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The necrons had a Dyson sphere, actually. Prior to the rework one of the C'tan, the Outsider, was contained within one at the edge of the galaxy.

Another thing to blame Ward for I guess.

Not that there was much lore on the Outsider to begin with, mind you, other that he was absolutely insane, Tyranids avoided him and his madness was contagious. They could have expanded upon him, but GW decided instead to push the senile robot Egyptian angle because that's apparently more narrative / "your dudes" friendly or something.

 Melissia wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Dyson spheres/swarms don't make a lot of sense when you have FTL travel

Actually that's the only time it makes sense, tbh. The poitn of a dyson sphere is to capture all of the energy output of a star, you don't do that on a habitable system.

Power supply has never been an issue in 40k. The Eldar draw energy directly from the Warp and Space Marines walk around with fusion generators strapped to their backs. And we can assume that there are even more exotic and powerful power supplies available, given some of the Necron and human archeaotech weapons demonstrated. Dyson spheres aren't free energy, after all - it takes a LOT of effort and time to construct one and obviously there are less resource intensive ways of getting that scale of power. Ultimately it's a "Because We Can" project rather than anything built out of actual need.

 John Prins wrote:
Power supply has never been an issue in 40k.

Considering the Imperium designs its tanks to be able to operate even in fuel (aka, portable power) shortages, yes, it is an issue. Same with lasguns. And void shields draw tons of power. Protecting promethium plants is the plot of numerous books, and promethium as fuel for both vehicles and flamer is commonly referenced.

To say nothing of the T'au plasma generators, or the Mechanicus' "Ironstrider Engine" used by its ironstriders and dragoons, or the power packs on the backs of every single suit of power armor, or the Isotropic Fuel Rods famously produced by Necromunda, or the power systems of ships that power Gellar Fields-- losing power to those is catastrophic, indeed. That's without getting in to esoteric power sources, like unsuitable psykers powering the Golden Throne.

And so on and so forth.

Most of the lore of 40k doesn't focus on scarcity of power. But it's still present, if you look beyond the surface and actually read lore beyond the braggadocio of the codices.

 Niiai wrote:

"In physics and chemistry, the law of conservation of energy states that the total energy of an isolated system remains constant; it is said to be conserved over time. This law means that energy can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, it can only be transformed or transferred from one form to another."

The DE has lined their suns with civelization. Weather that energy is just used for heating and lighting it falls within the defenition of a dysons sphere.

The warp and the web way are not necessarily poster children for real space physics. Who knows where else the energy is going

There's also an incentive not to waste the energy from a star as stars are finite resources. Ever watt hour lost is never coming back and when the last stars start to die you'll wish you'd banked that energy for later.

 Canadian 5th wrote:
There's also an incentive not to waste the energy from a star as stars are finite resources. Ever watt hour lost is never coming back and when the last stars start to die you'll wish you'd banked that energy for later.

I can't think of any faction in 40k that is or was both able to make Dyson Spheres and would care about that.

Not to mention that even banking that energy just prolongs the inevitable anyway, if you're talking about stars dying.

 flandarz wrote:
Not to mention that even banking that energy just prolongs the inevitable anyway, if you're talking about stars dying.

By that same token fighting an endless war only prolongs the inevitable anyway, so...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pm713 wrote:

 Canadian 5th wrote:
There's also an incentive not to waste the energy from a star as stars are finite resources. Ever watt hour lost is never coming back and when the last stars start to die you'll wish you'd banked that energy for later.

I can't think of any faction in 40k that is or was both able to make Dyson Spheres and would care about that.

It doesn't need to be a full shell, even a swarm satellites/space habitats would make a significant difference. The bonus is that it's more efficient to build these kinds of habitats than settling a world and if you limit communication between habs it's also easier to contain any heresy by simply destroying that hab and building a new one to replace it.

Well, none of the races in 40k really believe, or want, the war to be endless anyway (except the Orkz, and they're doing it because they love it), so I imagine if they actually thought it was gonna be endless, they'd, um... stop. We got real life examples of people who end their lives because they feel like their pain will never end.

In the minis game At-43 the Therians (who are revealed in the fluff to be humans, and the game is really set 100,000 years in our future) make extensive use of Dyson Spheres of differing sizes. Their insane plan is that if you encase all the important suns of the Milky Way, you can cancel the expansion of the Big Bang, and even move stars to where you want them.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The necrons had a Dyson sphere, actually. Prior to the rework one of the C'tan, the Outsider, was contained within one at the edge of the galaxy.

Another thing to blame Ward for I guess.

Not that there was much lore on the Outsider to begin with, mind you, other that he was absolutely insane, Tyranids avoided him and his madness was contagious. They could have expanded upon him, but GW decided instead to push the senile robot Egyptian angle because that's apparently more narrative / "your dudes" friendly or something.

Necrons have a Dyson Sphere, as I've said already Solemnace is one. It's actively referred to as such in Fabius Bile Clonelord.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The necrons had a Dyson sphere, actually. Prior to the rework one of the C'tan, the Outsider, was contained within one at the edge of the galaxy.

Another thing to blame Ward for I guess.

Not that there was much lore on the Outsider to begin with, mind you, other that he was absolutely insane, Tyranids avoided him and his madness was contagious. They could have expanded upon him, but GW decided instead to push the senile robot Egyptian angle because that's apparently more narrative / "your dudes" friendly or something.

Necrons have a Dyson Sphere, as I've said already Solemnace is one. It's actively referred to as such in Fabius Bile Clonelord.

To be fair it's very well hidden.

Why would there be Dyson spheres ? That the true question. You don't have to put everything that exists in sci-fi every time you write a new setting.
In addition, they can't even work so why even bother

Well, they can probably work for a race that can extinguish suns. Especially if it's a unique thing, like a prison.

 Karhedron wrote:
A Dyson sphere would need to radiate the energy from the central star otherwise its interior would heat up continually and cook the contents. A dyson sphere should radiate in the infra-red part of the spectrum.

Well no, because the whole point of a Dyson sphere is to capture all of the energy from a star and transfer it into other energy stores, whether that be chemical, electrical, nuclear whatever you like really, if you are at that level of technology already.

You all are overlooking small key element here. How are you going to transport all this energy anywhere? You can't exactly transport ''pure'' energy and when you convert said energy to something which later could be re-used, you waste astronomicals amounts of energy by doing so. Furthermore, making dyson sphere is unrealistic for any civilization. First of all, mass. Why people fail to realize that solar panels are not made out of sand you find on a beach? Harvesting ANY material simply doesn't cut it. You need a lot of rare materials from all across the galaxy and at that point, why even bother?

I think a lot of people are making assumptions here. But there are in fact Dyson Spheres one, maybe two, at least, like real Dyson Spheres, not Dyson Rings or even Dyson Swarms. When I'm saying Dyson Spheres it's a catch-all term for Rings, swarms, etc, perhaps I should have said that in my original post, so that's my bad. They're of Necron origin and they aren't just for energy collection but, according to the video I shared, can be lived on as well. Also, the fact that many futurists believe Dyson Spheres an inevitability among interstellar civilisations which in the 41st millennium there are many over the billions of years of the Milky Way's exsistence. Even if it's a stepping stone toward something else bigger.
Also even if people are right that Dyson Spheres are impractical (actual spheres, perhaps) this is 40k, where things are a bit more fun and I think the hugeness and stuff fits in with the 40k myself.

 Ernestas wrote:
You all are overlooking small key element here. How are you going to transport all this energy anywhere?

The Imperium already has fuel cells that can store enough energy to power entire cities or starship drives. The Tau could develop one, and the Necrons, Orks, and Eldar, well, I'm sure htey'd find a way.

And then there's another idea-- why not transport that energy directly to a target, weaponized? An Ork "Sunblasta" that captured a portion of the energy of a star and essentially aimed it at an enemy fleet wouldn't be out of question. Particularly when Orks can teleport things. Eldar could do that through gateways, and Necrons through their own form of technobullshit.

Really, you completely and utterly lack both creativity and knowledge of 40k.

And how this technology is called in W40k? How these power cells are called? There is also no reference to Sunblasta which I could find.

The problem with transportation of energy of a dyson sphere is that one star system is utterly insignificant in grand scheme of things while it requires astronomical resources to establish. No matter if it is true Dyson sphere, ring, swarm or habitat. Somehow people always forget that creating advance technologies you need more than some soil. You need rare minerals, complicated machinery, synthetic elements, etc. To create a single solar panel you need long and boring industrial chain until you can produce a solar panel. While scientists simplify this process so much that their work and thinking becomes no more sophisticated than one playing survival games. Smash two rocks together to create M16 assault rifle...

Then there is another question, how do you convert this energy into something you could transport. You have a lot of electricity. You use said electricity to produce some unstable chemical substance, put that energy into battery or whatever. In the end you have to transport the means through which you will harvest said energy. That involves a lot of ships transporting energy through galaxy to systems. Something tells me that a fleet of ship transporting batteries through the warp for entire planets, hive worlds and forge worlds are an extremely inefficient way of producing energy. Especially when compared to plasma reactors for Imperial high technology or drawing energy from another dimension if we are talking about Chaos high technology. When we have Eldar who draw material from another dimension either.

In the end, creating artificial habitats and structures in space will never as cost efficient as simply settling into livable planet. Any energy needs are amply provided by energy reactor which is a lot more simple than carrying power cells from half across the galaxy. Races in W40k do produce massive structures. The Rock. Craftworlds. Then comes space stations meant for ressupply, repair and production of new ships. Here is a nice video of how massive such structures are which I will attach below. Races in W40k are just generally more pragmatic and conservative in how they spend resources in their universe. It is either massive feth off self sustaining ship to house entire civilization or that remains of it. Or it is industries to support naval ships. If you put an engine on those stations, they become massive ships in their own right due to how massively armored and upgunned they are by default.

Sun powers a warp portal. Warp portal allows remaining.energy to be transported directly to one or more industrial worlds that need the power for furnaces or other kit.

Simples.

 Ernestas wrote:
How these power cells are called?

"Isotropic Fuel Rods".

As for the rest of the crap you posted, again, you lack creativity. 40k is not a hard science setting, nor is it really even a hard-set canon type setting. All of the things I described are well within the technological capability of each of the factions I mentioned. Just because an Ork has not yet been recorded as having invented what I jokingly referred to as a "sunblasta" doesn't mean they couldn't. They developed shield and teleportation technology on par with the Necrons, a faction that is capable of bending the laws of nature to their whims without using the Warp. And unlike the Necrons, the Orks have access to warp-technology. It would hardly be that strange for a crazed Big Mek to create a temporary portal between a star and the battlefield, that even if it existed for just a split second, would cause a massive explosion of heat at the target.

What I'm doing is pointing out that, if GW wanted Dyson Spheres to exist in 40k, they'd barely have to do anything to justify them and their use for any number of factions. They could even make it a battleground for armies to fight on, just for funsies, without ever even describing the actual use of the thing.

 Ernestas wrote:
You all are overlooking small key element here. How are you going to transport all this energy anywhere? You can't exactly transport ''pure'' energy and when you convert said energy to something which later could be re-used, you waste astronomicals amounts of energy by doing so. Furthermore, making dyson sphere is unrealistic for any civilization. First of all, mass. Why people fail to realize that solar panels are not made out of sand you find on a beach? Harvesting ANY material simply doesn't cut it. You need a lot of rare materials from all across the galaxy and at that point, why even bother?

Vanity project.....

"Look, that star's light was in the way of my telescope's view of my favorite galaxy. So I blocked it off." -- random Necron Lord

 Melissia wrote:
"Look, that star's light was in the way of my telescope's view of my favorite galaxy. So I blocked it off." -- random Necron Lord

"The light from that star was the wrong shade of red for my taste so I formed a sphere from the skin of my devoted and now its filtered through their skin to just the right colour - because I am worth it...."- Greater Daemon of Slaanesh

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ernestas wrote:
You all are overlooking small key element here. How are you going to transport all this energy anywhere? You can't exactly transport ''pure'' energy and when you convert said energy to something which later could be re-used, you waste astronomicals amounts of energy by doing so. Furthermore, making dyson sphere is unrealistic for any civilization. First of all, mass. Why people fail to realize that solar panels are not made out of sand you find on a beach? Harvesting ANY material simply doesn't cut it. You need a lot of rare materials from all across the galaxy and at that point, why even bother?

Vanity project.....

Which is exactly in character for Trazyn, who for the nth time has one.

 Melissia wrote:


And then there's another idea-- why not transport that energy directly to a target, weaponized? An Ork "Sunblasta" that captured a portion of the energy of a star and essentially aimed it at an enemy fleet wouldn't be out of question.

AKA the Aeonic Orb. A Necron War Engine from Epic 40k.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Ernestas wrote:
You all are overlooking small key element here. How are you going to transport all this energy anywhere? You can't exactly transport ''pure'' energy and when you convert said energy to something which later could be re-used, you waste astronomicals amounts of energy by doing so. Furthermore, making dyson sphere is unrealistic for any civilization. First of all, mass. Why people fail to realize that solar panels are not made out of sand you find on a beach? Harvesting ANY material simply doesn't cut it. You need a lot of rare materials from all across the galaxy and at that point, why even bother?

Vanity project.....

Yes that's another reason I've already mentioned the Eldar could've made one as a vanity project before the fall too.


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Also if people live in it, the energy collection is for the them and doesn't have to be transported.

 Melissia wrote:
And then there's another idea-- why not transport that energy directly to a target, weaponized?

What would you call it? Starkiller base?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The 40k setting is meant to be vast, meant to include lots of more things than we have been shown up to now. The background is intentionally fragmentary, based on how historical sources have come down to us. It is meant to be engaged with and to draw reasonable conclusions from, true to the spirit of the setting. The fragmentary nature also makes it easier for Games Workshop to introduce new concepts and units to buy, incidentally, and allows them to incorporate science fiction concepts which earlier writers were not aware of.

The setting is first and foremost a playground for the imagination, not a stringent adherence with blinkers on to black-on-white canon writings.

Expect there to be ruined Human Dyson swarms or even spheres from the Dark Age of Technology, and both ruined and functional/under construction ones built by various Xenos. Expect there to have been all manner of havoc involving ringworlds, Dyson spheres, Matrioshka brains and much, much more during the machine revolt of the Men of Iron. 40k is science fiction gone wrong. And the Necrons have clearly built at least two, as already pointed out.

But mostly the setting thrives on space opera planet hopping, which invites for conflict over limited resources and habitable worlds on an easily relatable basis. We are almost always shown the warlike side of things, but that doesn't mean there aren't other sides of the setting.

One of the eldar books describes a craftworld refuelling from a sun, don't remember many details being given but it's 40k, most tech is just hand waved anyway.

To be honest I'd love to see them actually have one of their battlefields be on the outer surface of a dyson sphere, with the armies in question essentially fighting over its control nodes.