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 MrMoustaffa wrote:
So long story short, I had never heard of Ragnar till GW announced his model. Apparently he's some well known space wolf character, I thought he was a brand new Primaris character like the dark angels guy. I made an offhand comment of why didn't they pick a more well known character like Yarrick to fight Ghaz and, well, it started a pretty interesting discussion.

So I decided to make a poll to see if I've just been living under a rock or if this was common. For fairness sake, please don't vote if you play Imperial Guard or Space Wolves, it's pretty obvious which you'd be more familiar with there. When I say are you familiar, I mean which character would you feel more comfortable answering questions about at the drop of a hat with no way to look up things online, stuff like

1. Famous battle they were in

2. A signature weapon

3. A mighty deed they've done

4. A well known enemy

Or really just any interesting tidbits. This is purely a "who is more well known" poll. So even if you've heard of both, vote for the one you feel you are more familiar with off the top of your head.

I know both, since I am both a Guard player and a Space Wolves. He's the like calgar or cato sicarius hero of the Space Wolves who's treated as all around being awesome with absolutely no weaknesses that actually ever get him in trouble. He does have the dubious honor of having been one of the oldest character models still in print, at least until now, so he's an obvious candidate for the primaris refresh treatment.

If you told me that it includes Ragnar Blackmane [and I didn't already know], I'm like "oh yeah, that guy. Great, Primaris Ragnar Blackmane is exactly what I wanted, definitely more than a potential cool and uniquely space-wolves generic wolf lord model, or even a primaris wolf lord on primaris wolf wolf."

Not voting since I play guard, but I feel the poll could have been better if the question was “are you familiar with Ragnar?” since the op clearly was not (and neither was I). Having to choose between the two characters seems a bit misleading to the actual point.

Anyway, I was genuinely surprised by how storied Ragnar is according to many posters. I only knew him as possibly the oldest sculpt for sale, thanks to another thread. But I don’t read much outside of the main rule book or the codexes.

I guess that explains why the whole ordeal felt very underwhelming for me. “Fight of the millennium” but I didn’t even know one of the fighters! Lol. It might have been more interesting if Ragnar came back as a dreadnought imo. As it stands the first fight didn’t change anything.

 insaniak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You don't need a "both" option though?

If you know about them equally then surely the act of not voting is the same as expressing this opinion?

The OP wants to know who you're more familiar with. If the answer is both, perfectly equally, then don't vote.

Refraining from voting is not proffering an opinion, it's simply not participating in the poll. Limiting the poll to responses from people who are only familiar with one or the other is a bizarre choice, given that both characters are established enough that most people (or at least most who have been in the game for any length of time) will be familiar with both.

and refraining from voting skews the poll.

Added a third option for Both. Didn't think I would need that option but I guess it's fair to say you do in fact feel equal on them. Forgive the long wording but that seemed the most accurate way to sum up that feeling based on what others said

Glad I wasn't the only one. It seems like there's a clear dividing line based on when you started. It looks like if you started around 5th or later, Ragnar apparently had little lore that made it out of his codex, so few knew of him. Meanwhile apparently Ragnar got a big push in 2nd and 3rd edition. Would explain his lower numbers too. So if you're an old player he's a household name, whereas to new players unless they have a space wolf player with a varied collection he didn't have a lot to pick out from all the other marine characters non marine players are subject to on a day to day basis.

That said, it would make sense that he's less memorable to those outside his faction. Not trying to be mean, but his story really isn't very different from all the other "rising star" marine characters out there. From what I've been reading to learn about him, you could replace the wolves and chapter names with one of a dozen chapters and most would be none the wiser. Meanwhile there's not really another character out there like Yarrick, his closest comparisons I can think of being Dante and Creed, an old warrior too stubborn to die and crafty to boot. But then you add on he's a commisar who wears an Ork power klaw and shoots lasers from his eye and that's different enough most players can remember that.

I voted Ragnar. But it's biased because Space Wolves were my first during at the very beginning of third edition. Having said that I've known about Yarrick nearly as long. I honestly don't see how anyone interested in the fluff wouldn't know both.

Both pretty obviously. They were both stars of 2nd and 3rd edition that faded out of relevance over time.

Before his new model I only knew there was an old Ragnar model, but despite having more Space Wolves than Space Marine players in our group and despite having no Imperial Guard players I knew much more about Yarrick. I had no clue about the background of Ragnar and literally said similar things like the Englishman about him as I don't felt he should be a match for possibly the second greatest villain after Abaddon in the 40K universe.

I know Yarrick a lot more. but id be omitting information if I didn't say I also avoid space marine stuff like the plague.

but most of my friends who like marines like space wolves, and I barely remembered who Ragnar was even with their picking over the lore they had.

im more confused as to why we're seeing a rematch of ghaz and ragnar instead of.. iunno.. the first fight.

Have to go with Yarrick on this one. I know about Ragnar, but especially when it comes to Ghaz, his story is much more compelling. A powerful Space Marine hero defeats a giant alien monster? That's Tuesday. But a regular commissar who beats an alien monster, rips of said monster's arm, makes the monster's arm his own, and becomes seen as something of a deity among the monster's men? That's something truly special.

Having not played Space Wolves or Imperial Guard in 25+ years of playing 40K on and off, I was familiar with both, but Ragnar Blackmane more so. I put neither as the more familiar one - simply because I don't much care about either of them. Could only tell you scant information about either.

However, consider that for grognards...Ragnar Blackmane was "the" Space Wolf lead character in 2nd edition (and as mentioned in another thread, it was heavily suggested he was actually a follow up Leman Russ sculpt - see the original RT one - before they changed the story for Primarchs) and was present in the actual battle report in the Space Wolves Codex for 2nd edition. Yep, they had a battle report in the actual codex.

Now, Yarrick spans the same age, even model-wise (more or less), but Ragnar is definitely a well known old-school model/hero. He just simply wasn't given any presence for the past 10-15-20 years because he hadn't had a new sculpt and GW never likes to promote or put old models front and center if they can avoid it. All of the propaganda gets hurled at anything with a new sculpt.

As much as I'm familiar with both, I know less about Yarrick. I do agree there might be an age/time factor as I don't recall much new fluff or content for Ragnar over the last 4 editions, where as Yarrick has had a few novels as previously mentioned.

Wow. That added third option. Screams out the intent of the thread... and is just insulting to anyone who’d want to click it. Hilarious.

You don't like foaming-at-the-mouth-bias in your polls?

Seeing the third option, I don’t think that’s particularly fair. I’d say I’m equally familiar with Ragnar and Yarrick, I’m also just as familiar with Dante, Calgar, Eldrad, Ghazgull and Abaddon in that as far as I’m aware they’re each the main named character on the tabletop for their respective factions.

ArcaneHorror wrote:Have to go with Yarrick on this one. I know about Ragnar, but especially when it comes to Ghaz, his story is much more compelling. A powerful Space Marine hero defeats a giant alien monster? That's Tuesday. But a regular commissar who beats an alien monster, rips of said monster's arm, makes the monster's arm his own, and becomes seen as something of a deity among the monster's men? That's something truly special.

Right!

hell, Yarrick scares orks. he's like their version of the boogeyman. who do orks(war boss down to grot) check under their beds before "sleeping"????



Chuck Norris & Yarrick.

Regardless of how many books he has about him, Ragnar is a third company captain or other pointlessly wolf-related sobriquet with no prior history with Ghaz, who is the Apex Ork of the setting.

Let's say the new Abaddon model came out with a little story saying that he had been killed by Grotsnikk, only to be revived by the chaos gods. Both are long established characters but it would still seem very strange and dis-empowering for Abaddon.

As far as being well known, Yarrick has been on the cover of a suppliment and been a special character for years, with two excellent models with distinctive features (ork power fist). Ragnar on the other hand is a pretty standard looking space wolf. It would be no surprise to me that yarrick is better knowm

 TheGenuineMetz wrote:
Regardless of how many books he has about him, Ragnar is a third company captain or other pointlessly wolf-related sobriquet with no prior history with Ghaz, who is the Apex Ork of the setting.

Let's say the new Abaddon model came out with a little story saying that he had been killed by Grotsnikk, only to be revived by the chaos gods. Both are long established characters but it would still seem very strange and dis-empowering for Abaddon.

As far as being well known, Yarrick has been on the cover of a suppliment and been a special character for years, with two excellent models with distinctive features (ork power fist). Ragnar on the other hand is a pretty standard looking space wolf. It would be no surprise to me that yarrick is better knowm

The Ragnar model is probably older than some posters on the forum, he's a character with a wealth of background from the late 90's/early 00's who hasn't had much attention over the last decade, hence why he seems less relevant to a lot of people who are newer to the hobby.

 TheGenuineMetz wrote:
Regardless of how many books he has about him, Ragnar is a third company captain or other pointlessly wolf-related sobriquet with no prior history with Ghaz, who is the Apex Ork of the setting.

Let's say the new Abaddon model came out with a little story saying that he had been killed by Grotsnikk, only to be revived by the chaos gods. Both are long established characters but it would still seem very strange and dis-empowering for Abaddon.

As far as being well known, Yarrick has been on the cover of a suppliment and been a special character for years, with two excellent models with distinctive features (ork power fist). Ragnar on the other hand is a pretty standard looking space wolf. It would be no surprise to me that yarrick is better knowm

except Ragnar ISN'T the third company captain, the space wolves don;'t have numbered companies but Blackmane's company is second to Longan Grimnar's Company in terms of size. they're also the posterboy company for space wolves.

BrianDavion wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

You don't need a "both" option though?

If you know about them equally then surely the act of not voting is the same as expressing this opinion?

The OP wants to know who you're more familiar with. If the answer is both, perfectly equally, then don't vote.

Refraining from voting is not proffering an opinion, it's simply not participating in the poll. Limiting the poll to responses from people who are only familiar with one or the other is a bizarre choice, given that both characters are established enough that most people (or at least most who have been in the game for any length of time) will be familiar with both.

and refraining from voting skews the poll.

How, exactly?

The question the OP is asking is; 'which character do you know best of these two options'.

If you know them both perfectly equally (dubious I think) then you don't have no value to add to the poll that specifically asks you to decide which you know best. This shouldn't be difficult to understand.

'Do you like apples or oranges best?"
"Both."
+Di Caprio eye squint meme+

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Added a third option for Both. Didn't think I would need that option but I guess it's fair to say you do in fact feel equal on them. Forgive the long wording but that seemed the most accurate way to sum up that feeling based on what others said

I'm confused... Are you asking if people know who the characters are, or are you asking which they prefer? Because the title says the former, while this seems to be aiming for the latter.

 insaniak wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Added a third option for Both. Didn't think I would need that option but I guess it's fair to say you do in fact feel equal on them. Forgive the long wording but that seemed the most accurate way to sum up that feeling based on what others said

I'm confused... Are you asking if people know who the characters are, or are you asking which they prefer? Because the title says the former, while this seems to be aiming for the latter.

He's asking WHICH CHARACTER ARE YOU MORE FAMILIAR WITH, as the title and OP.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
.
'Do you like apples or oranges best?"
"Both."
+Di Caprio eye squint meme+

So what makes you think that not answering is statistically more useful than giving a factual answer?

 insaniak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
.
'Do you like apples or oranges best?"
"Both."
+Di Caprio eye squint meme+

So what makes you think that not answering is statistically more useful than giving a factual answer?

They are one and the same.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

He's asking WHICH CHARACTER ARE YOU MORE FAMILIAR WITH, as the title and OP.

In his added 'both' option he refers to being indifferent or having no opinion... Which is a reference to preference, rather than familiarity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

They are one and the same.

They're really not.

If you're trying to find it which of two things someone prefers, having them point out that they like them both equally gives you data, even if it's not what you expected. Having them not respond at all tells you nothing. It might mean they have no preference. It might just mean they didn't answer you.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
.
'Do you like apples or oranges best?"
"Both."
+Di Caprio eye squint meme+

So what makes you think that not answering is statistically more useful than giving a factual answer?

They are one and the same.

no they're not, I'm extremely familer with yarrick and ragnar both. I'd not really be able to say I'm more familer with one or the other.

If I know 100% of what there is to know about Yarrick and Ragnar both, would I not be able to say I am very familer with BOTH of them? 40k lore is hardly something by which you can't know plenty of both. that said Rangar features in 7 (or more) novels. The Yarrick Omnibus is from what I can tell one or two novels packaged with some short stories. So suspect there's more raw information about Ragnar out there

 insaniak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

He's asking WHICH CHARACTER ARE YOU MORE FAMILIAR WITH, as the title and OP.

In his added 'both' option he refers to being indifferent or having no opinion... Which is a reference to preference, rather than familiarity.

Read the OP and question...

We don't need 'both' as an option because he isn't asking if you know them or which you like best. He's asking which of the two characters do you know best. He even gives specific guidance in the OP.

It's a binary question. You're trying to give a non binary response.

That's because it's a question that doesn't have a binary answer, so asking if as if it only had two possible responses is incorrect.

This is such an absurd thing to be arguing about.

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
.
'Do you like apples or oranges best?"
"Both."
+Di Caprio eye squint meme+

So what makes you think that not answering is statistically more useful than giving a factual answer?

They are one and the same.

no they're not, I'm extremely familer with yarrick and ragnar both. I'd not really be able to say I'm more familer with one or the other.

Then you can't answer the question. feth me this is hard work

Hence the need for a 'both' response.

It's almost like this was pointed out already...

 insaniak wrote:
Hence the need for a 'both' response.

It's almost like this was pointed out already...

Are you trolling me right now?

The response of 'both' is literally and definitively not an answer to the question posed. Look, an example;
'Was the coin toss heads or tails?'
'Both.'
'Kill me.'