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If a tape measure, which is the standard measuring tool for 40k, required by the rules, says its 24", then its 24" for all rules purposes.

Tools of War
In order to fight a battle,
you will require a tape
measure and some dice.

You have no permission to use any other measuring equipment which can measure nanometers. So, while its theoretically impossible to place units exactly 24" apart, its practically possible with the use of the only permitted tool to measure distances in a 40k game, a tape measure.

 p5freak wrote:
If a tape measure, which is the standard measuring tool for 40k, required by the rules, says its 24", then its 24" for all rules purposes.

Tools of War
In order to fight a battle,
you will require a tape
measure and some dice.

You have no permission to use any other measuring equipment which can measure nanometers. So, while its theoretically impossible to place units exactly 24" apart, its practically possible with the use of the only permitted tool to measure distances in a 40k game, a tape measure.

That's a bit of a cop out though, as it's still up to interpretation on the part of the players and how the perceive the placement of the tape and how the markings (which have width) line up to the models.

It still requires consent of the players in how it is interpreted.

Speaking of pointless pedantry...

 Stux wrote:

That's a bit of a cop out though, as it's still up to interpretation on the part of the players and how the perceive the placement of the tape and how the markings (which have width) line up to the models.

It still requires consent of the players in how it is interpreted.

Your counter argument appears to be entirely "If the two players refuse to cooperate with each other, they can't play the game."

Because it either goes like this:
Player A positions some models. Then Player B gets out their tape measure, measures out 24", and places their models 24" away from those models. If Player A objects to the positioning, Player B adjusts the positions until Player A agrees that the positioning is correct.

Or it goes like this:
Player A positions some models. Then Player B gets out their tape measure, measures out 24", and places their models. Player A objects, begins reciting the arguments that you've presented, and player B says "If you don't want to play today, you can just say so."

Seriously. Because 'two players fail to agree on how to read the tape measure' is right up there with 'two players fail to agree how to read the dice' or 'two players fail to agree to a point limit or the scenario to play'.

This thread is taking the biscuit for ludicrousness now. Truly staggering.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
No, it’s not practically possible, but you can choose to agree otherwise. Agreeing a distance is different to reality is not the same thing as being practically possible. It’s an agreement to speed things up, I guess, like saying “these guys are 9.X” away” when teleporting in, so everyone is clear on a charge distance. We could probably do with less hair-splitting and attempted defining in this thread and more acknowledgment of basic physics and gaming conventions. If everyone tries to redefine we get nowhere!

- It’s physically and practically impossible to place models *exactly* 24” apart. That’s just physics.
- It is possible to agree otherwise by mutual consent, for whatever reason.
- It’s unlikely to ever come up. If it does, as it’s physically impossible you’ll need to be having a conversation with your opponent to agree something the rules don’t cover anyway. It’s your game.
- That’s all there is, really.

It's physically possible, but practically impossible.

Its physically impossible. Matter cannot exist at a specific location, because as you get down to smaller and smaller distances the notion of specific location becomes meaningless as quantum effects come in to play. Not to mention before you even get to that point that all matter vibrates anyway.

I know this all seems silly, but this is the bar to pass for something to be EXACTLY a given distance anyway. It requires some sort of gentleman's agreement/social contract to interpret, you cant purely go on empirical evidence.

 Stux wrote:
Its physically impossible. Matter cannot exist at a specific location, because as you get down to smaller and smaller distances the notion of specific location becomes meaningless as quantum effects come in to play. Not to mention before you even get to that point that all matter vibrates anyway.

I know this all seems silly, but this is the bar to pass for something to be EXACTLY a given distance anyway. It requires some sort of gentleman's agreement/social contract to interpret, you cant purely go on empirical evidence.

I guess I'll just quit playing tabletop wargames entirely. Up until this point, I was unaware that it was impossible to actually place models or measure distances. I wonder if selling my armies will help fund the particle physics degree I clearly need to be able to use a measuring tape.

"It's impossible to use this measuring device to place a model on the table within a reasonable degree of accuracy, so that we can say that it is where we intend it to be" is a pretty amazing position to take.

Especially when the sequence is going to be:
Step 1: Place model on table.
Step 2: Measure distance between the model and whatever reference frame you need, such as the model you're trying to be 24" away from.
Step 3: Adjust position, if necessary, and return to Step 2.

No one is disputing that two models, placed without trying, are unlikely to end up exactly a distance apart without someone trying to achieve that result. And if you don't want the situation to happen, it's easy enough to prevent it by deploying a fraction of an inch back from the 24" boundary.

And please do remember that the FAQ says:

Q: What does within 1" mean? Does it mean any distance up to 1", or does it mean any distance up to and including 1"?
A: It means any distance up to and including 1".

(page 7 of the rulebook FAQ, version 1.6)

So the developers certainly do believe in the possibility, or even the feasibility, of a measurement coming out a whole number of inches.

 Stux wrote:
Its physically impossible. Matter cannot exist at a specific location, because as you get down to smaller and smaller distances the notion of specific location becomes meaningless as quantum effects come in to play. Not to mention before you even get to that point that all matter vibrates anyway.

I know this all seems silly, but this is the bar to pass for something to be EXACTLY a given distance anyway. It requires some sort of gentleman's agreement/social contract to interpret, you cant purely go on empirical evidence.

But it's not an issue of matter existing at a specific place at a specific time. Measuring from one matter to another is an issue of relative distance and not an issue of absolute placement.

This is beyond silly because you're making claims of truth that which you do not understand yourself. First and foremost, in quantum physics, things don't actually "exist" in the conventional sense within the space-time continuum so your entire argument is moot. Second, matter can be at a exactly given distance away from each other at specific times (actually happens all the time - that's how atoms arrange themselves via attraction), just as matters can coexist at the same "place" at the same time. Furthermore, the realm of quantum physics is bound within a specific border beyond in which it ceases to work, just as how Newtonian physics ceases to function at a quantum level.

The only "gentlemen's agreement" you need to arrive at is to stay within the realms of classical mechanics and not get "silly" with this quantum physics shenanigans.

All of this is completely irrelevant to playing and measuring in a 40k game, stop it.

Judging by the amount of alerts this topic is spawning I'd say we're done here.