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I am a returning player that stopped playing 5 years ago and ended with play Dark Eldar. I played a lot of Black Templars and Necrons back in the day as well. I am torn between Iron Hands and Raven Guard and I would like to know more about their playstyle and the tactics used for them. Which do you prefer? What models should I start with on them? Any other suggestions, in general, would be appreciated.

I tend to advise people looking into 40k in any context start with Kill-Team, it's a good way to get into it without having to devote too much time/energy/money to the project and gives a good introduction to some of the concepts of 8e (the new to-wound table, hit mods, AP, command points and stratagems, etc.) in small scale.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I tend to advise people looking into 40k in any context start with Kill-Team, it's a good way to get into it without having to devote too much time/energy/money to the project and gives a good introduction to some of the concepts of 8e (the new to-wound table, hit mods, AP, command points and stratagems, etc.) in small scale.

I feel ya but them people in my area do not want to play that so I thought I would get back into 40k at 1k points. I have seen some of the changes. I played 40k for 10 years before I quit was just looking for some suggestions on Raven Guard and Iron Hands.

Why exactly are you looking into those two armies? Are you looking for narrative games or are you aiming to play in a league/tournaments regularly?

Nemesis_Vanguard wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
I tend to advise people looking into 40k in any context start with Kill-Team, it's a good way to get into it without having to devote too much time/energy/money to the project and gives a good introduction to some of the concepts of 8e (the new to-wound table, hit mods, AP, command points and stratagems, etc.) in small scale.

I feel ya but them people in my area do not want to play that so I thought I would get back into 40k at 1k points. I have seen some of the changes. I played 40k for 10 years before I quit was just looking for some suggestions on Raven Guard and Iron Hands.

As another returning player...at 1k poiints, what table size are you looking at playing on...and how many objectives (if any)

Nemesis_Vanguard wrote:
I am a returning player that stopped playing 5 years ago and ended with play Dark Eldar. I played a lot of Black Templars and Necrons back in the day as well. I am torn between Iron Hands and Raven Guard and I would like to know more about their playstyle and the tactics used for them. Which do you prefer? What models should I start with on them? Any other suggestions, in general, would be appreciated.

Iron Hands are straight-forward, they are tough and they deal a lot of damage, primarilly through the use of heavy weapons like heavy bolters and lascannons.

Raven Guard are more of a finesse army with some more involved tactical manoeuvres and rely on cover and staying at range to survive the enemy, offensively they rely on a mixture of heavy weapons, assault weapons and melee weapons.

The basics of most lists are troops and most of them are solid, Tactical Squads not so much. As far as HQs go I'd say stay away from the heavily armoured options and go with cheap or mobility-focussed options. Starting with a Lieutenant and a Chaplain would be solid with either chapter. A Captain is a must if you play Raven Guard at higher pts values but an okay choice for Iron Hands as well. If you go for Iron Hands you'll want mostly heavy weapons on your troops, if you go Raven Guard you can go either way. Thunderfire Cannons you find in almost every SM list and are amazing for both of the Chapters you mentioned. If you go Raven Guard you have access to some mobility tricks that make Assault Centurions amazing. You can't really go wrong with Invictor Warsuits either, although a single shooty Dreadnought is strong if you go with Iron Hands.

I don't think you should pick SM, they're horrendously OP, especially the two chapters you mentioned. Both are primarily shooty but Iron Hands have almost nothing else going for them and are more limited in their options so I'd go with Raven Guard if that's going to be your only faction and you're not planning on restarting one of your old armies at some point. If you want a weaker version of the armies you can include Tactical Squads, Terminators, Land Raiders, Rhinos, Razorbacks and Assault Squads.

VAYASEN wrote:
As another returning player...at 1k poiints, what table size are you looking at playing on...and how many objectives (if any)

6 feet by 4 feet is ideal, 4 feet by 4 feet isn't terrible. The number of objectives is based on the mission you play, playing a kill-point mission or a custom mission with 1 or 4 objectives is fine, I don't think Maelstrom is a good idea for a returning player's first game although the game mode can be fun. You'll find some missions in the main rulebook and more in Chapter Approved 2019.

Right now, the smart money for things to buy for space marines is any of the new Primaris stuff. Speculation is that older style marine kits are going to be phased out, and we haven't seen any indication of units that are really intended to be 1 for 1 exact replacements, so there's no guarantee that older marine kits will have a place.

For example: The Primaris equivalent of the tactical squad does not have heavy or special weapons, instead they choose between three different styles of bolter, one being a basic rapid fire gun, one being a sniper-esque gun, and one being a 3-shot assault gun.

The various and sundry loadouts available to marine scouts have been spread across various units in the Primaris range. The unit "Reivers" can be seen as scouts, but also "Eliminators" the new sniper unit.

For Raven Guard: You can field a sneaky marine army that screams "Raven Guard" to me with Primaris much better than you ever could with basic marines. At least in my opinion. You've got sneaky infiltration troops in the Incursors/Infiltrators, you've got sniper troops in Intercessors with Stalker Rifles, you've got badass snipers in Eliminators, a sneaky dreadnought in the Invictus warsuit and a speedy transport in the...the new one. Primaris name conventions are really stupid and hard to remember, sorry.

But lookswise, having seen a full primaris raven guard list, they look fluffy as all hell. They look like the sneaky commandos Raven Guard really should be.

 Jidmah wrote:
Why exactly are you looking into those two armies? Are you looking for narrative games or are you aiming to play in a league/tournaments regularly?

Looking for more tournament type play as the end goal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Right now, the smart money for things to buy for space marines is any of the new Primaris stuff. Speculation is that older style marine kits are going to be phased out, and we haven't seen any indication of units that are really intended to be 1 for 1 exact replacements, so there's no guarantee that older marine kits will have a place.

For example: The Primaris equivalent of the tactical squad does not have heavy or special weapons, instead they choose between three different styles of bolter, one being a basic rapid fire gun, one being a sniper-esque gun, and one being a 3-shot assault gun.

The various and sundry loadouts available to marine scouts have been spread across various units in the Primaris range. The unit "Reivers" can be seen as scouts, but also "Eliminators" the new sniper unit.

For Raven Guard: You can field a sneaky marine army that screams "Raven Guard" to me with Primaris much better than you ever could with basic marines. At least in my opinion. You've got sneaky infiltration troops in the Incursors/Infiltrators, you've got sniper troops in Intercessors with Stalker Rifles, you've got badass snipers in Eliminators, a sneaky dreadnought in the Invictus warsuit and a speedy transport in the...the new one. Primaris name conventions are really stupid and hard to remember, sorry.

But lookswise, having seen a full primaris raven guard list, they look fluffy as all hell. They look like the sneaky commandos Raven Guard really should be.

Thanks for the info! I was looking at more of a Primaris Raven Guard as I thought it would match them due to their dwindling numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:

Nemesis_Vanguard wrote:
I am a returning player that stopped playing 5 years ago and ended with play Dark Eldar. I played a lot of Black Templars and Necrons back in the day as well. I am torn between Iron Hands and Raven Guard and I would like to know more about their playstyle and the tactics used for them. Which do you prefer? What models should I start with on them? Any other suggestions, in general, would be appreciated.

Iron Hands are straight-forward, they are tough and they deal a lot of damage, primarilly through the use of heavy weapons like heavy bolters and lascannons.

Raven Guard are more of a finesse army with some more involved tactical manoeuvres and rely on cover and staying at range to survive the enemy, offensively they rely on a mixture of heavy weapons, assault weapons and melee weapons.

The basics of most lists are troops and most of them are solid, Tactical Squads not so much. As far as HQs go I'd say stay away from the heavily armoured options and go with cheap or mobility-focussed options. Starting with a Lieutenant and a Chaplain would be solid with either chapter. A Captain is a must if you play Raven Guard at higher pts values but an okay choice for Iron Hands as well. If you go for Iron Hands you'll want mostly heavy weapons on your troops, if you go Raven Guard you can go either way. Thunderfire Cannons you find in almost every SM list and are amazing for both of the Chapters you mentioned. If you go Raven Guard you have access to some mobility tricks that make Assault Centurions amazing. You can't really go wrong with Invictor Warsuits either, although a single shooty Dreadnought is strong if you go with Iron Hands.

I don't think you should pick SM, they're horrendously OP, especially the two chapters you mentioned. Both are primarily shooty but Iron Hands have almost nothing else going for them and are more limited in their options so I'd go with Raven Guard if that's going to be your only faction and you're not planning on restarting one of your old armies at some point. If you want a weaker version of the armies you can include Tactical Squads, Terminators, Land Raiders, Rhinos, Razorbacks and Assault Squads.

VAYASEN wrote:
As another returning player...at 1k poiints, what table size are you looking at playing on...and how many objectives (if any)

6 feet by 4 feet is ideal, 4 feet by 4 feet isn't terrible. The number of objectives is based on the mission you play, playing a kill-point mission or a custom mission with 1 or 4 objectives is fine, I don't think Maelstrom is a good idea for a returning player's first game although the game mode can be fun. You'll find some missions in the main rulebook and more in Chapter Approved 2019.

While I agree that it looks like they are op right now I also played for the most part xenos only for 10 years and now I am returning due to the new space marine stuff. Necrons are garbage right now so they are off the list. I still have my venom spam DE but they are not looking appealing right now to me. BT are a lost forgotten army :(. So I wanted to try one of these because I never got to vs them in my ten years of playing because they were in such a bad spot when compared to others.