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the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

Ragnar has one attack for each novel where he's the protagonist.

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

If you're gonna whine scotsman, just whine. Why feel the need to project onto SM players?

JSG wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

If you're gonna whine scotsman, just whine. Why feel the need to project onto SM players?

Because they can't handle the concept that space wolves are not space marines by publication (i.e. codex)

Although he does have a point. Jain Zar looks laughable in comparison, when that should absolutely not be the case.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

JSG wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

If you're gonna whine scotsman, just whine. Why feel the need to project onto SM players?

Because they can't handle the concept that space wolves are not space marines by publication (i.e. codex)

Their codex literally says Adeptus Astartes in the title. He also said they were a sub faction of space marines, which they are

JSG wrote:

If you're gonna whine scotsman, just whine. Why feel the need to project onto SM players?

To be fair, those are the two things this thread is for.

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

So much this. And I play Dark Eldar and Space Wolves. I was so happy with the modicum of oomph they deigned to give Drazhar despite it's far less than it was hyped about by GW. And when I see the new Ragnar statline I simply have no wish to play him when I compare him to Drazhar, even though I like wolves at least as much as my DE, and it also makes the thought of fielding Draz super depressing. If both kicked ass (or whiffed) proportionally to their point costs, it'd be a completely different thing

JSG wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

If you're gonna whine scotsman, just whine. Why feel the need to project onto SM players?

I'm just amused that anybody thought a SM faction was not going to get a model in one of these books. The only times that's ever going to happen is when they have books without marines in them.

Of course ragnar was going to get a model, and of course his new rules are going to be absolutely bonkers so as to make other factions' characters look like bad jokes. After all, if the #4 most powerful named character in the space wolf chapter can't goe toe to toe with Ghazghkull on the tabletop (and also gak all over every other duellist character including Logan Grimnar his own chapter master) what's the point?

Skulltaker 4A +1 on the charge @ S6 Ap-3 D3
Masque of Slaanesh 5A @S4 Ap-2 D2
Lucius the Eternal 6A @S4 AP-3 D2
Deathleaper 4A @S6 AP-1 D2
Jain Zar 4A @S6 Ap-3 Dd3
Karandras 4A @S8 AP-3 Dd3
Lelith Hesperax 5A @S3 Ap-4 D1 2A @S3 AP-
Visarch 5A @S5 AP-3 Dd3
Anrakyr the Traveler 3A @S8 AP-4 D2
Logan Grimnar 5A @ S8 AP-3 D3
Commander Dante 6A @S6 AP-3 Dd3
Gabriel Seth 4A @S8 AP-2 D3
Cato Sicarius 4A @S4 AP-3 Dd3
Korsarro Khan 5A @S6 AP-3 Dd3

Literally the only character I can come up with in the game who makes more melee attacks than new Ragnar on the charge is Kharn the Betrayer who can fight twice for 12 S5 AP-4 Dd3 attacks.

People are seriously cool with Ragnar, the Space Wolves "special captain guy, not even the chapter master" fething embarrassing melee-focused chapter masters in melee damage output?

They blatantly amped his damage up to 11 because they want him to be able to have a close fight with Ghazghull, who is probably getting rules putting him more on par with Swarmlord/Abbadon/Gullliman scale guys, given how big he is now.

 Emicrania wrote:
My guess for Ghaz is

Ws2+ S7 T7 A7 2+ 4++ Klaw D3 No minus 6" area +1A OR +1 to hit

Ghaz will give command points imo

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

There's only one space marine faction left, and if Deathwatch gets a new character, I'll eat Roboute Guilliman's sweaty socks whole.

the_scotsman wrote:


Literally the only character I can come up with in the game who makes more melee attacks than new Ragnar on the charge is Kharn the Betrayer who can fight twice for 12 S5 AP-4 Dd3 attacks.

So Ragnar is the best character now? (Sorry I don't play 40K. Last time I did, there were more stats involved, like S/T/WS/BS, a lot of other things to consider). Is it just about attacks nowadays?

JWBS wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Literally the only character I can come up with in the game who makes more melee attacks than new Ragnar on the charge is Kharn the Betrayer who can fight twice for 12 S5 AP-4 Dd3 attacks.

So Ragnar is the best character now? (Sorry I don't play 40K. Last time I did, there were more stats involved, like S/T/WS/BS, a lot of other things to consider). Is it just about attacks nowadays?

Well no, obviously he probably has a worse save or something than Logan Grimnar, it's just a bit odd to me that he's nearly twice as killy as basically every other character in his weight class and solidly better than his own chapter master when he's the equivalent of a captain.

Kind of like if they primaris-ized cato sicarius and he suddenly both had a powerfist and threw 3 more attacks than marneus calgar. What's Calgar even doing then?

He's 6W with a 3+/4++ and no other durability buffs from what I understand. So he's reasonably tanky but a far cry from Calgar/Abaddon (but also most likely a lot cheaper)

tondier wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

There's only one space marine faction left, and if Deathwatch gets a new character, I'll eat Roboute Guilliman's sweaty socks whole.

"Coming to the battlefield is new Deathwatch Inquitrocator Captain Xalleurus! He's got a reverse engineered Tyranid Bonesword growing out of a necron Warscythe, a servo-scanner that is an advanced reverse engineered Tau AI drone, a Combi-splinter cannon/shokk attack gun and a shuriken rifle codpiece! He's also an HQ Character on a drukhari hoverboard! Bellisarius Cawl personally made all his wargear, and the whole imperium is totally cool with it!"

Yep, he's a bit of a glass-cannon. He's absolutely devastating if he gets to swing, but sustained sniper fire or a charge from a more mobile character like a Biker Shield Captain, Magnus or Smash Captain would ensure he never gets the chance.

PiñaColada wrote:
He's 6W with a 3+/4++ and no other durability buffs from what I understand. So he's reasonably tanky but a far cry from Calgar/Abaddon (but also most likely a lot cheaper)

So, a hair less durable than Logan Grimnar, who is W7 2+/4++ with no other durability buffs.

Assuming we're only going for Marine-sized Characters (so no Skarbrand) Helbrecht can still get 9 attacks on the charge natively (not 10 as I said above; thought he had A6 but it's 5).

EDIT: The Emperor's Champion has 7 attacks on the charge against Characters. Khârn's got 13 due to Legion Tactics and charging.

Don't people realize that everything ragnar has in his primaris form is the same he has already now? But +1A and +1W.

He has the +1d3 attacks if he heroically intervenes. And thats completely useless. The leaked stats gives him those attacks on the charge and if its charged, and even then I doubt hes gonna be used because meele beasticks space marine characters don't work unless they are VERY good and have delivery metods like kaldor draigo or smash captain.

Delivery might be an issue and that's a big reason why I don't think he'll be a meta buster. But he doesn't have +1d3 attacks with shock assault now, it's just +flat 3.

 Asmodai wrote:
Yep, he's a bit of a glass-cannon. He's absolutely devastating if he gets to swing, but sustained sniper fire or a charge from a more mobile character like a Biker Shield Captain, Magnus or Smash Captain would ensure he never gets the chance.

Right, like if you charged him with the brand new Shrike, who would deal an average of 5 wounds to the new Ragnar on the charge and then get killed in return with 6.875 unsaved wounds.

the new korsarro khan also loses to him when Khan gets the charge, as does the new Jain Zar. Drazar beats him if Ragnar does not CP interrupt him after the first round of combat. All of them die in one round to new Ragnar's attacks.

As to the older chapter masters, Dante and Seth manage to kill him if they get the charge, Logan does not. Again, Ragnar kills them all in one round with his attacks, because most chapter masters have 2+/4++ defensive statlines.

Vulkan Hestan and Lysander do not kill him on the charge and manage to survive his initial round of attacks, but most likely will die round 2 because Ragnar probably gets to go first and has more than enough oomph to finish them off (If Ragnar has any kind of fancy pistol he'll most likely kill Vulkan with that, because he deals 4.375/5 of his wounds in the first round on average rolling)

you have to get to Marneus Calgar to find a character who can confidently survive and kill him on the return swing (or kill him on the charge and survive his swing back if he pulls Only in Death).

Space Marine players, seriously, you're all cool with this? Every one of your big pumped up dudes losing to the second-fiddle named captain guy of the space wolves?

the_scotsman wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
Yep, he's a bit of a glass-cannon. He's absolutely devastating if he gets to swing, but sustained sniper fire or a charge from a more mobile character like a Biker Shield Captain, Magnus or Smash Captain would ensure he never gets the chance.

Right, like if you charged him with the brand new Shrike, who would deal an average of 5 wounds to the new Ragnar on the charge and then get killed in return with 6.875 unsaved wounds.

the new korsarro khan also loses to him when Khan gets the charge, as does the new Jain Zar. Drazar beats him if Ragnar does not CP interrupt him after the first round of combat. All of them die in one round to new Ragnar's attacks.

As to the older chapter masters, Dante and Seth manage to kill him if they get the charge, Logan does not. Again, Ragnar kills them all in one round with his attacks, because most chapter masters have 2+/4++ defensive statlines.

Vulkan Hestan and Lysander do not kill him on the charge and manage to survive his initial round of attacks, but most likely will die round 2 because Ragnar probably gets to go first and has more than enough oomph to finish them off (If Ragnar has any kind of fancy pistol he'll most likely kill Vulkan with that, because he deals 4.375/5 of his wounds in the first round on average rolling)

you have to get to Marneus Calgar to find a character who can confidently survive and kill him on the return swing (or kill him on the charge and survive his swing back if he pulls Only in Death).

Space Marine players, seriously, you're all cool with this? Every one of your big pumped up dudes losing to the second-fiddle named captain guy of the space wolves?

He can allready do all of that right now. He has been able to do all of that for nearly 3 years. If he rolls a 3 in his berzerker rage he has the same attacks as his primaris new statline. 6+3.

And, I mean. I don't like space wolves. I actually kind of despise them because I have a friend thats an insane space wolf fanboy and doesn't stop talking about how leman russ is the best and space wolves are the best. But this reaction is just insane for someone as rational as you, scotsman.

Well 6+3 is obviously 9, not 10. And he can only get that if he rolls a 5+ on that d3 and even then it only works if he heroically intervened which is much more restrictive than shock assault. And those attacks were at S5 and not S6 (probably not a huge difference but even so)

 Billagio wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

JSG wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

If you're gonna whine scotsman, just whine. Why feel the need to project onto SM players?

Because they can't handle the concept that space wolves are not space marines by publication (i.e. codex)

Their codex literally says Adeptus Astartes in the title. He also said they were a sub faction of space marines, which they are

sure but they are a seperate codex. thems the facts. and it's not like orks aren't getting a plastic Ghaz. Ragnar is literally one of the oldest models in the range. why begurdge it getting an update?

PiñaColada wrote:
Well 6+3 is obviously 9, not 10. And he can only get that if he rolls a 5+ on that d3 and even then it only works if he heroically intervened which is much more restrictive than shock assault. And those attacks were at S5 and not S6 (probably not a huge difference but even so)

His new hability is that shock assaults adds 3 instead of 1 attack. That makes his 6 base attacks +3=9. And by being primaris his transport options are much more limited.

As I said, I cannot see Ragnar Blacprimaris being used in any kind of competitive form. And , as I said before, is not like he has become some kind of ubber beast. He has always had those stats and habilities.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
Ghaz beats ragnar into the ground. As he bends down to take the marine's head, Ragnar werewolf's into Leman Russ.

And thus returns the primarch of the Space Wulfs.

Ghaz then proceeds to take Leman Russ' head instead.


Awoooooooooo.

ahh but that's ok because Lemen russ has TWO heads, and they regrow! he then rips off Ghaz's head who also regrows his head! ONE DAY THEY'LL HAVE A REMATCH! DIAL IT TO 11!

..... the sad thing is, I could see GW writing that

That's actually a really awesome ide-

Nibbler wrote:
I really really want the story to run into a scene, where ragnar whispers rough into the beasts ear: " I wulf you"

and then, the both of them mate furiously to seal the truce between one beast and the other...
Afterwards we might get a netflix movie, about jealousy and murder.

My god.

Except that insane bravado only works on heroic intervention. The new rumored rule gives it to him on the charge.

Also, it's now a guaranteed +3 instead of needing to roll a 3 on a D3, and he's getting +1S and +1W, which is why he can survive the attacks from Shrike/Khan/Vulkan/etc on the charge. They all do average damage to him that gets rounded up or down to 5W.

I suppose if he's got his puppers for wound allocation shenanigans, and he manages to finagle a heroic intervention into them somehow, and he rolls pretty well on insane bravado, he might be able to pull out some similar performances against big name space marine dudes, but it's a whole lot trickier.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Billagio wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

JSG wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Awww, all the marine players were so adorable, afraid that one subfaction might not get a new model in PA.

Don't worry, you'll get your dude capable of effortlessly blenderizing every other faction's "Fast duelist" characters.

For a laugh, pit new Ragnar against "new" """"""improved"""""" jain zar.

Sure glad we gave up that disarm ability! Now she can attack so many times, it's....oh, Ragnar just attacks 10 times for charging....oh.

Seriously, how can you decide "Hmmm, a speedy fast duelist type character should probably have an attack stat of aboooout 4." And then immediately turn around and go "A speedy fast SPACE MARINE duelist? SEVEN, baby! and give him +3 on the charge or when he gets charged! WOOOOOOOOOO!"

If you're gonna whine scotsman, just whine. Why feel the need to project onto SM players?

Because they can't handle the concept that space wolves are not space marines by publication (i.e. codex)

Their codex literally says Adeptus Astartes in the title. He also said they were a sub faction of space marines, which they are

sure but they are a seperate codex. thems the facts. and it's not like orks aren't getting a plastic Ghaz. Ragnar is literally one of the oldest models in the range. why begurdge it getting an update?

I don't. Ragnar is a perfectly fine SW model to update. I just thought it was funny that some people thought GW would ACTUALLY pass up an excuse to make a space marine model.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
So wheres all the sorry for shouting down the wants of new ragnar ? Seems he'll be there after all. Praise the sun.

Of course GW break all prior stated expectations for marine players. We knew this.

Space Wolves characters heroically intervene 6", is not that hard for them to do that.

 Galas wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Well 6+3 is obviously 9, not 10. And he can only get that if he rolls a 5+ on that d3 and even then it only works if he heroically intervened which is much more restrictive than shock assault. And those attacks were at S5 and not S6 (probably not a huge difference but even so)

His new hability is that shock assaults adds 3 instead of 1 attack. That makes his 6 base attacks +3=9. And by being primaris his transport options are much more limited.

As I said, I cannot see Ragnar Blacprimaris being used in any kind of competitive form. And , as I said before, is not like he has become some kind of ubber beast. He has always had those stats and habilities.

"W6, A7.
Sword is Str+2 AP-4 D2
Aura that gives a 6" pile-in or consolidate if not in 3" (hard to tell exactly)
Aura: Reroll non-VEHICLE charges
Stanadard Captain/Jarl buff
Berzerk Rage: Shoack Assault is +3A instead of 1
Belt of Russ 4++"

A7+3=10A.

+1A, +1S, +1W, ability going from heroic intervention to charge and becoming (effectively) guaranteed +2 instead of +D3.

He's not the same statline plus the standard primaris stuff.

He's 7 attacks base now, so while the old him could get to 9 attacks with a maxed d3 roll on a HI the new one gets 10 automatically from SA