do okay, I still have my doubts about the knights.

When I get the kayak lizard Chaos lord done I will be looking to switch out a leader. I also probably should get to building my Varanguard (probably with ensorcelled weapons) to replace some knights. I also have the Endless Spell models pre-ordered to consider down the road. But the above is at least my starting point. I am also thinking of picking up the foot Chaos Lord to give me more Leader options.

I think the real trick with Slaves to Darkness is synergies as I just don't yet see the units, the ones I have anyways, being worth the extra points they cost now. I don't see a particularly strong configuration for a warrior and knight heavy army yet either. Hopefully, I can get in some games and even better if I can get in some coached games by players that can get me past the newb moves more quickly.

For now for sure get at least 1 DP and a box or two of Marauders. After that just wait a few weeks.

While you are waiting be preping your army, building, painting, and playing what you have and making sure you know the uits really well. That way when you get more you wont be learning 20 new units all at once.

One warning; do not assemble the knights with lances. Give them ensorcelled weapons, they are far superior to the lances.

As for the chariots, while I have not yet seen the updated rules the regular chariot is likely to be faster while the gorebeast will be tougher, hit harder, and cost a bit more.

Get a War Mammoth, that's my advice

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Get a War Mammoth, that's my advice

You mean the model that isn't in the book and which Forgeworld doesn't sell any more?

 Overread wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Get a War Mammoth, that's my advice

You mean the model that isn't in the book and which Forgeworld doesn't sell any more?

Hey, it's still Slaves to Darkness

 Overread wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Get a War Mammoth, that's my advice

You mean the model that isn't in the book and which Forgeworld doesn't sell any more?

Psh, Toys R Us is happy to provide an alternative!

Wait...

Just from watching Ash over at GMG read through the book, the one stand-out synergy to me was Marauders. Like. Hundreds of them.

People complain about extra points summoning constantly and StD has received a method by which to summon 50 Marauders or 25 marauder horsemen extra worth of points. On top of the other Command Traits and Artifacts for that sub faction being solid enough to be workable.

Including a Marauder Battalion, utilizing Malign Sorcery Artifacts, StD Endless Spells, cheap heroes including 2 Sorcerors and just hordes of Marauders for battleline with a Warshrine for support and other units to taste, I feel like the army might be quite strong.

If someone has the willpower to paint and play with 100+ of those awful looking roid barbarian models that belong in the 80s. I hope someone out there will bite the bullet and try that out so we can see how strong it is. Pestilens Skaven are strong as well because hordes are quite strong right now. If Marauders do break the back of the meta, it could be a while before seeing a change that might bring them back in line.

The only real arguments is "well you can't play that fast enough in a tournament with round limits" which is reasonably correct but there are always unreasonable people that want to break the game to win.

Its sad but i dont think Knights or warriors will feature at all in meta lists. Its going to be rauders either as the whole army or as a minimun points tax to bring out maximum varanguard +daemon princes without having to spend on Archaon.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Overread wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Get a War Mammoth, that's my advice

You mean the model that isn't in the book and which Forgeworld doesn't sell any more?

Psh, Toys R Us is happy to provide an alternative!

Wait...

Then it’s lucky that the lord of the rings line just happens just have a huge elephant model with a platform fitted to its back!
Just need a box of marauders to crew the thing and it’s golden.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One warning; do not assemble the knights with lances. Give them ensorcelled weapons, they are far superior to the lances.

As for the chariots, while I have not yet seen the updated rules the regular chariot is likely to be faster while the gorebeast will be tougher, hit harder, and cost a bit more.

The chariots are tough to compare. +3" of movement vs +1 wound is relatively trivial, but the MW charge mechanics on the gorebeast are much more reliable (2+ for d3 per unit within 1", vs roll dice = charge result, 6s become MW). But the one per game run and charge for the chaos chariot combined with the higher speed should make it much easier to get a charge. The gorebeast itself hits and wounds more often than horses, and does so at D2. But its also a 30 point difference on a single model that's already over 100 points.

Jackal90 wrote:


Then it’s lucky that the lord of the rings line just happens just have a huge elephant model with a platform fitted to its back!
Just need a box of marauders to crew the thing and it’s golden.

Unless you care about aesthetics at all. The scale and overall look is completely off.

Voss wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One warning; do not assemble the knights with lances. Give them ensorcelled weapons, they are far superior to the lances.

As for the chariots, while I have not yet seen the updated rules the regular chariot is likely to be faster while the gorebeast will be tougher, hit harder, and cost a bit more.

The chariots are tough to compare. +3" of movement vs +1 wound is relatively trivial, but the MW charge mechanics on the gorebeast are much more reliable (2+ for d3 per unit within 1", vs roll dice = charge result, 6s become MW). But the one per game run and charge for the chaos chariot combined with the higher speed should make it much easier to get a charge. The gorebeast itself hits and wounds more often than horses, and does so at D2. But its also a 30 point difference on a single model that's already over 100 points.

Jackal90 wrote:


Then it’s lucky that the lord of the rings line just happens just have a huge elephant model with a platform fitted to its back!
Just need a box of marauders to crew the thing and it’s golden.

Unless you care about aesthetics at all. The scale and overall look is completely off.

It's CHAOS! The beast got wet & shrunk is all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Overread wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
Get a War Mammoth, that's my advice

You mean the model that isn't in the book and which Forgeworld doesn't sell any more?

Psh, Toys R Us is happy to provide an alternative!

Wait...

You may not have heard, but Toys R Us is back in business here in the USA - very small & limited atm though....

I know but I figured the joke would land regardless.

I prefer the Gorebeast's damage myself, but the Chariot will have an easier time keeping up with a Slaanesh army's speed.

On the one hand, it only gets to run & charge once per game. On the other hand, is it really going to need to do so more than once?

Its sad but i dont think Knights or warriors will feature at all in meta lists. Its going to be rauders either as the whole army or as a minimun points tax to bring out maximum varanguard +daemon princes without having to spend on Archaon.

I wish you could see my shocked face.

Unless you care about aesthetics at all. The scale and overall look is completely off.

I've been running a lord of the rings mumak in my chaos army for years, and have never had one negative comment about it. Its on the correct base, and I've had dozens of people talk about how awesome it looks and inspired a few of our own players to do the same.

Additionally I do also have the toys are us big plastic battle mammoth that Ninth is talking about as well. It was $50. I've also used that in my games, though it doesn't get me as many comments. It also isn't allowed in my GW store whereas the LOTR mumak is.

I think warriors will absolutely see use--they are exceedingly good at holding ground. Marauders, while excellent at what they do, still melt to even mediocre offense. They won't be around to hold objectives, and varanguard won't have the numbers.

I absolutely think Warrior will have a place in the meta. They're one of the most durable battleline units out there, and they can even hold up decently against MW spam. I know I plan on running 15-man units to take advantage of the save rerolls. Still trying to figure out what I'm going to use as my "hammer", though.

 EnTyme wrote:
I absolutely think Warrior will have a place in the meta. They're one of the most durable battleline units out there, and they can even hold up decently against MW spam. I know I plan on running 15-man units to take advantage of the save rerolls. Still trying to figure out what I'm going to use as my "hammer", though.

That is exactly where I am at as well. I think 15 warriors is a good compromise of points, wieldyness and durability. My hope is with a bit of luck the Warriors can keep their save buff though one tun of fighting every now again. I am also considering having them supported by Sorcerer Lords when needed. I think Chaos Lords might be a better choice, but right now; all I have is Sorcerers. Which isn't too bad as they do offer a lot of support even if the Save buff aura is a little superfluous while the warriors are above 9 models.

I am with you on the hammer unit too. I only really have Chaos Knights ready right now, but I am not really seeing what their standout role is with my army right now save getting in trouble faster. I also have a box of Varanguard that I have been holding off building until I have the new tome so I can decide what weapon I want to go with. It sounds like ensorcelled weapons is my best bet even if I had that a little ordinary compared to the other two options. As already discussed, perhaps the Gorebeast Chariot could work as a hammer all be it a tricky glass one.

If I'm feeling mean I'll use a max-size unit of warriors with the Nurgle DP command ability slapped on them plus whatever else buffs go off, then charge as many things as I can.

"Fight me, I dare you."

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If I'm feeling mean I'll use a max-size unit of warriors with the Nurgle DP command ability slapped on them plus whatever else buffs go off, then charge as many things as I can.

"Fight me, I dare you."

Two 20-man units of Tzeentch Warriors with a Warshrine was the keystone of my 60-wound Archaon list.

The Nurgle dp command ability makes it so if they hit you on a 6, they take d3 MWs. So they take an average of 1MW for every three attacks and unlike 1st edition models must attack if they are in melee range. Many units will take more damage than they deal. It is also somewhat counter-meta because one does not particularly care if that slaanesh/fec/skaven player dumps a load of attacks on the unit before it gets to swing.

I played my first game with the new Battletome (sort of, the FLGS didn't get it in so I have just use the warscrolls). It was a 1500pt game vs. Maggotkin of Nurgle. See spoiler below for a picture of my army rather than listing here. My 15 Warriors groups did really good typically only losing a single model a fight or other kinda of damaging attack. Daemon Power worked crazy good for me where every attack basically land. Unfortunately, I was playing Nurgle which was like punching a slimy brick wall who saved most of it. At least they know what is like to hit a hard to shift unit with what I had. I think they were annoyed my all the re-roll failed rolls as well, but I think it just allowed the Warriors to compete.

I didn't realize it at the until making notes about my army that there isn't a Undivided Daemon Prince anymore which creates a really awkward situation for me with double Sorcerer Lords. I can't have everything Undivided like I want. However, going with Khorne (the next god I prefer) makes it so my Sorcerers aren't as good. It is surprisingly limiting and kinda forcing me to go with Nurgle (the mechanically best choice but my least favorite of the Chaos gods). I don't really like that since if feels really limiting given what model options I have right now. I am probably going to for Nurgle here on out since it doesn't really feel like there is a good Daemon Prince and Sorcerer with a Chaos Warrior backbone mark option other than Nurgle.

My knights did okay. I had a hard maneuvering all 10 of them as I put them behind my line of Warriors to give me a little time to choose which direction to commit. Even once I got them into combat I had a hard time getting all of them hit with their ensorcelled weapons. I think Varanguard would have worked better for what I was doing with them.

I haven't clue what to use the Furies for. In this game I just had them sitting in my opponent's deployment zone reducing the number of Plague points he was getting each round. I don't know it that was worth the 100 points I spent on them. I just had an extra 120 points and nothing I had models to spend them on.

Honestly, a Gorebeast chariot did much better for me than a traditional chariot

Furies are excellent objective snaggers, but they shouldn't actually be fighting unless they gank a wizard or something.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Furies are excellent objective snaggers, but they shouldn't actually be fighting unless they gank a wizard or something.

Yeah, I think I can see that. It is unlikely an opponent is going to use their early attack turns on them giving them some chance to escape. Maybe it is because I still playing below 2000 points, but seems like hefty investment in a faction that can't really afford the extravagant points expenditure though. If I happen to get some on Chaos boon table for free that might work. That is also part of why added them as I really want to stay Undivided.

Well you figure they move 12" charge 2d6, then retreat + run in the combat phase for another 12" +2d6. They can easily move 30" across the board or more in one turn. Just the potential to snag objectives like that will force the opponent to act accordingly, meaning they can do their job even if they don't actually do their job. Like units that can teleport.

You're better off getting something like chaos warriors to hold objectives