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Oberron wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except you are making multiple rolls. You can only do substitute for 1 roll. So yeah if your hit roll consists multiple dices(no such weapon exists in game but future proof) you can swap more than one. As it is now 1.

If you claim all are one dice roll opponent can claim he saves them all with 1 dice roll. I like idea of saving all your attacks with 1 save. What with how cp reroll for example works.

Check fast dice wording. It says rollS. Plural. Not singular. Md works with singular. Now was plural singular or not? If unsure ask your english teacher

Your strawman aside MD does not say singular and in fact says one or more MD to use and each individual dice can be replaced.

Roll two dice at the same time. You made only one roll even though there was two of something.

The rule says you get to replace dice from a roll. Yes, you can replace multiple dice in one roll (best example: Charge roll), but you cannot replace dice from multiple rolls at the same time.Fast rolling does not turn multiple hit rolls into a single large hit roll. They are still multiple hit rolls, and you can only invoke an Act of Faith for ONE of those hit rolls.

Under fast rolling it says it's assumed you will make your attack rolls 1 at a time.

So if I'm firing 10 melta's, and choose to fast roll. I'm not making 1 roll of 10 attacks. I'm making 10 attack rolls at 1 time. So you can use MD on any 1 of those rolls.

This has now been FAQd

We can put it to bed now as they worded it generally: multiple attacks fast rolled do not count as "one roll" for any purpose.

Battle Primer wrote:
If this is the case, make all of the hit rolls at the same time, then all of the wound rolls.

Miracle Dice was quoted upthread as:

Before making a dice roll for a model or unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability, you can choose to use one or more of the dice from your Miracle dice pool instead

You are making all of the "hit rolls" at the same time. With 10 hit rolls at once, each of the ten is a hit roll.

Miracle Dice allows you to act before one of those rolls. You can use one or more dice from your Miracle dice pool *instead*.

The "of" clause for "instead of" is left out. Which means it's understood/effectively a preposition to the qualifier. The qualifier is "a dice roll". An unspecified "instead" therefore applies to that dice roll.

In theory, you could use that with Fast Rolling, but only for the dice roll you triggered on (colored dice or some other decider).

If it were allowed to affect a batch of dice rolls - such as all 10 attack rolls - the trigger would have to be plural or ambiguous ("Before rolling dice, [...]). Instead, it specifies a single dice roll.

If "instead" is not bound to "a dice roll", then what *is* it bound to? Can you use the dice instead of the To Wound roll? Can you use it for a charge roll later? Obviously not. "Instead" clearly binds the dice to a particular scope. That scope is clearly the specific "a dice roll" that triggered it.

Now, as for why it says "one or more" miracle dice; not all "a dice roll"s involve a single die. Charging, for instance, is a single dice roll with two dice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: Wow, didn't realize there was a second page, and this was already answered. Sorry.

 Stux wrote:
This has now been FAQd

We can put it to bed now as they worded it generally: multiple attacks fast rolled do not count as "one roll" for any purpose.

Good glad it is settled. Thread can be locked

I'm just glad I only bought one set of Miracle Dice!

To my opponent: "I'm going to roll these 20 bolter shots separately..."

Wow...... this significantly changes the whole concept of miracle dice.......

It actually makes it almost useless as a mechanic cause you can only do at most one change in a chain of attacks. Which is basically useless.

Miracle dice are worthless when you can only change one of those 10 unsaved wounds on your unit. Your still gonna die cause of the other nine you have to roll.

If miracle dice are gonna be this gimped, why put it in the first place?

mchammadad wrote:
Wow...... this significantly changes the whole concept of miracle dice.......

It actually makes it almost useless as a mechanic cause you can only do at most one change in a chain of attacks. Which is basically useless.

Miracle dice are worthless when you can only change one of those 10 unsaved wounds on your unit. Your still gonna die cause of the other nine you have to roll.

If miracle dice are gonna be this gimped, why put it in the first place?

Are you serious ? You really thought you could make 20 bolter shots, or 10 melta shots, auto hit/wound with one free miracle dice ??

mchammadad wrote:
Wow...... this significantly changes the whole concept of miracle dice.......

It actually makes it almost useless as a mechanic cause you can only do at most one change in a chain of attacks. Which is basically useless.

Miracle dice are worthless when you can only change one of those 10 unsaved wounds on your unit. Your still gonna die cause of the other nine you have to roll.

If miracle dice are gonna be this gimped, why put it in the first place?

Even if fast rolling, you do not have permission to fast roll saving throws; these must be allocated and saving throws made one at a time. There's no way you wouild have used one miracle die to save against all 10 unsaved wounds. This was true even before the FAQ. Were you expecting one miracle die to be able to apply to every single roll you made during a turn?

mchammadad wrote:
Wow...... this significantly changes the whole concept of miracle dice.......

It actually makes it almost useless as a mechanic cause you can only do at most one change in a chain of attacks. Which is basically useless.

Miracle dice are worthless when you can only change one of those 10 unsaved wounds on your unit. Your still gonna die cause of the other nine you have to roll.

If miracle dice are gonna be this gimped, why put it in the first place?

Hardly changing seeing it always worked like that.

And in practice it has proven to be quite useful. You are just focusing on wrong view of it

You need to look at Miracle Dice as a preemptive Command Re-Roll. Rather than waiting to fail and then spending a CP for a chance to succeed, you decide "I really want to succeed" and then spend the appropriate Miracle Dice to do just that.

A Command Re-roll will not do anything massive by itself, but can easily be the difference between winning the game and losing if used at the right moment. Now think about how many free Command Re-Rolls you get per game via Miracle Dice.

I would look at the use of miracle dice the same as an attack that has a different "characteristic".

I have a multitude of coloured dice (a throwback from my Battletech days) so I would roll a colour corresponding to the weapon / model used so you can differentiate the roll but still roll everything together.

It is a viable option and is much faster.

I would use a black or gold die to represent what is designated for potential swap-out for the miracle die.

Yeah, replacing a "pool" of dice never looked like an option to me the way the rules were worded.

Anyway, it is an option.

 Talizvar wrote:
I would look at the use of miracle dice the same as an attack that has a different "characteristic".

I have a multitude of coloured dice (a throwback from my Battletech days) so I would roll a colour corresponding to the weapon / model used so you can differentiate the roll but still roll everything together.

It is a viable option and is much faster.

I would use a black or gold die to represent what is designated for potential swap-out for the miracle die.

Yeah, replacing a "pool" of dice never looked like an option to me the way the rules were worded.

Anyway, it is an option.

Miracle dice are swapped in before rolling, though. You can't replace the dice after you've rolled them.