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roboemperor wrote:
Dawn of War says Necrons turn Imperial Guardsmen into Necron Warriors.
Are there any other instances of non-pariahs turning into necrons?

Say whaaaaaa? I don't remember this, although it HAS been a long time since I played Dark Crusade or Soulstorm.
In any case, the games aren't exactly canon - they were written by the developers, not by GW themselves, and while they clearly come from a place of love there's some artistic license in there for good measure too.

 Super Ready wrote:
Say whaaaaaa? I don't remember this, although it HAS been a long time since I played Dark Crusade or Soulstorm.
In any case, the games aren't exactly canon - they were written by the developers, not by GW themselves, and while they clearly come from a place of love there's some artistic license in there for good measure too.

All officialy licenced wh40k is canon unless specifically said to be a what if story.

Shas'O Kais, a character from Dark Crusade, is also in the novel War of Secrets where he kicks an entire Astartes chapter's ass by himself.

Dawn of War is also quite old, predating the retcons of the 5th edition.

In Gladius, the Tau were in the warp and your ship was saved by a "many-handed" warp entity and thrown to Gladius.

What is this many-handed warp entity?

 Super Ready wrote:

roboemperor wrote:
Dawn of War says Necrons turn Imperial Guardsmen into Necron Warriors.
Are there any other instances of non-pariahs turning into necrons?

Say whaaaaaa? I don't remember this, although it HAS been a long time since I played Dark Crusade or Soulstorm.
In any case, the games aren't exactly canon - they were written by the developers, not by GW themselves, and while they clearly come from a place of love there's some artistic license in there for good measure too.

The canon parts of the games are canon; but the Necron ending of Dark Crusade and Soulstorm aren't canon - the Marines and Orks win respectively.

Also, the Necron victory over the Imperial Guard in Soulstorm doesn't actually say that the Guardsmen are turned into Necrons - only that the day after the battle the bodies of the humans are gone, and there are a bunch of new Warriors and Monoliths int heir place.


In Severed, Setekh's skolopendra (hunting beasts) were transferred into mechanical bodies, so there is precedent for non-Necrontyr undergoing at least a form of biotransference.

So Marine squads are from 5-10 Marines strong. Like Tactical Squad is by default 5 Marines strong but can be increased to 10 Marines strong.

Which in canon lore is the default Codex compliant size for a squad, five or ten Astartes?

 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
So Marine squads are from 5-10 Marines strong. Like Tactical Squad is by default 5 Marines strong but can be increased to 10 Marines strong.
Which in canon lore is the default Codex compliant size for a squad, five or ten Astartes?

10 default as dictated by the Codex Astartes - but the option to combat squad into 2x5 has rules and fluff support going all the way back to 2nd edition, too. The idea was that the second combat squad's leader - literally called the "squad leader" - was basically a Sergeant in training.

So where would Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Lion El Johnson have stood in the argument of breaking up the Legions?

 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
So where would Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Lion El Johnson have stood in the argument of breaking up the Legions?

In my opinion, Sanguinius would have been personally opposed, but would agree that it was the right course of action in the end. Ferrus Manus would violently disagree with the breaking up of the Legions, and as for The Lion, who can tell with how broken his psyche was at the end of the Heresy.

Question.

Most Marine Chapters and indeed most Imperial Guard regiments seem to recruit from single biome worlds. I get that the "theme" of each unit requires it, Space Wolves need a Viking style, Valhalla needs ice warriors for winter gear and blah blah but how often are single biome worlds found?

With Earth as a standard we've got everything from Tallarn Desert, ice bound tundras, jungles, landlocked steppes, archipelagos...

This has some bearing on my home brew IG and SM. Both are recruited from the same planet, but because I'm a bit of an eclectic collector more than modeller or player I've got a mix and match of Space Wolves, Ultras, Thousand Sons, Catachan, Cadian, Praetorians, Sisters of Battle... so I need some way of mixing them all together "canonically".

Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.

I think Single Biome Worlds are rare, but typically a world appears to follow a set style that dominates their biomes. Plus we typically only get a very short glance at a world in many stories and often only one region so they can appear quiet monoculture. Whilst if you get a longer story the world often develops more because the story has more time to get to new places and show the variation.

 Tyran wrote:
Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.

I wonder if it's a side-effect of terraforming (and we know Fenris was engineered to be that way).

Kayback wrote:
Question.

Most Marine Chapters and indeed most Imperial Guard regiments seem to recruit from single biome worlds. I get that the "theme" of each unit requires it, Space Wolves need a Viking style, Valhalla needs ice warriors for winter gear and blah blah but how often are single biome worlds found?

With Earth as a standard we've got everything from Tallarn Desert, ice bound tundras, jungles, landlocked steppes, archipelagos...

This has some bearing on my home brew IG and SM. Both are recruited from the same planet, but because I'm a bit of an eclectic collector more than modeller or player I've got a mix and match of Space Wolves, Ultras, Thousand Sons, Catachan, Cadian, Praetorians, Sisters of Battle... so I need some way of mixing them all together "canonically".

An SM chapter will, in fluff, be monoculture. There’s only a thousand of them and they’re taken and trained from a very young age.
A world’s Guard regiments will typically be trained together, resulting in uniform... uniforms.

I mean, you could always run with counts-as Deathwatch rules, and handwave it as a grab-bag marine force of a handful of units that got isolated somewhere.

There was an old (3rd?) idea for a Marine Crusade force, where every squad could be from a different Chapter.

 DalekCheese wrote:

An SM chapter will, in fluff, be monoculture. There’s only a thousand of them and they’re taken and trained from a very young age.

A world’s Guard regiments will typically be trained together, resulting in uniform... uniforms.

I'm handwaving that away as the in-country-too-long vets (Catachan), the noobs (Cadians), various "Special Forces" (Praetorians = Colour Guard, Vostroyans = Grenadiers, Kasrkin/Storm Troopers = Storm Troopers).

The SM chapter is mostly mono, It's mostly animal hide and wolf pelts. I've used various bits of Chaos Warriors (WHFB) and Chaos Marines (Thousand Sons pieces mixed in here and there) to go for a more barbaric and eclectic mix, but still loyal. Death Watch heavy on the iconography (Because it is pretty). It's quite amazing what you can unify with a single palette.

Thanks for the replies though. I'm likely never to fanfic my HomeBrew. If I play again outside of my own family I'll probably "counts as Space Wolves" or something as that's what many of them are.

 Tyran wrote:
Realistically speaking, single biome worlds should be extremely rare.

But lore wise? I'm honestly unsure, fiction loves their single biome worlds.

In the case of 40K, you can always blame it on imperfect terraforming attempts during the Dark Age of Technology. Maybe some unfathomable nano-system or contraption deep below the crust keeps the planet as locked into a single biome as its relation to its sun allows for? Maybe many of the ice and desert worlds are remnants of the Age of Strife? Maybe planetary climate systems were hacked and set to roast or freeze its inhabitants instead of providing comfortable temperate forest and plains. If a world has its defence guns up then maybe you can't bomb it but you do have a newly discovered security vulnerability.

Even in such scenarios you wouldn't have a single biome.

E.g. a desert world would be only inhabitable on the poles, while the equatorial zone would be a literal death zone.

And the opposite would be true for an ice world.

roboemperor wrote:
In Gladius, the Tau were in the warp and your ship was saved by a "many-handed" warp entity and thrown to Gladius.

What is this many-handed warp entity?

There was a BL novel (don't remember which) which said that the Tau Empire's collective belief in the Greater Good had created a "Greater Good" deity, which appeared as a many-handed Tau Celestial with an expressionless mask (think a Hindu deity of some sort).

That fluff was mostly badly received, because the idea that such a numerically tiny faction as the Tau Empire are capable of creating Warp Gods (nevermind the fact that the Tau themselves have almost no psychic presence) doesn't really fit - if it worked like this, then the Emperor should have risen to godhood many, many times over the last 10,000 years. And of course the Eldar, being dozens of magnitudes more psychically gifted then the Tau, should be busy churning out gods on a regular basis.

I was under the impression that this piece of lore had quietly been dropped.

 Tyran wrote:
Even in such scenarios you wouldn't have a single biome.

E.g. a desert world would be only inhabitable on the poles, while the equatorial zone would be a literal death zone.

And the opposite would be true for an ice world.

In the reality it is extremely difficult to have a single biome world, due to the fact that a lot of conditions must be verified simultaneously: the orientation of the planet's axis, the distance between the planet and its sun, the distribution of the world's land surfaces, the intensity of the solar activity and so on. But generally speaking we could say if a planet were enough distant from its sun and its continents are located at its poles, then that planet should have a polar biome. Instead if a planet were enough near to its sun and if all its landmasses were located between the tropics, then that planet should be a tropical world, if it those landmasses were islands or it should be a desert world, if those lands would be gathered together in a single supercontinent.

 Esmer wrote:

roboemperor wrote:
In Gladius, the Tau were in the warp and your ship was saved by a "many-handed" warp entity and thrown to Gladius.

What is this many-handed warp entity?

There was a BL novel (don't remember which) which said that the Tau Empire's collective belief in the Greater Good had created a "Greater Good" deity, which appeared as a many-handed Tau Celestial with an expressionless mask (think a Hindu deity of some sort).

That fluff was mostly badly received, because the idea that such a numerically tiny faction as the Tau Empire are capable of creating Warp Gods (nevermind the fact that the Tau themselves have almost no psychic presence) doesn't really fit - if it worked like this, then the Emperor should have risen to godhood many, many times over the last 10,000 years. And of course the Eldar, being dozens of magnitudes more psychically gifted then the Tau, should be busy churning out gods on a regular basis.

I was under the impression that this piece of lore had quietly been dropped.

I think we can hypothesize this "God of the Greater Good" is a lesser deity, but it will be able to become more and more powerful as other alien races were converted to the philosophy of the Greater Good.

The Greater Good God is an intrinsic part of the 4th sphere lore, it is here to stay.

Although funnily enough the god is more a product of the more physically active client species of the Tau than the Tau themselves.

Would the Imperium be likely to accept loyal clones of traitor Primarchs into their ranks? Like there is a clone of Fulgrim who has lots of regrets on what his real self has done.

 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Would the Imperium be likely to accept loyal clones of traitor Primarchs into their ranks? Like there is a clone of Fulgrim who has lots of regrets on what his real self has done.

Maybe they'll accept the clone's honest regrets before muder-purging him in holy flames for being both a traitor AND a clone and thus EXTRA-heretical. That's a big maybe though.

 Tyzarion_Kronius wrote:
Would the Imperium be likely to accept loyal clones of traitor Primarchs into their ranks? Like there is a clone of Fulgrim who has lots of regrets on what his real self has done.

No, because they wouldn't accept them.

And even ignoring that, the Primarchs were, intentionally, created with flaws. A clone of Fulgrim would, without fail, fall down the same path of "I love the Emperor, the Emperor doesn't love me, feth it, time to worship Chaos!"

It's all but confirmed that the Heresy was manufactured to cull the Astartes the same way the Thunder Warriors were culled. The Emperor just didn't plan well enough. Or maybe this was his plan all along!

If I remember correctly in the novel Dark Imperium someone suggested to create some primaris marines using also the geneseed of the traitor primarchs (and/or the geneseed of the unknown ones), but Reboot Gilligan refused, so I think the answer is no.

The_Grim_Angel wrote:
If I remember correctly in the novel Dark Imperium someone suggested to create some primaris marines using also the geneseed of the traitor primarchs (and/or the geneseed of the unknown ones), but Reboot Gilligan refused, so I think the answer is no.

Though, on new loyal 'traitor' primaris chapters, I can see Cawl doing it anyway somewhere remote just to see how they work out. If he set up a facility in the Imperium Nihilius and just didn't bother to tell Roboute about it... he'd get his experimental data, and no one in that area would spend too much time questioning reinforcements.

Science can't be stalled by one man, Regent Lord or no.

Maybe it is a silly question, but do you know if the thunder warriors had families and children?
I haven't found any information about that question and I'm curious.

The_Grim_Angel wrote:
Maybe it is a silly question, but do you know if the thunder warriors had families and children?
I haven't found any information about that question and I'm curious.

we know so little about them, its not stated, but given their nature as disposable shock troops, i'd suggest no, at least not post-modification.

Thunder Warriors were "created from adult male supporters of the Emperor rather than adolescents" according to a wiki article. If they were indeed made from Adults, then there's a chance that they had families and children before becoming a Thunder Warrior. However, after the transformation, there isn't anything that explains their physical... capabilities in that regard. It may be safe to assume that, since they're the basis for Space Marines, albiet far more unstable, there is a chance for it to go either way, depending on particular Thunder Warriors. Or, go the other way and say that they're sterile like the Space Marines.