New Forge World Indexes

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Yoyoyo**

They need to tune stratagems by power level. There's a huge difference in value for a stratagem like Cacaphony for 3x Oblits versus 5x CSM with a plasma gun and combi.

It goes the same way for Duty Eternal. 1CP is probably alright for a ~100pt Dread in a 500pts game. At 2000pts when you're sitting on 13-18CP, it's more than fair to ask for 2CP on a Leviathan.

**Eldarsif**

Argive wrote:
Sadly I think we will see a lot of stuff disappear from the books into the annals of the time that was.. No model no rules and no legends..

I am curious though how much of an overhaul there will be. Perhaps my wraith seers will get a smite and not become ludicrously overcosted... Wonder if I should even bother building the shadow specters lol.

Agree. I imagine the Chaplain Dread will disappear so a lot of current lists are going to go the way of the Dodo unless FW starts making them again.

**Not Online!!!**

Yoyoyo wrote:
They need to tune stratagems by power level. There's a huge difference in value for a stratagem like Cacaphony for 3x Oblits versus 5x CSM with a plasma gun and combi.

It goes the same way for Duty Eternal. 1CP is probably alright for a ~100pt Dread in a 500pts game. At 2000pts when you're sitting on 13-18CP, it's more than fair to ask for 2CP on a Leviathan.

or just get rid of the gotcha combo system entierly....

but yeah adapted cost for them would be very nice.

**Yoyoyo**

I do really like the idea that CP can influence your tactical objectives in the GW missions, it's an opportunity cost to to investing 5CP to pull off some stupid combo.

Things like Prepared Positions, scout moves, unit customization -- they're all pretty good. It's more the "y0u acTibaTED mY tRap cArd" nonsense that needs to go.

**Not Online!!!**

Yoyoyo wrote:
I do really like the idea that CP can influence your tactical objectives in the GW missions, it's an opportunity cost to to investing 5CP to pull off some stupid combo.

Things like Prepared Positions, scout moves, unit customization -- they're all pretty good. It's more the "y0u acTibaTED mY tRap cArd" nonsense that needs to go.

unit customization?
No
, feth that, AA missiles? sure as hell shouldn't be only available because your havoc champion asked your CSM lord to use one under punishment of ripping his soul a new behind.
That stuff has to go and instead be a propper unit upgrade with point costs.
Not to mention that unit customization sitiing behind CP, does mean that factions with cheap allies get a lot more of these units then other factions.

So hard pass on that.

**Yoyoyo**

I'm thinking of something like Red Butchers.

Maybe look at it as your warlord requistioned them from high command?

CP generation is a whole other issue and I think you need to look at that separately, maybe tie it to PL rather than the FOC chart.

**Not Online!!!**

Yoyoyo wrote:
I'm thinking of something like Red Butchers.

Maybe look at it as your warlord requistioned them from high command?

CP generation is a whole other issue and I think you need to look at that separately, maybe tie it to PL rather than the FOC chart.

same difference, also why use points as primary balancing tool then?

Why not make a propper unit entry?
Why not make a sub entry for an upgrade?

no, same differncce, same bs.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
I also hope the Ork options are fixed. At least brought up to codex level.

I also hope the most offending and often spammed FW units are hit hard with the nerf bat. Some units are bonkers OP.

E.g. leviatahns?

You realise that they only get eregious on the loyalist side due to some very well known gw created supplement offenders?

The correct thing would be to not treat symptomes but the core issue.

Gw could just handle it the way they handled the fire frenzy strategem for csm. Duty eternal can't be played on relic units. Of course that would hurt the poster boys wouldn't it?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
They do sell them. There's people who aren't gamers. Those who aren't just spamming best units and instead have "one of that, one of this, another that". Variety rather than spam. If they didn't make FW units they would have less units to sell and those would thus buy less. If you have 10 units to sell you sell 10 kits.

If you have 20 you sell 20. 30? 30. So if you have more units to sell you get more money from those. But at lower profit rate per unit than with plastic. Thus for gamers who buy as much of best as possible you want to sell plastic as they will buy best and ignore the bad units.

That's how you get GW upping cost of unit already not even appearing in tournaments by 300%.

So what you mean is, they're making amazing kits for the majority (none tournament players) which they don't want to sell because the minority (tournament players) can be persuaded easily to buy 1-2 kits on repeat. Besides as much as resin costs more to make individual models, i always thought making a plastic kit cost more in pre-production?

The whole idea that gw makes some models but doesn't want to sell them is about as illogical as you can get.

Certain Strats not affecting units "because" is super inconsistent though. The LOGICAL way to go about it is make it 1CP for Dreads below 11 wounds, and 2CP for Dreads 11+ wounds.

**Daedalus81**

Not Online!!! wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
I also hope the Ork options are fixed. At least brought up to codex level.

I also hope the most offending and often spammed FW units are hit hard with the nerf bat. Some units are bonkers OP.

E.g. leviatahns?

You realise that they only get eregious on the loyalist side due to some very well known gw created supplement offenders?

The correct thing would be to not treat symptomes but the core issue.

Is duty eternal bad, because it's on a 3+ T7 dread or a 2+ T8 dread?

They could fix the cp cost for Levi's, but there's more than one way to skin a grot.

**Not Online!!!**

Sure, i agree with that, but let me ask you a question, do you think GW will not just use the tried and tested NERFBAT TO THE GROIN instead via points?

**Yoyoyo**

Regarding Points Vs. CP: I think one benefit is less committment and less book-keeping.

Want to fire a flakk missile? 1CP. If it's a unit upgrade, you have to pay an extra 15pts for your one-use missile, need to record it in the roster, and it's wasted if there's no valid target.

I don't have terribly strong feelings on this, the differences are mostly minor on the table. What's the difference if the Serpent Shield is a stratagem or a datasheet ability? Very little, but it's arguably future-proofing the datasheet if you move the special abilities to stratagems.

**Dudeface**

Not Online!!! wrote:
Sure, i agree with that, but let me ask you a question, do you think GW will not just use the tried and tested NERFBAT TO THE GROIN instead via points?

Hard to say, given there are new books coming out the leviathan might not be what it is now. Since they're having an official main studio focus now some codex stuff may factor in FW units more often, or maybe the profile might not be t8, maybe the invuln will go down a little, maybe the weapons will be re-worked. Who knows at this stage, but a bat to the nads is most likely admittedly.

**Blndmage**

I hope it's not all Imperial and Chaos.
I hope Xenos factions get love.

**Dudeface**

Blndmage wrote:
I hope it's not all Imperial and Chaos.
I hope Xenos factions get love.

They're replacing the FW index books, why wouldn't they?

**Imateria**

Very much expecting this to be a reworking of the rules for everything currently listed on their website. I am very much hoping the Xenos units get the love they need, it is very frustrating having a 330pt Lynx that has less firepower than a Fire Prism.

**The_Real_Chris**

I expect everything not made currently will swiftly be Legends. So bye bye a horde of units.

**Kanluwen**

They just posted up an article.

Also, a mock-up page spread:

**chaos0xomega**

My wishlist:

-Badab War/Forgeworld Space Marine chapters get the full Space Marine Codex treatment (Chapter Special Rules/Strategems/Relics, etc.)
-DKoK brought in line with the Codex in terms of Doctrines/Orders/Strategems/Relics
-Elysians the same (but I'll settle for simply not being squatted now that the minis range is discontinued)
-Malcador tanks adjusted to make them worth taking
-Avenger cannon stats to be made consistent (ASF has it at Heavy 8, Knights have it at Heavy 12, give the ASF the extra 4 shots please and thank you).
-Eldar Corsairs to return as an army list
-Knarloc Riders/Great Knarlocs to have matched play points

**Orodhen**

Spoiler:

MMMMMMMMMMM. Tasty, but I really wish they gave some more info. Alas, waiting it is.

I hope they fix Malcador and Macharius tanks as well as the static artillery carriages. My Krieg boys need some help (regimental tactics for our vehicles would be nice).

**Amishprn86**

Cool we go from Index 1.0 to Index 2.0

If Corsairs are in it still, and my Tantalus isnt freaking 400pts i might pick 1 up.

**The_Real_Chris**

chaos0xomega wrote:

-Elysians the same (but I'll settle for simply not being squatted now that the minis range is discontinued)

If they aren't Legends I will breath in my resin dust.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Cool we go from Index 1.0 to Index 2.0

If Corsairs are in it still, and my Tantalus isnt freaking 400pts i might pick 1 up.

I legit forgot the Tantalus was even a thing. Could easily drop 50-100 points and nobody would bat an eye.

**chimeara**

Maybe they'll finally give me rules for Skulltakers Legion! Or, just fix Zhufor to work with WE too.

Also, make the Arch Daemons more affordable points wise. An'Grrath is solid, not 888 points solid.

**Slayer-Fan123**

chimeara wrote:
Maybe they'll finally give me rules for Skulltakers Legion! Or, just fix Zhufor to work with WE too.

Also, make the Arch Daemons more affordable points wise. An'Grrath is solid, not 888 points solid.

He should work. He has the World Eaters keyword.

**Stux**

The_Real_Chris wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:

-Elysians the same (but I'll settle for simply not being squatted now that the minis range is discontinued)

If they aren't Legends I will breath in my resin dust.

Yeah, I would be extremely surprised if out of production models are in the new book. And if not, that means Legends.

That will also go for the Chaplain Dreadnought.

**Sgt. Cortez**

Just bring my Plague Hulk on the level of a defiler and the Blight Drone on the level of Bloat Drone. That's all I need really.

If they ever make rules for the 30K mechanicum to be used in 40K that could cost me a lot of money...

**chimeara**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
chimeara wrote:
Maybe they'll finally give me rules for Skulltakers Legion! Or, just fix Zhufor to work with WE too.

Also, make the Arch Daemons more affordable points wise. An'Grrath is solid, not 888 points solid.

He should work. He has the World Eaters keyword.

That he does. However, his reroll aura is only for 'Skulltakers'.

**Togusa**

tneva82 wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
So does this mean no more complaining about fw models not having rules written by the main gw rules team? ...

I might have to retire my "It's great in 30k, but pretty crap in 40k" catchprase!

If it's done by GW main studio expect bad rules. They have vested interest in gamers not buying those models instead of more profitable plastic ones.

The money all goes to the same place. This is not true at all....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
My wishlist:

-Badab War/Forgeworld Space Marine chapters get the full Space Marine Codex treatment (Chapter Special Rules/Strategems/Relics, etc.)
-DKoK brought in line with the Codex in terms of Doctrines/Orders/Strategems/Relics
-Elysians the same (but I'll settle for simply not being squatted now that the minis range is discontinued)
-Malcador tanks adjusted to make them worth taking
-Avenger cannon stats to be made consistent (ASF has it at Heavy 8, Knights have it at Heavy 12, give the ASF the extra 4 shots please and thank you).
-Eldar Corsairs to return as an army list
-Knarloc Riders/Great Knarlocs to have matched play points

I agree on the DkoK, but I'd like to add that they need their army list expanded too.

**Slayer-Fan123**

chimeara wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
chimeara wrote:
Maybe they'll finally give me rules for Skulltakers Legion! Or, just fix Zhufor to work with WE too.

Also, make the Arch Daemons more affordable points wise. An'Grrath is solid, not 888 points solid.

He should work. He has the World Eaters keyword.

That he does. However, his reroll aura is only for 'Skulltakers'.

OH that's what you're referencing. Yeah not much you can do about that unfortunately. It has to be house ruled significantly. Most people would probably just tell you to run his aura as "World Eaters" but GW needs to fix it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
My wishlist:

-Badab War/Forgeworld Space Marine chapters get the full Space Marine Codex treatment (Chapter Special Rules/Strategems/Relics, etc.)
-DKoK brought in line with the Codex in terms of Doctrines/Orders/Strategems/Relics
-Elysians the same (but I'll settle for simply not being squatted now that the minis range is discontinued)
-Malcador tanks adjusted to make them worth taking
-Avenger cannon stats to be made consistent (ASF has it at Heavy 8, Knights have it at Heavy 12, give the ASF the extra 4 shots please and thank you).
-Eldar Corsairs to return as an army list
-Knarloc Riders/Great Knarlocs to have matched play points

FWIW, at least the Badab Characters have interesting rules at minimum, and they just need some point updates.

**Gadzilla666**

Spoiler:

Kind of hard to read but that looks exactly the same. Just a shot of the current index. Honestly the current rules are fine. The just need a drop of about 300-350 points. Preferably closer to 350.