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Herbington wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
As there is no practical way to get a physical copy of White Dwarf unless I order direct from GW, I was going to get a digital copy.

Physical copy: US$9.00
Digital copy: US$9.99

The digital copy of White Dwarf costs more than then physical copy! In what world does that make any sense at all?!?! Do I get more content in the digital copy? Is there an index with links? Can I click on pictures and it expands into a 360° model? I can't believe GW charges more for the digital version. That's just INSANE.

In the UK, physical books and magazines are VAT exempt, digital versions are not (until December). Maybe it's something to do with that?

shouldn't be an issue given he's an American, GW shouldn't be adding VAT to sales outside the UK.

You still need to pay for the design, layout, photographers, staff, etc. Only a part of the cost of books/publications is the dead trees and ink.

With digital stull you don’t have the bulk shipping costs, but you do have server space, bandwidth, etc. They still need to pay something to get it to you.

Hellebore wrote:
Harlequin rules seem to have come out pretty good.

It's nice to see some abilities to make the solitaire the scary monster he's supposed to be, but also some troupe master rules that push it closer to a solitaire as well.

Darkness' Bite seems nice for guaranteed MW so long as the Troupe Master can keep surviving. Maybe try to make the Troupe Master more survivable with Veil of Tears relic and grind down otherwise tough enemies through the auto MW?

I see thematic potential for Harlequin warlord to go extreme "grimdark" by choosing Darkness' Bite along with Player of the Dark warlord trait.

It's a pity there was no fluff blurb to go with these Pivotal Role abilities. Somehow I can picture the Troupe Master with Darkness' Bite doing the whole "Omae wa mou shindeiru" meme.

BrianDavion wrote:

Herbington wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
As there is no practical way to get a physical copy of White Dwarf unless I order direct from GW, I was going to get a digital copy.

Physical copy: US$9.00
Digital copy: US$9.99

The digital copy of White Dwarf costs more than then physical copy! In what world does that make any sense at all?!?! Do I get more content in the digital copy? Is there an index with links? Can I click on pictures and it expands into a 360° model? I can't believe GW charges more for the digital version. That's just INSANE.

In the UK, physical books and magazines are VAT exempt, digital versions are not (until December). Maybe it's something to do with that?

shouldn't be an issue given he's an American, GW shouldn't be adding VAT to sales outside the UK.

Yes, but GW's exchange rates are always based on UK retail price which includes VAT.

Cheers, Dudeface, for the preview of the Harlequin rules. So glad I picked them as a "welcome back to the hobby" faction, as I wasn't sure at first.

I'll be kitbashing a Death Jester from leftover pieces from Eldar Guardians and Void Weaver kits, so this has come a good time!

Does the WD PA article come with a bit of background fluff for the Harle's part in the whole PA story arc, or is it just the rules?

SamusDrake wrote:
Cheers, Dudeface, for the preview of the Harlequin rules. So glad I picked them as a "welcome back to the hobby" faction, as I wasn't sure at first.

I'll be kitbashing a Death Jester from leftover pieces from Eldar Guardians and Void Weaver kits, so this has come a good time!

Does the WD PA article come with a bit of background fluff for the Harle's part in the whole PA story arc, or is it just the rules?

There isn't any more space for fluff in the WD, but there is PA fluff for Harlies scattered in Phoenix Rising.

so harlies get more in WD then CWE + DE + Ynnari got in PA book. GW trollin us hard..

This is wishful thinking, but it would be great if they had a new Death Jester variant model in the next preview. Its the only Harlequin model that gets repetitive beyond two and they then look like background extras from Hitchcock's The Birds!

 bullyboy wrote:


There isn't any more space for fluff in the WD, but there is PA fluff for Harlies scattered in Phoenix Rising.

Cheers for that. Its not a negative by any means as the rules are the most important thing, but it would have been the icing on the cake. At six pages...maybe they could have squeezed the rules into Phoenix Rising, which would have made it the essential companion for all Aeldari players.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:
so harlies get more in WD then CWE + DE + Ynnari got in PA book. GW trollin us hard..

Afterall....Harlequins, in the end...always get the last laugh!

Boom-boom!

Actually, I can see it now..."the Masque of the Basil Brush!"

 Argive wrote:
so harlies get more in WD then CWE + DE + Ynnari got in PA book. GW trollin us hard..

To be fair they needed the most help.

SamusDrake wrote:
This is wishful thinking, but it would be great if they had a new Death Jester variant model in the next preview. Its the only Harlequin model that gets repetitive beyond two and they then look like background extras from Hitchcock's The Birds!

Go on ebay and get the old metal one. All the 2nd ed era death jester models are gold - one of them has a big goofy gangster coat and two pistols, and one of them has the ammo for his shieker in a big doofy skull on his back.

the_scotsman wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
This is wishful thinking, but it would be great if they had a new Death Jester variant model in the next preview. Its the only Harlequin model that gets repetitive beyond two and they then look like background extras from Hitchcock's The Birds!

Go on ebay and get the old metal one. All the 2nd ed era death jester models are gold - one of them has a big goofy gangster coat and two pistols, and one of them has the ammo for his shieker in a big doofy skull on his back.

Also sometimes even minor converting can make a model look wildly different. I don't know how viable it is for a Death Jester, but I had done it with Cairn Wraiths by simply trimming a bit of the connecting point on the arms that poked out from under their shrouds.

Serious question--is there an alternate weapon option for a Death Jester? Cause I'd be down for another model if there is.

the_scotsman wrote:


Go on ebay and get the old metal one. All the 2nd ed era death jester models are gold - one of them has a big goofy gangster coat and two pistols, and one of them has the ammo for his shieker in a big doofy skull on his back.

Ah yeah, that is definitely the way to go with the DJs. I do remember the ye'olde Jesters and the previous metal model is absolute champion.

Even still, I do hope they do an alternative DJ like they had the Magus for the GSC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Serious question--is there an alternate weapon option for a Death Jester? Cause I'd be down for another model if there is.

Sadly there is not, and was slightly disappointed that Cegcorach's Lament is not an alternative but a replacement for the Shrieker cannon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Also sometimes even minor converting can make a model look wildly different. I don't know how viable it is for a Death Jester, but I had done it with Cairn Wraiths by simply trimming a bit of the connecting point on the arms that poked out from under their shrouds.

Its the kneeling pose it has on the debris that makes it a challenge to give it a wildly different look. Which is a shame because it looks amazing for a solitary DJ.

For the time being I'll be kitbashing between the Troupe, Star Weaver and Craftworld Guardian kits for an alternative DJ, using the 3rd Edition Dark Reaper Exarch as a reference. Can't wait to get stuck into that one!

 Argive wrote:
so harlies get more in WD then CWE + DE + Ynnari got in PA book. GW trollin us hard..

I certainly wouldn't lump CWE in that group. Sure, they needed new WTs and relics since the one in the book are crap, but custom craftworlds are used extensively, and some of the exarch powers are improvements and seeing use.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
They do stop paper copies though.
And they don't sell it in FLGS.
And you can't find the old copies here:
https://www.games-workshop.com/fr-FR/Warhammer-40-000?N=2094752787+2831895426&Nr=AND(sku.siteId%3AFR_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Afr_FR_gw)&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[product.startDate+%3C%3D+1589224560000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1589224560000]&view=all
So maybe you can find them somewhere. But it definitely won't be as easily available as if it had been in a PA book. Or in a free pdf update.

Up until now, all 8th edition WD releases have eventually been released as PDF, as part of a campaign book, in the corresponding codex or in a campaign book.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Argive wrote:
so harlies get more in WD then CWE + DE + Ynnari got in PA book. GW trollin us hard..

I certainly wouldn't lump CWE in that group. Sure, they needed new WTs and relics since the one in the book are crap, but custom craftworlds are used extensively, and some of the exarch powers are improvements and seeing use.

Regarding Exarch powers, in pretty much all of the cases, 4 are pointless, one is ok... But none of them do abything with the inherent problems of aspect warriors being T3 1W infantry in the game where things like primaris marines are a the new base line. Same with traits, pretty everything apart from expert Crafters /masterful shots/concealment is wasted paper. Also Did the CHE really need a buff followed by a price hike?

My point was that ynnari, DE and 90% of the CWE is pointless.
Im very greatful for expert crafters /masters of concealment as that's freed us from Guide + doom as being the auto-take your army needs to rely and build around on. So Certainly not complaining there.

From what ive seen all of the quin stuff has utility and can be built on without hamstringing your entire army. I've been considering souping in quins as a contingent. And harlequins are a minor supplement level army I'm sorry to say (compared to CWE/DE). There only so many units they can get before it stops making sense. Bottom line is they got more in 4 pages of WD rules then a lot of factions got in an entire hard back book...

It seems some of the writers don't play the game or understand how the army they write rules for works against other armies. Not all codexes are created equal this we know. And not all PA stuff has been created equal either.

All im saying is If I was a quin player id be happy i only have to pay £5 for my PA update when looking at what others have gotten in a £20 hardback.

I'm certainly looking to soup in some quins now

I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

I run wraithseer ynnari the relics and traits are great. Miles above CWE. I run triple wraithlords exclusively with expert crafters/masters of concealment and likewise if I run wraiths id go for either alitoic so I can ds a spirit seer with a relic and a -1 or ynnari wraithblades..

I think for shrunken, you'd just go Biel-tan above custom... Because re-roll 1s is just too good along with get acess to a free guide warlord trait which is actually useful warlord trait. plus can then use court of the young king for spears ot banshees.

I find you have to get really gamey and mix CWE traits and have 3 different detachments as no single trait works for all outside of maybe alitoic or bieltan..

Liking the harley rules. I think its the first WD mag I will actually buy.
I need to find a cheap codex for quins and DE.

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Oh boy have they. I don't think they've been competitive since 2nd ed, when most of them had spare wargear slots to load up with buffs like displacer fields and combat drugs. Plus they had 3 exarch powers, oh the days when karandras and maugan were T6.

The current lack of invulnerable save is a relic of 4th ed where they got immunity to instant death so you had to whittle them down, which wasn't a bad way to represent the energy infused suit of armour they are (like the new eltharion). But now there's no rule to reflect that, they're just BAD. at least previously with high initiative their defence was to strike first and kill, or use eternal warrior to survive return attacks and kill on the next round...

Now they're just BAD space marine captains they inexplicably cost more than marine captains...

Hellebore wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Oh boy have they. I don't think they've been competitive since 2nd ed, when most of them had spare wargear slots to load up with buffs like displacer fields and combat drugs. Plus they had 3 exarch powers, oh the days when karandras and maugan were T6.

The current lack of invulnerable save is a relic of 4th ed where they got immunity to instant death so you had to whittle them down, which wasn't a bad way to represent the energy infused suit of armour they are (like the new eltharion). But now there's no rule to reflect that, they're just BAD. at least previously with high initiative their defence was to strike first and kill, or use eternal warrior to survive return attacks and kill on the next round...

Now they're just BAD space marine captains they inexplicably cost more than marine captains...

That's because we are playing with outdated rules didn't you know?

Just read the Warcom article? where Jain Zar fails her Invulnerable saves

Hellebore wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Oh boy have they. I don't think they've been competitive since 2nd ed, when most of them had spare wargear slots to load up with buffs like displacer fields and combat drugs. Plus they had 3 exarch powers, oh the days when karandras and maugan were T6.

The current lack of invulnerable save is a relic of 4th ed where they got immunity to instant death so you had to whittle them down, which wasn't a bad way to represent the energy infused suit of armour they are (like the new eltharion). But now there's no rule to reflect that, they're just BAD. at least previously with high initiative their defence was to strike first and kill, or use eternal warrior to survive return attacks and kill on the next round...

Now they're just BAD space marine captains they inexplicably cost more than marine captains...

They should have that rule that Ghaz has where you can only inflict so much damage on them at a time.
Maybe per turn instead of per phase, as I don't think Phoenix Lords has as many wounds as Ghaz. That should make them a little more durable.

Hellebore wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Oh boy have they. I don't think they've been competitive since 2nd ed, when most of them had spare wargear slots to load up with buffs like displacer fields and combat drugs. Plus they had 3 exarch powers, oh the days when karandras and maugan were T6.

The current lack of invulnerable save is a relic of 4th ed where they got immunity to instant death so you had to whittle them down, which wasn't a bad way to represent the energy infused suit of armour they are (like the new eltharion). But now there's no rule to reflect that, they're just BAD. at least previously with high initiative their defence was to strike first and kill, or use eternal warrior to survive return attacks and kill on the next round...

Now they're just BAD space marine captains they inexplicably cost more than marine captains...

I guess you boys slept through 7th edition eh? Harley Star ring a bell? Beast Packs? They aren't great in 8th sure, but they aren't exactly suffering by being in one of the strongest factions, so it isn't that bad playing with one.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Oh boy have they. I don't think they've been competitive since 2nd ed, when most of them had spare wargear slots to load up with buffs like displacer fields and combat drugs. Plus they had 3 exarch powers, oh the days when karandras and maugan were T6.

The current lack of invulnerable save is a relic of 4th ed where they got immunity to instant death so you had to whittle them down, which wasn't a bad way to represent the energy infused suit of armour they are (like the new eltharion). But now there's no rule to reflect that, they're just BAD. at least previously with high initiative their defence was to strike first and kill, or use eternal warrior to survive return attacks and kill on the next round...

Now they're just BAD space marine captains they inexplicably cost more than marine captains...

They should have that rule that Ghaz has where you can only inflict so much damage on them at a time.
Maybe per turn instead of per phase, as I don't think Phoenix Lords has as many wounds as Ghaz. That should make them a little more durable.

At least the Harlequins rules suggest they can do good Eldar material. I think the roles are great ways to add potency to a fairly bland list.

The harlequin characters look to be quite good now. The strategem to add a role means you can have a Solitaire with -1 to hit, 3++ and. And blitz which puts it closer to what it should be.


To be honest, until they redo aspects and exarchs to what they should be, Phoenix lords are going to keep sucking. When an exarch is still worse than a primaris sergeant you've got crappy design. Lack of initiative this edition, insistence on keeping exarchs as squad leaders rather than the independent characters they used to be that were one man ninja armies, will keep aspects mediocre.

Looking back at the 2nd Ed, the Eldar had more t6 special characters than all the marine codices combined - they had 3, Mangan, karandras and eldrad while the only t6 marine was mephiston...

 Hellebore wrote:

The harlequin characters look to be quite good now. The strategem to add a role means you can have a Solitaire with -1 to hit, 3++ and. And blitz which puts it closer to what it should be.

Can also throw on Suit of Hidden Knives, which AFAIK triggers more easily with the -1 to hit from Unnatural Acrobatics. Not only is the Solitaire twisting around, you walk right into a blade that flicks out from his suit.

Iracundus wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

The harlequin characters look to be quite good now. The strategem to add a role means you can have a Solitaire with -1 to hit, 3++ and. And blitz which puts it closer to what it should be.

Can also throw on Suit of Hidden Knives, which AFAIK triggers more easily with the -1 to hit from Unnatural Acrobatics. Not only is the Solitaire twisting around, you walk right into a blade that flicks out from his suit.

Yeah I do really like that piece of wargear - like lilith's hair barbs. nothing says ninja fighing grace like a weaponised cummerbund.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Oh boy have they. I don't think they've been competitive since 2nd ed, when most of them had spare wargear slots to load up with buffs like displacer fields and combat drugs. Plus they had 3 exarch powers, oh the days when karandras and maugan were T6.

The current lack of invulnerable save is a relic of 4th ed where they got immunity to instant death so you had to whittle them down, which wasn't a bad way to represent the energy infused suit of armour they are (like the new eltharion). But now there's no rule to reflect that, they're just BAD. at least previously with high initiative their defence was to strike first and kill, or use eternal warrior to survive return attacks and kill on the next round...

Now they're just BAD space marine captains they inexplicably cost more than marine captains...

I guess you boys slept through 7th edition eh? Harley Star ring a bell? Beast Packs? They aren't great in 8th sure, but they aren't exactly suffering by being in one of the strongest factions, so it isn't that bad playing with one.

You mean the lists I didn't take seriously since they weren't good? Wow you got me there.

No they weren't good there.

Nice pivot, those lists were good enough to run top of several majors. Funny how your opinion matters more when it's convenient to your arguments.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

Hellebore wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
I still think you're giving CWE a low ball assessment. Wraith host armies much prefer the custom traits, shuriken heavy armies also. It's not all Night Spinners/CHE with Expert Crafters.
I do agree that Aspects need a lot more to compete in the new scene, which is surprising that they didn't address it when releasing plastic banshees/Jain Zar. How they feel that jain Zar should have 4 attacks is beyond me, that's basically a Primaris Sgt with shock assault.
Ynnari is OK...they got their full rules in the book....don't need to hunt down a WD now.
Drukhari is the only real loser in the book tbh.

All the Phoenix Lords have overall been lacking power for a long time.

Oh boy have they. I don't think they've been competitive since 2nd ed, when most of them had spare wargear slots to load up with buffs like displacer fields and combat drugs. Plus they had 3 exarch powers, oh the days when karandras and maugan were T6.

The current lack of invulnerable save is a relic of 4th ed where they got immunity to instant death so you had to whittle them down, which wasn't a bad way to represent the energy infused suit of armour they are (like the new eltharion). But now there's no rule to reflect that, they're just BAD. at least previously with high initiative their defence was to strike first and kill, or use eternal warrior to survive return attacks and kill on the next round...

Now they're just BAD space marine captains they inexplicably cost more than marine captains...

That's because we are playing with outdated rules didn't you know?

Just read the Warcom article? where Jain Zar fails her Invulnerable saves

That's hilarious.....yeah, that wonderful invuln save. Maybe GW staff get to play off a "secret menu" statsheet for their toys, it's in their benefits package.

Honestly if you read those matches I'd be surprised if they are actually playing at all. They are all pretty vague and give no parameters either. Who charges, starting distance, warlord traits, psychic powers, army doctrines etc. are all left in the air to the reader.

I'm very confident nobody checked those for making sense game wise or in terms of proof reading.