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Commander Shadowsun is so stealthy that we couldn't find her points value to put in The Greater Good book! Fortunately, we've tracked it down now.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
1) Facebook is not rules. Until the errata comes out new Shadowsun is unusable in matched play because she doesn't have a points cost. (Also way to be totally condescending about your total lack of any form of Quality Control.)
2) Yes, because you have permission to take prototype systems and no rule saying you are only limited to one.
3) The Tau Codex still applies here, no FSE Ethereals.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/20 05:28:29
In this case, it is rules. They’ve chosen this route until the errata lands.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
JohnnyHell wrote: In this case, it is rules. They’ve chosen this route until the errata lands.
Except it is not rules. There is nothing that says any facebook posts are valid rules...
Wait for the FAQ, until then, his points are unknown as far as the RAW is concerned.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
JohnnyHell wrote: In this case, it is rules. They’ve chosen this route until the errata lands.
Except it is not rules. There is nothing that says any facebook posts are valid rules...
Wait for the FAQ, until then, his points are unknown as far as the RAW is concerned.
Well that's just silly.
We know the points, move on.
As per some random FB post sure. As per RAW, no we do not.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
BaconCatBug wrote: 1) Facebook is not rules. Until the errata comes out new Shadowsun is unusable in matched play because she doesn't have a points cost. (Also way to be totally condescending about your total lack of any form of Quality Control.)
2) Yes, because you have permission to take prototype systems and no rule saying you are only limited to one.
3) The Tau Codex still applies here, no FSE Ethereals.
Facebook does provide official rules as they have done before and said so.
But sure keep showing off your ignorance
Or sure let's see and laugh how you try to prove how YOUR definition of what's source is official trumps over what the company owning and doing the game says is. Bacon the decider! Bacon who is the sole authority and GW has to follow what he says!
Or we can use some common sense and understand that the company owning game decides what is official and what is not. Not random internet guy who doesn't even play the game.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/20 10:57:49
tneva82 wrote: Facebook does provide official rules as they have done before and said so.
Citation needed.
I have not seen anything that states that Facebook is official rules for Warhammer 40K.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
tneva82 wrote: Facebook does provide official rules as they have done before and said so.
Citation needed.
I have not seen anything that states that Facebook is official rules for Warhammer 40K.
Or the opposite. So when a post is clearly meant to be taken as official, can we please just accept that?
No, because Facebook is not an official rules source...
They literally state "a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio."
So they, on the page, literally say that they are not official...
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
To anyone who can read context, theres a difference between posting a points cost that was missing from a book and answering a question someone posts on social media.
If you cant make that differentiation then I'm sorry I cant help you, but the rest of us know exactly how much Shadowsun costs.
Stux wrote: To anyone who can read context, theres a difference between posting a points cost that was missing from a book and answering a question someone posts on social media.
No there is not. They are both FaQ/Errata...
If you cant make that differentiation then I'm sorry I cant help you, but the rest of us know exactly how much Shadowsun costs.
People were literally asking them how much Shadowsun costs...
What makes that different from any other rules question?
There is literally no difference since people were asking. If you cant realize that, then I'm sorry no one cant help you.
It seems likely that Shadowsun will cost that in the official rules, but until the FAQ/Errata there is no RAW on it.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Stux wrote: I know you dont get. Whatever, I'm not going to waste energy on you.
People can read this and make up their minds.
Well I am not ignoring anything, you are.
So people can read this and make up their minds on RAW, and anyone should come to the same conclusion I have about the RAW.
P.S. I get it, it seems your arguments ignore the RAW.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Stux wrote: I know you dont get. Whatever, I'm not going to waste energy on you.
People can read this and make up their minds.
Well I am not ignoring anything, you are.
So people can read this and make up their minds on RAW, and anyone should come to the same conclusion I have about the RAW.
P.S. I get it, it seems your arguments ignore the RAW.
Yes, because RAW is the wrong interpretation sometimes. Often even.
This isnt the RAW forum. RAW is just a tool.
And FAQ's change stuff all the time too, so I am not sure what your point is.
All I was saying is that Facebook is not a valid rules source (Backed up my quote of the facebook page).
And that the RAW on Shadowsun is that there is no points listed for him, and as such is unusable in matched play because she doesn't have a points cost.
People may HIWPI differently but the RAW is what it is and the RAW is clear.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
BaconCatBug wrote: 1) Facebook is not rules. Until the errata comes out new Shadowsun is unusable in matched play because she doesn't have a points cost. (Also way to be totally condescending about your total lack of any form of Quality Control.)
Actually he's still usable as he has a datasheet. If you choose to ignore the Facebook listing of his points, then he merely has no cost since there's no cost listed, and he can be included for free in a Tau army That's certainly one way to sell more Shadowsun models. Alternatively, just default to the CA 2019 cost until an errata comes out, but it would be best to plan for him to be the cost listed in Facebook.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/20 14:52:54
I appreciate the RAW and the RAI perspectives. I just wanted to caution against some of the heightened back n forth in my thread.
I was not aware of the facebook post, now I have a very good idea as to what Shadowsun's cost is. I will assume its 127 vs 110 until something else comes out with a stronger case, until then it makes sense and its a reasonable cost and its fair to the players that I will be playing against.
Looking at the paragraph for prototype weapons systems, its clear that one unit may have one prototype system. The wording is similiar to relics where one model may have one relic and strategems may be used later to give more relics, and now we can replace a relic slot with a prototype weapon slot. So apparently I can infer that I may have more than one prototype system in my army and I can't see any restrictions on duplicates, so how about 3 hammerheads with with high capacitance railguns :-)
Sazzlefrats wrote: I appreciate the RAW and the RAI perspectives. I just wanted to caution against some of the heightened back n forth in my thread.
I was not aware of the facebook post, now I have a very good idea as to what Shadowsun's cost is. I will assume its 127 vs 110 until something else comes out with a stronger case, until then it makes sense and its a reasonable cost and its fair to the players that I will be playing against.
This is not the first Psychic Awakening book to be lacking points for a unit. That was in Ritual of the Damned...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Yeah... not everyone follows GW or its various games on Facebook. It's not like they have an official outlet for FAQs and Erratas. Oh wait... they do!
A Facebook post from GW should be a pretty good indication that an official Errata or FAQ is on the way, but I don't think it's a reasonable expectation to expect the average player to have seen said Facebook post.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
Any older points values are unreliable since the new Shadowsun has a completely different suit with new weapons. The available options are either to not use the model, claiming there is no valid points cost for her, or to use the new value provided by the official FaceBook page. If the choice is between no rules and FaceBook rules then clearly the sensible choice is to trust the FaceBook values for now. Ignoring the only available information because it isn't official enough is madness.
p5freak wrote: Its utterly ridiculous that GW says their facebook page cant give official rule answers, but post point values there.
What they actuall say is...
And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.
The Social Media team can't answer rules questions. The Game Designers can and has used Facebook to provide quick fixes such as the missing points in Ritual of the Damned and The Greater Good instead of waiting two (or more) weeks for a FAQ.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
p5freak wrote: Its utterly ridiculous that GW says their facebook page cant give official rule answers, but post point values there.
What they actuall say is...
And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.
The Social Media team can't answer rules questions. The Game Designers can and has used Facebook to provide quick fixes such as the missing points in Ritual of the Damned and The Greater Good instead of waiting two (or more) weeks for a FAQ.
Facebook just isn't a great source. They have an official outlet for FAQs and Erratas. At a minimum, there should be a disclaimer on the FAQs and Erratas page letting players know that they ALSO need to trawl through countless Facebook posts looking for any additional preliminary Erratas. Facebook is a decent stream of consciousness type thing, but it's a pretty awful way to communicate things that need to persist and be easily found... especially when you may not know to look.
Check out my website. Editorials! Tutorials! Fun Times To Be Had! - kriswallminis.com
p5freak wrote: Its utterly ridiculous that GW says their facebook page cant give official rule answers, but post point values there.
What they actuall say is...
And a quick note on rules questions - we can’t give you official answers. We’re not the Games Designers, they’re locked up in the studio. We might be able to give you some general advice or point you in the right direction but better to try and work it out with your gaming buddies.
The Social Media team can't answer rules questions. The Game Designers can and has used Facebook to provide quick fixes such as the missing points in Ritual of the Damned and The Greater Good instead of waiting two (or more) weeks for a FAQ.
Then the game designers need their own Facebook page, or they have to remove the info that they can't give official ruke answers, because that's what they are doing. Points are rules.
6800 points 
75 points 
600 points
5740 points 
2650 points 
55 points 
640 points 
1840 points 
435 points
2990 points 
700 points 
2235 points 
1935 points
3460 points 
