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Roberts84 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Necrons aren't threatened by Tyranids at all.

You might want to read up on the 7th-8th edition lore..

Necrons 7th edition.

"The Silent King returns from his self-imposed exile having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void. Realising the threat they pose to the Necrons, he sets about stirring tomb worlds yet to revive. Though he takes pains to conceal his true identity, his influence can be felt throughout the Necron Empire"

Then expanded on in the 8th edition codex:

"In c.744.M41, the Silent King enters the bounds of the galaxy once more. Having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void, he realises that if these horrifying creatures are left unchecked they may consume every living thing in the galaxy before the Necrons can achieve their apotheosis. Returning from his self-imposed exile, the Silent King begins a pilgrimage across the galaxy, stirring tomb worlds yet to revive and speeding the recovery of those already awakened. Though he takes pains to conceal his true identity–working through Triarch Praetorians or unwitting Crypteks and Overlords – the Silent King’s influence is felt from one side of the galaxy to the other. Slowly, he pursues his great work from the shadows, hoping that it is not already too late to atone for his past failures."

All that proves is that Johnny Tightlips is worried they'll kill everything before he does and steal his thunder.

Sigh..

The silent king wishes for his people to return to fleshy from. If that is to happen, he/they need to find the perfect host species. That has yet to happen - and wont happen if the tyranids nom them all.

Its all in the codex. You should give it a read..

Can we stop with the "but my choice has shields against that" pedantic lore arguments? The lore can be changed at the literal drop of a hat by GW or Goto or whomever. For me it has to be Necrons. Apart from the obvious reasons, in the fluff there is no way for the nids to actually kill the necrons. They will just rebuild./reanimate. We know the necrons possess the ability to straitup CRTL ALT DELETE the Nids if they ever got around to it, why is anyones guess. Also, Intellect wins over Instinct every time. Nids are purely instinct driven, which means they can be controlled.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we stop with the "but my choice has shields against that" pedantic lore arguments? The lore can be changed at the literal drop of a hat by GW or Goto or whomever. For me it has to be Necrons. Apart from the obvious reasons, in the fluff there is no way for the nids to actually kill the necrons. They will just rebuild./reanimate. We know the necrons possess the ability to straitup CRTL ALT DELETE the Nids if they ever got around to it, why is anyones guess. Also, Intellect wins over Instinct every time. Nids are purely instinct driven, which means they can be controlled.

Tyranids aren't instinct driven.

Tyranids driven by a joint aspect of their own mind and the unity of all their minds together forming the Hive Mind. Furthermore tyranids are made with specific functions.

A gaunt is pretty smart as a fighter, but pretty dim in all other areas. It's pure function is to fight and that's all the intelligence it needs focused into fighting.

Meanwhile a Zoanthrope or Hive Tyrant is a far smarter creature. Above them Norn queens are even smarter. So the higher life forms (often synapse creatures as well) are much more intelligent even if they are isolated from the influence of the Hive Mind. The Hive Mind itself is clearly far beyond purely instinctive intelligence.

You can bet if the Hive Mind were shut down or disrupted, Norn Queens would start to breed far more intelligent Tyranids in general to cope. The reason they dont' right now is that there's basically no need to make a gaunt smarter and give it knowledge in other areas. It's built and bred for a specific purpose and has only what it needs to fill that niche.




In fact the whole concept of "instinctive" intelligence is up for debate anyway. Whilst we like to think of animals as being instinctive and humans as intelligence; anyone doing any reintroduction program knows full well that many animals require quite a lot of education, experiences and training in order to actually "survive in the wild on their instincts".

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Necrons aren't threatened by Tyranids at all.

You might want to read up on the 7th-8th edition lore..

Necrons 7th edition.

"The Silent King returns from his self-imposed exile having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void. Realising the threat they pose to the Necrons, he sets about stirring tomb worlds yet to revive. Though he takes pains to conceal his true identity, his influence can be felt throughout the Necron Empire"

Then expanded on in the 8th edition codex:

"In c.744.M41, the Silent King enters the bounds of the galaxy once more. Having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void, he realises that if these horrifying creatures are left unchecked they may consume every living thing in the galaxy before the Necrons can achieve their apotheosis. Returning from his self-imposed exile, the Silent King begins a pilgrimage across the galaxy, stirring tomb worlds yet to revive and speeding the recovery of those already awakened. Though he takes pains to conceal his true identity–working through Triarch Praetorians or unwitting Crypteks and Overlords – the Silent King’s influence is felt from one side of the galaxy to the other. Slowly, he pursues his great work from the shadows, hoping that it is not already too late to atone for his past failures."

I don't. In terms of pure survival the Necrons are absolutely fine, Tyranids can't hurt them as a race. The only way Tyranids threaten Necrons is their weird goal of getting bodies back which the Tyranids also can't stop without going out of their way to exterminate Necrons which isn't their thing. Necrons can easily hide away planets and lifeforms and just wait out the Tyranids as they're immortal.

pm713 wrote:

I don't. In terms of pure survival the Necrons are absolutely fine, Tyranids can't hurt them as a race. The only way Tyranids threaten Necrons is their weird goal of getting bodies back which the Tyranids also can't stop without going out of their way to exterminate Necrons which isn't their thing. Necrons can easily hide away planets and lifeforms and just wait out the Tyranids as they're immortal.

..or in other words "lets just ignore what is written in the actual lore, and go with my fanfiction in stead". This seems to the theme of this thread anyway..

Necrons can easily hide away planets and lifeforms and just wait out the Tyranids as they're immortal.

But ok, lets ignore the fluff for a second, and explore your statement.

The necrons are only just starting to wake, and the silent king no longer holds sway over them, and the milkey way galaxy is a rather big place to explore.

Are you saying that collecting every single lifeform in the galaxy, before the tyranids have nommed them all, will be no problem? Does that seriously seem logical to you?

Keep in mind that the tyranids have already wiped out entire races in the milkey way..

There's a few problems with the "disrupt the Hive Mind and they'll start breeding smarter Nids" statement. The first is that a lot of the Nids success comes from the fact they all act as a singular entity. If the Hive Mind is disrupted, then that advantage is gone. The second problem is that intelligence comes with additional energy costs. Our own brain requires 20% of our total energy in a resting state. The last problem is that increasing the sapience of Nids also increasing the risk of abnormal behavior. Like, maybe, a group of Hormagaunts that decide to live a peaceful life of farming.

None of these are things the Hivemind wants, so while it COULD do them, it's most likely strategy would be to destroy such devices at range, or avoid them entirely.

 flandarz wrote:

it's most likely strategy would be to destroy such devices at range, or avoid them entirely.

Or create something that cancels out the effect.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

I don't. In terms of pure survival the Necrons are absolutely fine, Tyranids can't hurt them as a race. The only way Tyranids threaten Necrons is their weird goal of getting bodies back which the Tyranids also can't stop without going out of their way to exterminate Necrons which isn't their thing. Necrons can easily hide away planets and lifeforms and just wait out the Tyranids as they're immortal.

..or in other words "lets just ignore what is written in the actual lore, and go with my fanfiction in stead". This seems to the theme of this thread anyway..

Necrons can easily hide away planets and lifeforms and just wait out the Tyranids as they're immortal.

But ok, lets ignore the fluff for a second, and explore your statement.

The necrons are only just starting to wake, and the silent king no longer holds sway over them, and the milky way galaxy is a rather big place to explore.

Are you saying that collecting every single lifeform in the galaxy, before the tyranids have nommed them all, will be no problem? Does that seriously seem logical to you?

Keep in mind that the tyranids have already wiped out entire races in the milkey way..

It's not really fanfiction when every part of it is in the lore. It's a part of the canon (per the Valedor novel) that if the Tyranids devour everything then what happens is they leave, Chaos runs rampant and starves and then Necrons rule. They have sufficient technology to effectively store large amounts of life forms and materials with stasis, alternate dimensions and just chilling in wild space. They also have very advanced technology and scientists who could easily cultivate biological materials and restart the terraforming of whatever planets they preserved. Time isn't an obstacle when you can sleep for millennia.

That seems moronic to me but you're the one who decided they need all the life forms in the galaxy. But newcron lore is full of stupid things after all.

pm713 wrote:

It's not really fanfiction when every part of it is in the lore.

Yes, it is fanfiction since my point has LITERALLY been printed in every necron codex since 5th edition. This layout of the situation was even featured in the white dwarf og january this year.

That seems moronic to me but you're the one who decided they need all the life forms in the galaxy. But newcron lore is full of stupid things after all.

If finding a host species was an easy task, the silent king probably wouldn't risk the destruction of the necrons race to save the galaxy. But then again, logic clearly isn't one of your strengths..

But that isn't the opposite of what I said at all. None of what that says suggests they can't just store up various materials and life forms and wait it out.

For Necrons making a host species shouldn't be that hard. They know what they used to be (or at least should), they have sufficient knowledge to make artificial bodies and transfer into them and even if they didn't they could just try and nab a Haemonculus and force them to do it.

pm713 wrote:
But that isn't the opposite of what I said at all. None of what that says suggests they can't just store up various materials and life forms and wait it out.

For Necrons making a host species shouldn't be that hard. They know what they used to be (or at least should), they have sufficient knowledge to make artificial bodies and transfer into them and even if they didn't they could just try and nab a Haemonculus and force them to do it.

If it was that simple, the silent king probably wouldent go through the bother of reuniting the entire necron race to fight the tyranids..

It's important to remember that there's a lot of "give and take" in Nid physiology. It's why they have such a wide variety of creatures. Termagaunts may not be as powerful as Tyrants, but they require far less resources to create, for example. Even different Hive Fleets have different strengths and weaknesses.

So, I imagine that adapting to overcome any "psychic interference" would come at some kind of cost. Whether it would be worth the cost would probably depend on how frequently the Hive Mind comes across that obstacle.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
But that isn't the opposite of what I said at all. None of what that says suggests they can't just store up various materials and life forms and wait it out.

For Necrons making a host species shouldn't be that hard. They know what they used to be (or at least should), they have sufficient knowledge to make artificial bodies and transfer into them and even if they didn't they could just try and nab a Haemonculus and force them to do it.

If it was that simple, the silent king probably wouldent go through the bother of reuniting the entire necron race to fight the tyranids..

There's no reason that it isn't that simple. Going by the internal logic of 40k it makes sense. The only reason not to do it is because it's a boring story for GW to write.

pm713 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
But that isn't the opposite of what I said at all. None of what that says suggests they can't just store up various materials and life forms and wait it out.

For Necrons making a host species shouldn't be that hard. They know what they used to be (or at least should), they have sufficient knowledge to make artificial bodies and transfer into them and even if they didn't they could just try and nab a Haemonculus and force them to do it.

If it was that simple, the silent king probably wouldent go through the bother of reuniting the entire necron race to fight the tyranids..

There's no reason that it isn't that simple.

Other than the storyline printed in 3 successive necron codexes - and your incredible arrogance ofc.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
But that isn't the opposite of what I said at all. None of what that says suggests they can't just store up various materials and life forms and wait it out.

For Necrons making a host species shouldn't be that hard. They know what they used to be (or at least should), they have sufficient knowledge to make artificial bodies and transfer into them and even if they didn't they could just try and nab a Haemonculus and force them to do it.

If it was that simple, the silent king probably wouldent go through the bother of reuniting the entire necron race to fight the tyranids..

There's no reason that it isn't that simple.

Other than the storyline printed in 3 successive necron codexes - and your incredible arrogance ofc.

None of that storyline so much as hints that my suggestion wouldn't work. I'm not the one claiming someone is wrong because I say so.

pm713 wrote:

None of that storyline so much as hints that my suggestion wouldn't work.

Other than the fact that reuniting the entire necron race to fight the tyranids doesn't make a lick of sense if your fan theories held true.

I'm not the one claiming someone is wrong because I say so.

You are, to the point where I am unsure if your are trolling or simply just that arrogant.

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:

None of that storyline so much as hints that my suggestion wouldn't work.

Other than the fact that reuniting the entire necron race to fight the tyranids doesn't make a lick of sense if your fan theories held true.

I'm not the one claiming someone is wrong because I say so.

You are, to the point where I am unsure if your are trolling or simply just that arrogant.

It does. They can preserve enough materials to regain physical forms but if they allowed Tyranids to devour everything else that would drastically reduce the diversity of the galaxy and therefore their quality of life. They can guarantee having a biological life and their goal can't be stopped by the Tyranids in that sense but it's still in their interests to preserve the galaxy in general.

I'm not though. I've explained the reasoning behind what I've said whereas you just continue to insist I can't possibly have a point, I must be wrong and just insult me. So if you aren't going to start explaining WHY you think parts of the lore stop me having a valid point I'm going to just stop responding to you.

pm713 wrote:
So if you aren't going to start explaining WHY you think parts of the lore stop me having a valid point I'm going to just stop responding to you.

I'm not taking the bait again.. You have nice day.

 Andersp90 wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Necrons aren't threatened by Tyranids at all.

You might want to read up on the 7th-8th edition lore..

Necrons 7th edition.

"The Silent King returns from his self-imposed exile having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void. Realising the threat they pose to the Necrons, he sets about stirring tomb worlds yet to revive. Though he takes pains to conceal his true identity, his influence can be felt throughout the Necron Empire"

Then expanded on in the 8th edition codex:

"In c.744.M41, the Silent King enters the bounds of the galaxy once more. Having encountered the Tyranids in the intergalactic void, he realises that if these horrifying creatures are left unchecked they may consume every living thing in the galaxy before the Necrons can achieve their apotheosis. Returning from his self-imposed exile, the Silent King begins a pilgrimage across the galaxy, stirring tomb worlds yet to revive and speeding the recovery of those already awakened. Though he takes pains to conceal his true identity–working through Triarch Praetorians or unwitting Crypteks and Overlords – the Silent King’s influence is felt from one side of the galaxy to the other. Slowly, he pursues his great work from the shadows, hoping that it is not already too late to atone for his past failures."

All that proves is that Johnny Tightlips is worried they'll kill everything before he does and steal his thunder.

Sigh..

The silent king wishes for his people to return to fleshy from. If that is to happen, he/they need to find the perfect host species. That has yet to happen - and wont happen if the tyranids nom them all.

Its all in the codex. You should give it a read..

Soooooooooo how is it that Tyranids would win then? All you're saying is, end goal wise, the Silent King loses. Imotekh probably don't care, Trazyn probably just wants to get some more trophies, and Zandrekh does...whatever he does.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Soooooooooo how is it that Tyranids would win then?

I never said anyone would win or lose.

Roberts84 stated that the tyranids are not a threat to the necrons, which is untrue. If the silent king does not manage to stop them, the necrons will be trapped in their metal bodies for eternity, and every necron tomb world with life on it will be destroyed (I would consider that a threat). That much we know.

Could the necrons end up being wiped out as a species? Mabye. As it stands now, the tyranids are ignoring tomb worlds without any life on them. But that could change.

Codex tyranids 8th edition:



So, if the necrons start a war with the tyranids, the hive mind might respond by seeking out the necron tomb worlds and destory them to eliminate the threat/competition.

Pfft, Matt Ward had his fiction about the Necrons teaming up with Space Marines i forget which chapter to fight against the nids.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Pfft, Matt Ward had his fiction about the Necrons teaming up with Space Marines i forget which chapter to fight against the nids.

As panned as that was at the time, Necrons are now pretty much shown to be quite intelligent and "alive" for undead ghosts in machines. At least for the upper ranks in charge. Marines have also been shown to take xenos allies in the past - both Eldar and Orks have fought alongside Imperial forces (often against Tyranids). So its not "that bad" however it was hated at the time partly because it was wrapped up in GW making Necrons more than just a whole army of mindless Terminators (the film).

 Andersp90 wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:


The necrons have weapons that can instantly atomize planets. They can press a buton on a console and cause suns to supernova. If the Necrons were able to be unified under the silent king, it would be GG for the universe.

That is true.

Yet, it is still stated in the lore that the silent king has to reunite the necron race if they are to stand a chance of preventing the galay from being nommed. He might even be too late (stated by the man himself)

So here's a question:

Let's say all biomatter is stripped from the galaxy.

Why would the necrons...care?

THEY'RE not biomatter. all that would happen is the eldar, orks, humans, tau, and all other races in the way of the necron domination of the galaxy would be gone. They'd just have a perfectly nice, clean, non-organic slate to work with.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we stop with the "but my choice has shields against that" pedantic lore arguments? The lore can be changed at the literal drop of a hat by GW or Goto or whomever. For me it has to be Necrons. Apart from the obvious reasons, in the fluff there is no way for the nids to actually kill the necrons. They will just rebuild./reanimate. We know the necrons possess the ability to straitup CRTL ALT DELETE the Nids if they ever got around to it, why is anyones guess. Also, Intellect wins over Instinct every time. Nids are purely instinct driven, which means they can be controlled.

Didn't you just provided lore arguments while at the same time saying that lore can be ignored? What if the Tyranids develop a type of minuscule spore that corrodes and "bug" every single Necron soul engram thereby rendering them all lifeless and impossible to repair? imagine, a spore spwed by major Tyranid organism and especially by venomthrope and their cousins. Imagine a Doom of Malantai type of creature that simply cuts them off of one another and them from their body by throwing interference brain waves, etc. Imagine the Tyranid eat a Tomb World and gain access to all of the Necron tech by devouring the engrams of its cryptek (they have devoured for sure several dozens Tomb World) and they create a Tyranid version of their super weapon. Now, Tyranid can press CTRL ALT DELETE on all Necron Tomb Wolrd. If you throw the lore by the window and only go by what's possible or logical, you can get very safely to my scenario.

If I remember correctly, the Silent King spent some time outside the galaxy, yes? So, his fear of the Tyranids could have two different sources. 1) he's seen that the Tyranids can and will devour inorganic material as well. 2) all that isolation and darkness drove him insane and he's "overreacting" to them.

 flandarz wrote:
If I remember correctly, the Silent King spent some time outside the galaxy, yes? So, his fear of the Tyranids could have two different sources. 1) he's seen that the Tyranids can and will devour inorganic material as well. 2) all that isolation and darkness drove him insane and he's "overreacting" to them.

You need to read through the thread before posting. This has already been answered. Twice.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Andersp90 wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:


The necrons have weapons that can instantly atomize planets. They can press a buton on a console and cause suns to supernova. If the Necrons were able to be unified under the silent king, it would be GG for the universe.

That is true.

Yet, it is still stated in the lore that the silent king has to reunite the necron race if they are to stand a chance of preventing the galay from being nommed. He might even be too late (stated by the man himself)

So here's a question:

Let's say all biomatter is stripped from the galaxy.

Why would the necrons...care?

THEY'RE not biomatter. all that would happen is the eldar, orks, humans, tau, and all other races in the way of the necron domination of the galaxy would be gone. They'd just have a perfectly nice, clean, non-organic slate to work with.

Keep reading through the thread and you will get your answer.

the_scotsman wrote:
Let's say all biomatter is stripped from the galaxy.

Why would the necrons...care?

Well, Ican see one reason: the Necrons are dying. They are slowly being consumed by the plague that produces Flayed Ones and the Destroyer virus. They are losing their minds or what's left of it. Without biotransferance, the Necrons are doomed to an inevitable and long decent into madness and death. The second is that organic Necrons will need ecosystems to live in. So even if they secretly stored biomatter that the Hive Mind couldn't detect, They no longer have access to planets to populate. The Necrons are very numerous. They will need hundreds of livable planets to live on and probably thousands more to produce their tech. Tyranids also strip worlds of precious mineral resources and elements. What if they are interested in mineral resources essential to the Necrons tech or even artificial bodies?

 Andersp90 wrote:

 flandarz wrote:
The Orkz had some sort of device that interfered with the Hive Mind. If I remember correctly, the Mechanicus has it now and is trying to make it work. So I'd say the Necrons could probably figure out something similar.

I bet you the hive mind will figure out a counter.

From "the devastation of baal".

"Every machine and psychic ability the Imperium had geared towards detection, the lictor could evade. The hive mind had consumed far more advanced races than mankind. Infiltrating Baal was child’s play. There was no need for it to employ a fraction of its considerable talents."

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Necrons, really. Even if Tyranids 'won' and stripped the galaxy of life then moved on the Necrons would still be there. Heck some of them probably wouldn't even wake up!

The necrons will be trapped in their metal bodies for eternity if the tyranids pick the galaxy clean of life.

Typical Nids fan response. Nah! They will just evolve and become stronger than everything in the universe ever and not even Batman can beat them!

LOL. Yeah. OK Timmy.

What Happens when the Nids hit the eye of Terror? What--shadow on the Warp?

Roberts84 wrote:


Typical Nids fan response. Nah! They will just evolve and become stronger than everything in the universe ever and not even Batman can beat them!

LOL. Yeah. OK Timmy.

What Happens when the Nids hit the eye of Terror? What--shadow on the Warp?

Are you having a stroke?