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Any model that looks like it will crumble when I travel and have to bring it to the shop.

Disco Lords are the new CSM hotness, but there is no way that one model (let alone 3) would survive a few trips in my foam case to and fro the club.

 Overread wrote:
Plus popular metals keep their value and even increase in value. Diaz Deamonettes sell for insane amounts on ebay. You have to use every possible miss-listing name to try and hunt down any that don't instantly get a lot of attention from bidders. Even then you've got to cross your fingers or just bite the bullet and accept the high price.

I'm honestly surprised that GW hasn't pushed out a bigger update to Eldar, they are in one of the worst positions in terms of finecast in core units. A good few other 40K armies are now sitting with finecast mostly just in the leaders. Then again Eldar is just really behind the times - very old plastics where they've got them for guardians and finecast for most of their aspect troops.

Banshee's are a great step forward, but there's so many more to go.

Speaking of Diaz deamonettes, the current deamonettes are the reason I haven't started a slannesh demons army. In my eyes it's the only blight on a beautiful model range.

I really wish they would do Diaz deamonettes on made to order one more time. They did the inquisition stuff twice now on made to order, why not these?

Tetsu0 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Plus popular metals keep their value and even increase in value. Diaz Deamonettes sell for insane amounts on ebay. You have to use every possible miss-listing name to try and hunt down any that don't instantly get a lot of attention from bidders. Even then you've got to cross your fingers or just bite the bullet and accept the high price.

I'm honestly surprised that GW hasn't pushed out a bigger update to Eldar, they are in one of the worst positions in terms of finecast in core units. A good few other 40K armies are now sitting with finecast mostly just in the leaders. Then again Eldar is just really behind the times - very old plastics where they've got them for guardians and finecast for most of their aspect troops.

Banshee's are a great step forward, but there's so many more to go.

Speaking of Diaz deamonettes, the current deamonettes are the reason I haven't started a slannesh demons army. In my eyes it's the only blight on a beautiful model range.

I really wish they would do Diaz deamonettes on made to order one more time. They did the inquisition stuff twice now on made to order, why not these?

Honestly I don't get why GW doesn't do them more often as well, they sell for so much on ebay that GW can't be ignoring the potential huge profits they could get from them.

That said I do actually like the current deamonette kit in terms of its modular nature. Seekers, chariots and warriors all can interchange heads, bodies and arms without any problem. I do detest the army slots - I hate cleaning mould lines off hair and the faces and bodies are not as "beautiful" as the Diaz ones. That said the current ones do fit the lore for them whilst the Diaz are more the deamonettes as they might be during their more "alluring" phase before the mask lifts. That said I do prefer the relative scales on the seekers. Current seekers and their riders are a bit ungainly. The rider seems to big and the pose of both rider and seeker are quite plain. Granted this allows for the high moduarity, but they clearly suffer compared to the diaz where they are in a far more dynamic riding pose or some of the newer mounts that GW has done.

That said I really can't see GW updating the slaanesh warrior plastics for a long while yet. I'd wager we'll see new mortal Slaanesh models long before GW addresses the demons.

There's this little thing called 8th edition that is preventing me from really enjoying the hobby. Hard to justify starting a new army when I can't really enjoy the ones I already have.

 Vankraken wrote:
There's this little thing called 8th edition that is preventing me from really enjoying the hobby. Hard to justify starting a new army when I can't really enjoy the ones I already have.

This is actually a big thing.
However, it appears that the 9th edition is already on its way - right after the release of the remaining Psychic Awakening books at the midst of 2020. But its just a rumor.

I keep wanting to start either Custodes or Tau or Eldar

But I just started Orks and barely have enough time to dedicate to my Blood Ravens, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Chaos Space Marines, or Tyranids.

Also I have no more storage space for another army. Orks Nids and Chaos are currently in shoeboxes.

Primaris Marines are stopping me from playing Marines. They don't look like marines to me. Their fluff is gak, the don't have close combat units, they aren't blinged out like they should be. They don't have Terminators or Assault Marines. Their scale messes with the old marines too much. I can't bring myself to buy old marines because they are now obsolete and will be removed at some point in the future. And I can't bring myself to buy primaris because I hate everything about them. I want a Black Templars army, and a Grey Knights army, but I'm stuck.

I would start Eldar if they just updated all the sculpts. I can't believe how old some of those sculpts are now.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
Primaris Marines are stopping me from playing Marines. They don't look like marines to me. Their fluff is gak, the don't have close combat units, they aren't blinged out like they should be. They don't have Terminators or Assault Marines. Their scale messes with the old marines too much. I can't bring myself to buy old marines because they are now obsolete and will be removed at some point in the future. And I can't bring myself to buy primaris because I hate everything about them. I want a Black Templars army, and a Grey Knights army, but I'm stuck.

But… you don't have to use Primaris if you don't want to. And there's tons and tons of ways to justify why a SM force might not have any.

Are you worried that firstborn marines are going to be removed from the range or something like that?

But… you don't have to use Primaris if you don't want to. And there's tons and tons of ways to justify why a SM force might not have any.

Are you worried that firstborn marines are going to be removed from the range or something like that?

Yes, absolutely. No question in my mind. And as someone who sank thousands into warhammer fantasy, I'm not messing around with dead model lines anymore. (yes, I know they brought it back in some capacity that remains to be seen). Old Squat Marines also look terrible on the battle field in proportion to everything else now. I love the aesthetic, hate the proportions.

GW make lots of great models. I love so much of the hobby, but they lost my confidence when they killed Fantasy and created AoS and the Primaris line.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

But… you don't have to use Primaris if you don't want to. And there's tons and tons of ways to justify why a SM force might not have any.

Are you worried that firstborn marines are going to be removed from the range or something like that?

Yes, absolutely. No question in my mind. And as someone who sank thousands into warhammer fantasy, I'm not messing around with dead model lines anymore. (yes, I know they brought it back in some capacity that remains to be seen). Old Squat Marines also look terrible on the battle field in proportion to everything else now. I love the aesthetic, hate the proportions.

GW make lots of great models. I love so much of the hobby, but they lost my confidence when they killed Fantasy and created AoS and the Primaris line.

That's fair.

I personally think firstborn marines are going to stick around for a long while, since they're such an iconic part of 40k and a HUGE number of people would be very very angry if they were nixed, but… then again, GW apparently thought End Times was a perfectly reasonable thing to do (still angry at them about that), so I can definitely understand why someone who has no interest in Primaris would be worried.

And I definitely think the old SM models are going to be massively scaled back. Which makes me nervous about putting off my own Space Marine army. I want to do either Blood Angels or White Scars, but I'm scared that in a year or so, when I'm done my Drukhari and Sororitas and able to start a new project, the BA-specific squads, and the bikers and khan and WS upgrade sprues, might be gone.

On the plus side, I'm pretty sure Horus Heresy will be around for a long time to come. But… $$$$$ …

(though Horus Heresy WOULD give me an excuse to buy some of those lovely battle automata I've been wanting for ages to use alongside my AdMech as a 30k Mechanicum force… GOD I wish they'd release 40k rules for the Domitar and Thanatar)

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

Yes, absolutely. No question in my mind. And as someone who sank thousands into warhammer fantasy, I'm not messing around with dead model lines anymore. (yes, I know they brought it back in some capacity that remains to be seen). Old Squat Marines also look terrible on the battle field in proportion to everything else now. I love the aesthetic, hate the proportions.

So you think the old marines have bad proportions and refuse to use the new better proportioned marines GW makes? Makes perfect sense, mate!

Just put the old style helmets and some extra bling and bits on the Primaris and you can have the old style with the new proportions. Problem solved!

I think you are in the same boat as me to some degree.

My lack of interest in any of the new SM stuff has at last allowed me to focus on other armies, namely Dark Eldar and Sisters just like you.

At least I also have HH. I'm still building an 18,000 point Sons of Horus army. I'm currently at 9000 points.

I also kinda want to do a Blood Angels army for HH to match it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

So you think the old marines have bad proportions and refuse to use the new better proportioned marines GW makes? Makes perfect sense, mate!

Just put the old style helmets and some extra bling and bits on the Primaris and you can have the old style with the new proportions. Problem solved!

It does make perfect sense actually. I can't and won't build a Black Templars army without all tabards. And the tabards don't fit on the new torsos (not without a lot of work). There's not near enough bling on the basic model. I need skulls and filigrees literally everywhere.

Add on top of this, they won't have the new Primaris stats. Those are the stats all space marines should always have had.

The scale, the fluff, the models, the kits. None of it fits together the way it should. It's a clusterfeth of badness.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I think you are in the same boat as me to some degree.

My lack of interest in any of the new SM stuff has at last allowed me to focus on other armies, namely Dark Eldar and Sisters just like you.

Well, we're in a SIMILAR boat, anyway.. Especially in liking Sisters, Dark Eldar, and ridiculously baroque fanciness on marines, but… I actually do like a lot of the Primaris models. The trouble is just that there's not a lot of chapter-specific stuff for them yet, so they tend to look like a bit bland - or too Ultramarine - without a lot of conversion work. Converting generic space marines to a specific chapter or traitor legion is something I'm happy to do for a Kill Team, but for a whole army? Too much work and too much money.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:

It does make perfect sense actually. I can't and won't build a Black Templars army without all tabards. And the tabards don't fit on the new torsos (not without a lot of work). There's not near enough bling on the basic model. I need skulls and filigrees literally everywhere.

Yes, I can see how that would be a problem. It was a shame that they didn't release a Primaris BT upgrade rule with their recent rules update. Getting the old tabard bits to fit is indeed a tad tricky and requires some greenstuff works, and I can understand why one wouldn't want to do that for the whole army. Not that all Templars traditionally wear tabards.

Add on top of this, they won't have the new Primaris stats. Those are the stats all space marines should always have had.

Indeed, marines finally have proper stats. and BT can use the Primaris units to access those stats. Veteran Intercessors, Reivers and Aggressors are all very fitting for the BT. Though I agree that there aren't terribly many assaulty Primaris units and there should be more.

Just a thought about End Times and replacing model lines:

The Scion models are totally different from Kasrkin and the Cadian IG range is super old. What if they advanced the story with Abaddon crushing Cadia, turning it into a demon world, and replacing the Cadian IG models with a new IG model that looks more...modern? Slim down the lasgun into something more M4-ish, sculpt more wargear on the bodies, add a new small open topped transport a la the Ridgerunner, and put a heavy weapon in each box.

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Just a thought about End Times and replacing model lines:

The Scion models are totally different from Kasrkin and the Cadian IG range is super old. What if they advanced the story with Abaddon crushing Cadia, turning it into a demon world, and replacing the Cadian IG models with a new IG model that looks more...modern? Slim down the lasgun into something more M4-ish, sculpt more wargear on the bodies, add a new small open topped transport a la the Ridgerunner, and put a heavy weapon in each box.

Can some of them be women too, please, so that we're not stuck with all-male ranges of guys with exactly the same face supposedly representing the teeming, conscripted masses of an interstellar humanity? Kthx.

nataliereed1984 wrote:

 Fajita Fan wrote:
Just a thought about End Times and replacing model lines:

The Scion models are totally different from Kasrkin and the Cadian IG range is super old. What if they advanced the story with Abaddon crushing Cadia, turning it into a demon world, and replacing the Cadian IG models with a new IG model that looks more...modern? Slim down the lasgun into something more M4-ish, sculpt more wargear on the bodies, add a new small open topped transport a la the Ridgerunner, and put a heavy weapon in each box.

Can some of them be women too, please, so that we're not stuck with all-male ranges of guys with exactly the same face supposedly representing the teeming, conscripted masses of an intergalactic humanity? Kthx.

There are female cadians allready available, allbeit traitor only

Speaking of marines- I actually have a personal rule to never play marines, and it's by some calculation a dumb and minor rule.

I just don't like how much attention they have positive and negative along with the company focus on them. people kept bringing them up, even when i was a WHF fan and pouring over dwarves and Skaven that i got bothered by them even when i wasn't in their system. i like skaven enough to try and plan out this Skavencult army plan, but even though ive grown to like some marines, i still won't play them.

specifically, because of Rogal Dorn ive grown to enjoy the Imperial Fists. i also like some of the themes around the Deathwatch and Grey Knights. and yet, because they are space marines, i won't touch them, even if i could get the forces very easily. im about to flee into full xeno territory instead.

whats even funnier is that mechanically imperial fists are a solid match for me tactically. good range and not to many models are thing id like in my armies. but the recent primaris focus which i also don't like on top of the marine detail keeps me far, far away.

The fact that the Dark Eldar codex is a mess of three different armies with very narrow choices. I'm still nostalgiac for my warrior gunline back in 3rd ed, but there's no way I'm going to, in essence, buy 3 armies.

On a similar vein I thought I'd enjoy Necrons, but the basic Necron warriors are so boring I couldn't stand putting them together. Even with generic marines you have a choice of bits (and many 3rd party options). I feel like Necrons could use a refresh.

Real life syndrome, mainly.

Got a very small eldar army that is a supreme command detachment...but still waiting on the forthcoming plastic Jain Zar and Banshee kits to properly fill it out. It meant so much that I was ready to splash out on Blood of the Phoenix assuming £100, but £140 was just ridiculous, and refuse to spend that much.

Thought about a Ynnari army instead, but the rules are all over the shop - White Dwarf, Fracture of Biel-Tan, Phoenix Rising and then all three Eldar faction codices.

Would like to replace the Screamer Killer I had back in the early 90s but not forking out £55 for two.

Nothing minor preventing me, really.

1st, funds. I lost a job I'd had for 8 years, and haven't been able to get back in to the industry since.

2nd, focus. I am working with Warmachine right now doing Mercenaries. A difficult army to build properly.

3rd, rules. I dropped GW and sold my entire collection of models from them when they released a gack FAQ in 7th Edition which I knew would cause me to argue with my meta about not enforcing. I haven't seen too much in the latest rules to bring me back in.

Only thing to bring me back in is to be able to spend more time at the game store, and one can always get a 40K game in.

Failcast stopped me from collecting eldar.

I would have bought a dark elves aos army but needing to buy rulebook and handbook and codex to be allowed to know how to build an army turned me off.

I don't know if it's a minor thing, but GW's general business practices have more or less ensured I'm no longer a GW customer (with the exception of a few shadespire boxes I'll pick up for use in a dungeon crawl). I'm absolutely happy with them succeeding and being a successful company, but my GW days are more or less done.

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
Failcast stopped me from collecting eldar.

I would have bought a dark elves aos army but needing to buy rulebook and handbook and codex to be allowed to know how to build an army turned me off.

You know you can get all the warscrolls for the AoS models free off the GW website - they are listed on the rules/downloads tab for every model. The core rules are also up on the GW website for free - GW also released a smaller rulebook version for AoS recently which has many of the games core and some expansion rules inside it and is far more suitable for gaming tahn the big-rule-book.

You can also use the Warscroll builder on the GW website to build armies with, though without a battletome it can be somewhat confusing. However if you've a local store or club you might well be able to find a store copy or another player to have a read for a general view of the flavour of an army.


That said Dark Elves are not so much anything any more. There's Daughters of Khaine who use some of the old models and themes; meanwhile the rest of the Dark Elves are hiding out in the Cities of Sigmar - where you can use pure dark-elf models, but you'd likely want to bring some additional models from other divisions to back them up - humans, other aelves and dwarves.

I want Nids. I do not want to spend that much money or time. If I end up having the money I may buy a fully painted army but until then which will never happen I will wait. To be quite honest I have two expensive hobbies my cars and models

 Overread wrote:

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
Failcast stopped me from collecting eldar.

I would have bought a dark elves aos army but needing to buy rulebook and handbook and codex to be allowed to know how to build an army turned me off.

You know you can get all the warscrolls for the AoS models free off the GW website - they are listed on the rules/downloads tab for every model. The core rules are also up on the GW website for free - GW also released a smaller rulebook version for AoS recently which has many of the games core and some expansion rules inside it and is far more suitable for gaming tahn the big-rule-book.

You can also use the Warscroll builder on the GW website to build armies with, though without a battletome it can be somewhat confusing. However if you've a local store or club you might well be able to find a store copy or another player to have a read for a general view of the flavour of an army.


That said Dark Elves are not so much anything any more. There's Daughters of Khaine who use some of the old models and themes; meanwhile the rest of the Dark Elves are hiding out in the Cities of Sigmar - where you can use pure dark-elf models, but you'd likely want to bring some additional models from other divisions to back them up - humans, other aelves and dwarves.

Hey, Overread… you're pretty big on AoS, so I want to ask something really quick:

Do you think the Dark Elf ("Darkling Covens" or something?) and Wood Elf ("Wanderers"?) models in the Cities of Sigmar range are likely to stick around for awhile, or that they're going to keep on being pared down and replaced over time? And same question, but for Vampire Lords, Dire Wolves, Blood Knights, and Vargheists?

I'd like to start an AoS army at some point (probably won't be until 2021 though, since I've already got a lot of projects on my table right now), but one of the things "blocking" me for certain armies I'd otherwise be interested in is feeling really uncertain whether or not certain models I like will still be around in three years time. I'm one of the people who got pretty badly mauled by AoS already (I was a big fan of Bretonnians, Tomb Kings and Orcs & Goblins).

I don't want to invest in a "Wood Elf" Living City army or a "Vampire Counts" Legion of Blood army only for the remaining models with those aesthetics to get cut in the next Battletome, you know? Would instead just go with Skaven (Skryre and Eshin), Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth, Kharadron, or Beastclaw Raiders.

(Given my fondness for Drukhari, AdMech, Sisters, Blood Angels, and Orkz, it seems that regardless of game system, I always like unfriendly elves, skittery toxic/radioactive guys in robes, unseelie court fae stuff, steampunky tech, baroque goth stuff, vampires, and beefy barbarian guys )

 captain collius wrote:
I want Nids. I do not want to spend that much money or time. If I end up having the money I may buy a fully painted army but until then which will never happen I will wait. To be quite honest I have two expensive hobbies my cars and models

You have one expensive hobby. Cars. You have two time consuming hobbies.

 John Prins wrote:

 captain collius wrote:
I want Nids. I do not want to spend that much money or time. If I end up having the money I may buy a fully painted army but until then which will never happen I will wait. To be quite honest I have two expensive hobbies my cars and models

You have one expensive hobby. Cars. You have two time consuming hobbies.

True 40k is not quite on the same level as dropping 8k for an upgraded driveshaft, 7k for a turbo and 3 k In Handling mods. (Note I haven't done that yet but I might.)

An army runs a lot less until you get into Titan legions (full size)

 captain collius wrote:

True 40k is not quite on the same level as dropping 8k for an upgraded driveshaft, 7k for a turbo and 3 k In Handling mods. (Note I haven't done that yet but I might.)

Every day I thank the heavens that high-quality racing simulators exist.

nataliereed1984 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Shas'O'Ceris wrote:
Failcast stopped me from collecting eldar.

I would have bought a dark elves aos army but needing to buy rulebook and handbook and codex to be allowed to know how to build an army turned me off.

You know you can get all the warscrolls for the AoS models free off the GW website - they are listed on the rules/downloads tab for every model. The core rules are also up on the GW website for free - GW also released a smaller rulebook version for AoS recently which has many of the games core and some expansion rules inside it and is far more suitable for gaming tahn the big-rule-book.

You can also use the Warscroll builder on the GW website to build armies with, though without a battletome it can be somewhat confusing. However if you've a local store or club you might well be able to find a store copy or another player to have a read for a general view of the flavour of an army.


That said Dark Elves are not so much anything any more. There's Daughters of Khaine who use some of the old models and themes; meanwhile the rest of the Dark Elves are hiding out in the Cities of Sigmar - where you can use pure dark-elf models, but you'd likely want to bring some additional models from other divisions to back them up - humans, other aelves and dwarves.

Hey, Overread… you're pretty big on AoS, so I want to ask something really quick:

Do you think the Dark Elf ("Darkling Covens" or something?) and Wood Elf ("Wanderers"?) models in the Cities of Sigmar range are likely to stick around for awhile, or that they're going to keep on being pared down and replaced over time? And same question, but for Vampire Lords, Dire Wolves, Blood Knights, and Vargheists?

I'd like to start an AoS army at some point (probably won't be until 2021 though, since I've already got a lot of projects on my table right now), but one of the things "blocking" me for certain armies I'd otherwise be interested in is feeling really uncertain whether or not certain models I like will still be around in three years time. I'm one of the people who got pretty badly mauled by AoS already (I was a big fan of Bretonnians, Tomb Kings and Orcs & Goblins).

I don't want to invest in a "Wood Elf" Living City army or a "Vampire Counts" Legion of Blood army only for the remaining models with those aesthetics to get cut in the next Battletome, you know? Would instead just go with Skaven (Skryre and Eshin), Daughters of Khaine, Idoneth, Kharadron, or Beastclaw Raiders.

(Given my fondness for Drukhari, AdMech, Sisters, Blood Angels, and Orkz, it seems that regardless of game system, I always like unfriendly elves, skittery toxic/radioactive guys in robes, unseelie court fae stuff, steampunky tech, baroque goth stuff, vampires, and beefy barbarian guys )

It's utterly impossible to predict what models will stay and what will be replaced, especially for AoS which has bucked the trend right from launch for standard GW practice.
Cities is also very hard to predict for because whilst I have no doubt that it will stick around, its very hard to tell if GW is going to keep Cities as a 100% single army with different theme forces with; or if they'll steadily redesign the different races and factions to have some similar design asthetics (right now they are VERY different from each other); or even if they do what they've done with Legions of Nagash which is steadily splitting out parts of itself into new armies (noting that Legions of Nagash has remained as a single army unto itself through this process).

I really have no clue. I would say that many of the Cities models left are not all that old and are still good quality for many factions. So a good few I would expect to hang around for a fairly long time. Anything finecast is up for replacement. However I've still no idea what GW would do nor any ability to predict what they might.



What I'd "like" to see if GW steadily update old armies with replacement new sculpts (Seraphon and Skaven have huge legacy ranges that could do with an update to modern plastics); whilst armies like Flesheaters, Daughters of Khaine etc... I'd like to see get a handful of more models to really flesh them out into larger and more diverse armies with more of an identity to themselves. That's what I'd like to see for the current armies, but I've no way of knowing if GW agrees nor the timescale they might work with.


In the end I don't expect to see AoS 2.0 armies retired, I see the 2.0 launch as afirming up of the range as a regular army system from GW. That means new models; replacments for old models and the occasional loss of a model which will likely come alongside a new model.


As you're thinking of starting in 2021 I'd say nab any really iconic models you love the look of, especially if they are in metal or finecast; but otherwise I wouldn't worry too much and woudl see what the future entails when you get there.