Space Marine Codex Update and NERFS

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**Galas**

The Space Marine FAQ's have been updated. Doctrines have been nerfed

General commentary:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/5e1be5c1.pdf

Ravenguard FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/480c3779.pdf

IronHands FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/22137816.pdf

Blood of Baal FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/17e6ccc6.pdf

Ritual of the Damned FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/0852a374.pdf

Special points:
-Doctrines change , no matter you want it or not
-Dreadnought stratagem is now -1 damage, no cumulative
-IronHands intercessors can't tank wounds for vehicles
-No more infiltrating Centurions

**xttz**

Nice

**Galas**

Tournament Organiser’s Commentary

At the end of the day, 40K tournaments – no matter how large, prestigious or competitive – are about providing an
opportunity for players to spend time with friends old and new, to divine the state of their luck as revealed by their
dice and, most importantly, to have fun. As Tournament Organizer of 40K events at AdeptiCon, providing an enjoyable
experience is foremost on my mind. After good sportsmanship, nothing promotes fun more than balance within
the game, and so I am excited to tell you that AdeptiCon will fully implement the adjustments in the Space Marines
February 2020 update.
Taken as a whole, these changes undeniably and significantly level the playing field in competitive 40K, revitalise the
health of the meta and keep the idea of having fun where it belongs: front and centre.
- Jason Lippert, Tournament Organiser and Head Judge, AdeptiCon 40K Events

**xttz**

* sound of Adepticon army lists furiously being rewritten *

**Galas**

Combat Doctrines is an ability that we always intended to be purposefully rigid, in that you have to progress through
a combat doctrine sequence in a specific order, starting in the Devastator Doctrine and finally ending up in the
Assault Doctrine. We maintained a degree of flexibility by letting players choose when they would progress to the next
doctrine, imagining that every Space Marines player would wish to progress through the sequence as quick as they
could – after all, an average ‘combined arms’ army has more melee weapons in it than it has Rapid Fire weapons (every
model technically has a melee weapon) and fewer still have Heavy weapons. The idea was that as the game progressed
(and the enemy got closer) you’d get more of a bonus by switching combat doctrines.

How fluffy are GW rules writters... at this point in time after all this years , they should have realiced allready that when you give a powerfull bonus to something, people WILL spam that to maximize the benefits, and not play a "fluffy combined weapons list"

**Sunny Side Up**

Feels very timid and half-assed compared to the Ynnari adjustment.

Guess they didn't wanna impact sales too much.

But at least it's a gesture of intent, I guess.

**Quasistellar**

On the contrary I appreciate their restraint while also addressing the Doctrines. I was convinced they'd specifically annihilate Iron Hands while leaving every other chapter (too) strong.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Feels very timid and half-assed compared to the Ynnari adjustment.

Guess they didn't wanna impact sales too much.

But at least it's a gesture of intent, I guess.

How is it timid? It completely changes a core mechanic and how lists work.
A lot of lists have to be rewritten now if one wants proper optimization.

**Crimson**

These are good changes.

**Sterling191**

Looks like soup's back on the menu boys.

**SeanDavid1991**

I think what they have done is fair.

Make it so you must move through the Doctrines, that way for most armies the super doctrines can't stay on all the time.

Fixed the dreandought issue and the stealthy centurions.

Although I do here the screams of the tourni players echoing through time and space

**Galas**

SeanDavid1991 wrote:

Although I do here the screams of the tourni players echoing through time and space

Tourney players will just adapt as they always do. The cries you'll earn are from those lesser tournament players that copypaste a list from the internet and then rolfstomp their FLGS.

**Quasistellar**

I feel like we're going to see a lot of space marine soup now, and I'm personally fine with that.

The doctrines were just pure bonus with zero downside (and they still are). But at least now some chapters can't just get these bonuses the whole game.

**SeanDavid1991**

Galas wrote:
SeanDavid1991 wrote:

Although I do here the screams of the tourni players echoing through time and space

Tourney players will just adapt as they always do. The cries you'll earn are from those lesser tournament players that copypaste a list from the internet and then rolfstomp their FLGS.

True Ture.

I for one welcome the change. I actively changed doctirne becuase i just felt scummy being turn four and having a 36" range on my infantry. especially when some of that is plasma D3 and 6 intercessors pumping out 24 shots.

**MadMekRoff**

Tournament player here and Imperial Fist player.

The change was needed.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Those nerfs seem like a fair first iteration to me. Thunderfire Cannons might still need some looking at, but the most over-the-top stuff (bar the Chaplain Dreadnought) seems to have been nerfed. Now let's find out if it was enough, and what else (if anything) needs adjustment.

**Dudeface**

Eloquent change, seems fair and solved a lot of problems.

**Bossdoc**

(bar the Chaplain Dreadnought)

Since it's no longer sold by FW, it'll probably go to "legends" with the announced FW rules update... just a little more patience needed...

**Karol**

It is going to be very intersting how armies post this change shape up.

**Darsath**

I suspect we'll see an Article up on the community page at some point today. Should be an interesting read, and we'll see what impact these changes will have. If these changes aren't enough to let the meta be more diverse, they can't wait another 6 months for the next changes. Though I really do hope we get to see some sort of change.

**Sunny Side Up**

Marine Rate of Fire, stuff like the Chapter Master strat, the Invictor, etc.. are all still insane. Basic Intercessors still need to go up a couple of points. Etc..

Sure, list will change (the come back of stealthy / Master Artisans?), but I don't think it brings Marines in line to be balanced against .. dunno .. Khorne Daemons or Harlequins or Necrons, etc.., etc..

**iGuy91**

Oh
Thank
GOD

Its basically exactly what it needed to be. No more, no less.

I could do a happy dance.

**Karol**

As long as marines are still top armies it is going to be okey. I hope we ain't going back to tau and eldar flyers winning stuff left and right.

I wonder what rebalance are there going to be to chapters that have rule linked to being in devastator doctrin. You can't get back to enter them, so tactical doctrin marines seem to be winners of this change.

**Not Online!!!**

iGuy91 wrote:
Oh
Thank
GOD

Its basically exactly what it needed to be. No more, no less.

I could do a happy dance.

yes agreed but with a twinge of annoyment.

Gw failed again to propperly find a balance. Pre 2.0 marines were a lughingstock (arguably one of the better ones but still) then got overtuned massively, and now got kicked down a notch again.
It's basically an issue that could've been solved with more coordinated releases of dexes and better testing of the rules.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Karol wrote:
As long as marines are still top armies it is going to be okey. I hope we ain't going back to tau and eldar flyers winning stuff left and right.

I wonder what rebalance are there going to be to chapters that have rule linked to being in devastator doctrin. You can't get back to enter them, so tactical doctrin marines seem to be winners of this change.

No army or faction should dominate the comp meta to such an extent.
irrelevant which faction it is.

**vipoid**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
Feels very timid and half-assed compared to the Ynnari adjustment.

Guess they didn't wanna impact sales too much.

But at least it's a gesture of intent, I guess.

How is it timid? It completely changes a core mechanic and how lists work.
A lot of lists have to be rewritten now if one wants proper optimization.

He said timid compared to the Ynnari adjustment.

This is a reasonable tweaking with a scalpel. The Ynnari adjustment was a sledgehammer that completely changed how the army played and which made them outright worse than any of the alternatives.

**Formosa**

I cannot help but feel that a more competent design team would have see the ultra mega obvious result of the doctrines system, this is a good change though, now removal of adaptive tactics though, that is a bad move.

**changemod**

Seems a bit wonky in relevance to chapters getting doubled up bonuses during certain doctrines? Favours chapters who get their doubled assault benefit for the entire rest of the game as of turn 3, I mean

**Karol**

No army or faction should dominate the comp meta to such an extent.
irrelevant which faction it is.

eldar had similar numbers, same with knights, at least in my country. So I don't really see the difference. Plus marines are linked to the rules my army has, any point/rule change always hits my dudes like a boomerang. Had to suffer through five big nerfs, just because other armies were too good. So if any army is suppose to be top, and one will always be considering how GW writes their rules, then I would rather have marines be at the top.

**AlmightyWalrus**

changemod wrote:
Seems a bit wonky in relevance to chapters getting doubled up bonuses during certain doctrines? Favours chapters who get their doubled assault benefit for the entire rest of the game as of turn 3, I mean

Which is offset by said bonus not kicking in until turn 3. A bonus that's active immediately is, ceteris paribus, better than one you have to wait for.

**Argive**

CHapter master should be 3CP or just re-roll failed.

Re-roll all is still a bad mechanic for everyone.

Its a start though.