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It feels weird that Makari has 4 wounds and Ghaz ‘only’ has 12.

While I don't think Ghaz will make Orks storm back atop the meta or even be a really competitive choice, he seems really fun to me. Assuming they fix advance & charge to work on himself then he could be used without the tellyporta and that seems more fun than being "forced" to take that option.

I also think there could be uses for a unit that cannot die in specific phases. Look any army that isn't balanced to spew wounds in psychic, shooting and melee will have to worry about the guy at least somewhat. Do I think he should be north of 250 points? No, but we'll see what the rest PA brings before I sharpen my gitfork

His new profile seems appropriate to be honest, if he's going to become the beast and get bigger he'll need more wounds. Get more wounds become monster not infantry and then here we are.

It's good he doesn't break the klan but I agree with AAE, there could be a generic ork "advance then charge" strat on the way or something we don't know about.

There's loads of stratagems that could completely change our opinion of Ghaz, such as this;

"Add 3" to a Deep Striking unit's charge roll. 1 CP"
OR
"A GHAZGHKULL THRAKA model may Deep Strike within 3" of a friendly MAKARI model and must be more than 6" from enemy units. 1 CP"
OR
"Choose a friendly GHAZGHKULL THRAKA model the first time it becomes a casualty, on a 2+ that model is not removed from play and instead gains d3 wounds."

Patience, my green ladz. Use dat Morky cunnin'

I could also see Orks being given an equivilant of transhuman phisilogy. that's the SM strat that makes wound rolls of 1-3 fail no matter what the str of the weapon.

I'm more annoyed about the whole rule oversights than his competitiveness. It feels like the idiocy of the supplement that shall not be named all over again (mandatory deepstrike for 91 model unit, master-crafting 20 assault 3 guns).
I can probably make him work in my buggy list, thought that's somehow missing the point of fielding a character that's supposed to be leading boyz.
I really don't know how I feel about him being as expensive as a naut though.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm more annoyed about the whole rule oversights than his competitiveness. It feels like the idiocy of the supplement that shall not be named all over again (mandatory deepstrike for 91 model unit, master-crafting 20 assault 3 guns).
I can probably make him work in my buggy list, thought that's somehow missing the point of fielding a character that's supposed to be leading boyz.
I really don't know how I feel about him being as expensive as a naut though.

What rules oversight? They seem pretty intentional to me.

I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

GW Logic: A Reaver Volcano Cannon can one shot an Imperial Knight but literally cannot kill Ghaz.

More and more GWs splatbooks are simply trying to cover the cracks of a fundamentally broken core.

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
GW Logic: A Reaver Volcano Cannon can one shot an Imperial Knight but literally cannot kill Ghaz.

More and more GWs splatbooks are simply trying to cover the cracks of a fundamentally broken core.

Fits with narrative plot shields.......

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

Well you would find ork players who would complain even if he had 2++ rerolled with half the points.

tneva82 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

Well you would find ork players who would complain even if he had 2++ rerolled with half the points.

As you would from any other armies. Unfair and uncalled.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
None of his stats are "-",

So what you mean is that either he doesn't have a degrading profile, or his degrading profile has a new value for every stat?

Yes.

Say that again ?

Yes.

Also, please highlight any stats with a value of "-" on his profile? I count three with "*" (all of which are replaced by a numerical value in the degradation table), but none which are "-".

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

Well you would find ork players who would complain even if he had 2++ rerolled with half the points.

As you would from any other armies. Unfair and uncalled.

So your position is that a statement you agree is accurate is unfair? Interesting.

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

Why would he suddenly not benefit from his own auras when he has done so for over two decades? I can't think of another named character that can't benefit from his own auras.
Either it's a mistake, or GW genuinely thought that him having access to the Waaagh! and +1 attack would be too good. Which doesn't really match up with what other armies are getting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

Well you would find ork players who would complain even if he had 2++ rerolled with half the points.

That is uncalled for.

 Jidmah wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume it's a mistake because otherwise it's malice. Or, in other words, GW giving orks crap rules again because NPC race.

How is it? He seems fairly decent to me and his increased size and profile is what people wanted isn't it?

Why would he suddenly not benefit from his own auras when he has done so for over two decades? I can't think of another named character that can't benefit from his own auras.
Either it's a mistake, or GW genuinely thought that him having access to the Waaagh! and +1 attack would be too good. Which doesn't really match up with what other armies are getting

How many other characters moved from being standard hq level to being a monster? What would you have his aura say exactly to include him without causing a random wtf effect of it suddenly buffing squiggoths?

Ork players wanted a "credible threat" character that would beat up marines rather than being the backfield commander and you got one.

Dudeface wrote:
What would you have his aura say exactly to include him without causing a random wtf effect of it suddenly buffing squiggoths?

"...this model and ORK INFANTRY units within 6"..."

Yeah, this seems like an oversight to me. Also, if they made squiggoths being able to advance and charge near ghaz, would that be such a bad thing (especially considering squiggoths and gargantuan ones are faster than Ghaz so the buff would quite likely only be in range T1 when charges are probably not happening anyway)?

Dudeface wrote:
How many other characters moved from being standard hq level to being a monster?

It's not ok to get it wrong, even if it's for the first time. He also didn't change much at all in the fluff.
A single test game should have shown this issue, and my criticism to GW is that the have failed to do even the bare minimum testing on orks rules, for what feels like the hundredth time.
Heck, I would volunteer to just cross read their rules releases free of charge and sign any NDA they want. I would love to get some new ork rules and just for once not immediately find some blatant overview on my first read.

What would you have his aura say exactly to include him without causing a random wtf effect of it suddenly buffing squiggoths?

No problem, just use the same wording as they used for the entire IH codex to not cause random wtf effects for leviathan dreads.
If orks are seriously the only faction for which they care about making a mediocre and a terrible forgeworld unit slightly better, it's back to malice.

Ork players wanted a "credible threat" character that would beat up marines rather than being the backfield commander and you got one.

The "credible threat character" is just barely better than the one we already had, but got ~50 points more expensive and has little to show for it, precisely because the lost access to his own buffs cancel out most of the improvements he got.

A lot of people here don't know the Ork rules well enough to really understand what this new Ghaz is. We've already seen it a few times with people (myself included, by the way) thinking that he can be affected by Painboyz, or Grot Shields.

If the lack of advance and charge is intentional, it simply forces us to Deep Strike Ghaz rather than start him on the board. Not the end of the world by any means, but it massively reduces the amount of viable options open to Ork players in a competitive sense and that is something that should be lamented for any faction.

In the same breath we haven't seen nearly enough yet to see where Ghaz stands in terms of competitive viability. Stratagems and other abilities can all massively change things. We don't even know his points cost yet.

I will say that on the face of it, he looks too expensive (if he's around the correct PL to points cost of 280ish pts) for what he offers. That is a huge investment for an Ork army and I'm struggling to see any abilities that warrant such a cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
The "credible threat character" is just barely better than the one we already had, but got ~50 points more expensive and has little to show for it, precisely because the lost access to his own buffs cancel out most of the improvements he got.

The "credible threat character" was also decapitated by the equivalent to a SM Captain.

SM captains are smashing castellans, right?

 Jidmah wrote:
SM captains are smashing castellans, right?

Apparently, although the round 2 fight against Ragnar should be incredibly 1 sided following the profiles, although fluff may differ.

Medi-squig strat should still work on Ghas though.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Medi-squig strat should still work on Ghas though.

Yup. It means Ghaz cannot be killed before Turn 4 and coupled with Command Re-rolls you could easily make it so Ghaz literally can't be killed.

Meanwhile Volcano Cannons can delete an Imperial Knight in a single hit.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Medi-squig strat should still work on Ghas though.

Yup. It means Ghaz cannot be killed before Turn 4 and coupled with Command Re-rolls you could easily make it so Ghaz literally can't be killed.

Meanwhile Volcano Cannons can delete an Imperial Knight in a single hit.

Spoiler:

You're really hung up on that. Let it go.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Medi-squig strat should still work on Ghas though.

Yup. It means Ghaz cannot be killed before Turn 4 and coupled with Command Re-rolls you could easily make it so Ghaz literally can't be killed.

Meanwhile Volcano Cannons can delete an Imperial Knight in a single hit.

Spoiler:

You realise that its max 4 wounds per phase and not per turn right?

He is not Morathi!

 Mr Morden wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Medi-squig strat should still work on Ghas though.

Yup. It means Ghaz cannot be killed before Turn 4 and coupled with Command Re-rolls you could easily make it so Ghaz literally can't be killed.

Meanwhile Volcano Cannons can delete an Imperial Knight in a single hit.

Spoiler:

You realise that its max 4 wounds per phase and not per turn right?

He is not Morathi!

He should reach at least turn 3 against most lists though.

Did ork players whine too much that Ghaz is too smol or something like that?

Now I'm afraid for the fate of the Avatar.

Ghaz literally has divine protection from all the Waaagh! energy his Boyz would latently be throwing his way. He's arguably much more protected than a mere Imperial Knight.

 Mr Morden wrote:

You realise that its max 4 wounds per phase and not per turn right?

Not every army can deal damage in the psychic, shooting and fight phase. You would need to do 4 damage in each of those phases.