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I thought I'd try and bring this subject to light, even though it's not that big of a deal, but why is Abaddon the Despoiler as big as Roboute Guilliman in terms of size? He was a Chaos Space Marine in Terminator Armor, but has suddenly gone 'super-chaos-beyond-primaris-space-marine'. In addition, rules wise, Abaddon the Despoiler is much larger than a Primaris Space Marine, yet has the keyword <Terminator>, and therefore can fit inside a Chaos Land Raider, taking up two slots, but not a single Primaris Space Marines can enter into a Land Raider. Thoughts?

Abaddon has ALWAYS been described as being a very large individaul, even for marines

BrianDavion wrote:
Abaddon has ALWAYS been described as being a very large individaul, even for marines

And on top of that, is now full of warp power and Gifts, which generally makes someone even larger. And his armor is bulky.

As far as him being able to ride in a Land Raider and Primaris not, this is a Primaris issue, not a Abaddon issue.

Yeah, Primaris transport segregation is a lore thing as I understand it. Something to do with power couplings or something. (Which obviously is just a justification for a sales thing, but GW gonna GW.)

First, Abaddon is not as big as Guilliman, look at what level his head is. Second, he should be. It was rumoured that Abaddon was the clone of Horus. Whether or not it is true (probably isn't) it is something many marines believed. Thus he must have looked like he could have been a clone of Horus. This all of course made more sense before Black Library decided that Primarchs were stupidly large giant freaks and GW unfortunately went along with that puerile idiocy.

 Psionara wrote:
'. In addition, rules wise, Abaddon the Despoiler is much larger than a Primaris Space Marine, yet has the keyword <Terminator>, and therefore can fit inside a Chaos Land Raider, taking up two slots, but not a single Primaris Space Marines can enter into a Land Raider. Thoughts?

Can't sell new transports if old ones will do

It makes sense that size wouldnt matter for Abbadon riding in a daemonic vehicle. who knows what weird gak is going on inside a slannesh possesed landraider? for all we know Abbadons personal ride might have a pocket of the warp inside so he could be gigantic and still fit.

But totally Primaris issue. Primarchs can ride in Landraiders no problem so.....

BrianDavion wrote:
Abaddon has ALWAYS been described as being a very large individaul, even for marines

Marine 7 feet, termi 8 feet, primarc 9, primarc in termi armour 10. Abbadon was pretty huge to equal primarch. But then again warp

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Abaddon has ALWAYS been described as being a very large individaul, even for marines

Marine 7 feet, termi 8 feet, primarc 9, primarc in termi armour 10. Abbadon was pretty huge to equal primarch. But then again warp

except he's shorter then Gulliman. that said humans can range in size, yes it's rare to be more then 6 and a half feet tall and only truely exceptional people are taller then 6 foot 6, but marines are, by defiition recruited from the exceptional.

tneva82 wrote:
Marine 7 feet...

Garviel Loken was about 8'2" in his power armour.

In the Horus Heresy books, Abaddon is described to reaching up to Horus' shoulder and being taller than the other members of the Mournival.
Considering how Horus is described to be (slightly) taller than Gulliman and Abaddon wearing a suit of terminator armor, portions seem to be pretty close to how they should be.
Also note that Moratrion minus wings is very close in size to Gulliman and is still larger than Abaddon.

Fun fact: Roboute Gulliman cannot ride any transports because he is lacking the infantry keyword.

Mortarian is described in The Lords of Silence as having become gigantic in his decrepitude.

Well, his model doesn't reflect that. Unless you count his wings, of course.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Primarchs can ride in Landraiders no problem so.....

Um. No they cannot. Must be INFANTRY to ride in a LR. All Primarchs are MONSTER.

But also as others have noted, Abaddon is NOT quite as big as Guilliman. G-man is a good head+ taller and Abby has a large trophy wrack making up the size difference

-

Yeah, also isn't Guilliman just like a futurama head in a jar on top of a suit of armor at this point?

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, also isn't Guilliman just like a futurama head in a jar on top of a suit of armor at this point?

He’s not. He can take off his armour now, despite Cawl telling him not to.

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Abaddon has ALWAYS been described as being a very large individaul, even for marines

Marine 7 feet, termi 8 feet, primarc 9, primarc in termi armour 10. Abbadon was pretty huge to equal primarch. But then again warp

except he's shorter then Gulliman. that said humans can range in size, yes it's rare to be more then 6 and a half feet tall and only truely exceptional people are taller then 6 foot 61, but marines are, by defiition recruited from the exceptional.

I'm glad someone besides me think that I am exceptional.

 Grimtuff wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, also isn't Guilliman just like a futurama head in a jar on top of a suit of armor at this point?

He’s not. He can take off his armour now, despite Cawl telling him not to.

I love how much of the early primaris lore is just quietly getting noped. The "primaris marines are so perfect they have no gene flaws", Guilliman not being allowed to poop, Greyfax...being a thing that exists, Cypher having his big special sword, the grey knights guy....grand champion Volder? Voldo? Skippy McGMNDK Conversion Fodder. Heck, in-game Ynnari are practically squatted at this point, they got their joke of a codex supplement reprinted right on the heels of GW gaking the SM supplements onto the playerbase at large. Celestine is a shell of her former self because gotta sell the new named characters.

Is there anything from the Rising Storm era that isn't currently being Fading Whimper'd?

Racerguy180 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Abaddon has ALWAYS been described as being a very large individaul, even for marines

Marine 7 feet, termi 8 feet, primarc 9, primarc in termi armour 10. Abbadon was pretty huge to equal primarch. But then again warp

except he's shorter then Gulliman. that said humans can range in size, yes it's rare to be more then 6 and a half feet tall and only truely exceptional people are taller then 6 foot 61, but marines are, by defiition recruited from the exceptional.

I'm glad someone besides me think that I am exceptional.

if you're taller then 6 and a half feet tall, you are, strictly speaking, a physicly exceptional specimum.

remember the average height of a human is only five and a half feet

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Abaddon-and-Loken

Doesn't look big enough to be a "clone of Horus", looks more like a pretty bog-standard Cataphractii-armoured Praetor to me.

I'd rather he were smaller but the "stretched by Chaos" is consistent enough with my understanding of the setting that it doesn't bug me much.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Abaddon-and-Loken

Doesn't look big enough to be a "clone of Horus", looks more like a pretty bog-standard Cataphractii-armoured Praetor to me.

I'd rather he were smaller but the "stretched by Chaos" is consistent enough with my understanding of the setting that it doesn't bug me much.

Don't think that diorama is a good comparison for scale. It doesn't even get the size difference of regular marine power armor vs a terminator correct, let alone an extra big terminator. It looks like they based that on the old, 2nd ed sized Abaddon or something.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, also isn't Guilliman just like a futurama head in a jar on top of a suit of armor at this point?

He’s not. He can take off his armour now, despite Cawl telling him not to.

I love how much of the early primaris lore is just quietly getting noped. Guilliman not being allowed to poop

Is there anything from the Rising Storm era that isn't currently being Fading Whimper'd?

Do you think Marines just regularly take off their suits to use the facilities?