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2020/01/23 12:39:32
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Tyel wrote: I might have misunderstood Grey Knights, its not my faction, but isn't the clutch play going to be doing both?
Break out the smites, switch over with your last caster, then have 10 stormbolters get the damage output of 2 riptides for a turn (plus psilencers and cannons etc), then switch back at the start of your psyhic phase and drop the smites again.
Its perhaps a bit clunky, but doesn't seem that unrealistic to do.
The weakness of smiting is the range (can be buffed etc, but still.)
The melee tide would seem to be the one where you are left going "this doesn't feel that great?"
It's unreliable in the IGOUGO system. It's better just to stick to either more Smites (which would really affect the Riptide too) or Cover to really force the Tau to spend even more Markerlights.
What the feth does IGOUGO have to do with anything? Between your bizarre attempts to crowbar IGOUGO into every thread and Martel's "I can't kil hordes" comments I'm starting to wonder if the pair of you are just bots regurgitating the same phrases over and over again.
The reason you don't Smite the Riptide has already been pointed out: Smite doesn't work that way, especially when Tau's thing is spamming Drones as screens. I think you're completely missing the point, either wilfully or because of some blinkered approach to the game. Nobody's claiming the double damage Smites aren't great for GK, they absolutely are. What people are disputing is your assertion that there's no reason to use the Psi weapon buffing tide and your absolutist approach to looking at the rules. There are definitely situations where you want to get the extra Psi weapon damage and GK now have the flexibility to do both in one turn anyway, but apparently that doesn't work because of the IGOUGO system for...reasons.
To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/01/23 15:11:10
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
Luckily they're not lacking for psykers. I'm not a GK player, but I'm pretty sure I'd have two psykers with that power in a list, it's pretty key.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
2020/01/23 15:20:07
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
Luckily they're not lacking for psykers. I'm not a GK player, but I'm pretty sure I'd have two psykers with that power in a list, it's pretty key.
They're not lacking for Psykers but they're lacking for Characters, which is a MAJOR difference.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/01/23 15:24:52
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: They're not lacking for Psykers but they're lacking for Characters, which is a MAJOR difference.
Not terribly interested in delving into this argument except to say I disagree. So continue your rant sir.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
2020/01/23 15:30:33
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: They're not lacking for Psykers but they're lacking for Characters, which is a MAJOR difference.
Not terribly interested in delving into this argument except to say I disagree. So continue your rant sir.
That's a very convoluted way to say "I forgot the Tide power isn't automatic and i can't just stick it everywhere to ensure success" but okay. You do you, boo.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/01/23 15:33:34
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Tyel wrote: I might have misunderstood Grey Knights, its not my faction, but isn't the clutch play going to be doing both?
Break out the smites, switch over with your last caster, then have 10 stormbolters get the damage output of 2 riptides for a turn (plus psilencers and cannons etc), then switch back at the start of your psyhic phase and drop the smites again.
Its perhaps a bit clunky, but doesn't seem that unrealistic to do. The weakness of smiting is the range (can be buffed etc, but still.)
The melee tide would seem to be the one where you are left going "this doesn't feel that great?"
It's unreliable in the IGOUGO system. It's better just to stick to either more Smites (which would really affect the Riptide too) or Cover to really force the Tau to spend even more Markerlights.
What the feth does IGOUGO have to do with anything? Between your bizarre attempts to crowbar IGOUGO into every thread and Martel's "I can't kil hordes" comments I'm starting to wonder if the pair of you are just bots regurgitating the same phrases over and over again.
The reason you don't Smite the Riptide has already been pointed out: Smite doesn't work that way, especially when Tau's thing is spamming Drones as screens. I think you're completely missing the point, either wilfully or because of some blinkered approach to the game. Nobody's claiming the double damage Smites aren't great for GK, they absolutely are. What people are disputing is your assertion that there's no reason to use the Psi weapon buffing tide and your absolutist approach to looking at the rules. There are definitely situations where you want to get the extra Psi weapon damage and GK now have the flexibility to do both in one turn anyway, but apparently that doesn't work because of the IGOUGO system for...reasons.
To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
I struggled over the logic in this writing for a while, and realised that's because it's not there. None was included while writing it. Nothing you say makes any sense.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/23 15:34:09
2020/01/23 15:35:49
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Tyel wrote: I might have misunderstood Grey Knights, its not my faction, but isn't the clutch play going to be doing both?
Break out the smites, switch over with your last caster, then have 10 stormbolters get the damage output of 2 riptides for a turn (plus psilencers and cannons etc), then switch back at the start of your psyhic phase and drop the smites again.
Its perhaps a bit clunky, but doesn't seem that unrealistic to do.
The weakness of smiting is the range (can be buffed etc, but still.)
The melee tide would seem to be the one where you are left going "this doesn't feel that great?"
It's unreliable in the IGOUGO system. It's better just to stick to either more Smites (which would really affect the Riptide too) or Cover to really force the Tau to spend even more Markerlights.
What the feth does IGOUGO have to do with anything? Between your bizarre attempts to crowbar IGOUGO into every thread and Martel's "I can't kil hordes" comments I'm starting to wonder if the pair of you are just bots regurgitating the same phrases over and over again.
The reason you don't Smite the Riptide has already been pointed out: Smite doesn't work that way, especially when Tau's thing is spamming Drones as screens. I think you're completely missing the point, either wilfully or because of some blinkered approach to the game. Nobody's claiming the double damage Smites aren't great for GK, they absolutely are. What people are disputing is your assertion that there's no reason to use the Psi weapon buffing tide and your absolutist approach to looking at the rules. There are definitely situations where you want to get the extra Psi weapon damage and GK now have the flexibility to do both in one turn anyway, but apparently that doesn't work because of the IGOUGO system for...reasons.
To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
I struggled over the logic in this writing for a while, and realised that's because it's not there. None was included while writing it. Nothing you say makes any sense.
Either argue the point or admit your wrong. I'm not incorrect you have limited characters for casting the power nillywilly like you all are suggesting.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/01/23 15:39:47
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: They're not lacking for Psykers but they're lacking for Characters, which is a MAJOR difference.
Not terribly interested in delving into this argument except to say I disagree. So continue your rant sir.
That's a very convoluted way to say "I forgot the Tide power isn't automatic and i can't just stick it everywhere to ensure success" but okay. You do you, boo.
Considering it has a 1 in 12 chance to fail if you don't bother to have some spare CP then, yes, it might be unreliable once every couple games.
2020/01/23 15:48:22
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Either argue the point or admit your wrong. I'm not incorrect you have limited characters for casting the power nillywilly like you all are suggesting.
Because you wouldn't be casting it willy-nilly. Your entire argument so far has been how rare the situations are that it gets used. And even if you did it every single turn, a 90% chance is on failure on that every 10 times you do it, equates to one failure every 2 games. And regardless, if you simply did the Smites first, you would be no worse off than if you failed any other spell. This is the equivalent of saying never risk a 4" charge, it's just nutso.
On top of that, you don't even know the rules at play here. You can't use a 'backup character' to save the spell, you can only attempt to manifest a power once per turn. So again, nothing you sense makes any sense whatsoever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/23 15:49:56
2020/01/23 15:50:51
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: They're not lacking for Psykers but they're lacking for Characters, which is a MAJOR difference.
Not terribly interested in delving into this argument except to say I disagree. So continue your rant sir.
That's a very convoluted way to say "I forgot the Tide power isn't automatic and i can't just stick it everywhere to ensure success" but okay. You do you, boo.
Not really. I can fully understand his frustration, TBH. GK are not lacking in characters and I expect most GK lists to be built around a dual Battalion. They're also fairly likely to include either an Ancient or an Apothecary, perhaps both. The power casts on a 4+, 3+ under ideal circumstances. Your counterpoint is invalid because it doesn't reflect the reality of how GK lists are likely to be constructed.
2020/01/23 16:16:06
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: That's a very convoluted way to say "I forgot the Tide power isn't automatic and i can't just stick it everywhere to ensure success" but okay. You do you, boo.
I didn't forget anything about it. I'm just not interested in some binary argument, especially with you, that involves counting, which is clearly something you're not big on doing. So rant on son.
"In relating the circumstances which have led to my confinement in this refuge for the demented, I am aware that my present position will create a natural doubt of the authenticity of my narrative."
2020/01/23 16:37:59
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Normally Gk are going to want to change tide at the end of the psychic phase. So I think a libby with +1 to cast relic is going to lead off with the +1 to cast aura and then cast another support power...Your last character will do change tide - if you didn't need to use Command reroll you are probably safe going for a 4 on 2 dice but can always go for the 3d6 stratagem to ensure you can get into shooty tide. We are looking at really low odds of failure her on most spells. Smites are going off on 3's in this setup.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/23 16:39:37
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/01/23 16:43:10
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: They're not lacking for Psykers but they're lacking for Characters, which is a MAJOR difference.
Not terribly interested in delving into this argument except to say I disagree. So continue your rant sir.
That's a very convoluted way to say "I forgot the Tide power isn't automatic and i can't just stick it everywhere to ensure success" but okay. You do you, boo.
Oh god, what if I try to switch tides and I get stuck with automatic cover and -1 to hit on a bunch of my stuff.
What a terrible outcome.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2020/01/24 11:25:12
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: They're not lacking for Psykers but they're lacking for Characters, which is a MAJOR difference.
Not terribly interested in delving into this argument except to say I disagree. So continue your rant sir.
That's a very convoluted way to say "I forgot the Tide power isn't automatic and i can't just stick it everywhere to ensure success" but okay. You do you, boo.
Oh god, what if I try to switch tides and I get stuck with automatic cover and -1 to hit on a bunch of my stuff.
What a terrible outcome.
You mean you try to switch and you're stuck with your Infantry Psycannons and Psilencers are slightly better, and suddenly things die at range.
You're the one saying to switch between the two.
Either argue the point or admit your wrong. I'm not incorrect you have limited characters for casting the power nillywilly like you all are suggesting.
Because you wouldn't be casting it willy-nilly. Your entire argument so far has been how rare the situations are that it gets used. And even if you did it every single turn, a 90% chance is on failure on that every 10 times you do it, equates to one failure every 2 games. And regardless, if you simply did the Smites first, you would be no worse off than if you failed any other spell. This is the equivalent of saying never risk a 4" charge, it's just nutso.
On top of that, you don't even know the rules at play here. You can't use a 'backup character' to save the spell, you can only attempt to manifest a power once per turn. So again, nothing you sense makes any sense whatsoever.
The "backup character" is if one character dies. I should've clarified that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/24 11:26:18
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/01/24 12:00:21
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Either argue the point or admit your wrong. I'm not incorrect you have limited characters for casting the power nillywilly like you all are suggesting.
Because you wouldn't be casting it willy-nilly. Your entire argument so far has been how rare the situations are that it gets used. And even if you did it every single turn, a 90% chance is on failure on that every 10 times you do it, equates to one failure every 2 games. And regardless, if you simply did the Smites first, you would be no worse off than if you failed any other spell. This is the equivalent of saying never risk a 4" charge, it's just nutso.
On top of that, you don't even know the rules at play here. You can't use a 'backup character' to save the spell, you can only attempt to manifest a power once per turn. So again, nothing you sense makes any sense whatsoever.
The "backup character" is if one character dies. I should've clarified that.
No, you quite unmistakeably said that the back-up character is for when you fail a power, and that's why you need him. Here:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
There's no two ways to interpret that. Just admit that you didn't even have a thorough understanding of the base rule, you are 100% not playing at a level where you should be getting involved in this debate about what it takes to properly push your game to the highest level.
2020/01/24 12:27:47
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Either argue the point or admit your wrong. I'm not incorrect you have limited characters for casting the power nillywilly like you all are suggesting.
Because you wouldn't be casting it willy-nilly. Your entire argument so far has been how rare the situations are that it gets used. And even if you did it every single turn, a 90% chance is on failure on that every 10 times you do it, equates to one failure every 2 games. And regardless, if you simply did the Smites first, you would be no worse off than if you failed any other spell. This is the equivalent of saying never risk a 4" charge, it's just nutso.
On top of that, you don't even know the rules at play here. You can't use a 'backup character' to save the spell, you can only attempt to manifest a power once per turn. So again, nothing you sense makes any sense whatsoever.
The "backup character" is if one character dies. I should've clarified that.
No, you quite unmistakeably said that the back-up character is for when you fail a power, and that's why you need him. Here:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
There's no two ways to interpret that. Just admit that you didn't even have a thorough understanding of the base rule, you are 100% not playing at a level where you should be getting involved in this debate about what it takes to properly push your game to the highest level.
I had two separate thoughts going on. My point still stands that the particular Tide is pointless.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/01/24 13:15:01
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Your point doesn't still stand, because all your supporting logic has been completely dismantled. I hate to call it logic in the first place, because as I initially said, it made no sense whatsoever, and you've now acknowledged that yourself.
All that's left standing is the empty statement "that Tide is useless", which has been thoroughly disproved.
This is like a textbook example of the low level mentality.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/24 14:05:51
2020/01/24 14:01:08
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Either argue the point or admit your wrong. I'm not incorrect you have limited characters for casting the power nillywilly like you all are suggesting.
Because you wouldn't be casting it willy-nilly. Your entire argument so far has been how rare the situations are that it gets used. And even if you did it every single turn, a 90% chance is on failure on that every 10 times you do it, equates to one failure every 2 games. And regardless, if you simply did the Smites first, you would be no worse off than if you failed any other spell. This is the equivalent of saying never risk a 4" charge, it's just nutso.
On top of that, you don't even know the rules at play here. You can't use a 'backup character' to save the spell, you can only attempt to manifest a power once per turn. So again, nothing you sense makes any sense whatsoever.
The "backup character" is if one character dies. I should've clarified that.
No, you quite unmistakeably said that the back-up character is for when you fail a power, and that's why you need him. Here:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: To switch it you have to select it as a Psyker power and it goes off on a 90% chance. If you keep switching off like suggested, you're going to eventually fail. Ergo, you'd need backup from another character taking the same Tide changing power. That's a waste of a power slot.
There's no two ways to interpret that. Just admit that you didn't even have a thorough understanding of the base rule, you are 100% not playing at a level where you should be getting involved in this debate about what it takes to properly push your game to the highest level.
I had two separate thoughts going on. My point still stands that the particular Tide is pointless.
But it's been demonstrated that it's not pointless in more than one significant way. It's a Tide that buffs shooting from your equivalent of heavy/special weapons. Nobody's saying that's as good as the extra MW or the cover Tide but it is unequivocally not pointless. This is the problem with arguing absolutes: they're rarely useful and more often than not wrong.
2020/01/24 15:02:13
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
I had two separate thoughts going on. My point still stands that the particular Tide is pointless.
The only argument raised is there's:
-a ~8% chance without CP or ~1% with CP that you fail to swap from Mortals to Guns at the end of your Psychic phase, leaving you in the same state as if you didn't try it.
-a ~8% chance without CP or ~1% with CP that you fail to swap from Guns to Mortals at the start of your Psychic phase, nearly halving (you don't have to swap back out, so not quite halving) your mortals for the round.
The first case means you're only really getting ~99% of the benefit the mathhammer shown above says you'd be getting. The second case says you're losing the bonus mortals ~1% of the time.
A 99% chance of greatly increased priority firepower in exchange for a 1% chance of fewer Mortals on screens seems like a non-pointless tradeoff to me.
And that's before discussing the usefulness of wounds on targets you pick over wounds on mortals. 15 Mortals on Gaunts or Guardsmen is nice, but we're talk of trading those for wounds on your shooting targets. Which are on the hammer units, not the anvils.
2020/01/24 15:56:46
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
The problem is that he hasn't even remotely considered the implication of any of that when he said what he did. It's just 'tide x gud, tide y bad', and that was the end of it. He did an amazing job of demonstrating exactly what we were talking about for people who see things as a complete black and white numbers game, and why that describes literally no top competitor of 40k.
2020/01/27 16:06:44
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Invulnerable IH leviathan dreads may ruin your casual experience but at the national level they are not a problem.
I am an idiot. I honestly couldn't see hiding an entire army behind a invulnerable dread but it worked so well and consistently that it is a huge issue. The chaplain dreads and the wound passing and the double feel no pains all made the issue worse but the single unkillable IH levi dread absolutely is a problem at the national level...
2020/01/27 17:14:20
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Nitro Zeus wrote: before this tournament the stats would have said otherwise though.
Just another reason why blindly following stats are dumb. There is a very real human element even at the tippest top of comp play.
If you go look at the Ironhands reveal thread here on dakka. You'd see that this very strategy was theorized and everyone (including me) said it would be broken then. (They even nerfed the Ironstone to on and addition -1 damage but it barely makes a difference.) Plus being a character and the stratagem for intercessors to take hits. They even buffed it by giving chappy dreads Litanies to give the bodyguard unit FNP. A bunch of really smart people said "lets waits and see" now look - 3 months later it wins LVO. LOL. Dakka gets this wrong a lot - just because it doesn't see competitive play doesn't mean it's bad. Everyone knew this Levi combo was broken. Literally. Everyone.
It also takes about 0 skill to play outside of picking secondaries and counting houseruled points in your head. Which really aren't 40k skills at all. They are ITC skills.
Where do I place indestructible levi with 10 man intercessor body guard? Oh I suppose by this building (where intercessors can hide) with the widest area of arch.
Where do I place untargetable chaplains? Oh...behind the levi dread I guess - It does;t really matter cause they can't shoot me anyways.
Where do I place eliminators...Can use as screens or if not necessary just hide them in a building somewhere (even outside my deployment zone).
What about the rest of these marines? Oh I'll hide them too as best can.
This list pretty much runs itself. If you are indestructible it's pretty hard to lose.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/27 17:40:21
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/01/27 17:40:09
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Nitro Zeus wrote: before this tournament the stats would have said otherwise though.
Just another reason why blindly following stats are dumb. There is a very real human element even at the tippest top of comp play.
This is why posts that sceam about tournament data and mathshammer frustrate me so much. There are so many other variables to consider beyond the bare bones of numbers.
2020/01/27 17:43:10
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Nitro Zeus wrote: before this tournament the stats would have said otherwise though.
Just another reason why blindly following stats are dumb. There is a very real human element even at the tippest top of comp play.
This is why posts that sceam about tournament data and mathshammer frustrate me so much. There are so many other variables to consider beyond the bare bones of numbers.
Like what? Ironhands players are winning 70% of their games and only a few are using leviathans...so IH leviathans are balanced?
Heck - There are other OP marines too like IF and RG turn 1 charge-assault cents. It's pretty easy to see when you read the rules that they are over the top.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
2020/01/27 17:49:31
Subject: Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.
Nitro Zeus wrote: before this tournament the stats would have said otherwise though.
Just another reason why blindly following stats are dumb. There is a very real human element even at the tippest top of comp play.
If you go look at the Ironhands reveal thread here on dakka. You'd see that this very strategy was theorized and everyone (including me) said it would be broken then.
Yes and you can see the very same people decide it's not very good after the tournament 'stats' said other things were best. And maybe they still are, and something else will come out and top it. This is the folly with following stats blindly. It only shows us what has done well, not what CAN do well in the future.
