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 Chillreaper wrote:
Guijia got Martial Arts 2, Superjump and that gizmo-thingy!

BOING! BOING! BOING!

I would expect nothing less from the Chun Li of TAGs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Both. All TAGs look now have +1 damage and Tactical Awareness (+1 order) built-in as expected, and then they got further customized from there on an individual basis. Most just got a little cheaper, but some got pretty hefty reworks like the Geckos, which were exceedingly mediocre before. Added +1 armor for 6ARM, 6-2 MOV like heavy infantry, and they get +2 Damage on weapons instead of the standard +1. They also had their weapons loadouts upgraded, all while getting very slightly cheaper pointswise, but more SWC than they were before.

Thanks. Are they just as vulnerable to hacking even when piloted? I don't play and that part just bothered me as an outsider looking in (for years at this point).

 warboss wrote:

Thanks. Are they just as vulnerable to hacking even when piloted? I don't play and that part just bothered me as an outsider looking in (for years at this point).

Having a pilot does not help TAGs against hacking, but they cannot be forcibly ejected anymore. Also, if the pilot dismount, the TAG is safe from possession.

Links on main website need to be updated still, Army7 is here, and works for both N4 and Code1.
https://infinitytheuniverse.com/army/infinity

TAGs are still vulnerable to hacking, but I don't know how that will shake out in N4 yet. Hacking got greatly simplified and HI got all around much cheaper and generally increased to MOV 6-2, so I think you'll see a lot of hackers just to counter all the HI and TAGs, but that's how it should be. Nothing in Infinity is supposed to reign supreme, everything has some kind of readily exploitable weakness or counter, as it should be. There's also counter-countermeasures you can take, some are across the board buffs from EVO hackers making hacking more difficult, some are unit/army specific. For instance those Geckos TAGs I mentioned have a built-in Fireteam Duo so you can run 2 of them as a team, but in the same sectorial the Mobile Brigada have Wildcard to join ANY team, so you could Duo a Gecko and the Mobile Brigada with -6 hacking buff and that -6 buff applies to the entire team.

mrondeau wrote:
Having a pilot does not help TAGs against hacking, but they cannot be forcibly ejected anymore. Also, if the pilot dismount, the TAG is safe from possession.

Thanks. Are those both new changes? I'd think that having the pilot mounted would make it safe from something called possession (local control hardwired to override remote) but admittedly I don't know what that actually does and am just going off of the general meaning of the word.

 Kalamadea wrote:
Links on main website need to be updated still, Army7 is here, and works for both N4 and Code1.
https://infinitytheuniverse.com/army/infinity

That worked - thank you!

How do I get the units to go horizontal vs. vertical?

 warboss wrote:

mrondeau wrote:
Having a pilot does not help TAGs against hacking, but they cannot be forcibly ejected anymore. Also, if the pilot dismount, the TAG is safe from possession.

Thanks. Are those both new changes? I'd think that having the pilot mounted would make it safe from something called possession (local control hardwired to override remote) but admittedly I don't know what that actually does and am just going off of the general meaning of the word.

There was a program to forcibly eject the pilot of piloted TAGs, to great hilarity. Possession is what it says: it's my TAG now (they are way to get it back, of course); if the Pilot is not onboard, they presumably turned if off first (or that's to deal with the fact that TAG don't get to defend against hacking if the pilot dismounted, and Possession would be way to easy.)

In general, TAGs and Heavy Infantry don't want to get close to Hackers, since they will have a bad time.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Links on main website need to be updated still, Army7 is here, and works for both N4 and Code1.
https://infinitytheuniverse.com/army/infinity

That worked - thank you!

How do I get the units to go horizontal vs. vertical?

Option menu in the lower right corner. It also lets you order how units are listed.

Think of piloted TAGs (and Heavy Infantry) like Tony Stark controlling the Iron Man armor in the MCU movies. Some of the actions are purely physical input and it amplifies the movement, but he needs Jarvis to process many of his verbal commands and run targetting and intel and ECM etc. And when enemies hack through Jarvis' defenses it shuts down the Iron Man armor even though Tony is still inside, sometimes just glitching it and sometimes shutting Tony down completely. Sometimes Jarvis can reset on it's own, sometimes Tony needs to restart the armor, sometimes he's helpless inside until somebody else comes up and helps him out.

All Infinity models are interconnected by an encrypted data net to coordinate attacks and for communications, and at very short range Hackers in Infinity can break into those encrypted data nets and run pre-set programs to infect and interrupt the computers of Heavy Infantry and TAGs. Depending on the device and program used in-game that may just give the TAG a momentary pause to reset a glitch, sometimes it can fully lock them down until they do a full restart, and for some programs it can take temporary control of the TAG just like occasionally happens to Iron Man. And just like Iron Man, TAGs/HI/Remotes have ways to reset the armor back into full use, and other hackers or engineers can counter the effects of hacking.

mrondeau wrote:

 warboss wrote:

mrondeau wrote:
Having a pilot does not help TAGs against hacking, but they cannot be forcibly ejected anymore. Also, if the pilot dismount, the TAG is safe from possession.

Thanks. Are those both new changes? I'd think that having the pilot mounted would make it safe from something called possession (local control hardwired to override remote) but admittedly I don't know what that actually does and am just going off of the general meaning of the word.

There was a program to forcibly eject the pilot of piloted TAGs, to great hilarity. Possession is what it says: it's my TAG now (they are way to get it back, of course); if the Pilot is not onboard, they presumably turned if off first (or that's to deal with the fact that TAG don't get to defend against hacking if the pilot dismounted, and Possession would be way to easy.)

In general, TAGs and Heavy Infantry don't want to get close to Hackers, since they will have a bad time.

Yeah... I think that style of mechanic is just a bad idea. That mini that you're really proud of and spent time/money on? It's mine for now. I'm fully ok with piecemeal gimping though with hacking or even just not allowing it to be activated for a turn but not outright control especially when there is someone inside. You'd think they'd just be able to lose an activation/action to "reboot" or something.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Think of piloted TAGs (and Heavy Infantry) like Tony Stark controlling the Iron Man armor in the MCU movies. Some of the actions are purely physical input and it amplifies the movement, but he needs Jarvis to process many of his verbal commands and run targetting and intel and ECM etc. And when enemies hack through Jarvis' defenses it shuts down the Iron Man armor even though Tony is still inside, sometimes just glitching it and sometimes shutting Tony down completely. Sometimes Jarvis can reset on it's own, sometimes Tony needs to restart the armor, sometimes he's helpless inside until somebody else comes up and helps him out.

All Infinity models are interconnected by an encrypted data net to coordinate attacks and for communications, and at very short range Hackers in Infinity can break into those encrypted data nets and run pre-set programs to infect and interrupt the computers of Heavy Infantry and TAGs. Depending on the device and program used in-game that may just give the TAG a momentary pause to reset a glitch, sometimes it can fully lock them down until they do a full restart, and for some programs it can take temporary control of the TAG just like occasionally happens to Iron Man. And just like Iron Man, TAGs/HI/Remotes have ways to reset the armor back into full use, and other hackers or engineers can counter the effects of hacking.

I didn't see your post until after I responded above but appreciate the explanation. I don't have a problem with the things you mentioned and even mentioned some of them myself but none of those sound outright like "possession" i.e. taking control of another player's unit.

 warboss wrote:
Yeah... I think that style of mechanic is just a bad idea. That mini that you're really proud of and spent time/money on? It's mine for now. I'm fully ok with piecemeal gimping though with hacking or even just not allowing it to be activated for a turn but not outright control especially when there is someone inside. You'd think they'd just be able to lose an activation/action to "reboot" or something.

They generally can, see my Iron Man description above. Most of the time a simple Reset action or reaction shrugs off the hacking program, I'm not sure about the new edition but in N3 it was difficult to Possess TAGs in the first place, and then they just auto-regained control at the start of their next turn

 Kalamadea wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Yeah... I think that style of mechanic is just a bad idea. That mini that you're really proud of and spent time/money on? It's mine for now. I'm fully ok with piecemeal gimping though with hacking or even just not allowing it to be activated for a turn but not outright control especially when there is someone inside. You'd think they'd just be able to lose an activation/action to "reboot" or something.

They generally can, see my Iron Man description above. Most of the time a simple Reset action or reaction shrugs off the hacking program, I'm not sure about the new edition but in N3 it was difficult to Possess TAGs in the first place, and then they just auto-regained control at the start of their next turn

It looks a bit easier than before, but you still have a Reset during the hack.
You can Hack back to get your TAG back (you do have Hackers, right ?), and you can use a CP to take it back automatically.
That's why you don't move your TAGs within 8" of a Hacker in the first place.

Plus, I have loss more TAGs to shooting than Hacking. And I have killed more TAG through stabbing them with Asura, or punching them to death with Achille.

Oh totally, I played quite a bit of N3 and only ever saw possession a handful of times. It was almost always better to try and shoot the TAG or immobilize it than to possess it, and usually if it WAS possessed on their turn then all they could afford to do was spend an order or two running it into a bad spot facing a bad direction.

Only had 2 games where it was a major thing, one where my opponent surprise revealed a TO hacker and ARO possessed my Guijia on the last order of my turn (so I couldn't reset out of it) and had it for all of his own turm. Killed a few of my own models with it, then walked it to where half his army could ARO it on my turn. It was a tournament game and we had a good laugh about it, I think I still ended up winning that one by playing the objectives. The other was when me and a friend were first learning N3 where I snagged his Iguana first order of turn 2 and flame broiled 6 of his own models, but that was mostly because we were very new, he didn't have any hackers of his own, and some REALLY bad dice rolls on his part.

TAG possession was hilarious in N2. I never saw it in N3. But I only played a tikbalang a few times, and that was against an Ariadna player.

No hot take on N4, since I don't do that sort of thing. Have that most adult of abilities, impulse control, I do. However, after a quick read through, I like what I see. N4 is an improvement of N3, in theory. Until I can get a few games, whenever that may well be, I can't be definitive.

Who is going to get a few games in anytime soon?

I wonder how often GizmoKit on TAGs is going to end up being used.

Seems like it's at least an 'engineer of last resort', but could be situationally useful for TAGs running in duos.

I'm just a little worried that N4 swung too far in favor of HI and TAGs, with all the buffs and discounts, but I'll need to wait and see how it actually plays (which won't be a while, effing COVID). I'm not THAT concerned, since I mostly like to play HI and TAGs myself even when they were overcosted, but stil, there's a LOT of wildcards and cheap 6-2 HI out there all of a sudden

 solkan wrote:
I wonder how often GizmoKit on TAGs is going to end up being used.

Seems like it's at least an 'engineer of last resort', but could be situationally useful for TAGs running in duos.

In what is probably the most confusing rule of N4 I've found so far. Gizmokit(Value) is a SKILL that determines the target number used when another model uses Gizmokit the EQUIPMENT on the model that has the skill. Given how much better so many other rules are, this one completely blows my mind, but if you want to see the difference in Army just pick Gizmokit from the Skill and Equipment dropdowns separately and note the difference in what models you filter to.

 Kalamadea wrote:
I'm just a little worried that N4 swung too far in favor of HI and TAGs, with all the buffs and discounts, but I'll need to wait and see how it actually plays (which won't be a while, effing COVID). I'm not THAT concerned, since I mostly like to play HI and TAGs myself even when they were overcosted, but stil, there's a LOT of wildcards and cheap 6-2 HI out there all of a sudden

2 Maruts lists seem vaguely viable. 3 Asuras should be OK too. 4, not really. I tried. So, at least there's that. Plus, the limit to 15 models should helps 10 models lists quite a bit.

 Alpharius wrote:


How do I get the units to go horizontal vs. vertical?

Hopefully in the next few days, it has not been implemented yet.

 PsychoticStorm wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:


How do I get the units to go horizontal vs. vertical?

Hopefully in the next few days, it has not been implemented yet.

Well, at least that explains why I couldn’t figure it out!

Thanks for letting me know - much appreciated!

Azrail is gone, and steel phalanx

All sectorials that are out of rotation will be implemented in November.

Uhlan isn't there, but Tikbalang is but Dragoes isnt? It'd make sense going sectorial by sectorial, but both tik and drago are literally the same sectorial planet.

 firmlog wrote:
Azrail is gone

Dammit, I really like those models

 Soul Samurai wrote:

 firmlog wrote:
Azrail is gone

Dammit, I really like those models

Same here

I never got round to playing (or even painting and assembling) my Haqq stuff, but the HMG Azra'il was going to be cool.

If I ever get into them, do I proxy them as the other big HI they have? Maybe see if it will work as a proxy for the new mini-TAG? Or consign it to the Bye-Bye Box?

 Chillreaper wrote:
If I ever get into them, do I proxy them as the other big HI they have? Maybe see if it will work as a proxy for the new mini-TAG? Or consign it to the Bye-Bye Box?

The Azzy would make a decent Al Fasid


The Al Fasid has been flipped horizontally to make the comparison more striking.

Cronch wrote:
Uhlan isn't there, but Tikbalang is but Dragoes isnt? It'd make sense going sectorial by sectorial, but both tik and drago are literally the same sectorial planet.

The Tikbalang is also in Military Orders, which is why that’s still in.

 ImAGeek wrote:

Cronch wrote:
Uhlan isn't there, but Tikbalang is but Dragoes isnt? It'd make sense going sectorial by sectorial, but both tik and drago are literally the same sectorial planet.

The Tikbalang is also in Military Orders, which is why that’s still in.

It also isn't on sale anymore, since it literally came as a burden to the Uhlan...but y'know, semantics.

Yeah, I'd use mine as HMG Fasid (even though I already have one...). I just... kind of hate the name Al-Fasid.

 Soul Samurai wrote:
Yeah, I'd use mine as HMG Fasid (even though I already have one...). I just... kind of hate the name Al-Fasid.

I'm in exactly the same boat, do I really need two Al-Fasids? I think that I need to get my Azra'il built and compare it with the size of the Geckos that I've got; if they're close, it might get to be a Shakush.

Speaking of Geckos... I'm tempted to dig out my old Nomads. DAM 17 Mk.12? DAM 15, B4 MMR? Nice.

 Chillreaper wrote:
I'm in exactly the same boat, do I really need two Al-Fasids?

In my case the question is "do I really need five...?"


Yeah, that third Fasid may have been a mistake in retrospect...