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 Overread wrote:
As the entire design process remains the same I'm sure if this proves a failure they can shift back toward metals if they need.

It's why you test run and try new technologies before you approve them ready for regular production. Certainly you have CADs but shifting back and forth between the technologies isn't recommended, you have design but also production process to keep in mind, besides, I think we're going to see more 'bulky' sculpts in plastic before they start tinkering with leaner ones. It buys them time to see how the market responds, post calculations and to iron out the problems on the mentioned leaner sculpts. Really interested to see how it'll work out for them.

Their PVC material isn't great, I have the PVC Aristeia minis and they're soft plastic with soft details, the facial details are barely visible.

HIPs or resin would have been better.

Are metal versions of the plastics they're releasing still available?

I have Crimson Stone on pre-order and part of the reason I was happy to pay the premium for it is the fact that CB has great metal production quality.

Infinity really can't get away with anything but the best in plastic. A huge part of their range is super fine details in metal. If they can't recreate that its really going to hurt them hard - as hard as PP if not harder as at least PP's models are a bit more chunky.

Aristea minis are made from PVC in China.

Their PVC material isn't great, I have the PVC Aristeia minis and they're soft plastic with soft details, the facial details are barely visible.

HIPs or resin would have been better.

Are metal versions of the plastics they're releasing still available?

I have Crimson Stone on pre-order and part of the reason I was happy to pay the premium for it is the fact that CB has great metal production quality.

Koni

Holy-vostoks!
Then, according to what you've said "Corvus Belli’s first miniature made of injected thermoplastic", would it be different from the Aristeia! plastics?

Yes, is not the same plastics. Aristeia! miniatures are PVC plastic produced in China, and this Vostok and the upcoming list of miniatures published will be Thermoplastic made here, in our HQ.

I'll give it a fair chance, just lowering expectations massively, I have seen a lot of other companies switch to a new mix of PVC claiming detail on par with resin/metal/HIPs and largely been left disappointed every time.

Common issues are:

- Warping (hot water bending technique doesn't fix, just bends back after painting or a few months).
- Lack of detail.
- Shrinkage, resulting in off-scale or pieces that don't fit together.
- Difficult assembly / poor primer adhesion.
- The most horrible mould line removal process possible, where it will string and gouge the surface while using a file, but also be too rubbery to easily cut with a modelling knife.
- Overly soft, bendy miniatures that just don't have the right feel to them.

It's definitely not a material I associate with premium price points, at any rate.

given how awful assembly of remotes was with metal, polymers won't make it any worse

Those molds don't look like the molds I'd expect to see for injection molded polystyrene like mass market model kits use. So I am curious about this "thermoplastic" they're using. How hard is it? How brittle? How does it take to filing and sanding? What adhesives work with it? If it's like early warmachine plastic....

I've heard from a second or even third hand source that it's SioCast? Not sure how to verify that, though.

Rihgu wrote:
I've heard from a second or even third hand source that it's SioCast? Not sure how to verify that, though.

That seems to be the case. CB hasn't come out and said that directly, but over on the CB forum they did say it was a polyamide and users have connected that to siocast. It's a flexible plastic and requires CA glue, not plastic cement.

The moulds look the same as Siocast…. Sad that I’m more interested in Siocast more than anything CB will make with it.

It seems like an actual Expert has just posted this on the official forums:

I'm curious to try it out. As much as I like metals, they have their limitations and unless HIPs suddenly becomes affordable, there's a need for alternatives.

This is a rather exciting development. I'm looking forward for getting some of these new remotes.

It's good to hear from an actual materials expert.

I'm looking forward to seeing the results for myself.

This has been my dream of dreams for a while now, especially with how the Thermoplastic "resins" have become smaller scale casting options. I hate metal modes, I despise them, and everything I've been seeing about the thermoplastic reisns injection molding over the last year or so has been truly amazing stuff. I hope CB replaces their entire catalogue with thermoplastic injection molded plastics, they've been amazing to work with so far

If people are curious, the difference between PVC and thermoplastic resins like CB is switching to is the difference between Reaper Bones and the newest Reaper Bones USA figures. Below is the Lysette figure that came out last year, side by side the same figure in PVC (boardgame) plastic and in the thermoplastic. People expecting soft, blobby, indistinct figures will be pretty surprised by the material.

Youtube video unboxing and comparing the same figures

I really hope it's much better than that cause it's quite soft in detail compared to current CB metal minis.

 Modock wrote:
I really hope it's much better than that cause it's quite soft in detail compared to current CB metal minis.

There's already a picture from CB on the previous page showing white metal next to the new plastic. I can't really see a difference.

what's shown is fairly irrelevant other than as an example of perfection

what is more important is what goes on store shelves, and that can be a lot different

(remember finecast looked ok when first shown, but GW couldn't maintain it when it was scaled to retail production levels)

I trust CB enough that I expect it to be reasonable, but how it really compares after many cast's we'll see (there's a strong temptation to sell almost ok casts when they're not able to be melted and reused like metal )

Yes, what matters is the minis on the table. I'll pass my judgement when I see them live.

Feth, this is actually depressing now that I've thought about it. I own literally thousands of dollars of unbuilt Infinity models that I kind of never want to see again until they come out in plastic. I haven't touched my Defiance stuff because it's metal, haven't even opened my new Military Orders box, Kaldstrom is still sitting unbuilt in my closet, I suddenly don't want any of it.

And CB has said that they're only doing larger models in plastic to start, most S2 models will continue to release in metal while they guage reaction to the material, so it could be years or never for the range to go fully plastic.

What do you find is wrong with metal?

 Kalamadea wrote:
Feth, this is actually depressing now that I've thought about it. I own literally thousands of dollars of unbuilt Infinity models that I kind of never want to see again until they come out in plastic.

Interesting reaction. On the CB forum there are folks who say they will bail on infinity if everything goes to plastic. Not sure how CB can satisfy everyone going forward.

 Arschbombe wrote:
Not sure how CB can satisfy everyone going forward.

That's the neat part, you don't.

 Arschbombe wrote:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Feth, this is actually depressing now that I've thought about it. I own literally thousands of dollars of unbuilt Infinity models that I kind of never want to see again until they come out in plastic.

Interesting reaction. On the CB forum there are folks who say they will bail on infinity if everything goes to plastic. Not sure how CB can satisfy everyone going forward.

They can't. There's always people that will react badly to change.




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 Overread wrote:
What do you find is wrong with metal?

The main issue I have is that paint chips off it more easily and you have to be a lot more careful with metal bumping metal than other materials. It's also inherently top heavy and falls over more often. Not a deal breaker at all, but it's a lot easier to handle plastics generally.

I'm kind of surprised there are so many people willing to pay the price of high quality metals, for cheap bendy plastic that can't hold the same detail. It's not like the TAGs will cost 10$, or will they?

Prices aren't going down...Bostria confirmed it. Tags will cost the same in plastic.

 Modock wrote:
Prices aren't going down...Bostria confirmed it. Tags will cost the same in plastic.

Well, I've seen this gongshow more than once. Let the shilling begin.

Noooooooooooo.

Bad news. Sad to see this to be honest.

Goose LeChance wrote:

 Modock wrote:
Prices aren't going down...Bostria confirmed it. Tags will cost the same in plastic.

Well, I've seen this gongshow more than once. Let the shilling begin.

I'll bite...

Where? Finecast? Where resin was spun cast...

This has more in common with HIPS injection molding but with resin detail. But hey, in a few years CB would be dead anyways since white metal miniature production will be uneconomical.

Reserving judgement, but, large minis in a good plastic are fine if the details hold.

If this works, we may see those weapons sprues we've been wanting since, well, forever. That would be a welcomed addition.

Also, if it works, CB is certain to try it on things like the bikes and S5 minis next.